Over-reaction Three Weeks In.... Offense seems disjointed

[Bockeye]

At least Davis and Knox aren’t dropping balls anymore. Big help on our drives. 
 

 

 

😬

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Over-reaction? Try ridiculous on for size.  As compared to last year, the Bills are more balanced.  Additionally, they faced yesterday what is arguably the best front four in football with no sacks.

 

 

Yep those big runs in the 4th quarter when the game is over looks great on the stat line. 

 

The Bills blew the Jets game, which makes this week that much more important and regardless of the points the Bills have scored, the offense needs to be better.

Just now, Bockeye said:

At least Davis and Knox aren’t dropping balls anymore. Big help on our drives. 
 

 

 

😬

Davis dropped one yesterday.

[NoSaint]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think I'd call it disjointed. I think Dorsey was the problem yesterday. Some of his playcalling was bizarre. And I am still not convinced about their design in the redzone, which feels overly contrived. I don't see them run enough what I consider base redzone concepts like the outside rub route, and the Tight End chip and release. The seem obsessed with motioning Harty across the formation then releasing him into the flat. I am a subscriber of "players not plays" in the redzone so I'd like less stuff designed for Harty and more for Diggs and Knox who have been our most reliable redzone guys.

I’m even fine with playing to exceptional skill sets like hartys agility and short space speed 

 

but I think a lot of this loops back to identity. 
 

I also think they should give cook some touches down there just because he’s been such a hot hand. I think he could slip in and then also I think you have to reward him with one at soooooomepoint, right?

[Realist]

Last I saw there are no style points in the NFL. The Power Rankings do not reflect the standings, this isn't college football. The idea is to come out with a win, they all count the same. It doesn't matter if it's by one point or 50.

 

Every single game there are plays that don't work. Yes, I was dumbfounded on that fourth down play when Josh went into shotgun. The play didn't work, you move on. You don't fret over it. As "bad" as the Bills offense played according to the usual around here, they still put up 30 on a very good front four. I would love it i they won every game like this all year.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We we very successful on converting 3rd downs against one of the most dominant DL in football.  This is nitpicking.

Again the Bills had barely 300 yards offense prior to the last drive.  They had 58 yards rushing (taking away Allen's runs) prior to the 64 yard drive at the end.  

[teef]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I think it was pretty clear they thought the formula to win yesterday was score 20 and don’t give any short fields. 
 

How much you can lean on that in this league is a question mark. Letting bad teams hang around within two scores can be trouble though I’d be curious the analytics of it.
 

that said, they did reference Josh playing like he had to outscore Rodgers instead of Wilson in the jets game which was a point I made several times in the aftermath when talking about no one being in his ear. 

they're at least trying hard to show they can establish the run, which i have to imagine adds to all of it.  i have no problem doing it in the earlier part of the season, but they're going to have to push the ball down the field against miami.    the trick is going to be doing that and not have josh turn the ball over.  

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I’m even fine with playing to exceptional skill sets like hartys agility and short space speed 

 

but I think a lot of this loops back to identity. 
 

I also think they should give cook some touches down there just because he’s been such a hot hand. I think he could slip in and then also I think you have to reward him with one at soooooomepoint, right?

 

In principle sure, but I am not sure we have seen Harty's agility and speed yet. We have seen him slipping over and failing to turn the corner.

[BillzFreak]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again the Bills had barely 300 yards offense prior to the last drive.  They had 58 yards rushing (taking away Allen's runs) prior to the 64 yard drive at the end.  

And what does that have to do with us being 60% on 3rd down which AGAIN is very very good in the NFL?

[Johnnycage46]

The last 2 weeks is basically how New England kept on winning and winning and winning.  Not always glamorous or "fun" but it's winning football.  Not sure why people need to B word about literally everything.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, BillzFreak said:

And what does that have to do with us being 60% on 3rd down which AGAIN is very very good in the NFL?

Again take a look at the conversions and basically it is as usual because of Josh.  

 

I get it, you are a glass half full guy.  I'm sure you said the exact same thing down the stretch last year, when a # of us expressed concerns with the offence.  How did that workout vs. Cincy?  

 

The Bills were fine yesterday, just making an observation that the Offense.

3 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

The last 2 weeks is basically how New England kept on winning and winning and winning.  Not always glamorous or "fun" but it's winning football.  Not sure why people need to B word about literally everything.

Have the Bills won 6 Super Bowls?  Did I miss something?

[Chaos]

First four trips to the red zone yielded 16 points.  Against explosive offensive teams, this is probably not quite good enough.  The red zone play calls and play designs don’t seem much different than last year.  This level of red zone success is fine again average or below average teams.   It is certainly eligible to improve as

the new players have more games together. But I think to go deep in the playoffs it must improve. 

