Tre'Davious White - when will he be ready?

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Him and Eric Wood both were sort of going off about it on the pre-game show. I was surprised how much they had to say.

 

Poor Sal... He just had to do the "golly gee... which is... thanks guys!" routine and go to commercial. Sal sounded very uncomfortable after that segment, at least to me. 

 

Yup..  I was listening on my way over to my dad's house and Brown/Wood definitely seemed to have energy indicative of being done with the White absence.  The very specific comment about OBJ being in his ear lends me to believe that they were given the green light to openly discuss him in that manner. 

[Motorin']

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

As Beck Water just pointed out, $37M in Dead Cap to cut him. 

 

+20M in the next two years. 

 

Yeah but, maybe there a wr who just played in the Grey Cup who could put us over the top? 

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

None of that had anything to do with Tre is the point.  

 

We certainly could have won all 3 games without Tre, would be a point of agreement between us

 

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

We had chances to win all 3 games, and basically had won the Vikings game, but the offense lost us all 3.  

 

But I think when you want to boil it down to "one play" and point at "if that one play was different we win", you could probably point at a defensive play as well.

 

For example, if Jefferson doesn't make that 32 yd reception on 4th and 18 with 2 minutes left in the game, we get the ball back and are 1 first down from a win.  Would Tre White at his previous level of play make a difference there?  etcetera.

[Matt_In_NH]

Speculation is this is mental somehow with Tre and there is becoming a fair amount of smoke to back that up.  Is there another option though, maybe he has not performed well in practice and is not ready?

[NickelCity]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Yeah but you have nothing to base that on. 

 

You're just hoping. 

 

So 7-more weeks of him being out and just practicing fully with no injury designation and you're fine?

 

Nothing to base what on? Hoping for what? I didn't make a claim so I'm not sure if these were intended to be directed to me...

 

As for the latter, it's like I said: I'm good with his schedule so long as he's ramped up (presumably a regular season game or two) for the playoffs. I'd be disappointed if he didn't play this year. 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Matt_In_NH said:

Speculation is this is mental somehow with Tre and there is becoming a fair amount of smoke to back that up.  Is there another option though, maybe he has not performed well in practice and is not ready?

Well I'm sure our coach will shed light on this when he talks to the media at 2:00 PM. 

[MJS]

47 minutes ago, Beast said:

IMO, it’s time he plays or goes on IR. And that is no bash on White. It’s just time to lace them up because the team needs you and you are physically ready or look forward to next season if he can’t mentally get over the hurdle.

 

One or the other.

I guess I just don't understand why those are the only two options. Why isn't it an option for White to take a couple of more weeks to get right mentally and completely ready physically to then finish strong with the team for the last few games and the playoffs? Would that really be the end of the world?

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

“At some point we’ve got to go”

 

Puts the holdout squarely on White, not the organization, but does so in an understanding McD way.

 

Thanks!  It's wonderful to have an actual link and be able to actually listen to what was said instead of a bunch of inferences and interpretations.

 

I don't hear "holdout" on White, there.  I do hear that there's a level someone (White and his rehab team?) feels he needs to be at, which may be a higher level than the Bills medical and training team feel he should be at.  But it is a player's right under the CBA to get a second opinion and to choose treatment and rehab independent of the team (which the team must then work with), and it doesn't mean it's a mental issue for White.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Beck Water

[Brand J]

11 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Exactly, at some point. Not this week or cut him. 

Oh yeah, I’m not advocating cutting him, that’s just some of the frustration going on with other folks, but what I thought was the issue all along turned out to be correct: Tre is healed from the ACL injury and after the strenuous rehab has gotten his strength back in the knee, but isn’t satisfied with how he’s looked going against NFL receivers in practice. We’re talking about an all pro player, ego is real! He doesn’t want to look bad with millions watching.
In all seriousness, only Tre knows his timeline, but the organization probably needs to start gently nudging him. We understand it’s a 2 year process to get everything back, Tre. We don’t expect all pro caliber this year, but your leadership and knowledge are needed on the field. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by JayBaller10

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

I guess I just don't understand why those are the only two options. Why isn't it an option for White to take a couple of more weeks to get right mentally and completely ready physically to then finish strong with the team for the last few games and the playoffs? Would that really be the end of the world?

 

Oooh, you're being reasonable!  Stop That!

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Oh yeah, I’m not advocating cutting him, that’s just some of the frustration going on with other folks, but what I thought was the issue all along turned out to be correct: Tre is healed from the ACL injury and after the strenuous rehab has gotten his strength back in the knee, but isn’t satisfied with how he’s looked going against NFL receivers in practice. We’re talking about an all pro player, ego is real! He doesn’t want to look bad with millions watching.
In all seriousness, only Tre knows his timeline, but the organization probably needs to start gently nudging him. We understand it’s a 2 year process to get everything back, Tre. We don’t except all pro caliber this year, but your leadership and knowledge are needed on the field. 

