The 2023 - ??? Edmunds Report

[Einstein]

Just now, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

You didn't watch the same game I watched then... his pass coverage was ABYSMAL and he was exposed.

Are you speaking of the Bears game? Edmunds did look quite bad yesterday. I am talking about his time with the Bills.

[Royale with Cheese]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Sure but it’s not like the Scarecrow was the best ever at even that. 
 

At a certain point, these things add up.

 

Well yeah, Edmunds wasn't instinctual like Bernard, it's very apparent.

 

I think the best thing Edmunds was for was making the QB throw a little higher over the middle, block the vision of the QB and actually could go sideline to sideline for a tackle.  

 

Overall, Edmunds is a decent linebacker in which his size makes him better than he actually is.  Bernard looks like he could be above solid or if he continues to grow....a strong starter?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Just now, Einstein said:

Are you speaking of the Bears game? Edmunds did look quite bad yesterday. I am talking about his time with the Bills.

 

My bad I apologize...

 

...Mondays...

 

😁

[GaryPinC]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I understand it as a "relative to draft selection and contract" argument.

 

I do wonder if Milano will have a great season after Bernard fully settles in as there's no more Edmunds brain farts to worry about.

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I wouldn’t say he sucked in Buffalo but he definitely sucked yesterday.  I watched that game and keyed on him and he literally was just standing around.  Didn’t see him run full speed a single time including on a delayed blitz when he pushed into the lineman with zero violence or tenacity.  Something is wrong with him physically or mentally.  He wasn’t explosive here but he was better than that.

Given KC's history with the Bills I wouldn't be surprised that part of their gameplan involved taking advantage of his weaknesses.  He was probably frequently confused yesterday.

[Virgil]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

Bills fans are a fickle bunch.  First, everyone is saying how much the team will miss Edmunds, now it’s suddenly “Edmunds sucks.”
 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone was saying we would miss Edmunds as much as they were saying we need a MLB.  For me personally, I just wanted to have someone competent at the position that wasn't going to potentially cost us games.

[AuntieEm]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

You think we routinely had a top 5 defense with a MLB that sucks? Come on...

Yea he was just a passenger not really one of the players that did anything but look big and scared QB from throwing in his general area but once they learned he was just scary looking and play was nothing special they learned to manipulate him out of their intended plays path.  

43 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

No he didn’t.

 

He is not worth $18M and the Bills wisely let him walk and i’m very happy with Bernard, but Edmunds didn’t suck.

 He is the definition of suck if he doesn't add anything bit look scary then you pay him just a tad over vet minimum not premium salary for a playmaker.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

But isn't that the point. If you are incapable of making splash plays in coverage.... what are you even doing in coverage?  You aren't really a deterrent.

 

I mean teams did definitely throw away from him at times.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I wouldn’t say he sucked in Buffalo but he definitely sucked yesterday.  I watched that game and keyed on him and he literally was just standing around.  Didn’t see him run full speed a single time including on a delayed blitz when he pushed into the lineman with zero violence or tenacity.  Something is wrong with him physically or mentally.  He wasn’t explosive here but he was better than that.

 

I didn't watch KC eating the Bears alive. Wasn't sure who that would be fun for.

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

No he didn’t.

 

He is not worth $18M and the Bills wisely let him walk and i’m very happy with Bernard, but Edmunds didn’t suck.

 

Mahomes moved Edmunds around with his eyes like a cat with a laser pointer every time when he was with the Bills. Did it again yesterday as a Bear. He absolutely owns Edmunds. If you need to get past KC he can't be on your team, because against that guy in particular, he SUCKS.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Mahomes moved Edmunds around with his eyes like a cat with a laser pointer every time when he was with the Bills. Did it again yesterday as a Bear. He absolutely owns Edmunds. If you need to get past KC he can't be on your team, because against that guy in particular, he SUCKS.

 

That is funny.

[DasNootz]

Next Gen stat of the game: The Chiefs targeted Bears LB Tremaine Edmunds 11 times in coverage. Edmunds allowed 10 receptions, 88 yards and one TD.

[DuckyBoys]

He wasn't worth the move up in the draft and waiting for hi to develop made it more painful .  Media kept hyping him up which made Bills fans more salty when the big plays never came  I'd say he was a middle of the road player that got roasted due to his draft spot and the hype due to his young age and his unusual size.  I'm just happy the linebacker core has been great thus far and were seeing the splash plays we rarely saw from Tremaine

[biggerdaddynj]

21 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

He wasn't worth the move up in the draft and waiting for hi to develop made it more painful .  Media kept hyping him up which made Bills fans more salty when the big plays never came  I'd say he was a middle of the road player that got roasted due to his draft spot and the hype due to his young age and his unusual size.  I'm just happy the linebacker core has been great thus far and were seeing the splash plays we rarely saw from Tremaine

He’s far worse than the Cody Ford moves in the draft due his 1st round status but it’s still two major black marks on McBeane.  I give credit where it’s due but you can’t ignore the bad ones especially with valuable draft capital. Before the hate comes my way, I’m a big fan of the way overdue change in the culture and I give credit for the good moves (still hated all the collecting of the Carolina scrap heap— understand theory but that’s only half ability to execute is the other half—Kelvin, Star (based on how much we paid),etc…. PLEASE DO NOT LABEL ME A HATER, I LOVE THE ORGANIZATION (especially not bringing back Frazier!).

