To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[BuffaloBillyG]

31 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

That’s a good point. My personal opinion is he will be gone in your scenario. For those that think Pegula doesn’t have the balls to fire him I say you don’t become a billionaire by being a nice guy all the time.  Winning is winning-boardroom or on the field and you need the right team 

 

What I think “happened” was that McD wanted Frazier out last year and was overruled.  This year he got his way but was told you’re handling the D and this is your chance to prove yourself correct. 
 

if this year isn’t successful( by however Pegula measures it) McD is gone 

Of course, this is just my opinion but I believe the two bolded parts go hand in hand.

 

Fans judge by championships. Most owners judge by the finances. NFL owners are a billionaires club that can print their own money. Sure, they may enjoy the one year of bragging rights over their buddies...but ultimately it always comes down to the cash.

 

With Buffalo opening a new stadium they will not be making sweeping changes to the staff unless the wheels come completely off and people won't pay for the product.

[Bill Lewes]

I'm not sure how these conversations get started.

The Bills have the second winningest record during the last 5 years
The drought was broken and playoffs 5 of his 6 years
We complained about the D and DC is gone (but now we're sad the DC left and it's all McDs fault?)
Our QB1 is on the cover of Madden (but now we need an offensive mind to lead us?)
Our (undeniably outwardly emotional) (Diva?) WR1 sparks another PR/Socialmedia mini-storm (but we're frustrated by how the HC handles it?)
McD's been nothing but buttoned up and professional (but one over interpreted slip of the tongue during a presser and he's a drama queen?)

I'm no Pollyanna or McD apologist   (BUT I cannot wait for the season - or at least training camp - to get here!)
 

[HardyBoy]

To five toughest schedule in the league, honestly don't even know if missing the playoffs would be a regression. 

 

I think people severely underestimate the amount of randomness that comes with a 17 game schedule, football in general and a single game playoff format.

 

You need to have a chance to get in every year and then you need to get lucky...way too many people confusing outcome with process here, and I'm not talking McDs definition of process. Don't give me the only outcomes matter, when those outcomes are so largely based on the bounce of a non-spherical ball.

 

Before all the "well Josh Allen" crowd come at me with "well Josh Allen"...JP Losman in a lot of ways was very similar to Josh Allen physically and mentally. That coaching staff and front office completely broke JP Losman.

 

Philip Rivers was another generational QB, how did firing Marty S work out for them? That was a gigantic reactionary error and happened because of focusing on small sample size outcomes.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

 

It's not our job to do the research and to find "the guy". You have to go through individual assistants and available HCs and assess them and rank them first. None of us have that expertise.

 

All we know is that the ultimate goal of the franchise is to win a Super Bowl, and so far with the talent we have it is unacceptable to not even get to the Super Bowl, much less win it. We DO know that at least.

 

He's in a make or break year, and we'll see what happens come early 2024. You can't just shrug your shoulders and say "who's the guy?" and retain a coach that is not performing at the standard expected with the talent we have. That's not what winners do, that's what people that accept the ineffectual status quo do.

Edited June 18, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[oldmanfan]

The hardest thing in sports is to predict who will or will not work out as a HC/manager.  The required skill set is different than that needed for an assistant coach or coordinator.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. No. No. Harbaugh is definitively not a winner. If my team was 3-13 I'd hire Harbaugh tomorrow. He is a turnaround expert. He isn't a winner. 6 bowl losses in a row (including a CFP semi final to TC freaking U). A Superbowl loss to a less talented team and two NFCCG losses (again one of those to a clearly less talented team). 

 

It may well be that McDermott fits best in that turnaround specialist category too but if we are replacing him then doing so with someone even more proven to blow it in the biggest games does not make much sense to me.

He won the Orange Bowl at Stanford when he had Luck. He's never had a QB like Allen at Michigan or San Francisco. 

He beat Green Bay and Rodgers on the road in the playoffs. McD has yet to win a single road playoff game.

And nobody ever accused his teams of being soft.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

 

 

I am often reactionary to a fault. I can't get 13 seconds out of my head nor the playoff performances of the recent years. Perhaps, I'm too short sighted to see a positive long term prognosis. 

 

 

Go Bills!!!

Yes and yes. 
 

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He won the Orange Bowl at Stanford when he had Luck. He's never had a QB like Allen at Michigan or San Francisco. 

He beat Green Bay and Rodgers on the road in the playoffs. McD has yet to win a single road playoff game.

And nobody ever accused his teams of being soft.

He’s awful

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

i mean damn... 

@teef

This **** Place

 

It's funny too because the OP's original question was who would be a better candidate, forget the fact that there are never any guarantees about that.  

