"If Allen Plays Like Crap This Week, Accept that He's Simply Not Good

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

So, aren't you taking more of a 2-game sample, while others are basing their predictions on an entire season of play (2020)?

 

Scientifically speaking, there is a much great probability that Allen is who he was last year, than who we've seen by mid-September this year.

 

I'd love to see the scientific data. 

[Southern_Bills]

I say if you make the decision that Josh Allen is not as good as advertised because he opens the season with 3 average games, you will forever be wishing you had better. Probably would have complained in the Kelly Era as well.

 

But don't let me get in the way of your misery, carry on.

[billsherd]

So have we settled that Allen can't play well with crowds in stadium?

[Southern_Bills]

Just now, billsherd said:

So have we settled that Allen can't play well with crowds in stadium?

 

We are close, one more week and it will be a proven fact. 😂

[Motorin']

Moderator Split feature: 

 

[cgg716]

4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

For future reference, the words it’s really this simple shouldn’t be followed by a backwards, convoluted response. Who just throws out an MVP caliber season after two games? While not letting 3 years ago go? This board can be dreadful 
 

 

4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

It's really this simple, until Allen proves last year wasn't a fluke he's the same guy we saw in 2018/2019 right now....extremely erratic with a few glipses of greatness sprinkled in. You don't pay $250M for that, not even close and we have the right to demand better as fans since there were many of us that understood last year could have been an outlier and not really who Allen is. And you can't make the comparison to midseason last year since he came out guns blazing in the first four games.

 

He's been terrible from the get go and now we also now Pittsburgh isn't nearly as good as we thought either given Carr's performance yesterday. Honestly Allen is lucky he didn't have 3 or 4 INT yesterday but obviously it's not under the microscope so to speak because our defense gave one of the best performances of the McD/Frazier era.

 

Allen must get his head right quickly starting this week.

 

[Buffalo Boy]

10 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

I say if you make the decision that Josh Allen is not as good as advertised because he opens the season with 3 average games, you will forever be wishing you had better. Probably would have complained in the Kelly Era as well.

 

But don't let me get in the way of your misery, carry on.

   Yep.

    Some youngins on here didn’t see the Kelly era and don’t remember this same worthless devaluation of him back then. Kelly had some serious rough stretches during his SB seasons.
   You can’t win every game. Sometimes QBs go through rough patches: Marino did. Manning Did. 
    Mahomes had a game where he threw three picks against the Fins at the end of last year?!?! Last years Dolphins!!! I guess it’s no surprise when he stunk it up in the Super Bowl. Mahomes is a bum??? The Chiefs overpaid????

   WT ever living F is wrong with some of you😳
   

[transplantbillsfan]

Don't feed the trolls!!!

[TheBrownBear]

Really goes to show how there are trolls lurking under every rock, just biding their time and waiting for the first hint of failure to strike.  I shudder to think what these folks "lives" are like.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, billsherd said:

So have we settled that Allen can't play well with crowds in stadium?

 

That was last week. Try to keep up.  Now we think he can't play well, period, 'cuz he 's just not that good.  We demand better because we deserve it!  <--sar chasm

 

[Protocal69]

Well I would have started my own thread about this but that would be stupid.

 

I'm telling you right now. I rewatched the game and im going to tell you guys right now. Something clicked for Josh starting in the 2nd half and clicked mid way through the 4th for him and he is back. It was something about his body movement that was different. Less glittery and more confident. Hard to explain but real none the less.

 

Yes our guy Josh Allen is back. Now of course you guys are going to say I'm crazy or you will believe it when you see it BUT  will lay my down my prediction right now.

 

260 passing 67% 2 Tds and 0 ints. It would be more put i do feel they are going to continue to try to be a more balanced offense. Book It. GO BILLS!

