OT: Are you concerned about Mac Jones?

[GunnerBill]

 

50 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

I'd just say that a bunch of that YAC is coming because he's hitting guys in stride and putting them in position to run. He's accurate as hell.

 

Yep. The Pats are playing small ball but Jones is playing it really nicely. The Brady teams were mainly small ball teams in any way. I bet if you did the maths of the number of plays per touchdown drive of the Brady Patriots and compared it to the league average over that time they'd have been above the average. They were always death by a million cuts. It is why the Cam Newton thing never made sense to me because that was never his game. 

[KGun12TD]

I'm very concerned for him. The way we treated Tua and Bressett...yeah.

[dpberr]

Game tape catches up to everyone.  Around week 4, things change.  

 

I'm not saying he isn't going to be good, great.  Just that it's a persistent game of measure-countermeasure, and in weeks 1-2, teams have blind spots to new coaches, new QBs, and new situations.  It's why the Eagles and Saints fell back to Earth in Week 2. 

[TBBills]

19 hours ago, Success said:

Not sure if this is appropriate for this forum, but I was curious what other Bills fans were thinking up to this point.  It's hard for me to put in perspective because I have such a psychosis when it comes to the Pats. I was worried about Jimmy G, and even Stidham.

 

But the Mac hype is officially through the roof. When I'm on general NFL boards or twitter, it seems to be accepted that he is "the best of all the rookie QB's so far," and Pats fans think they got the steal of the draft.

 

Being obsessive about these things, I watched all of the passes from their 1st 2 games. There is no doubt he is accurate, and seems poised in the pocket.  The main thing I saw was more related to coaching - they really set the plays up for him to succeed.  He takes almost no risks at all.  Most passes are short outs or check downs (not disparaging those things, because they can be effective).   I saw nothing that made me think he could do what around 20 or so current QB's could do w/ that same coaching and in that system.

 

Which, of course, reminds me of Brady's early years. Brady transcended that and became a guy who could take over games and lead big comebacks.  I can't help but ask, was that because he was developed properly, and can New England do the same thing w/ Mac?  Or is Brady just Brady, and expecting the same progression for Mac is unlikely at best?

 

Naturally, I'm hoping we don't have a Montana/Young thing going there, and it's still extremely early. I'm just curious if anyone else has any thoughts on it so far.....

 

Worried about a guy who has one of the lowest YPA in the league? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

 

YOu would be accurate also if someone asked you to throw a ball from one side of your living room to the other.

 

 

He has backup QB qualities and that is about it.

Edited September 23, 2021 by TBBills

[May Day 10]

Im watching it closely, but not too concerned.  

 

The hardest thing for young quarterbacks is breaking through and surviving as a capable starter for a few years until they hit the next level.  The Patriots have set the stage well for Jones and he can possibly get through the typical growing pains. 

 

However, it does seem he has a fairly low ceiling.  The quarterbacks of 2021 are different than the quarterbacks of previous generations.  Athleticism is a must.  Pocket-Passers are more of a detriment now with few exceptions.  These guys all need to possess some elite traits to excel and be worth that second contract.    There also seems to be more awesome quarterbacks than ever and they keep coming out of the college ranks.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm

 

Interesting stats:  Mac Jones is dead last in completed air yards and intended air yards both gross and per attempt.  New England is top third in yards after the catch.  

 

Our own passing stats are pretty sad right now.  

 

Mac is protecting the football right now and the Patriots are playing solid D.  I expect the Pats to continue to grind out wins against lower tier teams and surprise some poorly prepared teams with more talent.  However, I think they will get the doors blown off of them by elite offenses.  Our offense better be clicking when we face them or we are in for a long day.

 

Watching the jets game?  They probably called like 8 plays.  Why put anything on film when you can win this game running inzide zone and the same 3 pass plays?

 

The dead last in completed air yards is still... strange.  3 yards?   3 yards!!! 

[Ghost_002!]

So after 2 games and a new stat never mention before (we talking air yards nows...) now we can predict what a QBs career is going to be. Got it. 

 

 

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

Im watching it closely, but not too concerned.  

 

The hardest thing for young quarterbacks is breaking through and surviving as a capable starter for a few years until they hit the next level.  The Patriots have set the stage well for Jones and he can possibly get through the typical growing pains. 

 

However, it does seem he has a fairly low ceiling.  The quarterbacks of 2021 are different than the quarterbacks of previous generations.  Athleticism is a must.  Pocket-Passers are more of a detriment now with few exceptions.  These guys all need to possess some elite traits to excel and be worth that second contract.    There also seems to be more awesome quarterbacks than ever and they keep coming out of the college ranks.