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again the Bills had barely 300 yards offense prior to the last drive.  They had 58 yards rushing (taking away Allen's runs) prior to the 64 yard drive at the end.  

 

How many things are we going to take away?  So far we have to take away the ENTIRE 2nd half against the Raiders and the entire 4th quarter of the Washington game.

Now we have to take away Allen's rushing yards.   What's next?  "If you take away all the throws to Diggs, our passing game wasn't that good." 

 

We weren't perfect but very efficient.  Yeah, things could have gone more smoothly but nothing was concerning on offense yesterday.  

[Johnnycage46]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again take a look at the conversions and basically it is as usual because of Josh.  

 

I get it, you are a glass half full guy.  I'm sure you said the exact same thing down the stretch last year, when a # of us expressed concerns with the offence.  How did that workout vs. Cincy?  

 

The Bills were fine yesterday, just making an observation that the Offense.

Have the Bills won 6 Super Bowls?  Did I miss something?

 

Oh yes, yes indeed.

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL

Take away 3 successful quarters and they weren’t as good.  
That’s now how it works.

 

It is what a lot of the uber critics here do. They say "ah yes the way it happened was okay... but what if it hadn't happened that way? What if they'd been worse? Then it would have been bad wouldn't it? See there's your proof."

 

It is the most batshit crazy way of engaging in debate.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again take a look at the conversions and basically it is as usual because of Josh.  

 

I get it, you are a glass half full guy.  I'm sure you said the exact same thing down the stretch last year, when a # of us expressed concerns with the offence.  How did that workout vs. Cincy?  

 

The Bills were fine yesterday, just making an observation that the Offense.

Have the Bills won 6 Super Bowls?  Did I miss something?

 

Yep.  I think Allen was pressured all day, had no time to throw, had to go off script on almost every 3rd down.

The offensive line and all the WR's let him down.  It was all Josh.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How many things are we going to take away?  So far we have to take away the ENTIRE 2nd half against the Raiders and the entire 4th quarter of the Washington game.

Now we have to take away Allen's rushing yards.   What's next?  "If you take away all the throws to Diggs, our passing game wasn't that good." 

 

We weren't perfect but very efficient.  Yeah, things could have gone more smoothly but nothing was concerning on offense yesterday.  

Yes you can always throw out Allen Scrambles, as they were not designed plays.  Up 30-0 at the end of the game, yes it is going to be rushing plays, and prior to that the running game was meh.  

 

And one catch from Gabe is not enough.

[Low Positive]

So, after the Jets game this board and the entire NFL was screaming for Josh to “take what the defense gives him ” and “against a good defense, move the chains and kick FGs.” So now that he’s doing just that, those same people are asking “where are the big, explosive plays?” Can’t have it both ways. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Oh yes, yes indeed.

 

He always does.  

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yep.  I think Allen was pressured all day, had no time to throw, had to go off script on almost every 3rd down.

The offensive line and all the WR's let him down.  It was all Josh.

 

Yea but if Josh hadn't thrown those passes who would? See! Proof!

[BillzFreak]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How many things are we going to take away?  So far we have to take away the ENTIRE 2nd half against the Raiders and the entire 4th quarter of the Washington game.

Now we have to take away Allen's rushing yards.   What's next?  "If you take away all the throws to Diggs, our passing game wasn't that good." 

 

We weren't perfect but very efficient.  Yeah, things could have gone more smoothly but nothing was concerning on offense yesterday.  

He is spinning in circles now based on games played last year. No valid points other then...yeah but last year. That's a tired and lazy way to try and make a point imo. He can get the attention he obviously desperately needs from the other people on here, I'm done with him because he has nothing left but....yeah but last year.

[NoSaint]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In principle sure, but I am not sure we have seen Harty's agility and speed yet. We have seen him slipping over and failing to turn the corner.

 

that we haven’t in a couple of play calls doesn’t mean it’s not there or they haven’t seen it. That said, it’s not a terribly unfair argument you make either.

[balln]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

I disagree about last week,  O was balanced and dominant.  

What changed in the 4th qtr was the run game , that's a great DL and they shut down our rbs for 3 qtrs but we still moved the ball fairly well and Dorsey stuck with the run and wore em out. Didn't need Allen wearing his Superman cape this week. Should have a much easier time running on Miami which will open the playbook. 

 

Rather they work out the kinks in the run game now , we have to stay balanced to win a SB

Except we did. Early in. The game he had to scramble / and off platform dime to diggs. Numerous scramble runs…. Allen needed that bc we were dog shitt on 1 and 2 down for most of the game. 17 2 and 8 ‘s or longer!

