syhuang Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, ganesh said: I agree with it. The Bills investigation team would have had to have known about it and raised a red flag; may be they raised it and Beane/McDermott ignored it. “We did not know about this, and the league did not know about this,” Beane said. “We’ve reached out to I can tell you double-digit teams at this point, and no one had anything on this. These names were sealed, wherever the investigation was at that point. Yes, if we had this, and we get things like this from guys, you know how important the character and the culture is to Sean (McDermott) and me. And anything that would have been lingering, (Araiza) would have been off our board.” Starting at 8:10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Putin said: OJ did it ??? Notice I even give OJ respect and I call him alleged.. But he did lose a civil suit.. And he wrote a twisted book called if I did it MA is guilty in the eyes of the public already… We will find out what the actual Justice system says And for the record somebody guilty of a heinous crime like that should Face the highest consequences Edited August 28, 2022 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said: This is a terrible precedent for our country. People can and do lie, now anyone can just levy an accusation and it means you lose your job? Some people suggest that this is a private business, which is true, so they can handle it any way they need to. What if this was you and your job and someone were to hurl an accusation you know you didn’t do and you were let go? I’m not saying he’s innocent or not but we don’t have all the facts. I hope the Bills know something specific we don’t know and are moving on that. At this point it’s an accusation, and you can accuse a ham sandwich for anything. People here seem to be ok with lively hoods destroyed just for an accusation that may be proven false in the end. Sad state of affairs and actually the opposite of class. Class would have been letting it play out instead of jumping the gun, but here we are in todays backward world. According to the lawsuit, MA is on tape with the SDPD admitting to having consensual sex with the girl. If that is true, and it better be for a lawyer to put their name to it (under penalty of perjury before the Court), then he is in fact guilty, by statute, of rape because she was under 18 and he was over 21. At that point, he can offer the affirmative defense that he did not know she was underage. In other words: yes, he is presumed guilty by virtue of the relative ages, and he has to prove his innocence by weight of evidence. This was actually an easy decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Warcodered said: He did get convicted for other things later though, also was civilly liable. Yeah, but when you look at Wall... You see 1975, not 1995. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 43 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: The only misstep for me is cutting Haack over Araiza. If they knew this was hanging over the latter, why cut the former when they did? I wondered about this too, but can only surmise that the Bills knew no matter what, Haack was not going to be suiting up for them anymore—that even if Araiza didn’t work out, they would only consider alternative options to Haack? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud17 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 There were a lot of missteps here. I disagree. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said: According to the lawsuit, MA is on tape with the SDPD admitting to having consensual sex with the girl. If that is true, and it better be for a lawyer to put their name to it (under penalty of perjury before the Court), then he is in fact guilty, by statute, of rape because she was under 18 and he was over 21. At that point, he can offer the affirmative defense that he did not know she was underage. In other words: yes, he is presumed guilty by virtue of the relative ages, and he has to prove his innocence by weight of evidence. This was actually an easy decision. Even if what you’re asserting is true. What did they actually say? He admits to having sex with her but does he know she’s underage? Is she someone who would lie about her age? Do you think people need to card everyone they have sex with? It’s not that cut and dry and you know that. Also, you’re never presumed guilty and then have to prove innocence in the court of law. It’s always the accuser that carry’s the weight of proving guilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Yeah, but when you look at Wall... You see 1975, not 1995. True, I'd bet they plan to just try and slide not including him in the new one under the rug. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said: This is a terrible precedent for our country. People can and do lie, now anyone can just levy an accusation and it means you lose your job? Some people suggest that this is a private business, which is true, so they can handle it any way they need to. What if this was you and your job and someone were to hurl an accusation you know you didn’t do and you were let go? I’m not saying he’s innocent or not but we don’t have all the facts. I hope the Bills know something specific we don’t know and are moving on that. At this point it’s an accusation, and you can accuse a ham sandwich for anything. People here seem to be ok with lively hoods destroyed just for an accusation that may be proven false in the end. Sad state of affairs and actually the opposite of class. Class would have been letting it play out instead of jumping the gun, but here we are in todays backward world. My understanding is that employment is at will and works for both the employers and employees. Employees