Bills show what a class organization they are

[fasteddie]

33 minutes ago, HiMark said:

Bonus points for correctly using to, too and two in the same sentence.

And doing it correctly! 

[pennstate10]

2 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I mostly agree, but I'd still pump the breaks just a tiny bit, as we can't confirm for sure what they knew before even drafting him, or how much they knew the past couple months.

 

Some reports suggest other teams were aware of certain things about this case pre-draft (hence the best punting prospect in ages being the 3rd off the board), and others say the Bills were made aware of aspects as early as June.

 

I really don't know, but I'd just caution heaping too much praise right away. Still, they do deserve credit for moving on this quickly, and that is something I 100% support.

Despite his nickname, Araiza wasn’t the best punting prospect in ages. 
He wasn’t even the best punting prospect in 2022 draft. 
JordanStout from PSU had a better net average than Araiza.  Stout had a far better hang time.  And more punts downed inside the 20.  Total return yardage for Stouts punts were about 26 yds; return yards for Araiza punts were 200+ yds and a couple TDs. 

[Draconator]

30 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

And doing it correctly! 

So I guess that failing English grade as a high school freshman was a misnomer? 

[Bills!Win!]

So who picks up Araiza, Browns, Cowboys Raiders or Patriots? Those teams are known for bringing on outcasts 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think it’s silly to say The bills are a class organization because they released MA 

 

When they have a alleged murderer on the wall of fame and another player with who got arrested for domestic abuse

 

Now I’m not saying those things make them a classless organization… But They are a football organization

 

They generally do what they think is in the best interest of the team… I didn’t think them keeping Dodson made them classless… Tho some certainly did

 

And I don’t equate them cutting MA to class

 

 

This.

 

They made a business decision.

 

Football is a cutthroat business by nature.   You can't hide your "classy" decisions on the football field.

[Bangarang]

They cut him because this became a national story and we were getting mercilessly scrutinized. We did it to save face. It was still the right thing to do.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Bangarang

[Solomon Grundy]

Thankfully those Von Miller accusations were solved quickly 

[marck]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Jesus are you serious? 

Yes I’m very serious, might I actually get an opinion with a justification.

[BigDingus]

I see I touched a nerve simply expressing a bit of restraint on giving too much credit.

 

Feels like people like setting themselves up for disappointment. Imagine if tomorrow Washington Post releases some emails where Beane dismisses concerns about the legal investigation dated in June... then how would boasting about the great morals of the Bills be?

 

Not saying it would happen, just leave SOME room for human error. This post paints the entire Bills organization & everyone involved like a shining beacon of morality, something we know better than to do.

 

Hell, I didn't even disagree with the OP, but hey... get mad for me passing on a friendly reminder 😅

Edited August 28, 2022 by BigDingus

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

The criminal case began the day after the alleged rape.  9 days later the cops were taking a pretext call to Araiza.

 

The Bills firing was inevitable.  The Bills knew a civil suit was coming weeks ago.  Their “thorough investigation” would have made them aware of many of the details of the suit.  Yet the still did nothing, other than cut last year’s punter. 
 

Then, after a massive and predictable PR disaster follows once the public is aware of what the Bills already knew about this whole thing, and with no new info….they cut him.

 

Real class.

 

No disrespect, but this is my point.  People keep posting stuff like this that is inaccurate.  Your post here is not accurate, its not your fault, but its not correct.  Your outrage is being guided at incorrect info.  

[Southern bills]

4 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Possibly. They could have held on to both until Tuesday and cut Haack then though; bought some time to see if anything else came out.

 

As you say, perhaps they decided there were enough free agent punters and those who will appear on waivers that we considered ourselves in a better position cutting Haack whatever the outcome with Araiza.

 

I think he was gone either way after multiple mishaps last year. This was the bills cutting him earlier than need be so he could try and catch on somewhere else after a disappointing season

[Warcodered]

31 minutes ago, marck said:

Yes I’m very serious, might I actually get an opinion with a justification.