 

That's a great way of looking at it, unlike many of the abusive views being thrown around. 

[boyst]

There is no reason he cannot play snaps Thursday. We are banged up in the secondary and having him in rotation would critical. We can call up the dude from Indy again.

 

If it's me we tell Tre he's starting. We play him the first series. We let him see how he feels. We encourage him to play the first quarter. We let it roll from there. 

[Beast]

Just now, MJS said:

I guess I just don't understand why those are the only two options. Why isn't it an option for White to take a couple of more weeks to get right mentally and completely ready physically to then finish strong with the team for the last few games and the playoffs? Would that really be the end of the world?

Is he going to be mentally ready in 2 weeks? 
 

Is he going to be mentally ready in 2 months?

 

I know Adrian Peterson tore an ACL and MCL, was back in 10 months for the start of the 2012 NFL season and went out and won the NFL MVP that season. 
 

The team needs Tre White. His teammates are getting physically beat up. Our CB’s were abused by the Browns yesterday.

 

The Bills are in the business of trying to win games and Tre White is physically able to help them do just that.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

48 minutes ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

I've been getting slammed for 2 weeks now.  I'm feeling more and more proud of my stance as each game passes.  Right now Tre White is $17M in dead cap for this team.  It's preventing us from being a serious contender for OBJ.

I don't think the two have anything to do with each other.

 

Whites contract is spent money, Bills would never get that back whether cutting him or IRing him. In business that is called sunk cost.

 

Bills were never serious contenders for OBJ anyways

 

 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, MJS said:

I guess I just don't understand why those are the only two options. Why isn't it an option for White to take a couple of more weeks to get right mentally and completely ready physically to then finish strong with the team for the last few games and the playoffs? Would that really be the end of the world?

 

I'm fine with this.  We wouldn't be having this level of frustration if there weren't players in and out of the lineup on a week to week basis with a decimated secondary on this defense, but that shouldn't make us rush Tre White back before he's ready.   After all, we need him right for the playoffs more than anything. 

 

That said.. After his opt-out flirtation, and now this, I'm quite ok if the Bills moved him for decent pick(s) this off-season.  Hopefully he helps us win a Super Bowl and we can go about rebuilding the next iteration of this secondary around Taron Johnson and Kaiir Elam after the season. 

 

I doubt we move him, but I also think some tough decisions need to be made after this season.. i.e. what KC went through this past off-season.   

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by SCBills

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

Again, with the recent comments and knowing White has been practicing for quite some time, I don’t understand why you believe it would be such a reach that frustration is building with this guy. We have a freaking QB laying it on the line after having his elbow bent in a way it shouldn’t be. Jordan Poyer with a huge Frankenstein brace on his elbow getting back out there.

 

And then we have Tre White practicing, on the acurve roster and not on the injury report.

 

 

where did I say that frustration wasn’t building?  I’ll save you the time.  I didn’t.  I believe that they ARE getting frustrated with him.  That doesn’t mean they should just put him in IR.   He may be able to play and contribute to a potential Super Bowl run.  We shouldn’t rush this situation.  Wait and see.  

 

Tre’s situation has zero relevance to Josh and Poyers situations.  I highly doubt Josh and Poyer are pissed at him. 

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

I guess I just don't understand why those are the only two options. Why isn't it an option for White to take a couple of more weeks to get right mentally and completely ready physically to then finish strong with the team for the last few games and the playoffs? Would that really be the end of the world?

Ultimatums usually work out well on grown adult millionaires.  
 

it’s the equivalent of throwing a baby tantrum.

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

Is he going to be mentally ready in 2 weeks? 
 

Is he going to be mentally ready in 2 months?

 

I know Adrian Peterson tore an ACL and MCL, was back in 10 months for the start of the 2012 NFL season and went out and won the NFL MVP that season. 
 

The team needs Tre White. His teammates are getting physically beat up. Our CB’s were abused by the Browns yesterday.

 

The Bills are in the business of trying to win games and Tre White is physically able to help them do just that.

But Adrian Peterson came back…. So everyone else should be able to do the same.  Everyone is the same, physically and mentally. 
 

Your take is extremely juvenile.  Grow up. 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Oh I agree, but despite all that happened in each game, it also came down to something as simple as a missed FG in Miami (not to mention a fumbled FG snap at end of half by backup snapper), and missed FG against Jets, and a fumbled snap by Allen.  Each of those games, despite any other issues those games, could have been won if not for those single plays.  

My main point was just that it was offensive issues that cost us those games, not Tre White not playing.
 

 

None of that had anything to do with Tre is the point.  
 

We had chances to win all 3 games, and basically had won the Vikings game, but the offense lost us all 3.  

