Future sale of Bills ??????????? (speculation from attention seeking media)

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

Thanks - and just for clarification though - did Kirwan ever suggest during one of their what if scenarios that the Bills were a likely sell in the near future?

not in that show, but in past he has wondered how much more the team would be worth with a new stadium and a winning team. 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

Cool. That's like a 10 cent down payment if the Bills sell for 10 billion. How do I get in on this action?

 

You might get the financial support of @HOUSE for nothing more than a new ashtray. I think he’s hiding assets for some reason, he’s not broke like he makes out. Did you realize he has a slightly damaged coffee pot AND a floor? He’s got to have some clout to help you. 

 

EDIT: The title now reads like this is some kind of an imminent transaction, not just some pure speculation on the radio. That’s a bit misleading, IMO. Is it possible? Sure. Do I think it will happen? Not in my lifetime when they have the stadium coming out of the ground. 

 

 

.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Augie

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

not in that show, but in past he has wondered how much more the team would be worth with a new stadium and a winning team. 

 

Per Forbes the Bills are currently 29th out of 32 teams. The Bills are worth 3.4 billion. So, the new stadium has made a difference.

[ColoradoBills]

9 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

How do we know him? How many times have you met him? I have only once. I don’t know him at all. Reporters likely know him more than fans do. We only see his public persona.

 

Come on, I'm comparing an avid Buffalo sports fan (both hockey and football) and all the times we have watched the Pegula's interact with the

community and all of the interviews and press conference compared to a couple of national football guys.  I disagree with your assumption these

2 guys know him better than the Buffalo community.  As to the "public persona", I don't think every time Terry has tears in his eyes it's an act.

[PrimeTime101]

21 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Per Forbes the Bills are currently 29th out of 32 teams. The Bills are worth 3.4 billion. So, the new stadium has made a difference.

and that was pertaining to the conversation.

[Big Blitz]

15 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Terry’s daughter has stated publicly she’s learning the business side to take the team over some day. 

 

I recently heard his oldest daughter from his first marriage was with him at the Owners meetings last month.  

 

Can anyone confirm?  

[corta765]

11 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I recently heard his oldest daughter from his first marriage was with him at the Owners meetings last month.  

 

Can anyone confirm?  

 

Yes she was there representing the team. I read it from a few places:

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/ryan-ohalloran-laura-pegula-represents-bills-at-nfl-meetings-and-other-topics-of-note/article_91f31434-ce47-11ed-8735-1b192691c8fa.html

Edited April 18, 2023 by corta765

[Buffalo_Stampede]

26 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I recently heard his oldest daughter from his first marriage was with him at the Owners meetings last month.  

 

Can anyone confirm?  

She’s the biggest Sabres fan other than Terry.  She’s also very smart, a geologist.

 

 I can’t see the Pegulas ever selling the Bills or Sabres. It seems like the kids want to run the teams in the future. Jessica even talked about it a few months ago in the article she wrote.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Gregg]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

She’s the biggest Sabres fan other than Terry.  She’s also very smart, a geologist.

 

 I can’t see the Pegulas ever selling the Bills or Sabres. It seems like the kids want to run the teams in the future.

 

 

 

Especially the Bills. Being an NFL owner is owning a cash cow. The money off the TV contract alone is crazy. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Especially the Bills. Being an NFL owner is owning a cash cow. The money off the TV contract alone is crazy. 

Bills will be worth $15 billion by the time the kids are their parents age. What better job is there than owning a sports team? Especially for people that love sports and competing? Laura was a college athlete and we all know about Jessica.

[Matt_In_NH]

15 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Terry’s daughter has stated publicly she’s learning the business side to take the team over some day. 

The big question is what happens once Terry and Kim pass.  I think the inheritance tax situation will essentially force a sell.  I believe that happened in Denver.  Hope I am wrong....

[Mrbojanglezs]

14 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Good point about Kim being the person expected to be the succession plan. It might now depend on the interest level of the daughters. If they don’t want to take over the family businesses, then cashing out right after the new stadium is built would be a smart move. That is a huge additional asset that will raise the value of the team immensely. I’m not saying that it is going to happen, but after what has happened with the family it would not be a surprise. 

 

The problem with kids taking it over might have to do with taxes because assets don't pass tax-free to children with those kind of estate net worth but I am definitely not sure on that 

[TheFunPolice]

From what I understand, estate taxes can be between 20% and 40% of the value of the estate, so in order for the children to own the team they would need to be able to pay a tax of well over $1 billion in cash. That's the biggest issue with the team remaining in the family sometime hopefully long, long into the future. 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

From what I understand, estate taxes can be between 20% and 40% of the value of the estate, so in order for the children to own the team they would need to be able to pay a tax of well over $1 billion in cash. That's the biggest issue with the team remaining in the family sometime hopefully long, long into the future. 