[Royale with Cheese]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea but if Josh hadn't thrown those passes who would? See! Proof!

 

I read about a study in which they took I believe like 30 women and had make up artist put fake scars on their faces.  They then had these woman interview for jobs and told them it was a case study to see if people facial disfigurements were being discriminated against from getting jobs.

 

They showed these women what they looked like in the mirror with the really bad scars.  Then before the interview, they told them they needed to do a touch up but actually fixed the scars....but they didn't let the women see the "touch up" so in their minds, they still had the scars.

 

After the interview, most of the women said they were discriminated with in the interview.  They sat them down to get their reasons why and they it was the interviewers actions, the way they looked at them, way they phrased the questions etc....

 

So this study just basically proved that once you have convinced your mind of something, you will look at anything or everything to prove or verify it.  It's what a biased mind does.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, balln said:

Except we did. Early in. The game he had to scramble / and off platform dime to diggs. Numerous scramble runs…. Allen needed that bc we were dog shitt on 1 and 2 down for most of the game. 17 2 and 8 ‘s or longer!

Shhhhh!!!!  Again not what people want to hear.🤣😉

[JohnNord]

I think it’s fair to be a little bit concerned about the offense, only because it seems that Dorsey (and maybe Josh) struggle to get the ball into the hands of players who are mismatches for defenses.  Deonte Hardy, James Cook Dalton Kincaid are great runners after the catch, and we have yet to see them get the ball in space.  
 

I think the Washington game was kind of similar to the opener against NYJ.  The Bills struggled on 1st and 2nd down, often times setting up a 3rd and long situation.  It was especially annoying because they predictably kept running in 2nd down for little gain.  The difference was this time, Josh didn’t make the crushing errors on offense.  
 

It’s a long season and there’s still time to change some things up but I’d like to see more players get chances on offense in the passing game 

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

He is spinning in circles now based on games played last year. No valid points other then...yeah but last year. That's a tired and lazy way to try and make a point imo. He can get the attention he obviously desperately needs from the other people on here, I'm done with him because he has nothing left but....yeah but last year.

So again the fact some here (yes me included) thought the Bills offense was not great at the end of last year (and we all saw the Cincy game) and were told by the likes of you that we were wrong, has nothing to do with still seeing some of the same this year?

 

Beat Miami 45-42 and next week I'll go on about the defense.....😉🤣 

[pocoboy]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

that we haven’t in a couple of play calls doesn’t mean it’s not there or they haven’t seen it. That said, it’s not a terribly unfair argument you make either.

 

With the way each team seems ready for these types of plays to Harty, these seem to be the possibilities:

1. they are calling those plays at inopportune times
2. they are telegraphing these plays too much
3. they are telegraphing these plays exactly as they want, in order to later call the "changeup" to greater effect
4. the play design is terrible
5. the execution is terrible

[ROCBillsBeliever]

I think a lot of the VALID concern about running up the gut on 2nd and 10 MAY also have a valid rebuttal. You are up against what may be the most beastly front four you'll face all season, and they are all capable penetrators. Cook is slippery, and seems capable of wriggling between DTs, like it's his job (because it is...). 

 

We all piss and moan about the long home-run carries popped off against us, but it's almost never more than one per game. 

 

Think about the psychology of it, from Washington's side: Why would the Bills run up the gut on 2nd and 10? It's unexpected. They'll stop doing it.

 

Bills side: If just one of these works, it's 6 points and a cloud of dust.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

With the way each team seems ready for these types of plays to Harty, these seem to be the possibilities:

1. they are calling those plays at inopportune times
2. they are telegraphing these plays too much
3. they are telegraphing these plays exactly as they want, in order to later call the "changeup" to greater effect
4. the play design is terrible
5. the execution is terrible

Harry being on the field telegraphs the play

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

Been said in other threads and not ready to state this is a serious issue, but the Offense just seems a little off (and let's forget about the Jets game).

 

Week two I commented the red zone was somewhat of a slog and while the Bills moved up and down the field, it was primarily dinks and dunks and little over the middle.  No screens, TE's seem underutilized and none of those 20 yard lasers Allen is great at. 

 

Yesterday a great TD pass to Davis (his only catch of the day) and a few bb's to Diggs, three big scrambles by Josh and the last drive 64 yards rushing (with the game over), but again the offense I hope is a work in progress as I am not seeing a team firing on all cylinders. 

 

As said hope it is just an over-reaction.

 

  

you are probably going to get flak but I kinda agree. The offense doesn’t look good right now to me. Yes they put up points but it looks difficult as hell for them to do so. 
 

there are some good things happening with the offense but some bad stuff too. They don’t have it all together. 
 

everyone all happy that Josh is “taking what the defense gives them.” That works for now against mediocre teams. Going against teams that put up point and punting half the game isn’t going to work. People will see that eventually if it stays like this. Playing dink and dunk all game long only works if you execute perfectly and don’t take penalties. Josh was in 3rd and long all day. That isn’t a good recipe. 
 

