To all the Fire McDermott Posters, a follow up question..

[ChicagoRic]

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by ChicagoRic

[SCBills]

Ask me after the season. 
 

Im hopeful he is the guy, and this discussion goes by the wayside, but this question is nonsensical in the middle of June. 
 

If the team makes a jump in the postseason, I think most of us will want to stay the course. 
 

If we win the Super Bowl, his job is safe for years. 
 

If not, I’d think most will advocate for an offensive guy.  The OC in Detroit comes to mind as an option off the top of my head. 

[GoBills808]

Ben Johnson

 

Fyi 'the next guy might be worse' is not a ringing endorsement 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Ben Johnson

 

Fyi 'the next guy might be worse' is not a ringing endorsement 

He’s the only reason I would’ve been ok with firing McDermott after last season.  I don’t think McD deserved to get fired and I think he’s a good coach.  I just think Johnson might just the perfect fit for Josh allen.  

[billsbackto81]

8 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Ask me after the season. 
 

Im hopeful he is the guy, and this discussion goes by the wayside, but this question is nonsensical in the middle of June. 
 

If the team makes a jump in the postseason, I think most of us will want to stay the course. 
 

If we win the Super Bowl, his job is safe for years. 
 

If not, I’d think most will advocate for an offensive guy.  The OC in Detroit comes to mind as an option off the top of my head. 

Tell that to Doug Pedersen.😂

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

He’s the only reason I would’ve been ok with firing McDermott after last season.  I don’t think McD deserved to get fired and I think he’s a good coach.  I just think Johnson might just the perfect fit for Josh allen.  

In not thrilled w McDermott but I don't think he needs to be fired yet

 

But if this guy was available and I was pegula I'd have a hard time not pulling the trigger

[Airseven]

16 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Ask me after the season. 

Indeed. Not in the sense of the Bills possibly getting over the hump this season, mind you, but in terms of identifying viable candidates.

[Chaos]

23 minutes ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

I didn't know who Sean McVay was (other than John McVay's grandson), Nick Sirianis or Zac Taylor were before they became head coaches.  All have had more playoff success than McDermott.   I doubt you knew who any of those guys were.   I doubt you were banging the drum to hire Sean McDermott.  So can we all agree to not pretend we know the universe of potential head coaches, and are also certain none could be better than McDermott?

[Donuts and Doritos]

I hear this guy's available:

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/1yJNCuPwsErJexGo6

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[Behindenemylines]

So if the season is a little rough-we sneak in as a wild card but we win the SB is McD still toast?

 

will the fire him now crowd still want him gone because we didn’t go 14-3 to win the SB? 

 

 

[Dan in Owego]

Huge Dave Aranda fan, would be pleased though if it never becomes a possibility.

[Billsflyer12]

1 hour ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

So NO coach can now be fired unless the team has a replacement already that is “absolutely, positively, 100% be better?”

When has that been the standard in any sport?  No coach would EVER be fired if you have to have the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ guarantee because you could never guarantee that.

 

Their are reasonable arguments one could make for McDermott not to be fired, the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ one is so stupid and definitely not one of them.

- Rex Ryan who was .500 with Bills and had been to 2 AFC Championship Games with Jets.  Was a certain DC from Panthers with no HC experience a “absolutely, positively, 100% better” choice?

 

- 10 Super Bowl winning coaches have later been fired.  Their replacements guaranteed to be better?

- Of the 11 coaches who won their 1st Super Bowl in season 7 or later (where McD is now) did so after being fired from previous team.  Having already been fired were they guaranteed to be better the who they replaced?

- 3 NBA coaches were fired in last month who had won recent NBA Championships.

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Billsflyer12

[LABILLBACKER]

I'm willing to give him one more year. He'll have full control of the defense so there will be no more scapegoats. Josh and the 23 roster is good enough to get us into the playoffs. McDermott's future will depend on finding a way to jump KC & Cincy.  If we lose another playoff game where the defense fails, I'm done with him.  Bring in Ben Johnson. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Ben Johnson

 

Fyi 'the next guy might be worse' is not a ringing endorsement 

Of course it is
You now have a coach that has not missed the playoffs in what three years 13 and three season

You change coaches there’s every possibility that you’re looking at a top 10 pack

23 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

So NO coach can now be fired unless the team has a replacement already that is “absolutely, positively, 100% be better?”