I think the rule with vampires is you're not supposed to invite them in. 😉

[DrPJax]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

They did.  Class act for sure.  Another scum FO will pick him up
 

@DrPJax did you say you would stop being a bills fan if the FO did this?

No , I said if they used the words “ we are doing the CLASSY “ thing as their only reason, I would lose faith and repeat for them, and if that was their reason to cut a struggling  in crisis young man , I would not follow them just like if they had signed Watson. “ Being “ classy” has nothing to do with their move. It is based on culture fir the organization,.   Not some flashy word ;   plus as more info came out it looks like the police possibly withheld vital  info , perhaps even from the university as it is looking more like criminal charges  may now be in the works. All I was stating was be thorough, complete the investigation, and they took 48 hours to do so. It was obvious it was going to drag on more.  Show me where they used being “ classy “ in their decision.  Don’t try to twist my words.  I also expressed  that if evidence was proven true , I wanted him off the team.  But if the FO flippantly said this was a classy move , like you said , that is the epitome of mass hysteria, unprofessional management and just being simplistic minded.  There is no class involved here.  It’s business related , it’s a personal tragedy for a young man and the victim and it’s for the culture presently established and for the future culture for the team to be consistent and move ahead.   Classy is doing something to sit in with a trend or a style of dress is “ classy”, not deciding with little analysis on a young man’s future.   This was after gathering all possible info. and not indicative of some  jerk reactions. Beane  and Mcd both still spoke respectfully about him as he faces challenges ahead.  
 

Go read all of my posts , not take things out of context.  It also came out they have been struggling with getting more info since July. Fans may use things like “class” act;  there is no class system in business.  It’s professional behavior to protect investments and goal oriented. It is  Not about being perceived as “ classy “ as that term has no monetary or legal value.  Again , show me where Beane or Mcd said they released ariza because it was the “ classy “ thing to do ! That’s your way of attempting to say “ I was right “ and that has no place in corporate decision making.  They don’t draft or keep or release a player because it’s “ classy”!  It’s a business and also a moral based decision.  Parts of  This same fan base is so “classy “ they have begged for sociopaths like Antonio brown to be on the squad.while I have consistently opposed such destructive actions for short term gain !
  It’s not about bring an “ act” as that implies being less than truthful. It’s about being a professional organization with a mission statement and being sustainable!  This is a multibillion $ company and they have the resources and TIME to do things according to their mission and not making judgements based on fans calling for being “ classy “ on a moments notice! That’s how  I have seen great companies succeed.  Once more evidence ( their words ) was coming out and things are looking more like criminal filings will happen, they made a mature decision decisively and I was always good with that. Hey , they knew about the civil action POSSIBILITY , and still only acted after it became reality and not theoretically possible.  They were visibly shaken , and took no pleasure or joy in doing this and I’m sure they didn’t feel “ classy “ making that hard decision.  I respect that , but not someone twisting my words as some attempt as a got ya moment!  
 

No one wins in these tragic human behavior examples and real lives , families are suffering.  Think about that rather than trying to gloat and you might  grow as a person.  Nice try , but it’s a shallow trait and no one wins, not even you.  That’s the reality and has nothing to do with “ being classy”. 😉 I will remain a Bills fan just as I have since’ 63, and it’s obvious they did the hard thing to do and they did it with much thought and as much investigation as they reasonably could while facing a press corp trying for click bait and being critical that it somehow should have been easier and more immediate.  Where was this great holier than  thou press contingent when Ariza was drafted if they are so infallible?  Being in medicine for 40 plus years I have been honored to be allowed to experience  loss, death of close friends/ patents, DV, child and sexual abuse, addiction , depression and suicide, aging and cancer and most of life’s hardest moments in the company of my cherished patients. None of life’s great challenges reaches resolution because it was the “ classy” solution responsible.  That is not real hunan emotion.or how tragic things resolve.  Just my humble opinion., and I don’t apologize for my experiences as I have empathy for both victim and Ariza just beginning their life’s journey. Best wishes. 

[BobbyC81]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

100%.  Class act all the way.  Not just today, but even not rushing to judgement on Matt and trying to find out facts recognizing this was an accusation prior to this.  