 

Them it goes into another debate as to whether or not he should go.  LOL

 

Perhaps the most hilarious thing about all of it is that not one of us has a single shred of control or influence in the outcome.

 

The reality is that McD could make a huge leap forward in coaching progress, but he could also regress significantly too.  

 

None of anyone here knows with any certainty.  Nothing's changing 'til after the season of anything changes at all.  We're all going to be bitching at the TV over bad calls and bad plays, and conversely cheering our brains out when we succeed.  

 

Getting back to the original proposition,ho knows who the best choice would be if it were to happen.  The season will provide all those answers.  

 

 

[BarleyNY]

50 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

To five toughest schedule in the league, honestly don't even know if missing the playoffs would be a regression. 

 

I think people severely underestimate the amount of randomness that comes with a 17 game schedule, football in general and a single game playoff format.

 

You need to have a chance to get in every year and then you need to get lucky...way too many people confusing outcome with process here, and I'm not talking McDs definition of process. Don't give me the only outcomes matter, when those outcomes are so largely based on the bounce of a non-spherical ball.

 

Before all the "well Josh Allen" crowd come at me with "well Josh Allen"...JP Losman in a lot of ways was very similar to Josh Allen physically and mentally. That coaching staff and front office completely broke JP Losman.

 

Philip Rivers was another generational QB, how did firing Marty S work out for them? That was a gigantic reactionary error and happened because of focusing on small sample size outcomes.

 

I agree that winning a SB is very difficult and that some luck is always involved. But that’s exactly why having a HC who is up to the task in the big moments is so important. He can’t choke them away. It’s too difficult and too much has to go your way to even have a chance. Coaches don’t get too many chances with that before they lose the confidence of their players. 

 

You have to be kidding me with the Marty S and Phillip Rivers comment. Rivers’ and Bernie Kosar’s careers were both wasted under Marty S. In San Diego his replacement, Norv Turner, was cut for the same mold and finished wasting Rivers’ useful years. I certainly believe we can do better than Turner. There’s no guarantee of hitting on any HC hire, but that doesn’t mean you keep one that you have to hope figures out how to win a big game. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

 

Exactly the list of failures is much longer than the list of successes in new HC hires

 

 

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

He’s the only reason I would’ve been ok with firing McDermott after last season.  I don’t think McD deserved to get fired and I think he’s a good coach.  I just think Johnson might just the perfect fit for Josh allen.  

 

 That may be great if we were playing tennis and only person participating.  But there's 52 other who he also needs to be the perfect or at least close to it fit.  You want to hire him as a QB coach great.  I realize QB is the most important position far and away but hiring a HC for that reason is likely not a smart overall choice.

 

 

10 hours ago, Chaos said:

I didn't know who Sean McVay was (other than John McVay's grandson), Nick Sirianis or Zac Taylor were before they became head coaches.  All have had more playoff success than McDermott.   I doubt you knew who any of those guys were.   I doubt you were banging the drum to hire Sean McDermott.  So can we all agree to not pretend we know the universe of potential head coaches, and are also certain none could be better than McDermott?

 

And I'll see you're McVay  and Taylor and raise you Matt Rhule and Kliff Kingsbury just to name a couple off the top of my head.  And one thing I'm 100% certain of I'd have more chips to bet against you  on the list of failures over successes.  That's a stretch to say they have more playoff success as Sirianni and Taylor both have had limited experience, only 2 seasons.  McVay has had more time and went from SB champs to 5-12 in one year.  That's pretty impressive! 

 

You're right in that no one was asking the Bills to hire McD when they did, he was an unknown and has worked out very well in the overall success of the team.  Just hasn't won a SB and who knows if he ever will.  It took Andy Reid 21 years to win one and probably plenty of mistakes along the way before he did win.  Lasted 14 years with Eagles with one SB appearance.

 

You're right to that no one knows that replacement for McD couldn't be better.  But the odds are not in the Bills favor as for every success there are probably about 3 failures.  So good chance the team could be worse off.  At best a new coach will bring in new schemes and have a decent amount of roster churn, salary cap hits, etc. and a maybe a down year or two.

 

[Buckets]

10 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

So NO coach can now be fired unless the team has a replacement already that is “absolutely, positively, 100% be better?”

When has that been the standard in any sport?  No coach would EVER be fired if you have to have the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ guarantee because you could never guarantee that.

 

Their are reasonable arguments one could make for McDermott not to be fired, the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ one is so stupid and definitely not one of them.

