Josh vs. Herbert and Mahomes…

[transient]

Herbert certainly showed a lot of moxie last night. He was clearly in a lot of pain and despite that was able to make those two great throws on the TD drive. I haven’t watched him a ton, but when I have he’s always seemed kind of emotionless. One of the things that elevate Allen and Mahomes is their competitiveness, which is clearly evident in their actions and behavior… their teams feed off of it… Herbert seems pretty vanilla in that regard to me. 

[Craig Oi]

6 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I gotta be honest I think I take Lamar over Herbert

I'd take Burrow over both of those guys but not Allen or Mahomes.

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Craig Oi

[TH3]

42 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I'd love to see him on a different team and see how he does. He's going to get paid a ***** ton of money either way.

He wants fully guaranteed because he runs and gets hurt…that’s his game.  Will see have that translates to getting another team to do that.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not planning to say disparaging things about another QB to prop Josh up. I think Josh Allen is fantastic. I think that Patrick Mahomes is too. Justin Herbert is great but is less accomplished at this point. They are all a little different but QBs that you can consistently win with. Bills fans, Chiefs fans and Chargers fans should be thrilled.

 

Agreed but um 😐 can I still call him Kermit?

 

[HOUSE]

10 hours ago, Dopey said:

Here you go guys, have at it 

Geez. 

This question is very hard to answer so my answer is MAYBE

[Tanoros]

9 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Herbert lacks agility that the other two have. That's the only reason I can come up with as to why he seems to refuse or be unable to make plays with his legs. He also doesn't even scramble behind the line much either. Not a lot of "secondary reaction" plays. Not like Allen and Mahomes anyway.

 

That said, in terms of just pure throwing ability, reading the defense and executing the play as designed Herbert is second to none in that regard. 

Herbert’s next step is learning pre play where he wants to go, and manipulating the defense to make the throw more open. Herbert goes through his reads and very fast, but when they are covered, he’s out of his element. 

[Doc]

His mistake last night was not realizing that Everett was gassed and wouldn't be at 100%.  And Staley is just dumb sometimes.  They were playing up tempo, when milking the clock would have been better, and couldn't give Everett time to be subbed out.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The difference between the 3 QBs I feel is Mahomes and Allen can do more when things break down around them.

 

 Herbert is step behind them in that area. 

[transient]

38 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

Agreed but um 😐 can I still call him Kermit?

 

Is it being done in the interest of propping Josh up? If not, I think it’s allowable. 

 

[wjag]

Mahomes just wins

Allen finds way to win

Herbert wants to win

[Kirby Jackson]

54 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

Agreed but um 😐 can I still call him Kermit?

 

Yep!!

 

Andrew Luck was great too but he sounded like an ogre

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Nostradamus Dopey

 

GMFB just made this comparison on the show

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

 Allen is better angry runner than Herbert.  

 

It's starting to get to the point where Herbert just isn't a runner at all. It's one of the baffling things about him. Maybe @Alphadawg7 is correct about him not wanting contact. He doesn't threaten first downs with his legs. Even Mahomes has used his legs for first downs a lot more than Herbert the last couple of seasons. Although thus far this year Mahomes has yet to do so. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

It's starting to get to the point where Herbert just isn't a runner at all. He doesn't threaten first downs with his legs. Even Mahomes has used his legs for first downs a lot more than Herbert the last couple of seasons. Although thus far this year Mahomes has yet to do so. 

Mahomes uses his legs mostly to throw. His 2 TDs are what makes him special.

 

 

[SoMAn]

11 hours ago, Dopey said:

Here you go guys, have at it 

Geez. 

Allen's woman is hotter than anything those two have had and Mahome's brother is an @-hole. End of discussion.

Edited September 16, 2022 by SoMAn

[Bruffalo]

15 minutes ago, wjag said:

Mahomes just wins

With a little help from his friends in Black & White.  
 

He's a fantastic QB but he's got the Brady effect now, refs give him the benefit of the doubt (probably unconsciously).  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

he probably will. 
No doubt 

 

the question is what team?

 

 

Miami makes a lot of sense. Maybe the Bills shouldn't totally destroy Tua twice this season. Let him have an average game so Miami sticks with him. But I am not that concerned about Lamar either way.

[clayboy54]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yep!!

 

Andrew Luck was great too but he sounded like an ogre

for about 15 minutes, Luck was great. I think in retrospect he had a head issue.

[DasNootz]

The Chargers and Herbert are a photocopied version of the Bills and Allen.  They're really similar, but not quite as sharp.