Edited September 21, 2021 by Protocal69

[machine gun kelly]

Every QB has lulls.  Remember when Brady threw 4 Int’s against us when Fitzy won the game several years back. It’s been two freakin games and this is nothing more than people who have been waiting to trash Allen or any other part of the Bills to support their agenda.  I’m not a kook aid fan, and yes Allen hasn’t played in two games what he avg. last year, but he’s also not horrible.  When an offense plays that well for 19 games or at least 16 of 19 games (Allen actually played well in AZ as I see that as a fluke loss). Opposing DC’s have an entire off season to figure out how to counter their opponent.  Tomlin was scorched by the Pats for years who Daboll takes a lot of his scheme from past experiences at the Pats.  So Tomlin’s guys did exactly the opposite of what they normally do.  They didn’t blitz a lot, they covered up the middle of the field dropping 7-8 guys and took away from Josh the 15-25 yard passing routes.  
 

It was Daboll who didn’t adjust and McD, didn’t take a role to counter Daboll and direct him to run more, or play to our strengths.  Sure Allen had a bad game, but it’s a team that wins or loses.  We won 35- freakin Nothing.  After three years of a progression from Allen going from 53%, to 59%, to 69%, and an improved cast each year, he’s not perfect, but he is certainly amongst the National media and players considered one of the top 5-7 QB’s in the NFL.  Do you want Tannehill, Darnold, Winston, Z. Wilson, Dalton, Fitzy, Tyrod, Carr, and I can keep going?  Of course not.

 

For me it’s onto WFT.  They have a tough front four and I’m guessing this will be a tighter game than many expect.  I still believe we will win, and the following week.  We’ll be 3-1 going into the Chiefs game, then we will be tested by a SB team.

[BuffaloBills1998]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Yep.

    Some youngins on here didn’t see the Kelly era and don’t remember this same worthless devaluation of him back then. Kelly had some serious rough stretches during his SB seasons.
   You can’t win every game. Sometimes QBs go through rough patches: Marino did. Manning Did. 
    Mahomes had a game where he threw three picks against the Fins at the end of last year?!?! Last years Dolphins!!! I guess it’s no surprise when he stunk it up in the Super Bowl. Mahomes is a bum??? The Chiefs overpaid????

   WT ever living F is wrong with some of you😳
   

There were times Kelly was so bad it was ridiculous at times. If I’m correct wasn’t it Thurman who called out Kelly publicly about his struggles? 

[Protocal69]

45 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Every QB has lulls.  Remember when Brady threw 4 Int’s against us when Fitzy won the game several years back. It’s been two freakin games and this is nothing more than people who have been waiting to trash Allen or any other part of the Bills to support their agenda.  I’m not a kook aid fan, and yes Allen hasn’t played in two games what he avg. last year, but he’s also not horrible.  When an offense plays that well for 19 games or at least 16 of 19 games (Allen actually played well in AZ as I see that as a fluke loss). Opposing DC’s have an entire off season to figure out how to counter their opponent.  Tomlin was scorched by the Pats for years who Daboll takes a lot of his scheme from past experiences at the Pats.  So Tomlin’s guys did exactly the opposite of what they normally do.  They didn’t blitz a lot, they covered up the middle of the field dropping 7-8 guys and took away from Josh the 15-25 yard passing routes.  
 

It was Daboll who didn’t adjust and McD, didn’t take a role to counter Daboll and direct him to run more, or play to our strengths.  Sure Allen had a bad game, but it’s a team that wins or loses.  We won 35- freakin Nothing.  After three years of a progression from Allen going from 53%, to 59%, to 69%, and an improved cast each year, he’s not perfect, but he is certainly amongst the National media and players considered one of the top 5-7 QB’s in the NFL.  Do you want Tannehill, Darnold, Winston, Z. Wilson, Dalton, Fitzy, Tyrod, Carr, and I can keep going?  Of course not.

 

For me it’s onto WFT.  They have a tough front four and I’m guessing this will be a tighter game than many expect.  I still believe we will win, and the following week.  We’ll be 3-1 going into the Chiefs game, then we will be tested by a SB team.