When has that been the standard in any sport?  No coach would EVER be fired if you have to have the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ guarantee because you could never guarantee that.

 

Their are reasonable arguments one could make for McDermott not to be fired, the “absolutely, positively, 100% be better“ one is so stupid and definitely not one of them.

 

- 10 Super Bowl winning coaches have later been fired.  Their replacements guaranteed to be better?

- Of the 11 coaches who won their 1st Super Bowl in season 7 or later (where McD is now) did so after being fired from previous team.  Having already been fired were they guaranteed to be better the who they replaced?

- 3 NBA coaches were fired in last month who had won recent NBA Championships.

 

Things have happened to playing themselves out
 

If we regress, then you know they’re going to seriously look at it

 

If they’re going 13 and three, he’s not gonna get fired

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Of course it is
You now have a coach that has not missed the playoffs in what three years 13 and three season

You change coaches there’s every possibility that you’re looking at a top 10 pack

Things have happened to playing themselves out
 

If we regress, then you know they’re going to seriously look at it

 

If they’re going 13 and three, he’s not gonna get fired

Or a Super Bowl. Why not be optimistic

 

[SoMAn]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

In not thrilled w McDermott but I don't think he needs to be fired yet

 

But if this guy was available and I was pegula I'd have a hard time not pulling the trigger

After a 17 year playoff drought McDermott has led the Bills to 5 berths in 6 years, including one with journeyman QB Tyrod Taylor. If the Pegulas fired McDermott and hired one of your unproven prospects, it would be a huge gamble. There are numerous coordinators and college coaches who were touted as the next great thing, only to be on the street in 3 years. 
  If that scenario played out in Buffalo, the mafia would be after Pegula with torches and pitchforks. 
I think the expectation that the Bills should have won a Super Bowl is unrealistic. Could they? Yes. But they probably haven’t been good enough yet. 
  The Bills came closest to getting to the Super Bowl when they lost the 13-second game.
  In hindsight it might turn out to have been a blessing in disguise that they lost. Had they gone on to play Tampa Bay and been slaughtered (as the Chiefs were), that 5th Bills’ Super Bowl loss could have been an emotional burden the current squad might never been able to recover from, even though most of the team wasn’t even born yet during the 0-4 run. 
A change at the head coach position could be a disaster. Be careful what you wish for. 

[Since1981]

 “would another team hire Bills HC away?”  No. 
 

“would the bills hire 4 other HC if any choice?”   Yes. 
 

We don’t have a top 15 HC. We’d try many swings for top 15 QB. HC should be treated similarly 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Ask me after the season. 
 

Im hopeful he is the guy, and this discussion goes by the wayside, but this question is nonsensical in the middle of June. 
 

If the team makes a jump in the postseason, I think most of us will want to stay the course. 
 

If we win the Super Bowl, his job is safe for years. 
 

If not, I’d think most will advocate for an offensive guy.  The OC in Detroit comes to mind as an option off the top of my head. 

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

I didn't know who Sean McVay was (other than John McVay's grandson), Nick Sirianis or Zac Taylor were before they became head coaches.  All have had more playoff success than McDermott.   I doubt you knew who any of those guys were.   I doubt you were banging the drum to hire Sean McDermott.  So can we all agree to not pretend we know the universe of potential head coaches, and are also certain none could be better than McDermott?

 

I think as the OP points out, so many people here seem to be calling for blood so it then begs the questions.

 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

After a 17 year playoff drought McDermott has led the Bills to 5 berths in 6 years, including one with journeyman QB Tyrod Taylor. If the Pegulas fired McDermott and hired one of your unproven prospects, it would be a huge gamble. There are numerous coordinators and college coaches who were touted as the next great thing, only to be on the street in 3 years. 
  If that scenario played out in Buffalo, the mafia would be after Pegula with torches and pitchforks. 
I think the expectation that the Bills should have won a Super Bowl is unrealistic. Could they? Yes. But they probably haven’t been good enough yet. 
  The Bills came closest to getting to the Super Bowl when they lost the 13-second game.
  In hindsight it might turn out to have been a blessing in disguise that they lost. Had they gone on to play Tampa Bay and been slaughtered (as the Chiefs were), that 5th Bills’ Super Bowl loss could have been an emotional burden the current squad might never been able to recover from, even though most of the team wasn’t even born yet during the 0-4 run. 
A change at the head coach position could be a disaster. Be careful what you wish for. 