 

The rich know all the loopholes to minimize the tax burden...whether that be putting it in a trust, or whatever else they do.

 

Those people didn't get rich by giving money away.

[eball]

Terry has a couple of daughters who seem to be pretty damned interested in these Buffalo franchises.

 

I like Pat Kirwan but he should stick to Xs and Os.

 

[Bob Jones]

45 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The big question is what happens once Terry and Kim pass.  I think the inheritance tax situation will essentially force a sell.  I believe that happened in Denver.  Hope I am wrong....

Yep, and it's the same reason the Robbie family had to sell the Dolphins 30 years ago, as they had to pay a $47million tax bill.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

5 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

From what I understand, estate taxes can be between 20% and 40% of the value of the estate, so in order for the children to own the team they would need to be able to pay a tax of well over $1 billion in cash. That's the biggest issue with the team remaining in the family sometime hopefully long, long into the future. 

 

Another aspect adding complexity to the situation is that by that time the team may be worth half, if not more, the total inheritance, making a shared ownership the only viable option. That's certainly possible but my personal experience is that family businesses should be run by an odd number of family members, and three is too many.

[boater]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The rich know all the loopholes to minimize the tax burden...whether that be putting it in a trust, or whatever else they do.

 

Those people didn't get rich by giving money away.

No. When Jack Kent Cook, owner of the Redskins, passed away, they tried everything to pass the team to the kids and failed. The estate had to sell to Snyder.

[Thrivefourfive]

6 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

I could see him selling as well.   His heart may just not be in it anymore without Kim in the building with him.  He may see the team and her over the top work ethic as a cause of her health issues.    I could see it for sure.  

Life is short and he may want to travel around for Jessica’s tournaments. I wonder how things are going to be with ownership and the team over the next decade. Unforeseen circumstances, sadly. 

[Gigs]

20 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Somebody lock up Bon Jovi! 

Mr Bovine Joni

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, boater said:

No. When Jack Kent Cook, owner of the Redskins, passed away, they tried everything to pass the team to the kids and failed. The estate had to sell to Snyder.

 

Simply a case of poor planning.

 

https://inequality.org/great-divide/sports-teams-tax-shelter-billionaires/

 

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Come on, I'm comparing an avid Buffalo sports fan (both hockey and football) and all the times we have watched the Pegula's interact with the

community and all of the interviews and press conference compared to a couple of national football guys.  I disagree with your assumption these

2 guys know him better than the Buffalo community.  As to the "public persona", I don't think every time Terry has tears in his eyes it's an act.

 

You're a marketers dream.

 

I'm not saying Pegula is a terrible person or anything, but your perception of him and the organization is from the marketing job they have done.

 

They have done a masterful job of controlling the media. Everything from suspending a reporter because he mentioned the players that were practicing with the 1st unit in training camp, to McDermott cursing out a reporter before a practice for writing a negative article, to PSE getting a reporter fired for negative takes. Even WGR dares to say a negative word, as PSE controls the contract given for sports games with WGR.

 

PSE runs Buffalo's media with an iron fist.

 

It took a completely independent and non-local news organization (the Athletic) to publish information that many people around Buffalo knew about. Boston sports media has outwardly laughed at the softball questions our reporters give to our teams. Two sources even said that McDermott was concerned that the PSE culture would infiltrate and affect the Bills.

 

From the article:

 

“Toxic culture” was the most repeated phrase from those interviewed. They detailed being overworked because of continual downsizing while dealing with chain-of-command breakdowns, poor communication flow and interdepartmental disorder.

 

“I used to feel proud to tell people I worked for PSE,” said a current employee. “Then there was a point I just had to force a smile when talking about my job. Now, when people ask me about openings, I tell them not to apply.”

 

Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude." link

 

[ndirish1978]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:17 PM, DallasBillsFan1 said:

I listen to Sirius XM NFL.  On Moving The Chains today with Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller they discussed the sale of the Commanders.  Then the topic turned to potenital sale of other teams and Pat Kirwin mentioned Seattle and BUFFALO.   WHAT?  Kirwin said he heard of that possibility.  Maybe it's a wild rumor but this is the first I've heard anything like this.  It's only been 7 years since the Pegula's purchased the Bills.  The only thing that I could think that would prompt Mr. Pegula to sell the team of was the health of Kim Pegula ... but I am speculating.  Has anyone else heard of this?  Assuming there is any truth to this, what assurances does the county have that the new owner would keep the Bills in WNY (for new stadium)?