quit an organization if they don't like it or found a better opportunity. The Employer has the same power to do the other way. At the end of the day, Companies are NOT courts. I agree that the Bills now know more critical information (May be Matt's has confessed to them that he did have sex and raped the girl, but that he and his friends thought she was eighteen !!!). May be that is what helped them to close the deal on his release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 I'd give them an A minus. I I beleive them that they did not know anything at the time of the draft. I still beleive MA told them his side of the story and they never knew the horrific nature of the crime. No way did they do a "thorough" investigation. That is my only issue. That statement was nonsense and made the matter worse. As I posted earlier, what are they supposed to do? The victim is not going to talk to them and the police are under no obligation to share any information. They should have said they made the decision with their understanding of the facts at the time. I'm proud they got rid of him as quickly as they could. I hope justice prevails. If MA's involvement is found to not be criminal and he can resume his career I'm still fine cutting him now. Bills drafted him with what they knew, they cut Haack at the time with what they knew, and now they are making the best decision in the moment. If they turn out to be wrong so be it. It's a job not a court. On another note, I still want to know if SDSU impeded the investigation and why it is taking so long for police/DA to make a decision to charge MA mad others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said: Unless, based on the new information they have, they believe MA is destable human being. In that case, the classy thing is to cut him, even though they just built the punting game around his leg. I submit that the punting game is built around much more than the punter’s leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 58 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: The bills kept Tyrel Dodson after he was accused and arrested for domestic violence Really glad Brandon Beane did what was best for Matt Araiza tonight…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiMark Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 56 minutes ago, Warcodered said: He went on to the exempt list and plead to a lesser charge. I am glad we cut him, right move, but would still like to know whether Commissioner's exempt list was even an option? Didn't come up in the NFL discipline articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: As you say, perhaps they decided there were enough free agent punters and those who will appear on waivers that we considered ourselves in a better position cutting Haack whatever the outcome with Araiza. Well Indy apparently didn't think there were better free agent options available, but who knows what their thought process was. Edited August 28, 2022 by chongli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, syhuang said: “We did not know about this, and the league did not know about this,” Beane said. “We’ve reached out to I can tell you double-digit teams at this point, and no one had anything on this. These names were sealed, wherever the investigation was at that point. Yes, if we had this, and we get things like this from guys, you know how important the character and the culture is to Sean (McDermott) and me. And anything that would have been lingering, (Araiza) would have been off our board.” Starting at 8:10 To be clear, when he says this it means that the coaching staff at SDSU did not mention it to them at all. Students on campus across the athletic department knew about it. Coaches had to know about it. So they either totally omitted it in conversations or nobody spoke to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said: Even if what you’re asserting is true. What did they actually say? He admits to having sex with her but does he know she’s underage? Is she someone who would lie about her age? Do you think people need to card everyone they have sex with? It’s not that cut and dry and you know that. Also, you’re never presumed guilty and then have to prove innocence in the court of law. It’s always the accuser that carry’s the weight of proving guilt. This is verbatim from the victim’s complaint (they don’t quote the call): 15. The pretext call with Araiza occurred the following day, October 28, 2021, at approximately 8:15 p.m. During the call, Araiza confirmed having sex with Doe, even telling her that she should get tested for STDs. When the detectives heard this, they instructed Doe to say, "Wait, what std?" Araiza told Doe that he had tested positive for chlamydia, at which time Doe was instructed to say, "So you know what to get tested for Ok, that makes me feel a bit better." To cement the criminal case against Araiza, the detectives asked Doe to ask again, "And did we have actual sex?" The detectives knew that asking such a direct question like this might raise red flags for Araiza, which they tried to manage by telling Doe to ask the question "When you can bring it up again." As expected, however, when Doe asked the awkward question, Araiza immediately changed his tone, saying, "This is Matt Araiza. I don't remember anything that happened that night," at which time he terminated the pretext call by hanging up on Doe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: People need to stop with the predraft stuff, its been overwhelmingly confirmed that it was not known predraft by the Bills, the NFL, or other teams. This is the stuff that drives me crazy...no disrespect Dingus, I really mean no disrespect. But people keep saying things like this that cause false information to persist. I get you