Yes, things could be worse. I grant you that

 

But some folks seem to be operating under the impression that they couldn't possibly get any better

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, SoMAn said:

After a 17 year playoff drought McDermott has led the Bills to 5 berths in 6 years, including one with journeyman QB Tyrod Taylor. If the Pegulas fired McDermott and hired one of your unproven prospects, it would be a huge gamble. There are numerous coordinators and college coaches who were touted as the next great thing, only to be on the street in 3 years. 
  If that scenario played out in Buffalo, the mafia would be after Pegula with torches and pitchforks. 
I think the expectation that the Bills should have won a Super Bowl is unrealistic. Could they? Yes. But they probably haven’t been good enough yet. 
  The Bills came closest to getting to the Super Bowl when they lost the 13-second game.
  In hindsight it might turn out to have been a blessing in disguise that they lost. Had they gone on to play Tampa Bay and been slaughtered (as the Chiefs were), that 5th Bills’ Super Bowl loss could have been an emotional burden the current squad might never been able to recover from, even though most of the team wasn’t even born yet during the 0-4 run. 
A change at the head coach position could be a disaster. Be careful what you wish for. 

 

 

A worse burden then one of the worst choke jobs in history with the 13 seconds debacle?  
 

 

 

McD has proven he’s a great HC and if he could add a SB in the next 2-3 years he will go down as an all time great HC.  
 

And, some fans may want to move on from him bc he hasn’t gotten it done and has choked.  Only 1 AFCCG appearance.  

 

I said after 13 seconds clean house - not really believing you do that bc it would look ridiculous - just that it’s going to inevitably come to that.  
 

Imo the first crack that showed this group wasn’t over that was Diggs.  I think he played good soldier after the Dorsey hire but ultimately didn’t agree with it, thought it was catering to or babying Josh, and didn’t think it would pan out bc it’s a rookie OC and this team needs to win now.  The minute they looked “not elite” he began to get….to where he is now.  Not sold that McD can get it done.  
 

That doesn’t mean he should be fired.  It’s just a movie I’ve seen the ending of countless times in this league.  My knee jerk reaction a year ago was let’s just get this over with before Josh turns 30.   
 

Going in to year 7, 8, 9 - if no SB or AFCCG appearance I don’t know how he keeps the locker room let alone the fans.  I just don’t think Pegula will fire him.   

 

If things go bad this year it needs to be a consideration.  We have a generational QB we need to figure out how to maximize.  I truly believe that’s all at the heart of what is up with Diggs v McD v Dorsey v Allen.   

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

 

It's a bit premature for this.  Let's see how the season plays out.  It's a foolish proposition to think that this is going to be another drama-free season given the Diggs situation, the murkiness as to exactly why Frasier left, Miller's status, White's status, Davis' status, Dorsey's coaching, McD calling the D AND head coaching, etc., and that we're a shoe-in for another division title and a trip to the AFC CG.

 

If it happens though we'll all be ecstatic.  If not, then there will be heightened criticism and unrest in the media and among fans.  

 

If McD did end up getting replaced, then I'm sure that they'd be looking at how things develop during the season and making a decision in November (to themselves) at the earliest, not prior to the start of training camp this current season.  

 

McD's set himself up to either succeed to a greater extent, or he's given himself enough rope to hang himself.  What he does depends upon him, not any of us.  

 

It seems highly unlikely that the sentiment remains the same as it is now.  It seems far likelier that he'll either cement the trust in him by our fanbase, or that things are going to start falling apart for him.

 

Most of us have our suspicions, but at the end of the season there isn't a Bills fan that wouldn't be ecstatic if he took us to and won the Super Bowl.  

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by PBF81

[Ethan in Cleveland]

If Bills miss the playoffs in 2023, I would replace McD with Jim Harbaugh in 2024.  He was 44-19-1 (0.695)in regular season and 5-3(0.625) in post season.   Both those records compare favorably to McD at 0.639 and 0.444.  

 

Assuming that will not happen then McD will be back for 2024.  If no SuperBowl in 23 or 24 I would fire him no matter the circumstances.  I would then target either Harbaugh or Lincoln Riley.  There may be other option available by then too. 

 

However Allen is going to make all this get rid of McD talk silly.  Because Allen is going to will this team to a SB this year despite McD just like Manning did with Dungy.   