 

 

That helps but you can just know how to move in the pocket and avoid rushes, you don't have to be Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, Allen, etc....

Edited September 23, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[Ghost_002!]

14 hours ago, Success said:

 

"Game manager" isn't a bad thing to have.  But it's also not an elite QB.  

 

With a game manager, you can win a SB - but you need a lot of other things to go right, and the team around the QB has to be a great one.  An elite QB can take an above average team there.

 

 

 

The QBs i listed that won SBs. Were anyone of them Elite QBs? Including Brady in 01. And again saying it clear for anyone not understanding what i am saying. You need a solid QB to compete in this league, you can win with  a solid QB, if your team is built strong enough, he doesn't need to be top 5 dead or alive in order for you to succeed. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[Jauronimo]

13 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

The QBs i listed that won SBs. Were anyone of them Elite QBs? Including Brady in 01. And again saying it clear for anyone not understanding what i am saying. You need a solid QB to compete in this league, you can win with  a solid QB, if your team is built strong enough, he doesn't need to be top 5 dead or alive in order for you to succeed. 

With a solid QB you can be "In the Hunt" in early November for the next 10 years.  Its exciting!

[Meatloaf63]

22 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He looks quite good to me. I don't like the fact that he's on the Patriots, that's for sure. Saying he's rag-armed or being set up for success seems akin to whistling past the graveyard to me. He made a lot of great throws at Bama last year that demonstrated he could play.

Disagree. The Pats roster is very strong top to bottom and as I said, he looks good. The Bills can definitely win the division, but they're not a shoo-in. 

He looks much better than Cassel to me. 

Absolutely, looks accurate can throw downfield, and has an oline that gives him confidence and tight ends for the easy throws. Can you imagine Josh with that Oline?

[frostbitmic]

He beat the Jests and lost to the Tuafish, has he won the offensive rookie of the year trophy yet ?

 

Am I concerned about Mac Jones ? ... Ummm, NO

[DuckyBoys]

Belichick can manufacture wins with Mac but his best case ceiling is Kirk Cousins

[Richard Noggin]

Why, is he not okay? 

 

(better as an earlier reply, no doubt)

[Scott7975]

I haven't watched him but it sounds like a typical rookie QB that is doing ok doing what he is being asked to do.  Not worried at this point.  

[CorkScrewHill]

I think he loaded his britches on this play...

 

 

[CorkScrewHill]

Watched the Pats vs Browns game .. kid seems poised but they definitely have the training wheels on for him.  Of his 19 completions, 3 were 10 yards or more and while they were good throws 2 required spectacular catches. On the flip side he had 9 receptions that were less than 2 yards past the line of scrimmage with most of those behind the line. The Pats got their receiving yards on YAC as they showed a very developed screen game (at least against the Browns). The Bills would be wise to challenge him to throw deep (the anti-Patrick Mahommes approach).

[Dr.Sack]

Captain Checkdown. Shutdown the run, watch for WR screen on early downs, and RB screen on 3rd and long. Get a lead, then pummel that Alabama boy. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Watched the Pats vs Browns game .. kid seems poised but they definitely have the training wheels on for him.  Of his 19 completions, 3 were 10 yards or more and while they were good throws 2 required spectacular catches. On the flip side he had 9 receptions that were less than 2 yards past the line of scrimmage with most of those behind the line. The Pats got their receiving yards on YAC as they showed a very developed screen game (at least against the Browns). The Bills would be wise to challenge him to throw deep (the anti-Patrick Mahommes approach).

 

Yeah, I saw those throws - they were spectacular catches.  The announcers were all over him for what magnificant throws they were.  I thought they were good throws, but better catches and when you live and die by those....you will get picked.

 

Belichick is a great coach and the Pats offense, especially when Brady was a young QB, was all "death by 1000 papercuts" short stuff and runs punctuated by some downfield throws just when teams decided to smother the short stuff. 

 

But every QB who looks poised and capable under Belichick does not, in fact, develop into Tom Brady (Matt Cassel, Jimmy Garappolo).  So we'll see.

 

I'm more concerned about the Bills defense, myself.  IMHO we're a bit bipolar this year.  We can be an amazing, sharp, physical shut-down D.  Or we can be unable to stop a team marching down the field (2nd half of the Tennessee game) and we sometimes seem slow to make adjustments.

[KeLLy1278]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:52 AM, Success said:

Not sure if this is appropriate for this forum, but I was curious what other Bills fans were thinking up to this point.  It's hard for me to put in perspective because I have such a psychosis when it comes to the Pats. I was worried about Jimmy G, and even Stidham.