may not have been privy yet to these facts, but its a dead issue...no one knew before the draft, and according to Beane neither Matt or his agent even knew until this summer about it or the potential civil case. And that is because the criminal case had not even gotten started yet, so there had been no authorities or anyone contacting Matt either prior to the civil matter getting started. The criminal case began the day after the alleged rape. 9 days later the cops were taking a pretext call to Araiza. The Bills firing was inevitable. The Bills knew a civil suit was coming weeks ago. Their “thorough investigation” would have made them aware of many of the details of the suit. Yet the still did nothing, other than cut last year’s punter. Then, after a massive and predictable PR disaster follows once the public is aware of what the Bills already knew about this whole thing, and with no new info….they cut him. Real class. Edited August 28, 2022 by Mr. WEO 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiMark Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, ganesh said: My understanding is that employment is at will and works for both the employers and employees. Employees quit an organization if they don't like it or found a better opportunity. The Employer has the same power to do the other way. At the end of the day, Companies are NOT courts. I agree that the Bills now know more critical information (May be Matt's has confessed to them that he did have sex and raped the girl, but that he and his friends thought she was eighteen !!!). May be that is what helped them to close the deal on his release. Employment is "at will" in NY, BUT, if you state any reasons why you are firing a person, then you have given the person some ground s on which to sue you--whether solid grounds or not. This is, IMO, what led to the semi-sudden end of their presser; a journalist asking him "So you've been advised by the Bills (attourneys) that there are things you shouldn't adress?" Beane: "Yes." And then he gets up and leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, HiMark said: Employment is "at will" in NY, BUT, if you state any reasons why you are firing a person, then you have given the person some ground s on which to sue you--whether solid grounds or not. This is, IMO, what led to the semi-sudden end of their presser; a journalist asking him "So you've been advised by the Bills (attourneys) that there are things you shouldn't adress?" Beane: "Yes." And then he gets up and leaves. And “at will” is not really the situation when you have a CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: The criminal case began the day after the alleged rape. 9 days later the coke were taking a pretext call to Araiza. The Bills firing was inevitable. The Bills knew a civil suit was coming weeks ago. Their “thorough investigation” would have made them aware of many of the details of the suit. Yet the still did nothing, other than cut last year’s punter. Then, after a massive and predictable PR disaster follows once the public is aware of what the Bills already knew about this whole thing, and with no new info….they cut him. Real class. I keep coming back to the repetition of “this is what is best for Matt”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, HiMark said: I am glad we cut him, right move, but would still like to know whether Commissioner's exempt list was even an option? Didn't come up in the NFL discipline articles. This has been discussed at length already but the NFL couldn't do that because the incident happened before he was drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiMark Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said: And “at will” is not really the situation when you have a CBA. Not a lawyer here, but I actually think a CBA doesn't change the sitch. I think if you were to say you cut a player because of his religion or his sexual orientaion, that there would be grounds for suit. And the NFLPA would be glad to help. 2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: This has been discussed at length already but the NFL couldn't do that because the incident happened before he was drafted. Good for you for discussing it at length. I was suggesting that there was a distinction between league discipline--which the articles I read discussed--and the Comm. exempt list, which did NOT come up in what I had read. If you don't actually know, fine. If you do know, elaborate. If you can post a link to an article, I'll read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 51 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I think it’s silly to say The bills are a class organization because they released MA When they have a alleged murderer on the wall of fame and another player with who got arrested for domestic abuse Now I’m not saying those things make them a classless organization… But They are a football organization They generally do what they think is in the best interest of the team… I didn’t think them keeping Dodson made them classless… Tho some certainly did And I don’t equate them cutting MA to class It was a business decision Again I’m not Saying it isn’t … rape is obviously much much more serious I’m saying it’s hard call the bills a classy or classless organization based on one roster transaction We have an alleged murderer on the wall of fame I think you make a lot of valid points to be honest. It was a business decision at the end of the day. LIke if JA17 gets accused of an accusation like this, there is 0 percent chance the bills cut him haha. We are talking about a rookie punter here that can easily be replaced. I think the bllls did the right thing by cutting him, but i do agree with the overall premise of your points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardFan Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Victory