- Rex Ryan who was .500 with Bills and had been to 2 AFC Championship Games with Jets.  Was a certain DC from Panthers with no HC experience a “absolutely, positively, 100% better” choice?

 

- 10 Super Bowl winning coaches have later been fired.  Their replacements guaranteed to be better?

- Of the 11 coaches who won their 1st Super Bowl in season 7 or later (where McD is now) did so after being fired from previous team.  Having already been fired were they guaranteed to be better the who they replaced?

- 3 NBA coaches were fired in last month who had won recent NBA Championships.

 

Then why fire the guy you have if you don't have a guy in mind that would do better?

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Exactly the list of failures is much longer than the list of successes in new HC hires

 

 

 

 That may be great if we were playing tennis and only person participating.  But there's 52 other who he also needs to be the perfect or at least close to it fit.  You want to hire him as a QB coach great.  I realize QB is the most important position far and away but hiring a HC for that reason is likely not a smart overall choice.

 

 

 

And I'll see you're McVay  and Taylor and raise you Matt Rhule and Kliff Kingsbury just to name a couple off the top of my head.  And one thing I'm 100% certain of I'd have more chips to bet against you  on the list of failures over successes.  That's a stretch to say they have more playoff success as Sirianni and Taylor both have had limited experience, only 2 seasons.  McVay has had more time and went from SB champs to 5-12 in one year.  That's pretty impressive! 

 

You're right in that no one was asking the Bills to hire McD when they did, he was an unknown and has worked out very well in the overall success of the team.  Just hasn't won a SB and who knows if he ever will.  It took Andy Reid 21 years to win one and probably plenty of mistakes along the way before he did win.  Lasted 14 years with Eagles with one SB appearance.

 

You're right to that no one knows that replacement for McD couldn't be better.  But the odds are not in the Bills favor as for every success there are probably about 3 failures.  So good chance the team could be worse off.  At best a new coach will bring in new schemes and have a decent amount of roster churn, salary cap hits, etc. and a maybe a down year or two.

 

I wouldn’t want to hire him ONLY for Josh Allen.  I love his offense. Just like I loved shanahans and Mcvays.  Having an offensive HC calling plays would eliminate the possibility of having to replace our offensive play caller every year.   We’d never have to worry about the next play caller coming in and being worthy.  The offense (and Josh) would have consistency.  
 

again…. This is if mcdermott has another terrible playoff loss.  I feel our offensive game plans in the 20 and 22 losses were awful.  I felt our defenses in 20, 21 and 22 weren’t ready for any of the 3 games.  Maybe that’s on Frazier- maybe not.  We’ll find out soon enough and that’s why I gave him at least this year.  But only this year if we have another playoff debacle.  
 

if we lose in the playoffs this year, I want to see a well coached team.  If it resembles 20 and 22 I think it’ll be time to roll the dice on someone new.  That said….. I don’t think Beane will ever fire McD and we’d have to find a new GM as well.  It’s very complicated and might not be worth the risk.  I’m not saying that firing him would be the best idea, but replacing him with Johnson is a risk I’d be willing to take.  We can only put up so many playoff stinkers under one HC.  Accountability must be taken at some point.  
 

Being good is not always good enough. 

 

[Beast]

The best offensive coordinator or best defensive coordinator are far from a guaranteed solution. So much more goes into being a head coach.

 

The Bills have a hell of a head coach right now. Tinkering with that could be down right disastrous.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Beast

[GunnerBill]

50 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He won the Orange Bowl at Stanford when he had Luck. He's never had a QB like Allen at Michigan or San Francisco. 

He beat Green Bay and Rodgers on the road in the playoffs. McD has yet to win a single road playoff game.

And nobody ever accused his teams of being soft.

 

That Orange Bowl might remain his biggest win. 

[Billsflyer12]

11 minutes ago, Buckets said:

Then why fire the guy you have if you don't have a guy in mind that would do better?

Because you never know for 100% sure the new guy will be better, that can’t be the standard for change.  It isn’t in people’s own lives, nor should it be in sports.

 

If a coach is unsuccessful, or some some cases successful but as reached the peak of their ability then an organization may and should look for a new path.

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

It's not our job to do the research and to find "the guy". You have to go through individual assistants and available HCs and assess them and rank them first. None of us have that expertise.

 

All we know is that the ultimate goal of the franchise is to win a Super Bowl, and so far with the talent we have it is unacceptable to not even get to the Super Bowl, much less win it. We DO know that at least.

 

He's in a make or break year, and we'll see what happens come early 2024. You can't just shrug your shoulders and say "who's the guy?" and retain a coach that is not performing at the standard expected with the talent we have. That's not what winners do, that's what people that accept the ineffectual status quo do.