 

I completely applaud everything they have done in the handling of this.  Even how McD handled the post game PC refusing to talk football and only talk about this because this is bigger than a game.  

 

Beane and McD handling of the press conference too was all class act despite some sleezy attempts by reporters to force narratives to try and paint a bad picture for click bait headlines.  

 

Proud this is the team I am a massive fan of.  

I’m 100% behind this decision but 5 years from now, most everyone will have  forgotten about it.   Wins and losses are remembered 

[machine gun kelly]

They did the best to manage a bad situation.  That’s it.  I think McD was hit personally the way he responded in the presser.  
 

The bottom line is it’s over for us fans, but not for all parties involved in this scenario.

[CSBill]

I love the Buffalo Bills. I've been a diehard fan of them longer than most people on this broad have been alive. My loyalty to them will not change because of this situation.

 

BUT, to say they handled this with class, I'm not there yet.

 

What bothers me, is they at least new about this since July 29. Why was there not an urgency then? At that point, their actions indicate that football was more important than life. Do a Google search on the topic and, depending on how one classifies it, experts report that no more than 10%, to as low as 2%, of all rape accusations are falsified. So, even in the best of odds, 9 out of 10 accusations are proven true. That fact alone should have caused the Bills to move into an accelerated gear to get to the truth and put a pause on their loyalty to Araiza.

 

I realize I do not know much about what they did or did not do at that point. But the evidence is clear it was not enough to convince them to keep from moving forward with Araiza.

 

I think the world of Beane and McDermott, and the Pegulas, and what they have done for this team. But I can't give a shallow fan nod to them on this and say "good work, way to put this behind us, now let's get on with winning football games."

 

Bills fans, don't think for a minute the national media and public's general response to this is going to commend the Bills for how well they handled it. In their eyes, the Bills and the Browns are now the same thing. Get use to it.

 

The lack of urgency and movement once they knew about the charges (charges that, once reported, prove to be true over 90% of the time) will leave a stench on this team.

 

I do believe that what happened in the organization after July 29 has to be accounted for. The actions of the team, in releasing Haack and committing to Araiza, do not scream "thorough investigation" or that they took the accusation as seriously as they should have when they first learned about it.

 

Sorry, as much as I respect what this regime has done for us, they fumbled this one and I cannot agree with anyone on here that thinks this justifies the label of "class organization." They convincingly and by their own doing, were not in this circumstance.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by CSBill

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

They did the best to manage a bad situation.  That’s it.  I think McD was hit personally the way he responded in the presser.  
 

The bottom line is it’s over for us fans, but not for all parties involved in this scenario.

Hopefully, but the way the plaintiff's lawyer is acting he seems to want to drag the Bills into it, accusing them of negligence and such. I wonder if they file a separate suit against the Bills.

[Billy Claude]

Given the nature of the accusations, this was absolutely predictable when the accusations came out and could not be easily refuted. Every team in the NFL would have done the same thing with a rookie punter, including the Browns and the Chiefs.  You can't give any special credit to Bills for releasing him.  A rookie punter is simply not worth the distraction.

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Billy Claude

[eball]

9 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

The only misstep for me is cutting Haack over Araiza. If they knew this was hanging over the latter, why cut the former when they did?

 

Yup, that’s where I’m at as well.  Very odd to cut Haack last Monday…it’s a head scratcher.

 

That aside, can’t argue with how they handled things once the suit was filed.

 

Grab another punter this week and we’re on to LA.

 

[Fabio9000]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

100%.  Class act all the way.  Not just today, but even not rushing to judgement on Matt and trying to find out facts recognizing this was an accusation prior to this.  

 

I completely applaud everything they have done in the handling of this.  Even how McD handled the post game PC refusing to talk football and only talk about this because this is bigger than a game.  

 

Beane and McD handling of the press conference too was all class act despite some sleezy attempts by reporters to force narratives to try and paint a bad picture for click bait headlines.  

 

Proud this is the team I am a massive fan of.  

