The biggest blunder of the game IMO

[gobills1212]

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

Missing the kick would put the Giants in good field position w/ a time out to work with and ample time to dink & dunk their way down to the red zone.

 

If McDermott would’ve punted, it would’ve placed the Giants around the 10 (who haven’t scored a TD in multiple games) and made them drive 90 yards! This decision would’ve eliminated all those Trent Edwards check downs and forced Tyrod to make multiple big plays. I’m sure the analytics would back this up all day. 
 

I know it’s irrelevant now, but the Bills are darn lucky to have escaped this game w/ a win. 

Dont be that guy. Had this have worked, no one ever wld have questioned it. You either want your team to be agressive or you dont. The bad look is complaining abt it after the fact. Id hope 80% of coaches make that call. I'm also happy ours is in the majority of that 80%

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

Missing the kick would put the Giants in good field position w/ a time out to work with and ample time to dink & dunk their way down to the red zone.

 

If McDermott would’ve punted, it would’ve placed the Giants around the 10 (who haven’t scored a TD in multiple games) and made them drive 90 yards! This decision would’ve eliminated all those Trent Edwards check downs and forced Tyrod to make multiple big plays. I’m sure the analytics would back this up all day. 
 

I know it’s irrelevant now, but the Bills are darn lucky to have escaped this game w/ a win. 

The third down decision was the blunder.   If you know you are willing to kick the field goal third down should be a running play. Make the giants burn their last time out and maybe pick up a couple of yards 

[BigPappy]

6 hours ago, buffalo2218 said:

There's no way Taron didn't interfere with Waller on that last pass. Had his back turned to the QB the whole time and hooked his left arm to prevent making the catch

Doesn't matter, he didn't hook his arm in until the ball arrived to prevent Waller from getting the other arm up, plus as the ball arrived Taron took his other arm and knocked the ball free. It was a totally clean play. 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

Missing the kick would put the Giants in good field position w/ a time out to work with and ample time to dink & dunk their way down to the red zone.

 

If McDermott would’ve punted, it would’ve placed the Giants around the 10 (who haven’t scored a TD in multiple games) and made them drive 90 yards! This decision would’ve eliminated all those Trent Edwards check downs and forced Tyrod to make multiple big plays. I’m sure the analytics would back this up all day. 
 

I know it’s irrelevant now, but the Bills are darn lucky to have escaped this game w/ a win. 

 

 

With hindsight, I think you're right.

 

But Bass is so damn good, so consistently, that I had no problem at the time. So I can't blame them.

[Blackbeard]

Missing two long kicks is not Indicative that Bass not reliable or “shaky”  
 

total offensive failure.  Shouldn’t have to leave it to kicker anyway 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Blackbeard

[Matt_In_NH]

So it was not shotgun draw from the half yard line?

[buffalo2218]

56 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

Doesn't matter, he didn't hook his arm in until the ball arrived to prevent Waller from getting the other arm up, plus as the ball arrived Taron took his other arm and knocked the ball free. It was a totally clean play. 

LMAO, clean you say? Um no, not even close to clean. Johnson was clearly holding his jersey on his break and prevented Waller from getting his arm up. It's especially PI if it was as the ball arrived. 10 times out of 10, it's PI if it's someone like Mahomes instead of Taylor throwing the ball

Edited October 16, 2023 by buffalo2218

[Utah John]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

This isn’t correct imo.  We routinely pound inferior teams. That’s why our win margin is the best in football by the widest of margins since 2020.  
 

We put up stinkers from time to time.  Like most teams

Sure, most of the time we do win big.  But sometimes we get caught up in the moment and play down to the other team's level.  I don't know why.  

[BillsFan130]

Amen.

 

Tyrod is not going 90 yards in 1:30..

 

Was an awful decision by MCD. Even if you hit the FG, it’s still a one score game

[T master]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

Missing the kick would put the Giants in good field position w/ a time out to work with and ample time to dink & dunk their way down to the red zone.