 

But the Mac hype is officially through the roof. When I'm on general NFL boards or twitter, it seems to be accepted that he is "the best of all the rookie QB's so far," and Pats fans think they got the steal of the draft.

 

Being obsessive about these things, I watched all of the passes from their 1st 2 games. There is no doubt he is accurate, and seems poised in the pocket.  The main thing I saw was more related to coaching - they really set the plays up for him to succeed.  He takes almost no risks at all.  Most passes are short outs or check downs (not disparaging those things, because they can be effective).   I saw nothing that made me think he could do what around 20 or so current QB's could do w/ that same coaching and in that system.

 

Which, of course, reminds me of Brady's early years. Brady transcended that and became a guy who could take over games and lead big comebacks.  I can't help but ask, was that because he was developed properly, and can New England do the same thing w/ Mac?  Or is Brady just Brady, and expecting the same progression for Mac is unlikely at best?

 

Naturally, I'm hoping we don't have a Montana/Young thing going there, and it's still extremely early. I'm just curious if anyone else has any thoughts on it so far.....

 

Excellent post.  The Montana/Young comparison actually made me shudder a bit.  One hall of fame QB followed by another hall of fame QB??  What are the chances?  Favre/Rodgers, Montana/Young… it has happened before but it’s obviously atypical to say the least. 
 

No one can know for sure but it’s fun to speculate.  I have seen my share of highlights and lowlights of Jones.  One thing that I hate (as a Bills fan) is that he is not easily flustered.  He makes a bad read, throws a bad pass, fumbles etc.. and he does not let it affect his next series.  He does have a calmness about him which reminds me of Brady & Montana but I hate to even mention him with those two because it’s ridiculous.  As a rookie QB he gets an A so far.  Can I name 10 QBs in the NFL that I would rather have than Mac Jones?  Probably not.  But again.. the sample size is tiny so far.  I would take him over Jimmy Garropolo though.  Is that saying much?  It is also noteworthy that the Pats have spent a ton of money this past offseason.  The team is underrated and honestly hasn’t always been well coached since Brady left.  It’s been a mixed bag.  
 

Say Jones comes out this week and has a pitiful performance complete with fumbles and picks.  Will we be having this conversation?  To me this is all prisoner of the moment stuff until Jones has three or four seasons under his belt.  Durability is essential as well.. all remains to be seen.

[BruceVilanch]

I'm worried about their defense and stopping Judon.

[TBBills]

Just wait till Mac Jones plays a real defense. He will come right back down to Earth. So funny to watch people get nervous over average.

[Behindenemylines]

Living in Mass all I hear is Pats talk.  They are definitely gushing on Mac but careful not to call him the next Tahwmmy. 
 

accurate yes, composed yes, great running game yes, short passing routes yes.   All the standard hoodie game plan and I would think after a zillion years we know how to counter it.  
 

if we force him to have to play the long ball we will force his mistakes. Get him out of Rythm and see how much he loses his composure and accuracy. We will need this info for the next meeting with them a few weeks later when it may mean even more to us 

[longtimebillsfan]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:57 AM, BillsFan4 said:

He’s played well but as you said he hasn’t really been asked to do a lot. Tons of short screen passes and easy completions. Credit to the Pats for putting him in a good position but I’m not scared of anything he’s done yet.

 

Lets see how he does when the Pats are down big and need to open up the offense more.

 

It'll be years before we know what Mac Jones is anyway so it’s not worth worrying about yet. And I still have faith that Allen stays the better QB between the two. Jones doesn’t have the freak arm + athletic traits Allen does. 

Bill Belichick is a master at putting quarterbacks in the best position to succeed.   This reminds me of how he used Brady early in his career.  

 

I am more worried about Belichick.

[ALF]

Mac has excellent stats for a rookie so far, great draft pick by NE* at 15

[HOUSE]

Throw the ball to me

 

[corta765]

Respectfully I kind of hate these threads. The Bills have a Super Bowl caliber team with a QB who is an MVP candidate on a yearly basis. If they fail to have success in the playoffs or falter earlier I am looking far more at my team then the one that beat them because they should be able to beat any team in the AFC. Mac Jones is good, he has done well as a rookie and fits what NE wants to do. If you lose to the Pats where it ends the season my issue is what the heck our guys our doing not how good NE is.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Who?

 

oh just another Rookie QB myth the Bills D will crush like a beer can at a tailgate 

[Ramza86]

We have Josh Allen, so I will never be concerned about Mac Jones. 

 

The difference between the future of the Pats vs Bills will be roster management and coaching. 