Not even close, lol...read the D&C. The Bills need to take accountability for a culture that allowed an alleged rapist to stay on the team for four weeks while they cut their other option. Their "thorough" investigation was not thorough, and they appear to have gambled that this would blow over by the time they made their decision. Gilleon's criticisms of the organization need to be taken seriously. This is not how you handle a rape allegation against an employee. 

10 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I mostly agree, but I'd still pump the breaks just a tiny bit, as we can't confirm for sure what they knew before even drafting him, or how much they knew the past couple months.

 

Some reports suggest other teams were aware of certain things about this case pre-draft (hence the best punting prospect in ages being the 3rd off the board), and others say the Bills were made aware of aspects as early as June.

 

I really don't know, but I'd just caution heaping too much praise right away. Still, they do deserve credit for moving on this quickly, and that is something I 100% support.

Dunno if four weeks (July 31 to now) would be considered quick in the context of a rape allegation, particularly since they appear to have known (or should have known) that he admitted to having sex with her on his phone call, at least according to the D&C. If that report was out there and the Bills knew that the admission had been made, they knowingly contracted a guy who had admitted to statutory rape. 

[Fabio9000]

9 hours ago, HamSandwhich said:

Even if what you’re asserting is true. What did they actually say? He admits to having sex with her but does he know she’s underage? Is she someone who would lie about her age? Do you think people need to card everyone they have sex with? It’s not that cut and dry and you know that. 
 

Also, you’re never presumed guilty and then have to prove innocence in the court of law. It’s always the accuser that carry’s the weight of proving guilt. 

What you are pointing out just doesn't matter in the law. It is illegal, period, to have sex with someone under 18 in this instance, regardless of whether you knew the age of the minor. So yes, you're right...presume innocence, always. But it appears that in this case he admitted to statutory, and that's that. What else do we need to know when we have an audio admission of a crime? 

[Niagara Dude]

39 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Hopefully, but the way the plaintiff's lawyer is acting he seems to want to drag the Bills into it, accusing them of negligence and such. I wonder if they file a separate suit against the Bills.

It is possible because her lawyer will get very little from Matt now,  below are his words after Matt was cut,  calling them an enabler but the Bills cut ties so

 

that is not an enabler in my opinion

 

 

Attorney Dan Gilleon, who filed suit on behalf of “Jane Doe,” said in a statement to Times of San Diego:

The Buffalo Bills had no choice but to cut their young punter after so badly botching their response to our claim: they ignored us, as though what I warned them would happen could be avoided if they just kept their heads in the sand. This is what enablers do. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Niagara Dude

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

38 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Hopefully, but the way the plaintiff's lawyer is acting he seems to want to drag the Bills into it, accusing them of negligence and such. I wonder if they file a separate suit against the Bills.

That’s why i don’t understand how people are faulting the bills for not calling back the victim’s lawyer as part of the investigation.
 

 There was no purpose for him to contact the team except to somehow get the team involved in paying to settle the case. The Bills lawyers had to be concerned about any additional communications with him. 

[Fabio9000]

10 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

That’s why i don’t understand how people are faulting the bills for not calling back the victim’s lawyer as part of the investigation.
 

 There was no purpose for him to contact the team except to somehow get the team involved in paying to settle the case. The Bills lawyers had to be concerned about any additional communications with him. 

This probably gets too deep into the nature of corporations and how they behave, but just look at this from a criminal perspective: would you ever conduct a "thorough investigation" of an alleged crime without talking to the alleged victim? I mean, the answer is completely and utterly NO, but in the context of being a corporation that just needs to not look like monsters in the press, I suppose they did the bare minimum that would have avoided additional skewering in the national press. But yeah, if you want to know what happened in a crime you might do well to talk to the people who alleged the crime. 

[Beerball]

10 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I mostly agree, but I'd still pump the breaks just a tiny bit, as we can't confirm for sure what they knew before even drafting him, or how much they knew the past couple months.

 

Some reports suggest other teams were aware of certain things about this case pre-draft (hence the best punting prospect in ages being the 3rd off the board), and others say the Bills were made aware of aspects as early as June.