 

If McDermott would’ve punted, it would’ve placed the Giants around the 10 (who haven’t scored a TD in multiple games) and made them drive 90 yards! This decision would’ve eliminated all those Trent Edwards check downs and forced Tyrod to make multiple big plays. I’m sure the analytics would back this up all day. 
 

I know it’s irrelevant now, but the Bills are darn lucky to have escaped this game w/ a win. 

 

Agree it is irrelevant now, especially given T Bass & his history ! The guy is usually & was up until last night MONEY . I guess every one can have a bad night & Bass had his last night of all nights .

 

If he would have hit both of those kicks it wouldn't have come down to the nail biter that it was so to blame McD for making what you consider the wrong call when you have a kicker as i said that more likely than not can & has put points in the bank is a secondary opinion .

 

I believe that his analytics team would say the same in that situation too .

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Sure, most of the time we do win big.  But sometimes we get caught up in the moment and play down to the other team's level.  I don't know why.  

Because every team in every sport sometimes does this

[pocoboy]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

 

This has nothing to do with past history. It has everything to do with the soundness of the strategic mind, and we all know how that goes with McDermott. If your "we get no yardage" plan is to kick a field goal, your foremost goal should be to tap out their time outs & try to gain low-risk yards to get closer. This is because the best case scenario (for the Bills) in today's rules they'll get the kickoff at the 25 with lots of time. You then force them to go the field with Tyrod, no time outs, plus they need a 2 point conversion, assuming you make. If you miss, they still get the ball as they did, but again with no time outs.

 

IF YOU PASS, you should punt. End of story. You pass because you plan to pin them deep. Sure, they could still return it, or the ball could go in the end zone, or they could block it (they can also block a FGA). But you would be willing to risk leaving them a time out if you are going to strand them >80 yards from the victory.

 

I think the play call was good, the execution level of this team has been poor at best. It pains me to say this because it's a f'ing Pats quote, but it looks like the offense isn't "doing their job." on a day to day basis. Sloppy, uninspired, & unprepared all around.

[Dopey]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

Missing the kick would put the Giants in good field position w/ a time out to work with and ample time to dink & dunk their way down to the red zone.

 

If McDermott would’ve punted, it would’ve placed the Giants around the 10 (who haven’t scored a TD in multiple games) and made them drive 90 yards! This decision would’ve eliminated all those Trent Edwards check downs and forced Tyrod to make multiple big plays. I’m sure the analytics would back this up all day. 
 

I know it’s irrelevant now, but the Bills are darn lucky to have escaped this game w/ a win. 

If we had punted, you would have bitched about that too. You can deny it, but we know better. It's what TBD does.

[Ramza86]

I take the kick everytime.

[MAJBobby]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

Missing the kick would put the Giants in good field position w/ a time out to work with and ample time to dink & dunk their way down to the red zone.

 

If McDermott would’ve punted, it would’ve placed the Giants around the 10 (who haven’t scored a TD in multiple games) and made them drive 90 yards! This decision would’ve eliminated all those Trent Edwards check downs and forced Tyrod to make multiple big plays. I’m sure the analytics would back this up all day. 
 

I know it’s irrelevant now, but the Bills are darn lucky to have escaped this game w/ a win. 

The BIGGEST blunder of the game will remain with TT checking into a run at half. 3 points there and the Giants Kick at the end for a win and not have to try and get the TD. 

[nedboy7]

You have to live with the kick there. 

[streetkings01]

If Knox catches that pass we take 3 kneel downs and game over.

[Rocbillsfan1]

I know the Bills were playing for the first down but I don’t get why they didn’t just run 3 straight times force giants to take all their timeouts and then Punt. Pretty sure odds would have said this gave them the best chance to win. 50+ yard field goals are only about a 60% chance and even if you make it you give them the ball at the 25 with more time and a timeout by not running on third down. The game at that point was all about clock mgmt. which over mcdermotts career he has shown to be horrible with. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

8 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

You have to live with the kick there. 

No you actually don’t. Idk why people keep saying this. The giants offense was struggling why give them time and a timeout in their pocket. So stupid. Pin them deep with little time and the game is about over. 

