Chiefs vs Lions NFL Opener

[Since1981]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

Their defense only gave up 14 points to a pretty decent offense.

 

Defense wasn’t KC’s issue last night

Totally agree. 
KC competitive advantage is 100% Pat. Pat becomes completely worthless if nobody can catch. Those WR off-season choices sting them. They may have thought Pat could make any WR good. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Since1981

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

Their defense only gave up 14 points to a pretty decent offense.

 

Defense wasn’t KC’s issue last night.

Twas a joke.

2 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Totally agree. 
KC competitive advantage is 100% Pat. Pat becomes completely worthless if nobody can catch or run routes. 

The memes about toney are pretty brutal already this morning about how bad he was.

 

I could only imagine if Davis has a game that bad.  1 catch for 1 yard.

[Bill from NYC]

The Lions got a steal in Brian Branch with the 14th pick in round 2. Many (including our own @GunnerBill iirc) had him going in round 1. The thing about Branch is that he kept working very hard in college and one could clearly see steady, even game to game improvement. He would have fit well on the Bills but we had/have too many offensive needs to draft him. This post is NOT a complaint.

 

Yeah, I am delighted to find out about his pick 6 against the Chiefs!

Edited September 8, 2023 by Bill from NYC

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

That’s a shame too, because if he had hands like Kincaid, he’d be really good. 

 

Is Toney your brother from another mother?   If Toney had  hands like Kincaid, he wouldn't have been playing last night because he'd have still been a member of the Giants.  Teams don't trade away a first round pick early in his sophomore season unless they're cutting their losses on a player they believe is a bust.   

 

 

[Lost]

Wonder if the Chiefs loss will give the Bills a little extra juice on Monday knowing they could potentially come out of the gates with a 1 game lead on their conference rival.  

[Beast]

9 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Totally agree. 
KC competitive advantage is 100% Pat. Pat becomes completely worthless if nobody can catch. Those WR off-season choices sting them. They may have thought Pat could make any WR good. 

It really was obvious. It doesn’t happen much in football for a non-QB but last night Toney flat out cost the Chiefs a win.

[Bob Jones]

7 hours ago, sven233 said:

 

He should have been lit up a couple times, but for some reason, the Lions defenders almost tried to get out of the way instead of hitting him.  But, they know that even if the hit is 100% legal, the refs would call them, so I guess they probably did what they thought they should have to do.

Safeties and defensive backs are now doing the same thing….vs ALL receivers. Seems like they’re afraid to hit a receiver at all in the middle of the field. The game sure ain’t what it used to be, all for “player safety”, I guess. 🙄

[eball]

4 hours ago, chongli said:

 

I wouldn't have gone for it, but it does make sense in a way. Detroit was up by just one. Even if Detroit scores a TD and extra point, it is still a one-score game. And if they punted, KC may never have gotten the ball back.

 

Wrong analysis.  If up one and you score a TD in the 4th quarter you absolutely go for two, because the TD itself puts you up 7 and no team coming back is going to go for two instead of kicking the PAT to tie.  If you get the 2-pointer you’ve sealed the game by going up 9.

 

There were two really bad 4th down decisions in that game.  The first was Campbell punting from the Chiefs’ 40 on 4th and 3, and the second was Reid going for 4th and 25.

 

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Skyy Moore looks a huge whiff at this point. And you could see when he ran the wrong route on that one second half Mahomes was pissed with him. How long Pat can stay patient is going to be interesting. And if he builds some trust in Rashee Rice early you can see him leapfrogging Moore and Toney very quickly. 

I just woke up after only watching the first half. I watched the second half highlights, and it appears that Toney basically cost them the game — with his two drops of good passes costing them 10 points. Is that right? Both looked like egregious drops to me.

[Italian Bills]

So… maybe, right now, everybody can see the unique and essential role that TK has to the Chiefs and Mahomes. 
 

I’m not saying Mahomes isn’t a great and gifted QB, of course he is, generational talent, so like Josh is but there is a X factor that made, till now, a “little” (sarcastic) difference between the two when we talk about goal achievement and I’m referring at SB and MVP. 
 

Put TK in Bills uniform the last three years and see how things could have ended. 
 

 

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think part of the sense of underwhelming is the expectations were a bit out of whack coming off that KC playoff game from last season. He had over 800 yards and 7 touchdowns. That isn't a bad season for a #2 receiver at all. Yes, he dropped some balls, yes, he didn't show a diversification of his route running but I think expecting that he wouldn't be the same guy he has been was the mistake. 

 

This time last year I was getting "why do you hate Gabe Davis?" questions directed my way. Now I'm getting "why can't you see his short comings?" type posts. I'm the one who hasn't changed my stance. It's the narrative around me on these boards that has been all over the shop. My expectations are firmly that Gabe will have 800-900 yards, a catch % of around 55%, and 5-7 touchdowns again in 2023. Because that is who he is. 

 

And then someone else will pay him next offseason, he'll get somewhere around $13-14m on the open market. And he'll be a #2 receiver there who puts up 650-900 yards a season depending on the team, the Quarterback and how much they pass. 

