Josh vs. Herbert and Mahomes…

[Dopey]

Here you go guys, have at it 

Geez. 

[Rampage]

Three great QBs.

 

Done.

[Big Turk]

Allen can do things the other two cannot. Neither of them can do things that Allen cannot.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

It’s unfair if you’re comparing Allen to Herbert AND Mahomes. Obviously 2 is better than 1. 

[GoBills808]

Allen

Mahomes

 

significant drop

 

Herbert

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

It’s unfair if you’re comparing Allen to Herbert AND Mahomes. Obviously 2 is better than 1. 

Tell that to the folks on the chargers vs chiefs thread 

[Warcodered]

[Don Otreply]

In a fist fight? I choose Josh…,

[Andy1]

Allen and Mahomes are artists on the field creating plays that weren’t in the design of the play call. Mahomes did it on his short TD pass. Herbert looks like a technically proficient QB who plays the position by the book. When things break down, I haven’t seen him create offense tonight. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Herbert is taller than Allen, just as big of an arm. It’s obvious that his strength is standing in the pocket and throwing dart like passes, while occasionally loading up and going deep.

 

Allen plays with more outward emotion, of course is more coordinated as a runner, and despite running 0.10s slower than Herbert in the 40-yard dash, his game speed is faster. 
 

Similar in that both are best with protection and able to rifle passes in a straight line. 

[Doc]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Herbert is taller than Allen, just as big of an arm. It’s obvious that his strength is standing in the pocket and throwing dart like passes, while occasionally loading up and going deep.

 

Allen plays with more outward emotion, of course is more coordinated as a runner, and despite running 0.10s slower than Herbert in the 40-yard dash, his game speed is faster. 
 

Similar in that both are best with protection and able to rifle passes in a straight line. 

 

Josh has a stronger arm and is a better/more violent scrambler.  He would have (run for and) gotten that first down on that last Chargers drive.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Andy1 said:

Allen and Mahomes are artists on the field creating plays that weren’t in the design of the play call. Mahomes did it on his short TD pass. Herbert looks like a technically proficient QB who plays the position by the book. When things break down, I haven’t seen him create offense tonight. 

A perfect example of this was the 3rd and 2 play right after the two minute warning. If Mahomes or Allen get to the outside like that it's an automatic first down - either by run or pass. Herbert hesitated on the throw and then fell down.

 

 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Mahomes vision is the best in the AFC and really only Brady can compare. 

Just now, Doc said:

 

Josh has a stronger arm and is a better/more violent scrambler.  He would have (run for and) gotten that first down on that last Chargers drive.

I disagree on the arm strength, but agree on the running.

Herbert actually looks like he’s playing at a lower weight this year. 

[Dopey]

I have to remind myself Justin is in his 3rd year. 
Josh in his 5th

Mahomes in his 6th

I’m in a wait and see mode 

[Freddie's Dead]

Allen beats them both with one hand tied behind his back.

[Big Turk]

16 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Herbert is taller than Allen, just as big of an arm. It’s obvious that his strength is standing in the pocket and throwing dart like passes, while occasionally loading up and going deep.

 

Allen plays with more outward emotion, of course is more coordinated as a runner, and despite running 0.10s slower than Herbert in the 40-yard dash, his game speed is faster. 
 

Similar in that both are best with protection and able to rifle passes in a straight line. 

 

Allen is much more elusive than Herbert is when he has the ball and is running. If you watched Allen run the 40, it was clear he could easily gain at least 0.2 seconds on his time simply by starting properly...he had one of the worst starts to a 40 yard dash I have ever seen.

 

Herbert has the ability to move but definitely isn't fluid like Allen is and doesn't have the ability to make defenders look silly the same way either by making them miss.

 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I disagree on the arm strength, but agree on the running.

Herbert actually looks like he’s playing at a lower weight this year. 

Josh has the strongest arm ever recorded at 74 MPH. Justin Herbert is 66.

[finn]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

Josh has the strongest arm ever recorded at 74 MPH. Justin Herbert is 66.

Where did you see this? 

[Augie]

I’d stick one on the practice squad. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Good point, according to this Allen was 62-mph at Combine, Herbert and Mahomes were 55-mph.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

Mahomes can throw it a mile though, look that that throw. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Good point, according to this Allen was 62-mph at Combine, Herbert and Mahomes were 55-mph.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

I’ll take it. I saw John Brenkus from Sports Science say they clocked him at 74 mph.  I didn’t see that they tested Herbert but I did see 66 mph at the Senior Bowl. 

[Big Turk]

Mahomes has more easily dropped INTs than any QB I have ever seen. I mean he throws the ball directly to Samuel with no Chiefs around and two other Chargers and he ends up not catching it cleanly and has to dice for it and it gets overturned on replay review...

 

Then Mahomes throws a TD. Should have been an INT and then turns into a TD later...

 

Had a ton of them last year as well.

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

I’ll take it. I saw John Brenkus from Sports Science say they clocked him at 74 mph.  I didn’t see that they tested Herbert but I did see 66 mph at the Senior Bowl. 