[RichRiderBills]

Thought Knox drop was bumble of the game. He just constantly blows clutch plays. 

[Low Positive]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

I have seen it. You are also wrong Mahomes not only would get the call he wouldn’t have messed up at the end of the 1st half and not gotten at least 3 points out of that drive. Taylor gifted the Bills the win with that dumb brain cramp right there.

It’s like the collective NFL world has zero memory for Mahones’ blunders.  He mismanaged a goal to goal situation at the end of the first half just as badly against Cincinnati in the 2022 AFC Championship Game.

[zow2]

The biggest individual blunder was Gabe's fumble.  Just a lack of ball security.   It gave the Giants tons of life, destroyed the Bills offense for the entire first half and you could immediately see that it would be "one of those games" when it happened.

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I said on 2nd down that I hoped he'd trust his defense and let Bass try it to go up 8.

I stand by that and think it was the right call.

Yes, I have no problem letting Bass kick that 2nd one.   But his Bass- O- matic moniker is fading. You gotta make one of those 2.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

It’s like the collective NFL world has zero memory for Mahones’ blunders.  He mismanaged a goal to goal situation at the end of the first half just as badly against Cincinnati in the 2022 AFC Championship Game.

Everyone criticizes with the power of hindsight…a Barkley run from the 1 yard line is pretty damn tough to stop and if tyrod got a good look to check into that it was probably a pretty high percentage play.

 

what if they threw the ball and he took a sack?.  That’s probably just as likely as stopping saquon on a 1 yd run 

 

 

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

I have seen it. You are also wrong Mahomes not only would get the call he wouldn’t have messed up at the end of the 1st half and not gotten at least 3 points out of that drive. Taylor gifted the Bills the win with that dumb brain cramp right there.

You completely change the game that way though if you retroactively give the giants points before halftime…the bills last drive they were super conservative and not in 4 down territory.  I think you change the playcalling a bit too…doubt they would’ve been satisfied with a 16+ play td drive when trailing two scores lol
 

I don’t think mahomes gets two untimed down type dpis in a row to close out a game that aren’t obscenely egregious. I can’t recall seeing any qb ever get that before

Edited October 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

It’s like the collective NFL world has zero memory for Mahones’ blunders.  He mismanaged a goal to goal situation at the end of the first half just as badly against Cincinnati in the 2022 AFC Championship Game.

BUT winning 2 SBs gives people amnesia. 

[Big Turk]

What could have been the biggest blunder didn't turn out to be one since they scored anyway, but that shotgun run attempt on 2nd and inches from the goalline where Murray lost 2 yards was mind numbing to me...the only acceptable call in that situation is an Allen tush push...3 of them in a row if needed.  Likely scores on the 1st one, but there is no excuse for that run call there.

 

The actual TD pass to Harty on the next play was equally as brilliant as the previous playcall was terrible, he literally jogged into the endzone with no Giant defender on his side of the field.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Big Turk

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 hours ago, Alpo Chino said:

Yes it was extremely questionable. About a 5% chance Giants drive 90 yards with 1:30.

A bit of an oversimplification…what are the odds you can’t complete that throw to the TE and miss that fg.  Also you’ve gotta still punt the ball out at the 10 lol if it was a touchback it was only like 16 yards of field position change for a chance to end the game.

 

They just missed back to back pretty high percentage plays to win the game and now everybody is playing the hindsight game 

 

5% chance is a weird number to assign even if the punt was guaranteed to be as good as you’re saying they had to go an extra 25 yards in 4 down territory where a td wins it vs  giving up two very high percentage chances of ending the game 

[klos63]

9 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The decision to kick a 53 FG when already up 4+ points knowing your kicker has been shaky and shanked another 53 yarder earlier in the game.

Missing the kick would put the Giants in good field position w/ a time out to work with and ample time to dink & dunk their way down to the red zone.