 

Yeah, he wants to build a new stadium and then leave it empty as a prank...

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Yeah, he wants to build a new stadium and then leave it empty as a prank...

This whole thread started because OP heard bits and pieces of a conversation out of sequence and then speculated a specific assertion by Kirwan that another poster who actually listened to the entire broadcast in context refuted. Then a bunch of folks chose to take the theme and run with it regardless of whether there was an actual basis for it. They speculated about private anguish and inheritance tax and the like to paint a dismal, sad picture. I guess there are those who enjoy despondent thoughts, but it seems perverse to me.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:20 PM, DJB said:

Damn we moving to Toronto again?!?!?! 😢

 

Ralph is cheap!!!!

 

 

[BRH]

Can someone just take this post down before we get another 30 pages of people who haven't read the entire thread?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:35 PM, KDIGGZ said:

As per the new stadium lease, I do believe the new owner would be able to move the team without penalty in the year 2055. If there is NFL football still going on by then I'll eat my hat 

I'll be long dead inshallah 

[BobbyC81]

On 4/17/2023 at 3:26 PM, KzooMike said:

It's odd you posted this as the thought crossed my mind recently. I was hoping somebody who is more researched on the subject could speak to it. The thought was surrounding Terry's age and Kim's health and what if Terry just wanted to move on. I wasn't sure how the new stadium played a part. What our agreement is. Obviously the OP's post seems far fetched on the surface, but who knows. 

Don’t forget the NFL stuck their nose in and said stadium lease has to be reasonable to get out of.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, NUT said:

I'm pretty sure it was Kim who wanted the Bills more than Terry. With her condition I would not be surprised if the Bills were sold.

Right. Once again, FOR THE SLOW PEOPLE SiTTING IN THE BACK, they are going ahead with the new stadium and spending a billion and a half dollars without knowing the future ownership of the Bills.

 

Common sense seems to have left the building.

[boyst]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:24 PM, MrEpsYtown said:

Somebody lock up Bon Jovi! 

The biggest thing about bon Jovi that upset me wasn't that he was going to move ethe Bills. It's that he lied about it after it went out there. Then he went on national media and lied about it again on a major (at the time relevant forum) blaming another potential ownership group for the rumor in an attempt to smear that party. Doubling down on his lie just to attack someone he doesn't like showed a lot about his character. 

[LabattBlue]

12 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You're a marketers dream.

 

I'm not saying Pegula is a terrible person or anything, but your perception of him and the organization is from the marketing job they have done.

 

They have done a masterful job of controlling the media. Everything from suspending a reporter because he mentioned the players that were practicing with the 1st unit in training camp, to McDermott cursing out a reporter before a practice for writing a negative article, to PSE getting a reporter fired for negative takes. Even WGR dares to say a negative word, as PSE controls the contract given for sports games with WGR.

 

PSE runs Buffalo's media with an iron fist.

 

It took a completely independent and non-local news organization (the Athletic) to publish information that many people around Buffalo knew about. Boston sports media has outwardly laughed at the softball questions our reporters give to our teams. Two sources even said that McDermott was concerned that the PSE culture would infiltrate and affect the Bills.

 

From the article:

 

“Toxic culture” was the most repeated phrase from those interviewed. They detailed being overworked because of continual downsizing while dealing with chain-of-command breakdowns, poor communication flow and interdepartmental disorder.

 

“I used to feel proud to tell people I worked for PSE,” said a current employee. “Then there was a point I just had to force a smile when talking about my job. Now, when people ask me about openings, I tell them not to apply.”

 

Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude." link

 

What Athletic article are you quoting?

[Gregg]

1 hour ago, NUT said:

I'm pretty sure it was Kim who wanted the Bills more than Terry. With her condition I would not be surprised if the Bills were sold.

 

Owning an NFL team is owning the golden goose $$$$$$. Terry may be more of a hockey fan then football fan but if he were to sell any team its bye bye Sabres. With that said I think his children will eventually take over. Isn't his oldest learning the business of owning a team?

[MrEpsYtown]

33 minutes ago, boyst said:

The biggest thing about bon Jovi that upset me wasn't that he was going to move ethe Bills. It's that he lied about it after it went out there. Then he went on national media and lied about it again on a major (at the time relevant forum) blaming another potential ownership group for the rumor in an attempt to smear that party. Doubling down on his lie just to attack someone he doesn't like showed a lot about his character. 