 

Mahomes is a point guard playing QB that can also throw it a mile.  His ability to elude tackles and throw from any angle is unmatched.  Allen and Mahomes are different QBs, but both are winners and the best in the game.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

His mistake last night was not realizing that Everett was gassed and wouldn't be at 100%.  And Staley is just dumb sometimes.  They were playing up tempo, when milking the clock would have been better, and couldn't give Everett time to be subbed out.

 

I thought I noticed the same thing. Everett had just made back to back receptions IIRC. One for a lot of YAC. Dude looked gas on that goal line play that ended in the pick 6. Kind of just stumbling off the line while the Chargers were going up tempo. 

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Mahomes uses his legs mostly to throw. His 2 TDs are what makes him special.

 

 

 

I forget the exact stat but in 2020 or maybe the last two seasons no QB had converted more 3rd and 10+ with their legs than Mahomes. He'll take off an run. Herbert just doesn't do that. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

34 minutes ago, Doc said:

His mistake last night was not realizing that Everett was gassed and wouldn't be at 100%.  And Staley is just dumb sometimes.  They were playing up tempo, when milking the clock would have been better, and couldn't give Everett time to be subbed out.

 

Yea after the pick it looked like Everett was about to collapse.  

 

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

Mahomes and Allen are basically even to me. They both make all kinds off script throws, using different arm angles, are accurate to every level of the field, and their arm strength allows them to make throws into other windows that other QB's just can't. I do believe that Josh is the better athlete of the two, and therefore more dangerous. But as far as actual QB play, throwing the football, reading defenses, and whatnot, I have them dead even. They are clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the QB's in this league. 

 

Herbert is still growing as a QB. He's got every tool you would want in a Franchise QB. To me though, every time I watch him play, it just seems like he doesn't have that same killer instinct that you see with Mahomes and Allen. If the game is close in the end, and you need a single game winning drive, Mahomes and Allen are by far the best in the NFL. Herbert just doesn't seem to have that same fire and that "it" factor to me. He will have a long, successful career in the NFL. But right now, I don't put him in the same tier as Allen and Mahomes. 

 

Except Mahomes seems to have INTs dropped like magic when he throws balls directly to DBs. "Stonehands" Samuel dropped two wide open INTs on balls thrown right to him last night.  Mahomes tied for NFL lead with Ryan in 2020 with 19 dropped INT's, had an "off" year with 10 last year and is picking up where he left off this year.  

 

Meanwhile Allen is having DB's making diving INTs and toe tap INTs on the sidelines falling out of bounds, SMFH

Edited September 16, 2022 by Big Turk

[Ralonzo]

Allen used to gun it a lot more, it made for tougher catches for his receivers but also for DBs.

 

Credit Allen for throwing a more catchable, YAC-friendly ball for the uptick in INTs. 

[Nextmanup]

I wonder if people here picking Allen over the other 2 has anything to do with Josh playing on the Bills.

 

🤔

[Captain Hindsight]

30 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I wonder if people here picking Allen over the other 2 has anything to do with Josh playing on the Bills.

 

🤔

Sure, but he is also recognized by a lot of people in the media and the league as the best QB in the league. Its not like were trying to convince ourselves EJ Manuel can hang with these guys 

[Ray Stonada]

Herbert also has a slower release than Josh and Pat.

[YoloinOhio]

Just be glad that Miami picked Tua over Herbert 

[TheBrownBear]

Herbert reminds me of Marino.  Stands tall in the pocket and can throw a beautiful ball, but I wonder if he isn't missing that extra special something that takes you from great passer to great leader.  Time will tell.

[mjt328]

Taking off my homer glasses...Patrick Mahomes probably gets the edge over Josh Allen because:

1. He has been elite for 4 full seasons.  Allen took a few years to develop, and has been elite for the last 2 seasons. 
2. His team has a 4-1 edge in head-to-head matchups, including twice in the playoffs.
3. He has a Super Bowl trophy and an MVP, while Allen is still chasing both.

 

Herbert is well below both guys.  He makes some great throws, and is clearly a QB on the rise.  

But there are times that Allen/Mahomes simply cannot be defended.  I've never seen him hit that level.  

Not to mention, he still hasn't even led his team to the playoffs.  

 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 hours ago, Rampage said:

Three great QBs.

 

Done.

Exactly. Comparison is the thief of joy.

 

but if I had to, until they win a SB and MVp, it’s 1 - Mahomes 2 - Allen 3 - Hebert. 
 

i also think Herbert is becoming incredibly overrated but man, does he has some beautiful dime passes.