 

I really don't know, but I'd just caution heaping too much praise right away. Still, they do deserve credit for moving on this quickly, and that is something I 100% support.

So, you’re calling Beane a liar because of “some reports.?”

10 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

The only misstep for me is cutting Haack over Araiza. If they knew this was hanging over the latter, why cut the former when they did?

Only thing I got is that they trusted their guy and the story they gave him. Poor judgement on their part? Oh, yes & Beane admitted as much.

[machine gun kelly]

55 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Hopefully, but the way the plaintiff's lawyer is acting he seems to want to drag the Bills into it, accusing them of negligence and such. I wonder if they file a separate suit against the Bills.

The Bills attorneys will take care of that as they have much deeper pockets.  He’s just trying to increase the noise and  increase the pot of $.  I don’t think they will get Anything from the Bills.    How could they prove the Bills knew anything?  I seriously doubt the Bills put anything in writing, and they can prove they investigated even if it was a

peripheral investigation.

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 minutes ago, Fabio9000 said:

This probably gets too deep into the nature of corporations and how they behave, but just look at this from a criminal perspective: would you ever conduct a "thorough investigation" of an alleged crime without talking to the alleged victim? I mean, the answer is completely and utterly NO, but in the context of being a corporation that just needs to not look like monsters in the press, I suppose they did the bare minimum that would have avoided additional skewering in the national press. But yeah, if you want to know what happened in a crime you might do well to talk to the people who alleged the crime. 

if you are the cops and are investigating a crime, I agree with you— you talk to the victim And her lawyer.

 

if you are a company that gets a call from a lawyer who is going to file a lawsuit, you probably go on the defensive. I think that’s what happened here. It’s not like that lawyer was calling to be a friend— I suspect he wanted the bills to pay some of the money towards a settlement. 

[marck]

10 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

There two well-established, well-moderated threads for discussing this subject. Yours is what's known as a LAMP: "Look At My Post!"

In your opinion.  I was looking at how this front office and coaching staff handled this situation.

 

Since it solicited conversation on the board isnt that the intent.

 

But, you are welcome to never read another topic I start as it so offends you.

[oldmanfan]

The use of the words “thorough investigation” in the original statement was wrong.  Beane admitted as much.  Other than that I don’t  know what could or should have been done differently.

Edited August 28, 2022 by oldmanfan

[Lfod]

It really wasn't that hard for them to move on from this guy. This guy wasn't face of the franchise huge contract commitment. 

 

Glad everyone's popping that victory champagne but pump the brakes on how big of a deal it really was letting him go. 

 

[LeGOATski]

14 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

That’s why i don’t understand how people are faulting the bills for not calling back the victim’s lawyer as part of the investigation.
 

 There was no purpose for him to contact the team except to somehow get the team involved in paying to settle the case. The Bills lawyers had to be concerned about any additional communications with him. 

From the Bills standpoint, all they're lawyers needed to do was say to the victim's lawyer "give us everything you have." It sounds like the victim's lawyer was happy to provide it all and there would've been no reason to get into a room with them.

[Chewmylegoff]

5 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

From the Bills standpoint, all they're lawyers needed to do was say to the victim's lawyer "give us everything you have." It sounds like the victim's lawyer was happy to provide it all and there would've been no reason to get into a room with them.

Why would they need to do this?  The allegations have been set out in detail in the civil suit. 
 

The team wasn’t conducting a criminal investigation, that is for the police to do. The was conducting due diligence on an employee.  I imagine they were essentially assessing whether his account of the incident amounted to sufficient reason to cut him regardless of what he is alleged to have done. 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, Chewmylegoff said:

Why would they need to do this?  The allegations have been set out in detail in the civil suit. 
 

The team wasn’t conducting a criminal investigation, that is for the police to do. The was conducting due diligence on an employee.  I imagine they were essentially assessing whether his account of the incident amounted to sufficient reason to cut him regardless of what he is alleged to have done. 

Sounds like we're on the same page. All the Bills lawyers needed to do was information gathering.

[DCofNC]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Yeah, it’s real good for Matt.  Lol.  That’s such a bad lie.  