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

I don't think anyone was saying we would miss Edmunds as much as they were saying we need a MLB.  For me personally, I just wanted to have someone competent at the position that wasn't going to potentially cost us games.

There were many on Twitter anyways who kept posting the Wolverine meme with Edmunds in the frame.  I thought that was a bit much 

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, DasNootz said:

Next Gen stat of the game: The Chiefs targeted Bears LB Tremaine Edmunds 11 times in coverage. Edmunds allowed 10 receptions, 88 yards and one TD.

Wouldn’t be surprised if Edmunds was one of the main reasons Mahomes felt he matched up better against the Bills than Bengals…👍

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

He wasn't worth the move up in the draft and waiting for hi to develop made it more painful .  Media kept hyping him up which made Bills fans more salty when the big plays never came  I'd say he was a middle of the road player that got roasted due to his draft spot and the hype due to his young age and his unusual size.  I'm just happy the linebacker core has been great thus far and were seeing the splash plays we rarely saw from Tremaine

This is where I grew frustrated.  What got to me is how the media (and then fans) would always use his age as an excuse.  You could have a valid criticism of Edmunds and the response would be “he’s only 21.”   Perhaps his age was relevant for his first few seasons but he didn’t change that much as a player over the 5 year span.

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

I've been hard lately on the front office for some of their picks, the early 3 rounds past the 2018 first round on, but I do have to give credit where credit is due.

 

Deciding to sign Oliver, deciding not to sign Edmunds, and now The 'Nard Dawg's start, boy...

 

...that is some mighty fine witch-craftory right there.

 

 

[3rdand12]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:54 PM, Ya Digg? said:

What you don’t love to continually talk about a guy who’s no longer here and the Bills found a suitable replacement? If this thread sticks around all year I think this will outrank the Skelton for Mario thread for worst of all time. 

well , I kinda do

 But Bernard just had a game where i have something very positive to focus on. So going to run with that for awhile 

[3rdand12]

23 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Edmunds has never played with an all out hustle and fierceness. I remember against the Chiefs in, I believe the first playoff game, he was jogging as Tyreek caught a pass and almost went for a TD before our DT ran him down (name escapes me). I believe that was the play, someone correct me if I’m wrong.
I pointed out how Edmunds looked like he was going half speed on the replay before his weak tackle attempt and got eye roll emojis. It was there my criticism of him really picked up. 

learned it from Gilmore ?

 

Ha I went there !!

 

 tell me its not true though

 

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, babulator said:

I saw it mentioned earlier in the thread, but that play was brutal. The misreads by him were pretty awful and he just seems to lack the necessary awareness to be THAT guy.

I had always thought as MLB calling the plays, and often wondered is Tremaine just stupid. Or lazy. Or both.
No way he could not be an impact player with his size and position. and the when he was drafted to boot !

 

I think he might be not as keen as the others

There

 I said that too

 

and yes I have always thought these things of the dear Boy

 can we move on now ?

9 hours ago, Einstein said:

You think we routinely had a top 5 defense with a MLB that sucks? Come on...

Yes. Obviously

 Offenses figured him out

[3rdand12]

9 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

 

I do wonder if Milano will have a great season after Bernard fully settles in as there's no more Edmunds brain farts to worry about.

Given KC's history with the Bills I wouldn't be surprised that part of their gameplan involved taking advantage of his weaknesses.  He was probably frequently confused yesterday.

I am really beginning to like you.

 Bernard is likely to have ups and downs. But I feel McD really has something he can work with, as compared to work around in Edmunds.

 

Tremaine's play with the Bears show how much Bills were compensating.

 

Milano et al must be stoked

[streetkings01]

32 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

learned it from Gilmore ?

 

Ha I went there !!

 

 tell me its not true though

 

Gilmore was actually a very good corner for us. Got beat occasionally and would put in on the safety lol, but he was a lot better then Bills fans gave him credit for.

[FireChans]

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:54 PM, Ya Digg? said:

What you don’t love to continually talk about a guy who’s no longer here and the Bills found a suitable replacement? If this thread sticks around all year I think this will outrank the Skelton for Mario thread for worst of all time. 

