Over-reaction Three Weeks In.... Offense seems disjointed

[Ethan in Cleveland]

OL has been solid.

Seems like they are not getting much YAC but the stats say they are 4th best in the league. 

Still have not found a way to get Knox and Kincaid the ball

Harty and Sherfield are useless

Can't run a screen at all of any kind. 

 

 

If I am Dorsey I go two WR, Knox, Kincaid, and a RB.  Then go no huddle.  From this group they can run anything they want and if Miami stays in nickel they should be able to run the ball and go play action.  

I would also like to see more Shakir in the slot when they go 4 and 5 WR sets. 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I mean don’t get me wrong. It’s good to have dink and dunk. My fear is that they can’t open it up if needed. Maybe I’m premature. Just need to see it. We’ll find out this week cus Miami can put up points. 
 

yes we put up points today but our D is not going to get four plus turnovers hardly ever. What does yesterday’s offense look like without all those turnovers and Washington putting some points up instead?

 

If Washington wasn't turning the ball over and putting up some points, I think we stay aggressive on offense.  

[Drew21PA]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If Washington wasn't turning the ball over and putting up some points, I think we stay aggressive on offense.  

Our coach actually has character and ya know - well dignity unlike mcdaniels in miami

 

se could have dropped 40-50 on them on the road but we didn’t 

[Scott7975]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If Washington wasn't turning the ball over and putting up some points, I think we stay aggressive on offense.  

I would think so. I’m just not so sure of our play design. We will see. Even if McD is a miracle genius and shuts down Miami this week… which I actually think McD can slow them down because he has done it before, we will get into a shootout eventually 

[Franco_92]

There is enough going right with the offense that I am confident it CAN be the best we've had with Josh

 

Our offense was humming through 6 games last year and then spent 2 months not working quite right at the end. 

 

I'm worried about stacking Ws any way we can now. I will be worried about what the offense looks like in late December 

[Coach Tuesday]

The simple problem is they don’t have anyone besides Diggs who can consistently win his one on one matchups.  So they have to rely on scheme and Allen’s heroics if the defense takes Diggs out of the equation.

[scuba guy]

I am actually ok with the offense right know.

 

I think Miami is has hit there high and buff mite be pecking in 10 weeks just in time for the playoffs 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I would think so. I’m just not so sure of our play design. We will see. Even if McD is a miracle genius and shuts down Miami this week… which I actually think McD can slow them down because he has done it before, we will get into a shootout eventually 

 

 I certainly think the winner of this game needs to score at least 30.

[78thealltimegreat]

Some of the play calling yesterday was a definite head scratcher even though it wasn’t the red zone in the 3rd qtr the decision to run on 3rd and 1 out of shotgun and then pass on 4th and 1 was weird.

In addition Josh is still plagued by drops by guys he relies on see Dawsons drop in the end zone and Gabe’s drop in the 3rd qtr. 

I think the interior oline is the best it’s looked in years and I don’t see why the Bills just don’t pound it more. 
The weather played a part yesterday no doubt but I think they’ll be fine Miami had some talent on D but they don’t have Washington’s Dline.

Bills are one of the few teams that can go punch for punch with Miami but the smart thing is just grind on them and shrink the game. 

[Casey D]

When you totally dominate another team in all phases, it is hard to see nuance.  I mean the offense did not need to be taking chances to get style points.  The O-line was great against a great front 4.  If they keep that up, the fundamentals are all there.  And there are enough skill guys on offense to make the team explosive.  So relax and do not overthink this.

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Casey D said:

When you totally dominate another team in all phases, it is hard to see nuance.  I mean the offense did not need to be taking chances to get style points.  The O-line was great against a great front 4.  If they keep that up, the fundamentals are all there.  And there are enough skill guys on offense to make the team explosive.  So relax and do not overthink this.

True enough. I don’t care how they win as long as they win. 

[Bangarang]

I get where the OP is coming from and I sort of agree.

 

On the surface, we’re 2nd in 3rd down conversion rate and 13th in red zone scoring. I still can’t shake the feeling that things seem harder than what the numbers indicate and if it weren’t for Josh doing superhuman things then this offense would not be nearly as good.

 

Dorsey can be so infuriating with how he calls a game. The WR screens to Harty that never go anywhere, the constant RB draws where even casual fans can see them coming, Kinkaid seems like an after thought in this offense, the complete lack of scheming guys open to get YAC. 
 

When i look at this team so far, I see a championship caliber defense and an offense that goes through the motions more than it should. I put a lot of that on Dorsey.

[Process]

Dorsey needs to figure out how to use Kincaid and get him more involved. 

 

Also need to end the Harty experiment. Bad signing. Move on. Don't force him into the game plan because of his contract.

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Some of the play calling yesterday was a definite head scratcher even though it wasn’t the red zone in the 3rd qtr the decision to run on 3rd and 1 out of shotgun and then pass on 4th and 1 was weird.

In addition Josh is still plagued by drops by guys he relies on see Dawsons drop in the end zone and Gabe’s drop in the 3rd qtr. 