 

If McDermott would’ve punted, it would’ve placed the Giants around the 10 (who haven’t scored a TD in multiple games) and made them drive 90 yards! This decision would’ve eliminated all those Trent Edwards check downs and forced Tyrod to make multiple big plays. I’m sure the analytics would back this up all day. 
 

I know it’s irrelevant now, but the Bills are darn lucky to have escaped this game w/ a win. 

Our kicker hasn't been 'shaky', he was perfect going into the game. He didn't 'shank' a 53 yarder, he missed it.

[UKBillFan]

54 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The biggest individual blunder was Gabe's fumble.  Just a lack of ball security.   It gave the Giants tons of life, destroyed the Bills offense for the entire first half and you could immediately see that it would be "one of those games" when it happened.

 

The Bills offense was fine for the first two plays of the following series - a good pass to to Diggs and a nice run from Murray. Then Jackson went down injured and the offense then, for some reason, struggled until the third quarter.

[PatsFanNH]

53 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 

I don’t think mahomes gets two untimed down type dpis in a row to close out a game that aren’t obscenely egregious. I can’t recall seeing any qb ever get that before

I don’t know the Chiefs did get an entire game where the RT lined up wrong in almost every snap. IMO Mahomes gets the Brady treatment now and he would get that flag.. but it wasn’t Mahomes and Taylor is a good backup who did as well as you can expect from a backup. 

[RiotAct]

I agree with the OP.  If we were up 6 at that point, the FG is the right call (attempt to completely ice the game).  

 

However, up only 5, the risk is too great - and that risk was realized when Bass missed once again.  Giants had great field position and nearly won.

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I said on 2nd down that I hoped he'd trust his defense and let Bass try it to go up 8.

I stand by that and think it was the right call.

I found this Athletic piece pretty persuasive and wanted to punt last night. The Giants-with a truly non-dynamic offense--weren't going to go 90 yards with no timeouts. I would have run the ball on third down and punted unless a run resulted in a big enough gain where the FG attempt was not a 50-50 proposition.

 

https://theathletic.com/4966164/2023/10/16/eagles-jets-result-fourth-down/

 

'Most would agree that NFL teams have gotten smarter in their handling of fourth-down situations, going for it when it makes sense instead of punting almost out of habit. Making the aggressive play to win can absolutely be the smart play, regardless of results. It’s progress when teams seriously wrestle with these questions, not just on fourth down, but in all aspects of their game-management strategies.

 

But when the Philadelphia Eagles tossed a killer interception on third-and-9 from their own 46-yard line while protecting a 14-12 lead against the New York Jets with two minutes left in the fourth quarter Sunday, a longtime NFL exec reached out with a question: “Have we come too far with coaches wanting to ‘win’ the game instead of sometimes being more traditional?”

 

His point: Philadelphia could have run the ball on third-and-9, then punted from around midfield. The Jets would have taken possession with barely more than a minute remaining, no timeouts and Zach Wilson behind center facing a ferocious Eagles pass rush. Hurts was struggling in the game to that point. Was having Hurts pass in a situation when gaining a first down is unlikely the smart play under the circumstances?

 

“Are coaches not willing to go against the slight statistical benefit that WPA (win probability added) provides?” the exec asked. “Is it no longer OK to let your defense win the game when it clearly has a huge talent/performance advantage? This Eagles game was 14-12, not 37-35.”

 

Critics attuned to the trend toward aggressiveness pounce when teams pass up chances to go for the kill. Coaches know team owners tend to be fans, not football strategists. They know owners listen to these criticisms. That can provide an incentive to make the aggressive play, to go down swinging.

 

“Everybody thinks they are playing Brady, Manning or Rodgers in two-minute,” a veteran coach said. “If before the game someone offered Philly to put its defense against Zach Wilson on a need-field-goal drive starting inside his own 15 with no timeouts and a minute left, you think they would have taken it?”

 

In the situation Sunday, the Jets’ offense had netted 19 yards on its previous three possessions, producing one field goal on a drive that gained 16 of those yards. The Eagles had already suffered three turnovers. They knew Wilson would be taking over deep in his territory with very little time remaining.'