 

To me, it isnt about Edmunds specifically or personally. Like I mentioned up-thread, his entire situation is a great case study in drafting, development, defensive schemes, player talent, contract structuring, and team building. Take his name out and I'd still be interested in discussing it due to all of those relevant topics.

 

For those of us that like the FO/GM side of the NFL as much as we like the games, he gives us plenty to talk about.

 

And in no way am I bagging on him, nor propping him up for that matter.

 

When you have a front row seat to a young, high-potential, physical anomaly specimen coming into and navigating a career in the NFL, some fans are going to want to discuss it all the way through.

 

If that offends you, no one will make you participate in the discussions.

 

Go Bills! 👍

[Success]

The "bingo card" thing is overplayed at this point.  But, gotta say - I didn't have "Bernard being an upgrade over Edmunds" on my bingo card.

 

Beane is one of the top GM's in the league at this point, imo.  

 

 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

18 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

I had always thought as MLB calling the plays, and often wondered is Tremaine just stupid. Or lazy. Or both.
No way he could not be an impact player with his size and position. and the when he was drafted to boot !

 

I think he might be not as keen as the others

There

 I said that too

 

and yes I have always thought these things of the dear Boy

 can we move on now ?

Yes. Obviously

 Offenses figured him out

Actually, I recall reading about his high intelligence level and met someone who knew him well in college who echoed the same thing. 

 

His issue was lack of football instincts, not intelligence.  You can't teach or necessarily even learn to have athletic instincts. I.e. knowing where to go a fraction of a second sooner than the other guy. Edmunds had to process on an intellectual level instead of an instinctual level. That works, but it's slow at the NFL level. 

 

If you think he's lazy, how did he get a body like a Greek god? That doesn't just happen without a lot of work. Never heard a peep about his work ethic being anything other than excellent while in Buffalo. 

Hey, I am glad he's gone too and am happy with Bernard so far. But that doesn't justify smearing the guy without anything to back it up. 

 

 

[WideNine]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:12 PM, FireChans said:

Edmunds report update:

 

It’s early, but Edmunds is getting picked apart by Mahomes/Kelce and the rest of the Chiefs, per usual. The Scarecrow isn’t scarecrowing, again. 

 

Some of that I have always thought was because Tremaine was probably always physically gifted, he certainly was for his age, so he likely was playing below his weight class most of his life. He could make up for a general lack of instincts for how plays are developing where his gap and zone assignments were because he could easily follow and QBs eyes and close to that area or make up ground if he was out of position.

Now that he is playing against more skilled competition the muscle memory needed to anticipate and be sound with positioning and leverage are not there. What I often saw in our games vs Mahomes is that he was easily moving Edmunds around with his eyes and opening up windows that he could exploit over and over. I think I jokingly said at the time that he was working him like he had a joystick.

That, I think is the difference between someone with a good football IQ and instincts vs someone who has probably been overly reliant on their size and range. It's a theory and folks are welcomed to blast away. 

My hope is that Bernard stays healthy and continues to grow and show us the splash plays we have been craving from that MLB position for many years to come.

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I was an outspoken Edmunds critic for years and I have no reason to defend him. That said the Bears organization now looks like the worst in NFL. Their DC just quit after an FBI raid of his home. Maybe there is more to this story 

[Jauronimo]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:46 PM, JaCrispy said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if Edmunds was one of the main reasons Mahomes felt he matched up better against the Bills than Bengals…👍

I would be.  Pretty sure Mahomes would rather face the Bengals because their defensive line gets after the QB and they play more physical.  Our defense was soft after all the injuries.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Jauronimo

[3rdand12]

19 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Gilmore was actually a very good corner for us. Got beat occasionally and would put in on the safety lol, but he was a lot better then Bills fans gave him credit for.

I was referring specifically to effort ie tackling

1 hour ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Actually, I recall reading about his high intelligence level and met someone who knew him well in college who echoed the same thing. 

 

His issue was lack of football instincts, not intelligence.  You can't teach or necessarily even learn to have athletic instincts. I.e. knowing where to go a fraction of a second sooner than the other guy. Edmunds had to process on an intellectual level instead of an instinctual level. That works, but it's slow at the NFL level. 

 

If you think he's lazy, how did he get a body like a Greek god? That doesn't just happen without a lot of work. Never heard a peep about his work ethic being anything other than excellent while in Buffalo. 

Hey, I am glad he's gone too and am happy with Bernard so far. But that doesn't justify smearing the guy without anything to back it up. 

 

 

Good points and well spoken.

I was asking the question though. Not making a statement

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

Some of that I have always thought was because Tremaine was probably always physically gifted, he certainly was for his age, so he likely was playing below his weight class most of his life. He could make up for a general lack of instincts for how plays are developing where his gap and zone assignments were because he could easily follow and QBs eyes and close to that area or make up ground if he was out of position.