I think the interior oline is the best it’s looked in years and I don’t see why the Bills just don’t pound it more. 
The weather played a part yesterday no doubt but I think they’ll be fine Miami had some talent on D but they don’t have Washington’s Dline.

Bills are one of the few teams that can go punch for punch with Miami but the smart thing is just grind on them and shrink the game. 

 

I think this is a game we play just like the Raiders game.  Just move the chains and keep the Dolphins offense on the sidelines.

But the only way it works is if we score TD's and not kicking FG's in the redzone.  

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Billznut said:

I think what we are witnessing is the evolution into what the Bills braintrust sees as their “blueprint” to taking the next step for winning in the postseason. It’s no secret McD would like to see more running and more control by the trenches. I think we are witnessing Buffalo making the transformation from the pass happy offense of the last few years into what they think and hope will finally get them over the finish line in Jan and Feb. It will be a work in progress with peaks and valleys all season, seeing what works and what doesn’t. I expect the plan is to be firmly comfortable with this “new” style balanced offense by December for the home stretch. And I bet by next season they have it even more perfected. 

This is excellent.

 

I have evolved into thinking about what the Bills are doing by recognizing that McDermott and Beane are building the team in the image they want.   That's what I was saying to people this summer about Bernard.  Lots of people were out-of-their-minds about the Bills having filled the hole at middle linebacker, and it finally occurred to me that they hadn't acquired anyone because they didn't think they needed anyone.   Low and behold, 43 seems to be doing just fine. 

 

I think we have to assume that the offense is playing in the image of what McDermott wants.   McDermott wants to be able to play ball control football, which means running and short passes, and that's what we're seeing.  I also think they believe that explosive football is not sustainable.  They don't believe, and I agree that the Dolphins will be scoring 70 in December.  Not since the greatest show on turf as any team sustained an explosive offense.  Look at the 49ers, with three exceptional skill players, and yet their offense is a ball-control offense. 

 

It's hard to argue with the formula:  Play stifling defense most of the time, and when the offense gets the ball, score at the end of a six-minute drive.  Occasionally, two minutes.  

 

 

[TheWeatherMan]

1st and 4th down play calling is a problem.  

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is excellent.

 

I have evolved into thinking about what the Bills are doing by recognizing that McDermott and Beane are building the team in the image they want.   That's what I was saying to people this summer about Bernard.  Lots of people were out-of-their-minds about the Bills having filled the hole at middle linebacker, and it finally occurred to me that they hadn't acquired anyone because they didn't think they needed anyone.   Low and behold, 43 seems to be doing just fine. 

 

I think we have to assume that the offense is playing in the image of what McDermott wants.   McDermott wants to be able to play ball control football, which means running and short passes, and that's what we're seeing.  I also think they believe that explosive football is not sustainable.  They don't believe, and I agree that the Dolphins will be scoring 70 in December.  Not since the greatest show on turf as any team sustained an explosive offense.  Look at the 49ers, with three exceptional skill players, and yet their offense is a ball-control offense. 

 

It's hard to argue with the formula:  Play stifling defense most of the time, and when the offense gets the ball, score at the end of a six-minute drive.  Occasionally, two minutes.  

 

 

Surprise surprise, defending McD again.  You are one of the best posters here, but it is so often a McD defense.  Heck you know way more too about football than I do, as I rely on the eye test (not wearing rose-coloured glasses).  

 

We have the most explosive qb in football (1 & 1a Mahomes) and as said two lopsided victories, but I am concerned as to what I see on offense.  I hope I'm completely wrong, but much better to talk about it now after back to back blowouts then after a loss. 

 

Sorry McD, you don't do that to Allen.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Billznut said:

I think what we are witnessing is the evolution into what the Bills braintrust sees as their “blueprint” to taking the next step for winning in the postseason. It’s no secret McD would like to see more running and more control by the trenches. I think we are witnessing Buffalo making the transformation from the pass happy offense of the last few years into what they think and hope will finally get them over the finish line in Jan and Feb. It will be a work in progress with peaks and valleys all season, seeing what works and what doesn’t. I expect the plan is to be firmly comfortable with this “new” style balanced offense by December for the home stretch. And I bet by next season they have it even more perfected. 

For this they need to run Harris more,  

[Process]

5 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

1st and 4th down play calling is a problem.  

2nd down was the biggest issue yesterday. Run up the middle on every 2nd and 10 in the first half. 🤮

[DapperCam]

The offense should be able to consistently move down the field without Allen heroics.

 

We saw that in the Raiders game, but not the Commanders game. He had to scramble around and do all sorts nonsense on third and long.

 

The optimist in me says that they are trying a lot of new things that are different than last year, and they are in the progress of figuring it out. Even while disjointed they are a top 5 offense in the league.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Process said:

2nd down was the biggest issue yesterday. Run up the middle on every 2nd and 10 in the first half. 🤮

I mentioned in game, you have to have a threat of a running game or teams will rush your QB hard. It worked as we kept Washington's Dline on their heels and had a balanced offense.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Bockeye said:

At least Davis and Knox aren’t dropping balls anymore. Big help on our drives. 
 