Formation said: I think they intended on moving on from Haack regardless of Araiza. Based on what? The psychic hotline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, HiMark said: Not a lawyer here, but I actually think a CBA doesn't change the sitch. I think if you were to say you cut a player because of his religion or his sexual orientaion, that there would be grounds for suit. And the NFLPA would be glad to help. Good for you for discussing it at length. I was suggesting that there was a distinction between league discipline--which the articles I read discussed--and the Comm. exempt list, which did NOT come up in what I had read. If you don't actually know, fine. If you do know, elaborate. If you can post a link to an article, I'll read it. I think you misunderstand me. I’m pushing back on the “at will” concept pushed by the prior poster and others. I’m noting the CBA adds other complications. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mango said: I keep coming back to the repetition of “this is what is best for Matt”. Yeah, it’s real good for Matt. Lol. That’s such a bad lie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, DieHardFan said: Based on what? The psychic hotline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, HiMark said: Good for you for discussing it at length. I was suggesting that there was a distinction between league discipline--which the articles I read discussed--and the Comm. exempt list, which did NOT come up in what I had read. If you don't actually know, fine. If you do know, elaborate. If you can post a link to an article, I'll read it. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/26/did-the-bills-know-about-the-allegations-against-matt-araiza-when-drafting-him/ The league should want them to cut him, if the Bills (or the league) think that the allegations are credible and more likely than not accurate. If this had happened after Araiza had been drafted, he’d likely be headed for paid leave while the criminal process continues — instead of 13 days from making his official debut on NBC in the first regular-season game of the year. Given that it transpired six months before he entered the NFL, the only way to keep him off the field is to remove him from the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiMark Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Arkady Renko said: I think you misunderstand me. I’m pushing back on the “at will” concept pushed by the prior poster and others. I’m noting the CBA adds other complications. Last 3 lines were a reply to Doc Brown, not you. Not sure why they merged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, HiMark said: Last 3 lines were a reply to Doc Brown, not you. Not sure why they merged If you post back to back too quickly, the two posts are automatically merged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 The right decision. Sad because everyone was excited about him, but we are out to win a Superbowl. We can't afford any distractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Yeah, it’s real good for Matt. Lol. That’s such a bad lie. I don’t think it was a lie. I think Beane actually wants to give him space to manage his legal issues. I get the sense Beane is only releasing Matt because of public perception. McD is the only one in the org who has talked about how horrific this could be. McD seemed legitimately shook the other night. I’d imagine having daughters makes this one difficult for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Just now, The Firebaugh Kid said: The right decision. Sad because everyone was excited about him, but we are out to win a Superbowl. We can't afford any distractions. I get it. But this makes me cringe. IMO, yes we can afford distractions. Life is a distraction. I hate the work in a vacuum theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Yup. They did the right thing, McBeane has always done the right thing and thought they answered all the tough questions today at the presser with dignity and respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiMark Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Draconator said: If you post back to back too quickly, the two posts are automatically merged. Bonus points for correctly using to, too and two in the same sentence. 1 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cDAVIS Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, UKBillFan said: The only misstep for me is cutting Haack over Araiza. If they knew this was hanging over the latter, why cut the former when they did? Honestly man they were likely done with Haack regardless. He was a very bad punter last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 minute ago, HiMark said: Bonus points for correctly using to, too and two in the same sentence. wut? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBbeliever Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: The bills kept Tyrel Dodson after he was accused and arrested for domestic violence remember James Lofton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Georgie said: He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor and was suspended 6 games. The Araiza situation does not appear close to resolution. Also an entirely different situation Dodson was in the NFL therefore the way that he was going to be punished is different the NFL was going to do absolutely nothing in the really Ariza situation so it was totally up to the bills to do the right thing Edited August 28, 2022 by John from Riverside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 Was just able to listen to Beane. Could not agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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