Justin Jefferson - 10 receptions for 193 yards.  

[Returntoglory]

When I was in the USAF stationed in Germany in the 80's, I played USAFE Soccer and competitive Ice Hockey against European countries. 

I initially injured my knee during soccer practice. I went to the base hospital and saw an ER Dr. He told me " Just a strain, you'll be fine".

I re-injured my knee during a hockey tournament in Sweden a few months later. After a few minutes on the ice, I stood up and put pressure on my knee and skated to the bench. 

The following Monday I went to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. I saw a civilian orthopedic surgeon. He scoped my knee and said, and I quote " I don't know who told you that your knee was fine, but your ACL is torn, as is your MCL and LCL!

I was devastated of course. 20 years old with visions of a professional baseball career now gone.

I was in a full, hinged polio type leg brace for two years. I could only take it off to shower or to sleep.

Fast forward to when my brace was finally taken off. I had a Lenox Hill brace that I would wear it for sports. It took me almost a year to gain the confidence to run or skate. I was petrified of the thought of having a relapse with my knee and going through all the pain and rehab all over again.

So, if in fact Tre is extremely gun-shy right now, I for one have firsthand understanding and compassion for him and why he is feeling this way.

It is a tough mental hurdle to get over. ESPECIALLY in a fast, high contact sport. 

Take your time Tre, football can wait. 
 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Returntoglory

[Bad Things]

I really liked it when there wasn't so many bandwagon... I mean "great, long-serving" fans on this board.

 

There's always been idiots posting here, but its gotten ridiculous this season.

 

[wppete]

Tredavious relaxing in the hot tub counting the $$$$. 

[Solomon Grundy]

I definitely wouldn't play on Detroit's field. Considered one of the worst in football 

[Nineforty]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

I don’t think it’s too hard to figure out with White having been back at practice a while, McDermott and Eric Woods and Chris Brown’s comments.

 

It appears all about confidence at this point. He’s physically ready but not mentally. 
 

IMO, it’s time he plays or goes on IR. And that is no bash on White. It’s just time to lace them up because the team needs you and you are physically ready or look forward to next season if he can’t mentally get over the hurdle.

 

One or the other.

 

Don't you think the team would rather get him back in a couple of weeks potentially and deal with any negatives (like fans being whiny *****; roster moves) until then?

 

Don't you think the team would be weighing everything on a week to week basis and would make the best decision for the team?

 

Glad you aren't the decision-maker, willing to IR someone who could help you down the stretch and who may be available in the coming weeks.

 

In your words, he has to play or be placed on IR. this is simply wrong. And idiotic. 

 

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I definitely wouldn't play on Detroit's field. Considered one of the worst in football 

So he's only going to suit up on fields he feels comfortable on?  

[KellyToTasker]

3 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

When I was in the USAF stationed in Germany in the 80's, I played USAFE Soccer and competitive Ice Hockey against European countries. 

I initially injured my knee during soccer practice. I went to the base hospital and saw an ER Dr. He told me " Just a strain, you'll be fine".

I re-injured my knee during a hockey tournament in Sweden a few months later. After a few minutes on the ice, I stood up and put pressure on my knee and skated to the bench. 

The following Monday I went to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center. I saw a civilian orthopedic surgeon. He scoped my knee and said, and I quote " I don't know who told you that your knee was fine, but your ACL is torn, as is your MCL and LCL!

I was devastated of course. 20 years old with visions of a professional baseball career now gone.

I was in a full, hinged polio type leg brace for two years. I could only take it off to shower or to sleep.

Fast forward to when my brace was finally taken off. I had a Lenox Hill brace that I would wear it for sports. It took me almost a year to gain the confidence to run or skate. I was petrified of the thought of having a relapse with my knee and going through all the pain and rehab all over again.

So, if in fact Tre is extremely gun-shy right now, I for one have firsthand understanding and compassion for him and why he is feeling this way.

It is a tough mental hurdle to get over. ESPECIALLY in a fast, high contact sport. 

Take your time Tre, football can wait. 
 

I’m certainly not saying you’re wrong. But you’re comparing your situation (1980s medical and a service connected/sponsored sports team) to the NFL (current medical advancements/multi-billion dollar industry). 30+ years in medical advancements alone make it not comparable. 

[Rico]

No chance OBJ comes here if Tre is pushed into doing something he doesn’t want to do.

[boyst]

Just now, Rico said:

No chance OBJ comes here if Tre is pushed into doing something he doesn’t want to do.

This is also likely but not a factor in any decisions the Bills are making 

[CNYfan]

I would be surprised if we saw Groot, Epenesa, Elam, the Middle LB or Takeaway Tre on Thursday.   Josh and the boys will need to put up 35.  