Now that he is playing against more skilled competition the muscle memory needed to anticipate and be sound with positioning and leverage are not there. What I often saw in our games vs Mahomes is that he was easily moving Edmunds around with his eyes and opening up windows that he could exploit over and over. I think I jokingly said at the time that he was working him like he had a joystick.

That, I think is the difference between someone with a good football IQ and instincts vs someone who has probably been overly reliant on their size and range. It's a theory and folks are welcomed to blast away. 

My hope is that Bernard stays healthy and continues to grow and show us the splash plays we have been craving from that MLB position for many years to come.

 

So   Edmunds could be "dumb" football wise eh ?

 

LOL ! /s

[AuntieEm]

On 9/25/2023 at 3:47 PM, JohnNord said:

This is where I grew frustrated.  What got to me is how the media (and then fans) would always use his age as an excuse.  You could have a valid criticism of Edmunds and the response would be “he’s only 21.”   Perhaps his age was relevant for his first few seasons but he didn’t change that much as a player over the 5 year span.

Thinking some people are confusing maturity with chronological age.  Edmunds is young and immature.  Immature in the sense that he believes all the hype he grew up hearing how much a stud player he is yadda yadda yadda... so in his mind he is worth the payday when he has no concept of value earned.  I'm sure he and his brothers were spoiled growing up with his father making nfl money  so I doubt any òf them had to do any real work.  Will he ever play to his potential?  Very doubtful because I see it as edmund is a spoiled entitled athlete and been that way for so long its ingrained in him too deeply.

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

So   Edmunds could be "dumb" football wise eh ?

 

LOL ! /s

 

I refuse to be baited into saying what I really think 😁

 

Moving on feels good and there are a few early posts in this thread regarding Bernard that have not aged very well. I don't expect last week's play, every week. But if the kid can stay healthy I think we will be "OK" at MLB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WotAGuy]

7 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

Thinking some people are confusing maturity with chronological age.  Edmunds is young and immature.  Immature in the sense that he believes all the hype he grew up hearing how much a stud player he is yadda yadda yadda... so in his mind he is worth the payday when he has no concept of value earned.  I'm sure he and his brothers were spoiled growing up with his father making nfl money  so I doubt any òf them had to do any real work.  Will he ever play to his potential?  Very doubtful because I see it as edmund is a spoiled entitled athlete and been that way for so long its ingrained in him too deeply.

Wow. All your assumptions say way more about you than Edmunds, that’s for sure. 

[AuntieEm]

13 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Wow. All your assumptions say way more about you than Edmunds, that’s for sure. 

Well I'm of a generation that saw previous generations that were èxtremeky hard working and didn't complain just got it done.  

 

 

No one can argue that Edmunds has the physical attributes that if combined with just a little better effort could have him be the best player in the league.  Anyone that wastes such gifts is generally either an idiot as some suggest  or lazy.  Either way he's making money he isn't earning I think he even is smart enough to know that which is why I think so  little if him.  You keep making excuses for  him, he's certainly used to making excuses in his own mind as well no doubt.

Edited September 26, 2023 by AuntieEm

[DJB]

He’s still ass.

 

His biggest issue is he’s plays the game like a wildflower and is afraid to stick his nose in there and get dirty.

 

That and he lacks instincts 

 

All the physical gifts but no heart and no brain 

Edited September 26, 2023 by DJB

[BillsfaninSB]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I was an outspoken Edmunds critic for years and I have no reason to defend him. That said the Bears organization now looks like the worst in NFL. Their DC just quit after an FBI raid of his home. Maybe there is more to this story 

Whether one liked him or not as a player, practically this entire message board knew Edmunds limitations. 
 

Not sure why trained football professionals didn’t see it. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

11 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Whether one liked him or not as a player, practically this entire message board knew Edmunds limitations. 
 

Not sure why trained football professionals didn’t see it. 

Have you been on this message board for long? Those of us that criticized Edmunds for years were routinely told how we didn't understand his role on the defense, how he called the defense, and how he took away so many throws in the middle. We were routinely dismissed when we pointed out his tackles 8 yards down field and his lack of big plays. 

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Have you been on this message board for long? Those of us that criticized Edmunds for years were routinely told how we didn't understand his role on the defense, how he called the defense, and how he took away so many throws in the middle. We were routinely dismissed when we pointed out his tackles 8 yards down field and his lack of big plays. 

Ya literally the bills biggest podcast host (Joe Marino), told us how “good” Edmunds was for the last 3 years.

 

I would say most bills media and maybe even half the board here , really liked edmunds 

Edited September 26, 2023 by BillsFan130

[streetkings01]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I was referring specifically to effort ie tackling

Good points and well spoken.

I was asking the question though. Not making a statement

Gilmore was actually a decent tackler……his issue was he threw his shoulder into guys instead of wrapping up. Worked on receivers, not so much on RBs.