29 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Sure, but he is also recognized by a lot of people in the media and the league as the best QB in the league. Its not like were trying to convince ourselves EJ Manuel can hang with these guys 

If EJ had a better coaching staff maybe!!!

Edited September 16, 2022 by C.Biscuit97

[Dablitzkrieg]

I love all 3.  But Josh is my fav

[Mr. Irrelevant]

After watching last night's Chargers/Chiefs game I was both impressed and underwhelmed by both QBs.  Herbert threw some great passes late, but was inaccurate early.  He also threw the egregious pick that decided the game and in the direction of a completely gassed receiver.  

Mahomes' crazy athleticism is something to watch, but he threw a pass into the endzone that he was very lucky didn't get returned 100 yds. for a TD.  

Neither team had a pass rush that is as scary as Buffalo's.  

Overall, the Chargers were more impressive, and the last ditch on-side kick almost worked.  

[HOUSE]

14 hours ago, Dopey said:

Here you go guys, have at it 

Geez. 

What is this, a text??

[LABILLBACKER]

1. Allen

2. Mahomes 

3. Herbert 

 

Josh is the cyborg sent from the future. He does it all.  Mahomes is extremely talented but as we all saw last night ( should've been 3 INT's) he gets his breaks. Herbert is amazing but very robotic in his progressions.    As I said last year these will be your top 3 qbs for the next decade. There's no one in the NFC the concerns me once Brady & Rodgers retire.

Edited September 16, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[FireChans]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Exactly. Comparison is the thief of joy.

 

but if I had to, until they win a SB and MVp, it’s 1 - Mahomes 2 - Allen 3 - Hebert. 
 

i also think Herbert is becoming incredibly overrated but man, does he has some beautiful dime passes.

If EJ had a better coaching staff maybe!!!

Yes x 1 million.

 

I like Herbert. Think he's a good QB.  But he gets talked about, well, like he's on the level of Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes except he has nowhere close to the same level of success.

 

Like I know QB wins is a grain of salt stat, but can you get to the wild card before we say you're one of the best QB's in football?

[TheBrownBear]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yes x 1 million.

 

I like Herbert. Think he's a good QB.  But he gets talked about, well, like he's on the level of Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes except he has nowhere close to the same level of success.

 

Like I know QB wins is a grain of salt stat, but can you get to the wild card before we say you're one of the best QB's in football?

I agree and I like Herbert.  But he hasn't made the playoffs and it's not like he doesn't have a ton of talent around him.  I don't quite understand how that team hasn't been more dominant over the past couple of years.  

[Bruffalo]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yes x 1 million.

 

I like Herbert. Think he's a good QB.  But he gets talked about, well, like he's on the level of Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes except he has nowhere close to the same level of success.

 

Like I know QB wins is a grain of salt stat, but can you get to the wild card before we say you're one of the best QB's in football?

Imagine how bad Herbert would have looked without Mike Williams out there making circus catches too.  

 

I'm not saying Herbert is bad at all, and I agree with you that he's a good to maybe great QB. 

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

1. Allen

2. Mahomes 

3. Herbert 

 

Josh is the cyborg sent from the future. He does it all.  Mahomes is extremely talented but as we all saw last night ( should've been 3 INT's) he gets his breaks. Herbert is amazing but very robotic in his progressions.    As I said last year these will be your top 3 qbs for the next decade. There's no one in the NFC the concerns me once Brady & Rodgers retire.

 

Actually should have 4....2 drops by "Stonehands" Samuel, a phantom illegal contact penalty erased one and offsetting penalties erased another.

 

Allen is what you would get if the best scientists in the world all got together and built the perfect QB in a lab and then went through like 4 or 5 prototypes before getting to the finished product.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Big Turk

[Paup 1995MVP]

14 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Allen is much more elusive than Herbert is when he has the ball and is running. If you watched Allen run the 40, it was clear he could easily gain at least 0.2 seconds on his time simply by starting properly...he had one of the worst starts to a 40 yard dash I have ever seen.

 

Herbert has the ability to move but definitely isn't fluid like Allen is and doesn't have the ability to make defenders look silly the same way either by making them miss.

 

Herbert and Allen are not in the same discussion.  Allen is just better in all facets of the game.  It was obvious after watching Herbert last nite.  The Chargers are going to turn him into a dink and dunker.  

[DJB]

14 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Allen beats them both with one hand tied behind his back.

Yeah his right hand too!!!!