I guess the next logical question would be do you think the Bills will pay Davis that kind of money? 

 

Do you think the Bills need to upgrade the WR2 position? Assuming it's not Kincaid. 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

7 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

2) If McDermott went for it on 4th & 25 with 3 time outs there would be a 100 page "Fire McDermott" thread.  Not a single criticism by NBC announcers of Reid.  

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, on this point!

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I just woke up after only watching the first half. I watched the second half highlights, and it appears that Toney basically cost them the game — with his two drops of good passes costing them 10 points. Is that right? Both looked like egregious drops to me.

 

I mean, pretty much. 

[mannc]

40 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Feels like KC doesn’t need Chris Jones at all.

 

Also people rag on Beane for Boogie Basham, but KC traded DOWN to take Skyy Moore instead of Pickens and yikes he’s awful. 

As I recall, there were several really good WRs on the board when they took Moore.  We can be thankful that, outside of Tyreek Hill, the Chiefs WR drafting has been downright lousy.

[x-BillzeBubba]

 

[BuffaloRebound]

Crazy how little that guy is paid based on his value.  He’s been paid $10-12m per year.   If anyone should be holding out it’s him.  

[newcam2012]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Skyy Moore looks a huge whiff at this point. And you could see when he ran the wrong route on that one second half Mahomes was pissed with him. How long Pat can stay patient is going to be interesting. And if he builds some trust in Rashee Rice early you can see him leapfrogging Moore and Toney very quickly. 

Rice looked like the best WR out there for KC. Not sure that says much. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

I guess the next logical question would be do you think the Bills will pay Davis that kind of money? 

 

Do you think the Bills need to upgrade the WR2 position? Assuming it's not Kincaid. 

 

On the first question, no I don't. He'd need to have like a 1,200 yard 10 touchdown type year where he looked like a #1 receiver in waiting I think for the Bills to consider bringing him back at what he is likely to cost. 

 

Do they need to upgrade the #2 position? No they don't need to. I think they need to upgrade MLB. But could they stand to upgrade that position? Yes, and I've been in favour of them drafting a receiver early the last two years when they have failed to do so. Kincaid could well play into that calculation though. If he ends up close to being our 2nd most targeted player in the passing game this coming season and looks like he offers more upside than a Gabe Davis then I think you can move sideways in terms of what you look to bring in as WR2 for the short term.... because you have Diggs and Kincaid as your actual 1 and 2 in terms of targets. But long term you need someone who can be a WR1 beyond Diggs. And I still think the place you find that guy is in round 1 or 2 of the draft. 

[DasNootz]

49 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Feels like KC doesn’t need Chris Jones at all.

 

Also people rag on Beane for Boogie Basham, but KC traded DOWN to take Skyy Moore instead of Pickens and yikes he’s awful. 

Pickens went 2 picks before they traded up.

[newcam2012]

31 minutes ago, Beast said:

Their defense only gave up 14 points to a pretty decent offense.

 

Defense wasn’t KC’s issue last night.

I think KCs defense is going to be pretty good. That young secondary looks good. They really came into their own in last years playoffs. 

 

Also,  Nick Bolton looks legit. 

 

They need Jones badly. The starting Chiefs front really never got a lot of pressure.  It was more DBs blitzing. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by newcam2012

[Your Brown Eye]

His absence made such a huge difference out on the field

Edited September 8, 2023 by Your Brown Eye

[yall]

6 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Brutal, but that's the league.  

 

Important win for Detroit.  KC knows what they need to do going forward.  

Same thing happened to Josh with McKenzie last year but I don't recall everyone tripping over themselves to defend 17.

[Ya Digg?]

I think everyone understands the importance of Kielce to that team. Take away the top receiver from most teams and watch what happens to the QB though. Look at what happened to Josh once he got Diggs. Yes it was also Josh just continued to work hard and get better, but he also had a stud for a #1. 
 

Taking Way the best receiving TE in history is definitely going to have an effect on Mahomes

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, x-BillzeBubba said:

 

 

I thought he was in Nick Bolton's jock more than Mahomes's last night. Compared him to Fred Warner while watching back a play where Montgomery skipped right by him. 

 

I didn't even think Bolton played that well. 

[mannc]

The Chiefs are going to have to figure out what to do with Taylor at right tackle, too. I know Hutchinson is a good player but that was embarrassing.  Some officiating crews would have flagged him every play.  Teams are really going to try to exploit him.  

[newcam2012]

Just now, mannc said:

The Chiefs are going to have to figure out what to do with Taylor at right tackle, too. I know Hutchinson is a good player but that was embarrassing.  Some officiating crews would have flagged him every play.  Teams are really going to try to exploit him.  

I agree but why do I feel the Chiefs and Andy Reid will figure it out? 

 

In live time, I told my son I feel like I'm watching the Patriots all over again. 

[RobbRiddick]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea interestingly when KC lose and he is forced to come out of pom pom waving mode he actually is pretty on the money with his analysis of the problems. But it is like he does that for 1 day and then right back into "Mahomes, world domination baby!"