40 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

A bit of an oversimplification…what are the odds you can’t complete that throw to the TE and miss that fg.  Also you’ve gotta still punt the ball out at the 10 lol if it was a touchback it was only like 16 yards of field position change for a chance to end the game.

 

They just missed back to back pretty high percentage plays to win the game and now everybody is playing the hindsight game 

 

5% chance is a weird number to assign even if the punt was guaranteed to be as good as you’re saying they had to go an extra 25 yards in 4 down territory where a td wins it vs  giving up two very high percentage chances of ending the game 

53-yard kicks in Buffalo are never "high percentage plays." They're roughly 50-50. Bass is 11-18 lifetime on 50+ yard kicks.

[Meatloaf63]

3 hours ago, gobills1212 said:

Dont be that guy. Had this have worked, no one ever wld have questioned it. You either want your team to be agressive or you dont. The bad look is complaining abt it after the fact. Id hope 80% of coaches make that call. I'm also happy ours is in the majority of that 80%

Don’t be the guy that is reckless. There are times to be aggressive as times to show restraint. This was not the time to be aggressive.

[Rocbillsfan1]

8 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Don’t be the guy that is reckless. There are times to be aggressive as times to show restraint. This was not the time to be aggressive.

100%. Over mcdermott’s career he just doesn’t show any sort of knack for this. I’d pretty much do the opposite of what he does in most critical decisions. If you are playing the Chiefs or the Dolphins you have to make different decisions then playing the Giants who haven’t scored a TD all game. Either way you are going to have to trust your d in this case so would you rather trust your D up 8 with the giants with a timeout and a lot of time but also leave yourself extremely vulnerable with a missed fg or no timeouts about 40 seconds backed up in their end? I’m going with the latter. 

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Amen.

 

Tyrod is not going 90 yards in 1:30..

 

Was an awful decision by MCD. Even if you hit the FG, it’s still a one score game

We’ve seen enough of Tyrod to know that all too well. 

[UKBillFan]

The biggest blunder of the game was Daboll's calling at the end of the second quarter. Well, that or how Taylor translated it.

 

I didn't see anyone call for a punt at the time on the GDT. It was logical - go up eight an put themselves in a position where even a two XP TD would tie the game and take it to OT. People were fuming when they elected to punt rather than go for FG in the first quarter.

Edited October 16, 2023 by UKBillFan

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Our kicker hasn't been 'shaky', he was perfect going into the game. He didn't 'shank' a 53 yarder, he missed it.

Obviously he was shaky because he missed 2 FGs he could make in his sleep. It was a rare off-day for Bass. 

[harmonkillebrew]

questionable call, esp considering he passed on opportunities earlier in the game and last week to let Bass try one from 50+. If you don't try then, why at the end of the game when the result of missing is worse?

[Einstein]

10 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

You trust your great kicker. 

 

Completely agree. It was the right call.

 

Part of me wonders if Bass’ confidence was shaken when McD punted from the 37 yard line. If I was Bass I would shook my head at that. But i’m just pulling that out of my butt to be honest.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

No you actually don’t. Idk why people keep saying this. The giants offense was struggling why give them time and a timeout in their pocket. So stupid. Pin them deep with little time and the game is about over. 

Exactly. It’s okay to be conservative in that situation. Against any QB worth his salt I would be okay with the FGA, but you gotta put your chips on your defense to stop a journeyman making his first start in 3 years. They should’ve never been put in that situation where they have to defend a short field against an offense w/ 4 downs to work with. 

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

The BIGGEST blunder of the game will remain with TT checking into a run at half. 3 points there and the Giants Kick at the end for a win and not have to try and get the TD. 

This is true. I was referring more towards Buffalo’s mistakes 

2 hours ago, zow2 said:

The biggest individual blunder was Gabe's fumble.  Just a lack of ball security.   It gave the Giants tons of life, destroyed the Bills offense for the entire first half and you could immediately see that it would be "one of those games" when it happened.

That defender made a great play and timed their punch perfectly.