You are absolutely right. The one thing I will say is that players do respect Allen play. For example in the postagame Xavier Howard was asked what happened on that Diggs TD  and he basically said Josh Allen being Josh Allen scrambling and found him.

 

The fact that he said Josh Allen being Josh Allen shows a level of respect for his playmaking ability 

[LABILLBACKER]

In the words of Aaron Rodgers, everyone just needs to "relax". Josh Allen will NOT  be a bust. He just received a huge contract that I'm sure makes him press. All 5 members of his OL are struggling in different ways. His OC still is calling some real head scratchers. Dabol will have to turn over the playbook and switch it up.  It's completely comical for some to say empty stadiums had anything to do with his success. He's more than demonstrated his talent and athleticism. Yes he personally has to clean up the accuracy and field vision issues. But consider this season as a post covid reset. Stop running to the nearest panic button. It wouldn't surprise me if we shut out Washington. 

[Chandler#81]

12 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Agree, if Allen plays like crap again this week there are no more excuses. It will be time to accept that he's simply not good and behind closed doors in Orchard Park there will be serious buyers remorse knowing that he had a fluke year during the weird fanless covid year.

 

Washington has a good dline and but has struggled mightily overall and is lucky to be 1-1 right now. And even if they were a top defense Allen played extremely well against many top 10 defenses last year and has to show that again given his contract. Really hope he can turn it around and come out firing.

Quoting the legendary @DC Tom, you’re a moron.

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That was last week. Try to keep up.  Now we think he can't play well, period, 'cuz he 's just not that good.  We demand better because we deserve it!  <--sar chasm

 

 

Are you not at all concerned that certain posters are concerned and demand that everyone be concerned about the concerns they are concerned everyone be concerned about? 

 

Here's what I picture the concerned looking like as they stew in their concerns. 

 

[gordong]

Yawn…. My I recommend a book…. Football for dummy’s 

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, Pokebball said:

and if he plays well?

A year and a half, really

They were a wild card team

 

If he plays like the last two weeks he sucks

If he plays well then its just WFT and they suck.

Thats how Bills fans roll.

Already seen posts about how last season Allen wasn't good because the last 6 games were bad teams.

[Freddie's Dead]

[John from Riverside]

I’m surprise the OP got three plus pages out of this bs

Edited September 21, 2021 by John from Riverside

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I’m surprise the OP got three pages out of this bs

 

Four, because of you 😜

[H2o]

My opinion on Allen? He just signed a huge contract and it's in the back of his mind. He is such a competitor that right now he's trying to live up to expectations that come along with that contract. So in my humble opinion he looks to be feeling the pressure of living up to the hype. The OL is not doing him any favors, nor is Dabol right now with his play calling. Josh is a guy who seems to excel most when he gets into a rhythm early then it carries through the rest of the game. Dabol needs to call the game like that early so Josh can get those quick hitters and intermediate routes going. Dabol also needs to use more motion, like he did last year. It doesn't seem like they are right now to me. The OL also needs to keep the man from getting hit every 3 drop backs. I think Josh will be fine and this team will only get better with each passing week. To all of the people looking for reasons to jump off of the wagon? ✌️✌️ 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

My opinion on Allen? He just signed a huge contract and it's in the back of his mind. He is such a competitor that right now he's trying to live up to expectations that come along with that contract. So in my humble opinion he looks to be feeling the pressure of living up to the hype. The OL is not doing him any favors, nor is Dabol right now with his play calling. Josh is a guy who seems to excel most when he gets into a rhythm early then it carries through the rest of the game. Dabol needs to call the game like that early so Josh can get those quick hitters and intermediate routes going. Dabol also needs to use more motion, like he did last year. It doesn't seem like they are right now to me. The OL also needs to keep the man from getting hit every 3 drop backs. I think Josh will be fine and this team will only get better with each passing week. To all of the people looking for reasons to jump off of the wagon? ✌️✌️ 

I really don't get the Allen is feeling the pressure of signing the big contract angle. I just don't buy it. I think there are many factors in play. The Oline, play calling, lack of consistent run attack/threat. Also, Allen has lost his confidence, his mechanics, and vision. Hopefully, we will see a turn around soon.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

🙄

[BigBuff423]

13 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

These next 2 games you just gotta put in the bank.  