 

 

😬

 

 

Yeah if the big money TE and the wannabe-big-money "WR2" caught the passes they should have I expect they have 2 more TD's scored(and 1 less FG and 0 turnovers instead of 1).

 

26-0 going into the 4th looks a lot better than 16-0.

 

It's entirely a playmaker issue.

 

Diggs is the only reliable veteran option in the passing game........again.

[Billsfan1972]

BTW to get off the Offense for a while.  The Buffalo D has faced a "Murderers Row" of Zach Wilson, JimmyG & Sam Howell through 3 weeks.....

[HeHateMe]

We need Kincaid running those Knox routes in the endzone...  Where are those preseason routes that Kincaid was running in the middle of the field as well?  Guy catches everything - use him!

[Beast]

31 minutes ago, Process said:

Dorsey needs to figure out how to use Kincaid and get him more involved. 

 

Also need to end the Harty experiment. Bad signing. Move on. Don't force him into the game plan because of his contract.

So, is Harty, Sherfield, Shakir and Knox also a waste because they haven’t exactly had eye-popping stats.

 

It’s a long season. You’ll see all of the above mentioned play a needed role as we move along.

[Cray51]

Some of you all need to go watch average NFL teams.  The Bills are a clear top 5 team in league, and their offense is very very good.

[ALLinALLEN]

The WR screen to Diggs on 3rd and 10 or whatever, on the edge of FG range, was BAD. That's my only negative from yesterday. Was there, we looked great.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Cray51 said:

Some of you all need to go watch average NFL teams.  The Bills are a clear top 5 team in league, and their offense is very very good.

Been there, done that for too long.  We have Josh Allen now, which means automatically the Bills are a top 5 offense.  

[BuffaloRebound]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah if the big money TE and the wannabe-big-money "WR2" caught the passes they should have I expect they have 2 more TD's scored(and 1 less FG and 0 turnovers instead of 1).

 

26-0 going into the 4th looks a lot better than 16-0.

 

It's entirely a playmaker issue.

 

Diggs is the only reliable veteran option in the passing game........again.

Completely agree with this.  Knox’s hands are highly suspect and Davis is decent but not a #2 on an elite offense.  

[WotAGuy]

“Josh is thinking too much and not playing free and instinctively.  I put that on the coaching” - Justin Fields 

[Solomon Grundy]

Honestly, I don't like Ken Dorsey's route concepts. Too many times I see receivers running the same routes yards apart. I haven't seen Kincaid run a seam route yet. Get that Harty screen out of the playbook. 

[billsbackto81]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

 

 

  

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is Washington has a pretty good defense hobbled by a raw QB under center.  Couple that with the fact the Bills offense sputtered several times in the RZ settling for FGs makes this game look closer before the 4th quarter onslaught. 

[Solomon Grundy]

30 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

The offense should be able to consistently move down the field without Allen heroics.

 

We saw that in the Raiders game, but not the Commanders game. He had to scramble around and do all sorts nonsense on third and long.

 

The optimist in me says that they are trying a lot of new things that are different than last year, and they are in the progress of figuring it out. Even while disjointed they are a top 5 offense in the league.

A more reliable WR2 would help this team tremendously. And maybe better playcalling!! 4th and inches and you call a play out of the shotgun? 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Solomon Grundy

[Process]

28 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I mentioned in game, you have to have a threat of a running game or teams will rush your QB hard. It worked as we kept Washington's Dline on their heels and had a balanced offense.

You don't accomplish that by running a shotgun draw up the middle on every single 2nd and long

[Matt_In_NH]

I would not say over reaction.  I would say wrong reaction.  

[Freak-O]

Knox dropped a TD that hit him in the hands and Davis only got one foot in on another. It wasn’t like the Bills didn’t create any chances to score. 

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I would not say over reaction.  I would say wrong reaction.  

I'd rather be posting this after a 37-3 win then a 27-13 loss (see Cincy 2023).

[nedboy7]

16 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

“Josh is thinking too much and not playing free and instinctively.  I put that on the coaching” - Justin Fields 

He played a little too free in the jets game. That’s coaching. Then he plays more disciplined.  It’s coaching. Sometimes it’s Josh. 

[wvbillsfan]

I don’t know if it’s disjointed or we have a better understanding of situational awareness 

 

We moved the ball ok. I think when Tre got that int at the one we moved the ball  and got 3 out of it. We had very solid drives that just ended in three points. However we are consistently running the ball and controlling the game. The explosive plays aren’t coming as often as they seemingly did but they still happen. 

 

I would like to see our tight ends more involved. It would be nice to draft a guy in the first round and actually use him consistently. 
 

I assume that will come with time. Kincaid is solid and when he gets more chances our offensive rhythm will improve. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, eball said:

The Davis drop was a big drive killer.

 

That was really disheartening. I thought he had finally turned the corner on those drops. Kaye he still has. But definitely had a bit of Gabe-PTSD after that.