I thought Dorsey was good first two games but I think his play calling was pretty bad today honestly. 

[pocoboy]

2 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Harry being on the field telegraphs the play

 

He carried or was targeted 5 out of 13 plays when he was on the field. Not sure that's particularly high, but I think if one analyzed the number of times a motioning Harty leads to him receiving a handoff or being thrown to on the screen, it would be close to 100%.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I thought Dorsey was good first two games but I think his play calling was pretty bad today honestly. 

 

I agree with that.

[colin]

i think we are figuring some things out.  all plays to harty have been trash, screen game is so bad.  gadget stuff (seems to have a high overlap w harty) is cheeks.  

the penalties have frustrated me.  some playcalls have been head scratchers, and our red zone O is just not there (the failure to get it on 4th and short w josh allen as qb is nuts.  how is he not under center for a play like that?  even if we don't sneak it, the D gets frozen)

 

beyond that, the O is the best it has been.  more deeper passing and a higher td% would be better, but they will get there.  all those chip new england teams thugged up on the oline and ran we power and speed down people's throats.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

you are probably going to get flak but I kinda agree. The offense doesn’t look good right now to me. Yes they put up points but it looks difficult as hell for them to do so. 
 

there are some good things happening with the offense but some bad stuff too. They don’t have it all together. 
 

everyone all happy that Josh is “taking what the defense gives them.” That works for now against mediocre teams. Going against teams that put up point and punting half the game isn’t going to work. People will see that eventually if it stays like this. Playing dink and dunk all game long only works if you execute perfectly and don’t take penalties. Josh was in 3rd and long all day. That isn’t a good recipe. 
 

I thought Dorsey was good first two games but I think his play calling was pretty bad today honestly. 

 

I think what has happened is for several stretches, this offense looks unbelievable...so I think we get spoiled or yearn for that to be all the time.

The offense isn't operating at their top peak but that happens.  It's better than what we saw in the last 6-8 games last year.

There are areas where we need to get better but I'm not going to say the offense doesn't look good.

 

[Drew21PA]

Sheesh

 

37-3 - defense played lights out 

 

and of course our “offense” is disjointed becuase we didn’t disrespect our opponents like the dolphins and pound 70 points on people

 

im telling you right now that’s bad karma and I hope the rest of the nfl wants to put those scumbags in their place

 

everyone should put a target on the phins

 

This isnt college - that was disrespectful - and I just look at McDaniel and think he’s an utter weasel 

[gobills404]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

The Raiders did not come out to play after halftime and Washington gave up in the 4th quarter. Take that out of the equation and focus on the competitive quarters and what do we have? This offense is definitely not clicking right now. This will draw groans and moans but it was very similar to the end of last year where we were still winning and putting up points but it just didn't look right and everyone was scared to admit it. Let's see what they do against Miami.

I just took the Chiefs 2nd quarter vs the Bears “out of the equation” for no reason and it turns out they only scored 14 points, not 41. I think their offense might be a little disjointed as well. 

[Drew21PA]

In addition

 

We want Josh to play smart ball- “buffalo has no run game!”

 

we do that this week and we have no explosiveness are you kidding?

 

sheesh 

 

 

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think what has happened is for several stretches, this offense looks unbelievable...so I think we get spoiled or yearn for that to be all the time.

The offense isn't operating at their top peak but that happens.  It's better than what we saw in the last 6-8 games last year.

There are areas where we need to get better but I'm not going to say the offense doesn't look good.

 

I mean don’t get me wrong. It’s good to have dink and dunk. My fear is that they can’t open it up if needed. Maybe I’m premature. Just need to see it. We’ll find out this week cus Miami can put up points. 
 

yes we put up points today but our D is not going to get four plus turnovers hardly ever. What does yesterday’s offense look like without all those turnovers and Washington putting some points up instead?

Edited September 25, 2023 by Scott7975

[Fan in Chicago]

Imo, a very serious talk happened after the Jets game and the play calling plus Josh's decisions made a u turn.... for the better. What we are seeing is an attempt at more balance and variety at the expense of creativity and risk. We have not seen Josh make the bone headed throws as in the Jets game (maybe an occasional one). He seems more engaged with the team on the sidelines and has a generally calm demeanor. 

Can the playing improve? Absolutely. But then again each and every team in the league will say that. 

This is similar to what Andy Reid and Mahomes did after initial struggles last year. 

[nedboy7]

Take away the two wins, this team is 0-1 and winless.  Pathetic.