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

I didn't know who Sean McVay was (other than John McVay's grandson), Nick Sirianis or Zac Taylor were before they became head coaches.  All have had more playoff success than McDermott.   I doubt you knew who any of those guys were.   I doubt you were banging the drum to hire Sean McDermott.  So can we all agree to not pretend we know the universe of potential head coaches, and are also certain none could be better than McDermott?

 

Sean McDermott and Sean McVay were both obvious Head Coaches in waiting and stand outs among their peers as coordinators. Siriani and Taylor less so. 

 

I don't pretend to know every potential Head Coach... but I do feel like I spend more time looking at this sort of stuff than the average NFL fan, most of whom a) don't understand scheme and b) don't understand leadership in a locker room environment.

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

If Bills miss the playoffs in 2023, I would replace McD with Jim Harbaugh in 2024.  He was 44-19-1 (0.695)in regular season and 5-3(0.625) in post season.   Both those records compare favorably to McD at 0.639 and 0.444.  

 

Assuming that will not happen then McD will be back for 2024.  If no SuperBowl in 23 or 24 I would fire him no matter the circumstances.  I would then target either Harbaugh or Lincoln Riley.  There may be other option available by then too. 

 

However Allen is going to make all this get rid of McD talk silly.  Because Allen is going to will this team to a SB this year despite McD just like Manning did with Dungy.   

 

No. No. No. Harbaugh is definitively not a winner. If my team was 3-13 I'd hire Harbaugh tomorrow. He is a turnaround expert. He isn't a winner. 6 bowl losses in a row (including a CFP semi final to TC freaking U). A Superbowl loss to a less talented team and two NFCCG losses (again one of those to a clearly less talented team). 

 

It may well be that McDermott fits best in that turnaround specialist category too but if we are replacing him then doing so with someone even more proven to blow it in the biggest games does not make much sense to me.

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, SoMAn said:

After a 17 year playoff drought McDermott has led the Bills to 5 berths in 6 years, including one with journeyman QB Tyrod Taylor. If the Pegulas fired McDermott and hired one of your unproven prospects, it would be a huge gamble. There are numerous coordinators and college coaches who were touted as the next great thing, only to be on the street in 3 years. 
  If that scenario played out in Buffalo, the mafia would be after Pegula with torches and pitchforks. 
I think the expectation that the Bills should have won a Super Bowl is unrealistic. Could they? Yes. But they probably haven’t been good enough yet. 
  The Bills came closest to getting to the Super Bowl when they lost the 13-second game.
  In hindsight it might turn out to have been a blessing in disguise that they lost. Had they gone on to play Tampa Bay and been slaughtered (as the Chiefs were), that 5th Bills’ Super Bowl loss could have been an emotional burden the current squad might never been able to recover from, even though most of the team wasn’t even born yet during the 0-4 run. 
A change at the head coach position could be a disaster. Be careful what you wish for. 

You say "firing McD would be a huge gamble." Would it really? What makes you think that? 

 

You don't think a solid coach can win a lot of games with Allen as their QB? 

 

Do you think McD is irreplaceable? 

 

McD has consistently come up short come playoff time. Correct? Of course things could improve or get worse. There's no guarantee of either. 

 

Your premise of firing McD being a huge gamble isn't how I see it.

 

Imho, it's worth the risk because I'm not convinced McD will lead the Bills to the SB. I have a nice sample size to evaluate. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by newcam2012

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Or a Super Bowl. Why not be optimistic

 

Because to be perfectly honest, wow that is optimistic. It’s not realistic.
 

A change in head coach would mean a change in philosophy. That means new playbooks, both offensively and defensively whenever you’re actually winning with the office and defense you have.  With both an office and defense that was in the top five.

 

When you’re 5 yards away from scoring, you don’t change quarterbacks

 

The only time that I am changing head coaches is if we start regressing by regressing I mean regressing where it matters and wins and losses we went 13 and three last year let’s say this year we win 10 and seven then I would start thinking about it

 

what does team needs? It is players in both sides of the ball that can make plays at key times the idea last year was we were going to bring von miller in to be that guy he got injured.