 

Its not shrugging your shoulders to say "who's the guy?", it is shrugging our shoulders and saying your mythical head coach who is going to come in and win a super bowl is just that - mythical.

 

Its all fun and games until next HC bombs it and gets fired too, and we go full rebuild and waste the 2nd half of Allen's career. 

 

There is zero reason we can't win now in the playoffs. This "McDermott can't do it" is just made up nonsense by people who want change for the sake of their imagination conjuring getting a HOF HC who will carry us through a dynasty.

 

Andy Reid has two decades of no Super Bowl winning HC playoff history until he won a super bowl.

Edited June 18, 2023 by What a Tuel

[Don Otreply]

Being that there are very few knuckleheads on this forum that are dim enough to want to fire McDermott,  what say we just ignore all their posts and watch them fade away. 
 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I wouldn’t want to hire him ONLY for Josh Allen.  I love his offense. Just like I loved shanahans and Mcvays.  Having an offensive HC calling plays would eliminate the possibility of having to replace our offensive play caller every year.   We’d never have to worry about the next play caller coming in and being worthy.  The offense (and Josh) would have consistency.  
 

again…. This is if mcdermott has another terrible playoff loss.  I feel our offensive game plans in the 20 and 22 losses were awful.  I felt our defenses in 20, 21 and 22 weren’t ready for any of the 3 games.  Maybe that’s on Frazier- maybe not.  We’ll find out soon enough and that’s why I gave him at least this year.  But only this year if we have another playoff debacle.  
 

if we lose in the playoffs this year, I want to see a well coached team.  If it resembles 20 and 22 I think it’ll be time to roll the dice on someone new.  That said….. I don’t think Beane will ever fire McD and we’d have to find a new GM as well.  It’s very complicated and might not be worth the risk.  I’m not saying that firing him would be the best idea, but replacing him with Johnson is a risk I’d be willing to take.  We can only put up so many playoff stinkers under one HC.  Accountability must be taken at some point.  
 

Being good is not always good enough. 

 

 

Granted while not as likely you could still have the same concerns on defense, having to potentially replace the play caller every year.

 

Many of the rumors, posts claim both Beane and Mcd report to Pegula directly and only he can fire either of them.  Don't know if this really is the truth or not, may find out one of these years.  But don't necessarily think firing McD means Beane is gone too.  In most cases the GM gets at least a 2nd try at a HC hire before the team figures out he may actually be the problem and he gets let go.  I think it Beanes case the roster he's put together is pretty solid so he'd get a pass.

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

Andy Reid has two decades of no Super Bowl winning HC playoff history until he won a super bowl.

 

If Andy Reid had Josh Allen, he wouldn't have lasted five seasons had he not at least gone to the Super Bowl.  

 

 

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Multiple year rebuild?..

 

Dolphins didn’t rebuild, with a far less talented and injury prone QB, under Mike McDaniel. 
 

If we underperform and/or come up short again in the Playoffs, I think the Pegula’s need to think long and hard about bringing in a new HC. 
 

AFC Championship Game is the minimum, imo, to potentially avoid this conversation.   And if we don’t win that game, it has to be a competitive game, not another Chiefs ‘20 or Bengals ‘22 fiasco. 
 

I hope it doesn’t get to that.. but if it does, what exactly are we holding on to him for?   We’ll have reached a point where we’ve seemingly plateaued as a franchise and risk him losing the locker room.  

 

A major rebuild wouldn't be necessary.  Competent drafting on the GM side would be.  On the coaching side, the simple avoidance of drastic errors, that quite frankly no coach that's ever coached a team to a Super Bowl win has ever made in the playoffs, and the proper utilization of the talent that currently exists on the team offensively is all that's needed here.  

 

Who knows, maybe the 7th time's the charm for McD.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

thread so fresh...

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That Orange Bowl might remain his biggest win. 

 

I'd argue his biggest wins are the recent wins he has had against Ohio State. They weren't post-season or bowl games but to take that program from where it was when he arrived to where it is now was quite an achievement. Michigan had become a joke and after thought. 

 

I don't think Jim Harbough is the right coach for the Bills but I do think he can be a good coach for another NFL team. Given where the Bills are now, a top team, I wouldn't want to take the risk of bringing him in.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Multiple year rebuild?..

 

Dolphins didn’t rebuild, with a far less talented and injury prone QB, under Mike McDaniel. 
 

If we underperform and/or come up short again in the Playoffs, I think the Pegula’s need to think long and hard about bringing in a new HC. 
 