[T master]

O worry about the Pats with who ever Belichek & company have on the field he has owned the Bills except for last year for the past 20+ yrs so he should never be taken lightly & this QB is well he doesn't look at all like a rookie !

 

To do what they did last week to a Browns team that has a lot of really good players both on the defense & Offense should say to the Bills they need to put in extra practice time if they are going to win this one because if they continue on the up swing like they are OMG this will be a game .

[Royale with Cheese]

I'm not concerned about Mac Jones.  We are still better at QB but the Pats with Jones will always be a tough game IMO.  I think we get the better of them more often but we won't dominate them consistently like we should with Miami and NYJ.

 

An eligible Deshaun Watson would concern me in Miami.

[Brennan Huff]

I’m not concerned about Mac Jones at all. I’m actually kinda happy because I have a ton of his rookie cards. But I am nervous about the Pats as a team…

[TBBills]

33 minutes ago, T master said:

O worry about the Pats with who ever Belichek & company have on the field he has owned the Bills except for last year for the past 20+ yrs so he should never be taken lightly & this QB is well he doesn't look at all like a rookie !

 

To do what they did last week to a Browns team that has a lot of really good players both on the defense & Offense should say to the Bills they need to put in extra practice time if they are going to win this one because if they continue on the up swing like they are OMG this will be a game .

Brady owned the Bills, Belichick is 0-2 without Brady right now.

[T master]

Just now, TBBills said:

Brady owned the Bills, Belichick is 0-2 without Brady right now.

 

Very true but look at what he lost last year including Brady as far as his defensive unit goes those players & more are back & i believe last may have been a bit different if this that opted out would have been on the field because even though those players weren't there the Bills squeaked by in 1 of those games .

 

I'm just saying Bill should in no way ever be over looked & if the Bills go into those games like they did in the Jacksonville game the result will be the same & Belichek could be 2 & 2 after Brady .

 

We will all know the out come in a very short time & i for 1 will be on the Bills side routing for them to win GO BILLS !! 

[Ghost_002!]

4 hours ago, TBBills said:

Just wait till Mac Jones plays a real defense. He will come right back down to Earth. So funny to watch people get nervous over average.

 

 

He's already played 3 top 10 NFL defenses this year. Including top pass rushers Jadeveon Clowney and Myles Garrett

Edited November 17, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[TBBills]

3 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

He's already played 3 top 10 NFL defenses this year. Including top pass rushers Jadeveon Clowney and Myles Garrett

Yea and looked very average in each of them. Browns we're not on top of their game last week. 

 

I understand you are scared b.c you have been programmed to be scared of the Patriots. No different then everyone being scared of the Dolphins every year. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by TBBills

[RichRiderBills]

Mac is good. I predict he will trend downward this year, but long term he will be an excellent QB.

 

Schedule gets rough, weather will get cold.

 

Mac Jones has very little cold weather experience, and has never played anything like a 17 game schedule.  He's going to have some melt down moments even though the offense does not put a ton on him.

 

Only a dozen rookie QBs in NFL history have put their team in the playoffs. I think NE will pull this off, but it won't be pretty.

[TBBills]

Good thing is Mac Jones is pulling a Fitzpatrick where he is making gullible people think he is good. When that is probably the best he will be ever.

[Ghost_002!]

8 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Yea and looked very average in each of them. Browns we're not on top of their game last week. 

 

I understand you are scared b.c you have been programmed to be scared of the Patriots. No different then everyone being scared of the Dolphins every year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is not being asked to do too much, that approach has pretty much been recognized. And Brown's "not being on top of their game.." doesn't discredit his experience against them....he been facing heavy pass rushes. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Good thing is Mac Jones is pulling a Fitzpatrick where he is making gullible people think he is good. When that is probably the best he will be ever.

 

 

 

 

yea he sure has Tyrann Mathieu fooled (sarcasm)

Edited November 17, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[RichRiderBills]

4 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Good thing is Mac Jones is pulling a Fitzpatrick where he is making gullible people think he is good. When that is probably the best he will be ever.

 

I tip my hat that you may be right. We all saw Trent Edwards. Many thought he was a borderline MVP candidate 5 games into his 2nd year. 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Jones does not concern me. He is performing well as an efficient game manager, but that is it.

 

Their coaching, run game, and defense however, do concern me. Judon is performing better than even expected, and they got some players back from COVID opt-out last year. Going to be a tough day for both of our Lines.

 

Thankfully, the Dolphins somehow pulled one off on Opening Day and handed them an additional Division loss. I'm hoping that we can at least split with the Pats, and keep a leg up on division record.

 

Definitely cheering for Tennessee next week as well.