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

 

Don't you think the team would rather get him back in a couple of weeks potentially and deal with any negatives (like fans being whiny *****; roster moves) until then?

 

Don't you think the team would be weighing everything on a week to week basis and would make the best decision for the team?

 

Glad you aren't the decision-maker, willing to IR someone who could help you down the stretch and who may be available in the coming weeks.

 

In your words, he has to play or be placed on IR. this is simply wrong. And idiotic. 

 

He has been available.

 

He is not playing.

 

And you’re good with that with the way some of our players are laying it on the line?

 

Tommy Doyle finished the Miami game with a torn ACL.

 

Why?

 

Because the team NEEDED him.

 

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, Deadstroke said:

Hey, I'm a homer and been loving and defending my team for many years.  I'm usually always in a player's corner when he may be questioned for underperforming; but this thing with Tre has gone on too long.  The latest reports now have him fully healthy but perhaps not too confident of his health/current abilities. 

 

He's getting paid a ton of money and it's time to earn it now when the team really need him.  The pass defense is getting abused big time.  It's time for Tre to show up and help out.

Hey everyone is losing patience but it’s management’s responsibility to get him out there. Jobs are on the line if we can’t keep winning. If the guy has been cleared to play, do you think he’s telling them he’s not ready mentally? Get him out there, with a brace if necessary, and spot him limited reps. Get him a sports psychologist to build him up. Let’s go, it’s a year already. He’s a free agent soon.

[Matt_In_NH]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I definitely wouldn't play on Detroit's field. Considered one of the worst in football 

Really, should they forfeit?

[nedboy7]

He might be medically cleared but still feel weakness or tightness enough to where he feels uncomfortable going at 100%.  Happens all the time. Doesn’t mean he is creating drama in his head. 

[Returntoglory]

3 minutes ago, KellyToTasker said:

I’m certainly not saying you’re wrong. But you’re comparing your situation (1980s medical and a service connected/sponsored sports team) to the NFL (current medical advancements/multi-billion dollar industry). 30+ years in medical advancements alone make it not comparable. 

My point is the MENTAL aspect of the surgery and recovery. Mentally it's the same today as it was in the 80's and before. "

Medical advancement aside, it's his head(possibly) that is the issue.

[BruceVilanch]

52 minutes ago, hemma said:

If he doesn’t take the field against the Pats, might be time to get him a colorful set of Pom Poms..

Sabres could use a goalie.

[The Avenger]

He's on track to return the Monday after never...

[DrDawkinstein]

59 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s not over a year, it won’t even be a year until thanksgiving.  
 

No two players recover the same. 
 

Tre is not why we have 3 losses.  All 3 losses are on the offense and Bass.

 

Playoffs are substantially more important than regular season.  

 

I mean, sure. This is the same list of convenient excuses folks have been making for the past month, and I guess will continue to make as this goes into the last quarter of the season.

 

I understand my place as a fan, meaning, nothing I say or ask really affects anything in the Bills' lives, so I dont think it's unreasonable to be wondering what is going on and when he'll be coming back. Especially when it is our Defensive Secondary unit that has been demolished by injuries and we are desperate for serviceable players.

 

I'm curious at what point you would start asking? You waiting until the playoffs to question it? The Pats game?

 

I'll be waiting to see, just like you. But damn, already...

[Nineforty]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

He has been available.

 

He is not playing.

 

And you’re good with that with the way some of our players are laying it on the line?

 

Tommy Doyle finished the Miami game with a torn ACL.

 

Why?

 

Because the team NEEDED him.

 

 

Yes. With what is known and not known at this time, yup.

 

And let's say it was all mental and the team decided they can't deal with this this season and IR'ED him, I would:

A. Understand.

B. Not be mad or critical of Tre White. 

 

I don't believe Tre is out there stealing money. I trust the Bills to do what is best for team and player. They have earned that from me. He has earned that in his short time from me as a fan. 

[WyoAZBillfan]

I guess Tre is no Boobie Miles at this point. He’ll be back when he’s ready, I’m sure his team mates will welcome him back just the same if he sits another game or two. 

[KellyToTasker]

Just now, Returntoglory said:

My point is the MENTAL aspect of the surgery and recovery. Mentally it's the same today as it was in the 80's and before. "

Medical advancement aside, it's his head(possibly) that is the issue.

Doctors, teams, players have much more confidence in today’s procedures/rehab. He is falling into the exception category. 

[Deadstroke]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think you need to clarify what those "latest reports" to which you refer are about.

 

I think those "latest reports" are all speculation from outside the building - you know, the same sources that had Allen out for 3-4 weeks with a UCL

He is at practice with no injury designation.

[Airseven]

18 minutes ago, wppete said:

Tredavious relaxing in the hot tub counting the $$$$. 

 

Saffold and Bates may as well be counting their $$$$ in that very same hot tub.