AFC Championship Game is the minimum, imo, to potentially avoid this conversation.   And if we don’t win that game, it has to be a competitive game, not another Chiefs ‘20 or Bengals ‘22 fiasco. 
 

I hope it doesn’t get to that.. but if it does, what exactly are we holding on to him for?   We’ll have reached a point where we’ve seemingly plateaued as a franchise and risk him losing the locker room.  

 

The Dolphins are an interesting case.  They kept their DC (rare).  They kept their GM.

 

They made the playoffs.  But, they did it with the same record that *failed* to make the playoffs the previous two seasons under Flores.  It actually reminds me somewhat of the Bills first year under McDermott.

 

I don't think it's atypical to see a similar or better record the first year with a new HC.  The Dolphins saw a better record when they changed to Philbin from Sparano and Gase from Philbin.  The question is, what then? 

 

One could argue, given the offensive and defensive talent they lined up and the FA/trade acquisitions, they expected to take a step.

 

So we'll see, this season.  They just changed DCs to a guy in his 60s with 19 years of DC experience.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[Augie]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

Ask me after the season. 
 

Im hopeful he is the guy, and this discussion goes by the wayside, but this question is nonsensical in the middle of June. 
 

If the team makes a jump in the postseason, I think most of us will want to stay the course. 
 

If we win the Super Bowl, his job is safe for years. 
 

If not, I’d think most will advocate for an offensive guy.  The OC in Detroit comes to mind as an option off the top of my head. 

 

Disagree. So many people think we should get rid of the 14-4 coach from last season, they should have to provide a solution.  The constant complaining should be balanced with something productive. 

[Beck Water]

23 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

A major rebuild wouldn't be necessary.  Competent drafting on the GM side would be.  On the coaching side, the simple avoidance of drastic errors, that quite frankly no coach that's ever coached a team to a Super Bowl win has ever made in the playoffs

 

Andy Reid says "hi".  No, seriously - Andy Reid had that reputation as the great regular season coach who couldn't get it done in the big games.  The years blur together, but after one of the Chiefs playoff losses, Tony Dungy banged the table on prime time TV and opined "The Chiefs may win a Superbowl, but they won't win it with Andy Reid as their HC".

 

Speaking of which, Tony Dungy ought to know - he won a Superbowl in his 11th year as a HC.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you actually don't know enough details about all the Dungy and Reid losses in big games to be able to make that statement, but if you're challenged to "stand and deliver" on proving it, you'll turn about and say the person challenging you ought to prove that they did.

[What a Tuel]

 

38 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

If Andy Reid had Josh Allen, he wouldn't have lasted five seasons had he not at least gone to the Super Bowl.  

 

Who knows, maybe the 7th time's the charm for McD.  

 

 

Convenient excuse except you clearly don't give McD the same leeway. Maybe 7th time's a charm? McDermott had 5 years with Allen in the midst of a major rebuild and took us to the AFC Championship in year 3 of Allen.

 

Andy Reid was entrenched in Kansas City for 4 years before drafting Mahomes and even then Mahomes got to sit on the bench for a year to total 5 years of building. The roster itself was already a playoff roster as they consistently went to the playoffs.

 

You condense down McDermott and Beane having to do both at once (rebuild roster, and develop Allen), and you hopefully can quickly see they have accomplished quite a bit in this short time.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by What a Tuel

[78thealltimegreat]

13 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

Brian Griese the 49ers QB coach. Kellen Moore the OC out in San Diego was given a bad hand in Dallas. My personal favorite Ben Johnson the OC of the Detroit Lions….if he could that with Goff imagine him with Allen.

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Andy Reid says "hi".  No, seriously - Andy Reid had that reputation as the great regular season coach who couldn't get it done in the big games.  The years blur together, but after one of the Chiefs playoff losses, Tony Dungy banged the table on prime time TV and opined "The Chiefs may win a Superbowl, but they won't win it with Andy Reid as their HC".

 

Speaking of which, Tony Dungy ought to know - he won a Superbowl in his 11th year as a HC.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you actually don't know enough details about all the Dungy and Reid losses in big games to be able to make that statement, but if you're challenged to "stand and deliver" on proving it, you'll turn about and say the person challenging you ought to prove that they did.

 

I'm not talking about "choking."  I'm talking about making egregious errors.  

 

I'll admit that perhaps there's something out there that I'm unaware of.  I'll defer to your expertise or more knowledgeable disposition to point out to me, so that I can educate myself that is, to point out Reid's or Dungy's "13 Seconds" or otherwise repeatedly having his defense play 10-15 yards off the ball on critical short-yardage situations.  

 

I'm always game for updating myself.   Let me know please.  Thanks for your offer.  