This is the problem with so many of these shows now. The hosts keep jabbering on about the team they support. I saw a clip of some show yesterday (Carton I think). Jesus, what a tool he is. He was sitting there with a giant Jets hat on, talking about how the Bills basically had no chance. Then you have Mike Greenberg wearing his Jets jersey on air. There's a clip from a few years ago where he asks his guests to rank the best QBs in the AFC East going into the 2020 season. When one of the guests chooses Allen instead of Darnold he walks off camera in mock disgust.

 

I know this is all meant to be good fun and I don't want to sound like some grumpy old man but it just stops me wanting to see any of these shows because there's no objectivity there. Even Brandt screaming and shouting about the Bills is annoying. But as people have said, that's the way to get ratings so you can't blame them I guess

[balln]

It’s amazing to me that the media and nbc give chiefs and mahommes every asterisk and every excuse when they lose 

 

that kc game looked like a lot of bills games last year. OL shaky / qb off platform all night. WR drops. Questionable coaching. Big players out 
 

 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

The Chiefs are going to have to figure out what to do with Taylor at right tackle, too. I know Hutchinson is a good player but that was embarrassing.  Some officiating crews would have flagged him every play.  Teams are really going to try to exploit him.  

As Chris Simms has repeatedly said (and I agree with him), o-line players across the board are getting more non-calls going their way these days because today’s defensive linemen are SUCH better athletes than before — and better athletes by a good ways than offensive linemen on average. They’re basically changing the rules to account for this disparity without actually officially changing them. I have come to accept it because at least I know the unwritten rules now.

3 minutes ago, balln said:

It’s amazing to me that the media and nbc give chiefs and mahommes every asterisk and every excuse when they lose 

 

that kc game looked like a lot of bills games last year. OL shaky / qb off platform all night. WR drops. Questionable coaching. Big players out 
 

 

Well, the asterisk is appropriate with regard to Mahomes last night. Mahomes did nothing wrong to lose that game. It was all on his bad receiving corps. That’s the truth.

Edited September 8, 2023 by dave mcbride

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

The Chiefs are going to have to figure out what to do with Taylor at right tackle, too. I know Hutchinson is a good player but that was embarrassing.  Some officiating crews would have flagged him every play.  Teams are really going to try to exploit him.  

 

@Zerovoltz - remember when I told you Taylor was an average right tackle.... when you were still insisting he was the answer at left tackle before Smith signed? 

 

In fairness I still think he is better than Andrew Wylie who played that spot last year for KC, so they have got experience working round a poor RT. But yea Taylor was brutal last night. He is what he is. A middle of the road RT who the Chiefs overpaid for. 

[Johnnycage46]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Loved Nick Wright in "Die Hard"....

 

Where...are my detonators?!

[mannc]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

As Chris Simms has repeatedly said (and I agree with him), o-line players across the board are getting more non-calls going their way these days because today’s defensive linemen are SUCH better athletes than before — and better athletes by a good ways than offensive linemen on average. They’re basically changing the rules to account for this disparity without actually officially changing them. I have come to accept it because at least I know the unwritten rules now.

Well, the asterisk is appropriate with regard to Mahomes last night. Mahomes did nothing wrong to lose that game. It was all on his bad receiving corps. That’s the truth.

I thought Mahomes was outstanding last night.  He played more than well-enough to win that game.  

[Mr. WEO]

57 minutes ago, Beast said:

Their defense only gave up 14 points to a pretty decent offense.

 

Defense wasn’t KC’s issue last night.

 

 

Exactly.  A few dropped passes were the difference.

[CoudyBills]

6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Meanwhile complete melt down at chiefsplanet.com. If this was the other futbol Toney wouldn’t survive the night. 

Omg, the Dan Campbell thread.  If all the posters in that thread were set on fire today the world would be better off.  Wow, what douchebags.

[BigPappy]

Honestly, KC losing is just icing on the cake after douche bag Nick Wright showed off his tattoo. I don't care what team he loves\supports, I can't stand his on air personality. It's so cringy. I miss the days of objective analysis. Something you seem to only get from the "old timers" now a days. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by BigPappy

[BillsDad51]

Goff threw for 250 last night but Lions offense didn't look as good as it did last year. Was it Chiefs' defense? Or is Goff regressing back to his old form?

[RunTheBall]

24 minutes ago, mannc said:

I thought Mahomes was outstanding last night.  He played more than well-enough to win that game.  

Mahomes looked like Josh last year needing to do it all himself and hoping someone besides himself makes a play once in a while

[DaggersEOD]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Twas a joke.

 

If it ‘twas, it twould be…twerrific!

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, DaggersEOD said:

 

If it ‘twas, it twould be…twerrific!

Now i need to watch Men in Tights again.  Such a great movie.

[BBFL]

They win that game if Toney and Sky Moore don’t have a meltdown all game. KC were certainly less efficient but Reid’s scheme and play designs had guys wide open several times but couldn’t be executed. Some times you just play worse than the other team even if you’re better… not even remotely close for concern… yet. 
 

If Travis is out for a prolonged period and those 2 don’t have some form of “bounce back” production next week then they’re in trouble.