 

It was shades of Clay Bennett moving the SuperSonics...snake

[boyst]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You're a marketers dream.

 

I'm not saying Pegula is a terrible person or anything, but your perception of him and the organization is from the marketing job they have done.

 

They have done a masterful job of controlling the media. Everything from suspending a reporter because he mentioned the players that were practicing with the 1st unit in training camp, to McDermott cursing out a reporter before a practice for writing a negative article, to PSE getting a reporter fired for negative takes. Even WGR dares to say a negative word, as PSE controls the contract given for sports games with WGR.

 

PSE runs Buffalo's media with an iron fist.

 

It took a completely independent and non-local news organization (the Athletic) to publish information that many people around Buffalo knew about. Boston sports media has outwardly laughed at the softball questions our reporters give to our teams. Two sources even said that McDermott was concerned that the PSE culture would infiltrate and affect the Bills.

 

From the article:

 

“Toxic culture” was the most repeated phrase from those interviewed. They detailed being overworked because of continual downsizing while dealing with chain-of-command breakdowns, poor communication flow and interdepartmental disorder.

 

“I used to feel proud to tell people I worked for PSE,” said a current employee. “Then there was a point I just had to force a smile when talking about my job. Now, when people ask me about openings, I tell them not to apply.”

 

Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude." link

 

this is 100% absolutely true.

 

there are players that have been notably upset and pissed at this whole "holistic" drink the kool aid buy in "the process" schtick.

 

it was complete bull#### because mcdermott drops the ball, specifically in KC for 13 seconds. hughes was a victim of this and he was cast aside because he was more than outspoken in the aftermath when people were blaming the defense he [rightfully] called out the special teams and lack of coaching communication.

 

other players ahve been critical of this process and per my understanding there ar still a few with the team but for the most part those guys are not resigned, are released, or are done away with.

 

mcdermott only wants kool aid drinkings to his royal chalise.

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You're a marketers dream.

 

I'm not saying Pegula is a terrible person or anything, but your perception of him and the organization is from the marketing job they have done.

 

They have done a masterful job of controlling the media. Everything from suspending a reporter because he mentioned the players that were practicing with the 1st unit in training camp, to McDermott cursing out a reporter before a practice for writing a negative article, to PSE getting a reporter fired for negative takes. Even WGR dares to say a negative word, as PSE controls the contract given for sports games with WGR.

 

PSE runs Buffalo's media with an iron fist.

 

It took a completely independent and non-local news organization (the Athletic) to publish information that many people around Buffalo knew about. Boston sports media has outwardly laughed at the softball questions our reporters give to our teams. Two sources even said that McDermott was concerned that the PSE culture would infiltrate and affect the Bills.

 

From the article:

 

“Toxic culture” was the most repeated phrase from those interviewed. They detailed being overworked because of continual downsizing while dealing with chain-of-command breakdowns, poor communication flow and interdepartmental disorder.

 

“I used to feel proud to tell people I worked for PSE,” said a current employee. “Then there was a point I just had to force a smile when talking about my job. Now, when people ask me about openings, I tell them not to apply.”

 

Two sources close to Bills head coach Sean McDermott say the January meetings left him concerned about low morale eroding the culture he and general manager Brandon Beane have cultivated over the past three years with a meticulous, holistic attitude." link

 

 

On that one particularly that is a condition of training camp attendance (and a rule that most teams apply) and said reporter had been warned on previous occasions.  As for getting Sullivan fired..... I'm not sure PSE did that. Maybe they did, I don't know, but Sullivan was almost universally disliked by the fanbase (he was also not great at his job) and the BN was actively canvassing the fanbase (they even did it on here) for ways that they could maintain / improve readership at a time when they were cutting cost in response to falling circulation. Maybe it was PSE, I suspect it wasn't and they just concluded Sully was bad for business. 

 

That isn't to say I disagree with the sentiment that they have fostered a very favourable local media environment. They have. I just watched Beane's pre-draft presser and it was the worst I have ever watched in 15 years. Not because those are sessions to grill Beane about mistakes or ask him critical questions but because they are opportunities to ask about the draft and the Bills approach and instead he got so many soft lob questions about Terrell Bernard and Khalil Shakir and irrelevant questions like "do you still grade Quarterbacks even though you have Josh?"  They got very little out of Beane yesterday. And Beane is a guy who tells you stuff. Disappointing. 

 

 

1 minute ago, boyst said:

this is 100% absolutely true.