 

 

[AZSanta]

McDermott has shown himself to be soft and seems to self destruct when situations arise like the 13 second debacle. His in game management is really bad. Calling timeouts at the wrong time, challenging and not challenging at the wrong time. Maybe he panics in these situations? I don't know but I don't think he has what it takes to bring a championship to Buffalo. We need a no nonsense tell it like it is kinda coach that isn't afraid to make mistakes and call people out for their mistakes. His Christian background probably makes him too nice to do things that are better for the team. His record with the Bills is great but honestly anyone would have a winning record with a Josh Allen type QB. 

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

The Pegulas were impressed, with Rex,

Bad things can happen, with a coaching hire.

Statistically the 2017 team wasnt any better than the Rex teams, we just had a series of calls and bounces go our way. 

[Solomon Grundy]

16 minutes ago, AZSanta said:

McDermott has shown himself to be soft and seems to self destruct when situations arise like the 13 second debacle. His in game management is really bad. Calling timeouts at the wrong time, challenging and not challenging at the wrong time. Maybe he panics in these situations? I don't know but I don't think he has what it takes to bring a championship to Buffalo. We need a no nonsense tell it like it is kinda coach that isn't afraid to make mistakes and call people out for their mistakes. His Christian background probably makes him too nice to do things that are better for the team. His record with the Bills is great but honestly anyone would have a winning record with a Josh Allen type QB. 

I wonder if Coach plays chess? Stratego?😎

[PBF81]

30 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

Convenient excuse except you clearly don't give McD the same leeway. Maybe 7th time's a charm? McDermott had 5 years with Allen in the midst of a major rebuild and took us to the AFC Championship in year 3 of Allen.

 

Andy Reid was entrenched in Kansas City for 4 years before drafting Mahomes and even then Mahomes got to sit on the bench for a year to total 5 years of building. The roster itself was already a playoff roster as they consistently went to the playoffs.

 

You condense down McDermott and Beane having to do both at once (rebuild roster, and develop Allen), and you hopefully can quickly see they have accomplished quite a bit in this short time.

 

No, not true at all.  I don't give McD the same leeway because of "13 Seconds," the Cincy defensive debacle, his feigning that he has little to do with it and otherwise not coming clean, the Diggs drama, which is likely far from over, etc. 

 

"13 Seconds" and the Cincy debacle is enough for me.  As I've said, those are high-school coaching errors, despite some spinning it that only the experts can know or whatever nonsense.  LOL  

 

Again, show me where Reid ever did something as egregious as "13 Seconds"?  I've asked this question, what now, a half-dozen times to varying people, and we have yet that it gets answered with a straight answer.  

 

The season's going to play out however it plays out, regardless of what anyone here says or thinks, let's wait and see and discuss further towards the end of the season.  Hopefully it'll work out so that I look like a moron.   

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Granted while not as likely you could still have the same concerns on defense, having to potentially replace the play caller every year.

 

Many of the rumors, posts claim both Beane and Mcd report to Pegula directly and only he can fire either of them.  Don't know if this really is the truth or not, may find out one of these years.  But don't necessarily think firing McD means Beane is gone too.  In most cases the GM gets at least a 2nd try at a HC hire before the team figures out he may actually be the problem and he gets let go.  I think it Beanes case the roster he's put together is pretty solid so he'd get a pass.

Fair points-  but DCs aren’t hired as HCs as often as OCs are.  It’s an offensive league and offensive HCs have been MUCH more successful than DCs in recent years.  Some may say it’s a trend. Some might say it’s the way of the nfl today.  Making sure 17 is firing on all cylinders >>>>> making sure the defense firing on all cylinders.  I don’t think it’s even a debate.  
 

Regarding the Beane/McD dynamic - I wouldn’t compare it to other situations.  Mcdermott chose his GM.  Not the other way around, which is usually the case.  We’ll just have to wait and see.  Or best case scenario, we win super bowls and they retire as Bills

[folz]

12 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Guy is a drama king. The culture has turned toxic. Superbowl this year or move on. We can find better. 

 

Ridiculous. How did he go from how he handled the Damar situation last year and all of his players, the media, and fans praising him for that, from every player talking about how great team chemistry is in Buffalo, and players wanting to return to the team (Cole, John Brown, Jordan P, Shaq, Poyer), etc. to a toxic culture? Because one, ONE, player, who I love, but has shown to be a bit of an out-spoken player in the past, had a bit of an issue about something? 