It might be best for MA, if there’s no NFL money to go after, her lawyer may give up a whole lot quicker and it will all be over.  He can then get on with his life or back to the NFL.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, Mango said:

I don’t think it was a lie. I think Beane actually wants to give him space to manage his legal issues. I get the sense Beane is only releasing Matt because of public perception.
 

McD is the only one in the org who has talked about how horrific this could be. McD seemed legitimately shook the other night. I’d imagine having daughters makes this one difficult for him. 

The 1st assertion is incorrect.  Beane clearly stated that there were additional things in the 11-page Civil suit that was far more serious in nature and that led them to part ways so that Matt could focus on getting his name cleared.    I don't believe any public perception forced them to make this cut (At least I hope that was not the case)

 

Sean definitely was far more shook up than Beane.  I would have expected it the other way around as the hiring of the players is the GM's responsibility

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, Fabio9000 said:

What you are pointing out just doesn't matter in the law. It is illegal, period, to have sex with someone under 18 in this instance, regardless of whether you knew the age of the minor. So yes, you're right...presume innocence, always. But it appears that in this case he admitted to statutory, and that's that. What else do we need to know when we have an audio admission of a crime? 

This is from a Callifornia legal blog:  "One of the common defenses is to make an argument you had a belief the victim was not a minor at the time of sexual intercourse. Maybe you believed they were over 18 but were wrong. A good-faith belief the alleged victim was over 18 is a defense to statutory rape."  link   So, the issue is "good faith belief."  If you pick someone outside of high school as classes let out and you claim, "Well, I didn't know she was 18, you would lose.  The example is typically given of a venue that requires entrants to be 18.  If you pick someone up there, it is reasonable to believe they are 18, even if they aren't.  OR, a college party where you expect participants to be college students and you expect college students to be 18....would seem reasonable.  Now, I think the Bills made the right decision and there is a lot troubling about the case.  However, to see that under CA law he is automatically guilty if she was under 18 is factually incorrect.

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

I don’t think it was a lie. I think Beane actually wants to give him space to manage his legal issues. I get the sense Beane is only releasing Matt because of public perception.
 

McD is the only one in the org who has talked about how horrific this could be. McD seemed legitimately shook the other night. I’d imagine having daughters makes this one difficult for him. 

 

He knew a month ago.  Maybe he's shook up because the public heard this story and reacted to them knowing a month ago?

 

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No disrespect, but this is my point.  People keep posting stuff like this that is inaccurate.  Your post here is not accurate, its not your fault, but its not correct.  Your outrage is being guided at incorrect info.  

 

What pat are you claiming is inaccurate?  She went to the cops, then the hospital then the cops had her make a pretext call and they taped it. 

 

27 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

It might be best for MA, if there’s no NFL money to go after, her lawyer may give up a whole lot quicker and it will all be over.  He can then get on with his life or back to the NFL.

 

You think the plaintiff will withdraw the suit now that he's been cut??  If that was true, why did he give the Bills a heads out the suit a month ago, knowing there was a strong possibility the outcome of that was Araiza getting cut?

 

The suit was likely filed to prompt the SDPD, SDC DA to move the criminal case along after a lot of foot dragging.

[CoudyBills]

12 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

There two well-established, well-moderated threads for discussing this subject. Yours is what's known as a LAMP: "Look At My Post!"

Are not all posts "look at my post" posts?  Do you have any don't look at my post,  posts?

[hondo in seattle]

As Beane said, they're human and make mistakes.  I'm sure if some reporter does a deep dive into this, they'll find them.  And if it turns out Araiza is 100% innocent, there will be some second-guessing.

In the army we used to talk about the "fog of war."  Even when the situation is cloudy and you don't have all the information you want, you still have to act. 

 

While I may have sought additional intel, I think Beane and McD are good guys who truly tried to do the "right thing" in a bad situation.  I'm personally thankful this duo is in charge of the Bills.

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

I am pleased that they didn’t make their judgements based on the social media justice model and gave a bit more thought to the unfortunate situation