 

Yeah he said it was so.much harder than anyone they have ever seen they double and triple checked the radar gun because they figured it had to be broken because that reading had to be wrong...

Edited September 16, 2022 by Big Turk

[gobills404]

I think they’re all in the same tier as passers but Mahomes and Herbert are a little more consistent. That being said, Josh’s running ability and the dawg he has in him add a whole different dynamic to defending him that the others don’t.

[BigAl2526]

Tonight's game - Chargers vs. KC certainly gives Josh room to open up a lead in the MVP race.  Both Mahomes and Herbert have had some good plays, but they have been far from spectacular.

Edited September 22, 2022 by BigAl2526

[boyst]

Lol Herbert. Pick 6. Woah

[KDIGGZ]

I don't understand why Herbert is even in the convo. What has he ever done? Not clutch, no big wins. Mahomes is like a sandlot player, just makes the play. Josh is something unlike either because he can do what they can but he can also be Derrick Henry if needed. He just needs to be consistent, which he has been the past 3-4 games

[Mr. WEO]

30 minutes ago, Doc said:

I’ll take it. I saw John Brenkus from Sports Science say they clocked him at 74 mph.  I didn’t see that they tested Herbert but I did see 66 mph at the Senior Bowl. 

 

 

Not a meaningful stat.  Josh with a 62 at the combine.  no real difference between him and Mayfield, Logan Thomas, "Bryan Bennett" at 60 and a ton of bums at 59.

 

It's a more meaningful questions of how far a QB can throw a ball 60+ mph.

[ToGoGo]

4 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

I don't understand why Herbert is even in the convo. What has he ever done? Not clutch, no big wins. Mahomes is like a sandlot player, just makes the play. Josh is something unlike either because he can do what they can but he can also be Derrick Henry if needed. He just needs to be consistent, which he has been the past 3-4 games

 

The media ballwashed him from Day One because the Chargers just moved to LA and the NFL wanted a star there. 

 

Fans just parrot whatever the media says. Most of them. 

[Big Turk]

In a must win game there is nobody I am taking over Allen. He plays his best when the stakes are highest. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I still think Patty Ice is ahead of Allen, but we are taking 2 elite QBs. 

[Captain Hindsight]

14 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

I don't understand why Herbert is even in the convo. What has he ever done? Not clutch, no big wins. Mahomes is like a sandlot player, just makes the play. Josh is something unlike either because he can do what they can but he can also be Derrick Henry if needed. He just needs to be consistent, which he has been the past 3-4 games

Herbert has put up some crazy stats. Dude is a really talented player and should be in the conversation as a top QB. He’s on his way to being a big stat guy only if he can’t win some big games and get his team to the playoffs. Josh or Mahomes on that roster are winning 13 games every year 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, Captain Hindsight said:

Herbert has put up some crazy stats. Dude is a really talented player and should be in the conversation as a top QB. He’s on his way to being a big stat guy only if he can’t win some big games and get his team to the playoffs. Josh or Mahomes on that roster are winning 13 games every year 

So he's Dan Marino? I remember even Marino being more clutch and making the playoffs almost every year 

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Not a meaningful stat.  Josh with a 62 at the combine.  no real difference between him and Mayfield, Logan Thomas, "Bryan Bennett" at 60 and a ton of bums at 59.

 

It's a more meaningful questions of how far a QB can throw a ball 60+ mph.

 

Sure it's a meaningful stat, when talking about a QB like Josh.  Not those schlubs you mentioned. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Sure it's a meaningful stat, when talking about a QB like Josh.  Not those schlubs you mentioned. 

 

this makes no sense, but ok...lol

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Herbert is taller than Allen, just as big of an arm. It’s obvious that his strength is standing in the pocket and throwing dart like passes, while occasionally loading up and going deep.

 

Allen plays with more outward emotion, of course is more coordinated as a runner, and despite running 0.10s slower than Herbert in the 40-yard dash, his game speed is faster. 
 

Similar in that both are best with protection and able to rifle passes in a straight line. 

The guy known for darts in the pocket missed quite a few big time throws tonight 

[Captain Hindsight]

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

So he's Dan Marino? I remember even Marino being more clutch and making the playoffs almost every year 

Maybe? He’s a good player and think many GMs would be happy he was their QB. I agree that he hasn’t really accomplished anything with a very talented roster each year. The chargers are stacked. Anything less than a playoff appearance is a disappointment 

[Doc]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

this makes no sense, but ok...lol

 

OK, let me explain it to you.  When talking about a lousy passer like those guys you mentioned, it's meaningless.  When talking about good passers like Josh, Mahomes and Herbert, it's not meaningless.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The guy known for darts in the pocket missed quite a few big time throws tonight 

See that last throw?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

See that last throw?

I did…great throw but he still missed some easy third down conversions they just had to have.  

Edited September 16, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

OK, let me explain it to you.  When talking about a lousy passer like those guys you mentioned, it's meaningless.  When talking about good passers like Josh, Mahomes and Herbert, it's not meaningless.

 

you've only proven that mph doesn't make one a great passer (neither does "arm strength" for that matter).  And it doesn't separate him from Mahomes, for instance.