 

And Drama King? Please. Stefon and the media caused the drama, not McD. But he's a drama king because when a reporter specifically said, "how concerning is it?" He answered "very concerning." It's a loaded question. If he says he's not concerned then people are upset with him that he's not taking the Diggs situation seriously, if he answers that he's concerned, then he's creating drama. No doubt Stef had an issue that the team needed to address, but everything else was just media hype (because they want dramas to talk about). Or maybe it's because one former GM with a podcast is intimating that Frasier  left because McD is some dictator. Sounds to me more like a, "I wasn't fired, I quit" kind of thing...if even true or coming from Frasier in the first place.

 

 

11 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

So NO coach can now be fired unless the team has a replacement already that is “absolutely, positively, 100% be better?”

When has that been the standard in any sport?  No coach would EVER be fired if you have to have the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ guarantee because you could never guarantee that.

 

Well, that's taking it to the extreme. If you are talking standards, then yes, coaches get fired all of the time without the replacement being set, but most of those coaches were fired for having losing seasons, missing playoffs, etc.

 

I don't think that it is standard to fire a coach who just completed a three-year run of 13-3, 11-6, and 13-3 seasons. Would love to see an example of a coach who was fired immediately after a three-year run like that (my guess is that they are very few and far between).

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Since1981 said:

 “would another team hire Bills HC away?”  No. 
 

“would the bills hire 4 other HC if any choice?”   Yes. 
 

We don’t have a top 15 HC. We’d try many swings for top 15 QB. HC should be treated similarly 

 

These are your opinions, not facts.

 

If Terry fired Sean at the end of last season because he felt like some of you do, I guarantee that McDermott would have another HC gig either this year or next. A guy who turned around a team who was in a 17-year playoff funk to go to the playoffs 5 of 6 years, has a .639 win percentage, and headed the staff that drafted and developed Josh Allen. Easy hire for a number of teams.

 

When you say "the bills," who do you mean. Are we talking Terry and Beane? If so, I doubt there are many coaches that they would dump McDermott for (if any) at this point. 

 

Well you and Ross Tucker agree on that, but again, not a fact...just two opinions. Many people would have Sean McDermott as a top 10 coach in the league right now. Over the last 5 years, the Bills have the third best record in the NFL (only 1 win behind second place New Orleans).

 

 

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

You say "firing McD would be a huge gamble." Would it really? What makes you think that? 

 

You don't think a solid coach can win a lot of games with Allen as their QB? 

 

Do you think McD is irreplaceable? 

 

McD has consistently come up short come playoff time. Correct? Of course things could improve or get worse. There's no guarantee of either. 

 

Your premise of firing McD being a huge gamble isn't how I see it.

 

Imho, it's worth the risk because I'm not convinced McD will lead the Bills to the SB. I have a nice sample size to evaluate. 

 

In the last nine years, there were 114 playoff spots filled by teams. That means 114 chances for head coaches to "not come up short" and win a Super Bowl. But in those 9 years, only 6 Head Coaches have won a Super Bowl. That means 95% of head coaches who made the playoffs over the last nine years also came up short. 

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

It's a bit premature for this.  Let's see how the season plays out.  It's a foolish proposition to think that this is going to be another drama-free season given the Diggs situation, the murkiness as to exactly why Frasier left, Miller's status, White's status, Davis' status, Dorsey's coaching, McD calling the D AND head coaching, etc., and that we're a shoe-in for another division title and a trip to the AFC CG.

 

If it happens though we'll all be ecstatic.  If not, then there will be heightened criticism and unrest in the media and among fans.  

 

If McD did end up getting replaced, then I'm sure that they'd be looking at how things develop during the season and making a decision in November (to themselves) at the earliest, not prior to the start of training camp this current season.  

 

McD's set himself up to either succeed to a greater extent, or he's given himself enough rope to hang himself.  What he does depends upon him, not any of us.  

 

It seems highly unlikely that the sentiment remains the same as it is now.  It seems far likelier that he'll either cement the trust in him by our fanbase, or that things are going to start falling apart for him.

 

Most of us have our suspicions, but at the end of the season there isn't a Bills fan that wouldn't be ecstatic if he took us to and won the Super Bowl.  

 

 

Listen,  I root for Sean just as hard as I did Marv.  But there comes a time when you absolutely have to outcoach your opponent in high leverage games. Name me one game where McDermott implemented a tactical game plan that outschemed his counterpart.  Let's not kid ourselves friends, Josh Allen is the reason we win 10-13 games every year. Now if we had a Belichick,  Reid, Shanahan type to draw up a game plan, that would be enough to put us over the top. Unfortunately we have too many fans content with a Schottenheimer type coach.  "Just win in the regular season and we're good"........Call me crazy but my goal was always a Lombardi.  Not getting out of playoff droughts.