Edited June 18, 2023 by John from Riverside

[GunnerBill]

Okay so I accept @newcam2012 - I think it was you I was discussing with - that there is a body of opinion which takes a "getting rid of McDermott is too big of a risk" approach. That isn't at all my reason for supporting him remaining but I accept that sentiment is there in this thread from some.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I like Ben Johnson and was surprised he didn't get more love this cycle but it doesn't make sense to have Josh Allen learn the convoluted West Coast language when he's always been in the more-efficient Erhardt-Perkins language. Need an EP guy. I'd interview Mike Kafka.

[newcam2012]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay so I accept @newcam2012 - I think it was you I was discussing with - that there is a body of opinion which takes a "getting rid of McDermott is too big of a risk" approach. That isn't at all my reason for supporting him remaining but I accept that sentiment is there in this thread from some.

Gunner, I respect your opinion and knowledge. You always respond professionally and with solid evidence backing up your claims. 

 

I am often reactionary to a fault. I can't get 13 seconds out of my head nor the playoff performances of the recent years. Perhaps, I'm too short sighted to see a positive long term prognosis. 

 

Takes me back a few years ago when Allen wasn't playing well early in the season. I was incorrectly pounding the table saying Allen was regressing.

 

Boy, was I wrong and happily wrong at that. I would like nothing more than McD to bring a SB to Buffalo. I'd love to be wrong again!

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited June 18, 2023 by newcam2012

[nucci]

Why am I always told to be careful what I wish for?

[eball]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

Why am I always told to be careful what I wish for?

 

I don’t know, but I sure wished for Frazier to depart.  We’ll see how that plays out.

 

[CoudyBills]

8 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

Only if you agree to pay for $4M for an accurate prediction. 

[DJB]

Brian Daboll 😭

[Buffalo Boy]

9 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

So if the season is a little rough-we sneak in as a wild card but we win the SB is McD still toast?

 

will the fire him now crowd still want him gone because we didn’t go 14-3 to win the SB? 

 

 

  So if the season is a smashing success and we win 14 games but we get our asses drubbed, at home ,and our team looks like they quit before the game started?

   Will the He’s the best coach we’ve had in decades crowd want to give him a fourth chance in a row?

[Buffalo Boy]

7 hours ago, SoMAn said:

In hindsight it might turn out to have been a blessing in disguise that they lost. Had they gone on to play Tampa Bay and been slaughtered (as the Chiefs were),

It was the Rams/Cinci game and we would have beaten the Rams

[Behindenemylines]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

  So if the season is a smashing success and we win 14 games but we get our asses drubbed, at home ,and our team looks like they quit before the game started?

   Will the He’s the best coach we’ve had in decades crowd want to give him a fourth chance in a row?

That’s a good point. My personal opinion is he will be gone in your scenario. For those that think Pegula doesn’t have the balls to fire him I say you don’t become a billionaire by being a nice guy all the time.  Winning is winning-boardroom or on the field and you need the right team 

 

What I think “happened” was that McD wanted Frazier out last year and was overruled.  This year he got his way but was told you’re handling the D and this is your chance to prove yourself correct. 
 

if this year isn’t successful( by however Pegula measures it) McD is gone 

[PrimeTime101]

9 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Who is your replacement?  Who will absolutely, positively, 100%, be that "better" choice you are clamoring for?

 

I keep on hearing "McDermott is the problem."

 

Who is the solution? Someone actually available to be hired. 

how many different topics do we need on McD? 

[Buffalo Boy]

4 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

how many different topics do we need on McD? 

A LOT!!!!

[PrimeTime101]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

A LOT!!!!

i mean damn... 

@teef

This **** Place

[SCBills]

10 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

We *DO* have a history, of the 'next guy being worse'.

A new coach brings a new system, and a likely multiple year rebuild.

After 13-3, no thanks.

 

 

Multiple year rebuild?..

 

Dolphins didn’t rebuild, with a far less talented and injury prone QB, under Mike McDaniel. 
 

If we underperform and/or come up short again in the Playoffs, I think the Pegula’s need to think long and hard about bringing in a new HC. 
 

AFC Championship Game is the minimum, imo, to potentially avoid this conversation.   And if we don’t win that game, it has to be a competitive game, not another Chiefs ‘20 or Bengals ‘22 fiasco. 
 

I hope it doesn’t get to that.. but if it does, what exactly are we holding on to him for?   We’ll have reached a point where we’ve seemingly plateaued as a franchise and risk him losing the locker room.