 

there are players that have been notably upset and pissed at this whole "holistic" drink the kool aid buy in "the process" schtick.

 

it was complete bull#### because mcdermott drops the ball, specifically in KC for 13 seconds. hughes was a victim of this and he was cast aside because he was more than outspoken in the aftermath when people were blaming the defense he [rightfully] called out the special teams and lack of coaching communication.

 

other players ahve been critical of this process and per my understanding there ar still a few with the team but for the most part those guys are not resigned, are released, or are done away with.

 

mcdermott only wants kool aid drinkings to his royal chalise.

 

That is a different point though. That isn't about PSE controlling the media. It's about Sean McDermott controlling the locker room. And Jerry Hughes wasn't coming back for 2022 in any circumstances. 

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

The biggest thing about bon Jovi that upset me wasn't that he was going to move ethe Bills. It's that he lied about it after it went out there. Then he went on national media and lied about it again on a major (at the time relevant forum) blaming another potential ownership group for the rumor in an attempt to smear that party. Doubling down on his lie just to attack someone he doesn't like showed a lot about his character. 

Yeah that was particularly hilarious. He was partnered with Maple Leaf Entertainment and Rogers Communications. Everyone clearly saw where that was going.

[Einstein]

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

As for getting Sullivan fired..... I'm not sure PSE did that. Maybe it was PSE, I suspect it wasn't and they just concluded Sully was bad for business. 

 

Sullivan said that in his exit interview (firing) that they (Buffalo News) mentioned to him that they had received pressure from PSE to oust him. I think he also said he was pressured by PSE to write less negative articles too.

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That isn't to say I disagree with the sentiment that they have fostered a very favourable local media environment. They have. I just watched Beane's pre-draft presser and it was the worst I have ever watched in 15 years. Not because those are sessions to grill Beane about mistakes or ask him critical questions but because they are opportunities to ask about the draft and the Bills approach and instead he got so many soft lob questions

 

It really is awful, isn't it?

 

I will never forget the Boston media laughing at our media over the soft lob questions. It was genuinely sad and made me feel a bit insecure about our hometown media and organization.

[teef]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It really is awful, isn't it?

 

I will never forget the Boston media laughing at our media over the soft lob questions. It was genuinely sad and made me feel a bit insecure about our hometown media and organization.

did you actually hear laughter?

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 4/17/2023 at 6:35 PM, KDIGGZ said:

As per the new stadium lease, I do believe the new owner would be able to move the team without penalty in the year 2055. If there is NFL football still going on by then I'll eat my hat 

 

 

I believe the buyout even early on in the current lease is one billion dollars.

 

Yes, a lot, but given the scales we are currently talking about with the potential sale of the Commanders the economics of these deals are so different than even just 9 years ago.  back then a Bills owner with a 5 billion dollar worth made you one of the richest owners in the NFL, but probably would not get you through the door to buy a team today. 

 

If you have 5 billion to spend on an NFL team I really going to be that sick over spending another billion to possibly move them someplace else?

 

Additionally, just because we are told succession is in place doesn't mean it has to take place.  Many of us have, and continue, to keep Kim in our thoughts and prayers and maybe we can't even comprehend what they are dealing with at this point in her health.  However, at 72, what if Terry, without the continued assistance, guidance ad even partnership with his wife, doesn't want to do this anymore at some point?

 

Regardless, I have resigned myself to the idea that even if they make it to the end this will be the last lease deal for the Bills in Western New York.  Will I have shuffled off this mortal coil before they go?  Maybe.  However, I am in the minority because it does matter to me if they leave when I am gone, because I would like to think that whenever my child roots for this team in the future it will draw her closer and make her think about her late father.

 

While she watches the team during the games, and also to be in attendance during the annual halftime ceremony celebrating my exploits as the martyred commander of Space Force who successfully defended our planet from alien invaders on "He Did It For All of US Day", always set as the third Sunday in October.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[boater]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Sullivan said that in his exit interview (firing) that they (Buffalo News) mentioned to him that they had received pressure from PSE to oust him. I think he also said he was pressured by PSE to write less negative articles too.

I believe PSE pressured the News to fire him. Rumor at the time: "fire Sully, or forget about our program printing contract."

 

But Sully contributes to his own bad luck. He has to fully own this gem which got him fired in Niagara Falls:

Quote

The worst fans really are the women. They don’t get critical journalism. They’re all wannabe cheerleaders. You know what I mean? It’s always … It’s a dangerous avenue to go down to criticize women in general, because they’re better than men generally, but they don’t get it as fans.