[section122]

I'd prefer a different less abstract question for the mcdermott bashers.  Which year did the Bills lose in the playoffs where they should have won the super bowl?

 

Even the 13 seconds game.  That was a divisional game they still had 2 more games to win and the Chiefs lost the next week at home to the Bengals.

 

So instead of hearing how he blew it I would really like to know which year was THE year 

[hondo in seattle]

We have a SB caliber QB.  But, IMHO, we haven't had a SB caliber roster.  And yet folks want to fire the HC for not getting to the SB.

 

Pre-McD, for 17 years long painful years, we didn't stand a chance of getting to the SB.   We finally found a coach who gets into the playoff dance.  We haven't won yet, but each year with McD we have hope.  We enjoy a possibility that we didn't have before.

 

Yet we want to fire the guy.  We'd rather roll the dice on a hot coordinator when history tells us most hot coordinators flame out as HCs.  

 

I've heard all the arguments but, personally, I don't get it. 

[AmishRifle]

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Listen,  I root for Sean just as hard as I did Marv.  But there comes a time when you absolutely have to outcoach your opponent in high leverage games. Name me one game where McDermott implemented a tactical game plan that outschemed his counterpart.  Let's not kid ourselves friends, Josh Allen is the reason we win 10-13 games every year. Now if we had a Belichick,  Reid, Shanahan type to draw up a game plan, that would be enough to put us over the top. Unfortunately we have too many fans content with a Schottenheimer type coach.  "Just win in the regular season and we're good"........Call me crazy but my goal was always a Lombardi.  Not getting out of playoff droughts.

Tactical game plan:  Regular season win at KC last season.  The defensive coverage call that forced an interception to end the game was fantastic.  Post game, Mahomes admitted that the call got him.  
 

Just providing an example as you requested above.  I like McDermott but am nudging closer to scrutinizing his performance as head coach.  I’m a fan of consistency and stability but Philly is a great example of coaching hires if you get it right.  I love the swagger that Sirianni brings.  McDermott is almost too corporate and buttoned up.

[Billsflyer12]

31 minutes ago, folz said:

 

I don't think that it is standard to fire a coach who just completed a three-year run of 13-3, 11-6, and 13-3 seasons. Would love to see an example of a coach who was fired immediately after a three-year run like that (my guess is that they are very few and far between

There are lots of coaches in many leagues who were fired after good seasons and great track records.

 

- Milwaukee Bucks just fired their coach who won them a Championship after getting them the #1 seed in this year playoffs but losing 1st rd.

- Bayern Munich fired their coach mid season while in 1st place while in a 11 years straight of league Championships streak

- Eagles have fired 2 coaches in the past 10 years that both had accomplished more then McD

- Marty Schottenheimer (who many compare McD with) was fired after a 14-4 record but poor playoff performance

- HOF coach Tony Dungy was fired from Bucs after making playoffs

- Bruce Boudreau was fired right after winning the Presidents Trophy in NHL

Edited June 18, 2023 by Billsflyer12

[JerseyBills]

Been saying the exact same thing! 

 

McD has racked up 41 wins including playoffs last 3 years , that's elite and would definitely get a HC job if fired

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Listen,  I root for Sean just as hard as I did Marv.  But there comes a time when you absolutely have to outcoach your opponent in high leverage games. Name me one game where McDermott implemented a tactical game plan that outschemed his counterpart.  Let's not kid ourselves friends, Josh Allen is the reason we win 10-13 games every year. Now if we had a Belichick,  Reid, Shanahan type to draw up a game plan, that would be enough to put us over the top. Unfortunately we have too many fans content with a Schottenheimer type coach.  "Just win in the regular season and we're good"........Call me crazy but my goal was always a Lombardi.  Not getting out of playoff droughts.

 

I fully agree, but my point is that nothing's going to change prior to the end of the season, and what I was referring to as "being premature," was which coach(es) we should go after.  I'm also allowing for what you and I consider to be an incredibly unlikely scenario where McD for some unbeknownst and unforeseen reason all of a sudden becomes the coach that he hasn't been to date.  

 

Otherwise, it stands to reason that several other great coaching candidates will emerge as well in addition to the handful that are now spoken about as being "next in line" kinda thing.  

 

For better or for worse, we're stuck with what we have.  Differing opinions aside, we're all going to be rooting for the team no matter the circumstances.  I really do believe, strongly, that the reality of the situation is going to become painfully clear as the season wears on.  But we'll see what happens.  

 

I wish there weren't so much seeming animosity here over simple disagreements as to things of this nature.