 

Sucks we could have seen Fitz and then Tyrod back to back at home. 

 

 

Haden and Bush did not play and Watt played 1 quarter.   

 

That was not the Steelers defense yesterday.  

 

 

We played 2 elite pass defenses with ball hawks around the field.  Would I have liked Allen to light them up sure.  But the oline was a mess week 1 and Howard and Jones played really well yesterday.  Allen's threat opened up the running game and that's what has to happen as he sees more and more 7 men 2 deep coverage.   

 

13 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Not arguing your point that Josh needs to return to form.  But yes, the Raiders appear to be that good and two, Watt was injured in the first half and didn't return.  He's the leader of the Steeler's defense.  His absence mattered.

 

Moreover, Alualu fractured his ankle during the game as well. The Steelers defense was not the same on Sunday and as others have said, the O-line made some big improvements from Week 1 to Week 2. I'm sure that also had to do with not facing Cam Heyward, Melvin Ingram and TJ Watt, but also I don't think Dawkins was in game shape and as I've mentioned in other places on this board, I think the lack of Pre-Season in game play for the O-line and Josh have had their effect. 

 

Before we mention last year as means of pointing to the lack of need for a Pre-Season for the line and Allen, keep in mind Defenses were epically bad in the first 4-6 games last season in large part due to the lack of Pre-Season. So, the Offense had a jump and it showed. As the season went on, the defensive numbers and performances across the league started to settle back to "normal". 

 

As for Josh Allen, I don't anyone would argue that we'd all like to see him return to 2020 form, but Ken Dorsey being the Passing Game Coordinator, Offensive Line struggles in the first game, and the aforementioned lack of Pre-Season practice, might mean it takes a couple games to get back to that level. All of that said, barring an terrible failure, I can't see why anyone would think he isn't still and will be the franchise QB Buffalo has dreamed about for twenty years. Before we go back in time, let's recall Josh's very raw mechanics coming out of high school, was still new to football in general, and progressed incrementally from 2018-2019-2020 - it wasn't a terrible two years and a leap the third year. It was progressive, showing growth - not an aberration of success. 

[teef]

this.  this is what i live for.

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Cash me out back, howboutat?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Might I respectfully suggest that any negative reactions to a post actually be assigned a -1, and are deducted from the contributor's rep points?  More than 5 on one thread result in a two week ban.  Multiples of 5 equal additional increments.

*
If necessary, we call in the 'Arbitor of Idiots' DC Tom to rule on the posting, and the contributor.

*
😁

[Eastport bills]

This sad excuse for a Bills fan deserves to be mired in mediocrity and bleed internally with the pedestrian cast of talentless QBs we have survived for the last 25 years. Clueless posters like this are wasting the time and energy of devoted fans. How about if you can't make a rational statement you retire to private life. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Hot takes from people who don't watch every QB under a microscope like we do with Josh. Spoiler: even Mahomes plays like s### sometimes. They aren't robots.

Edited September 21, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m surprise the OP got three plus pages out of this bs

 

To be fair, the OP didn't start this thread.  I split it out from the WFT game thread because it was starting to overwhelm that discussion.  It's one thing to have a little sidebar discussion here and there, but a major hot take that is drawing a lot of response probably deserves its own thread.

 

I'm not surprised.  When people say controversial stuff it often draws more attention and reactions than a measured reasonable response.

 

[Alphadawg7]

21 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Agree, if Allen plays like crap again this week there are no more excuses. It will be time to accept that he's simply not good and behind closed doors in Orchard Park there will be serious buyers remorse knowing that he had a fluke year during the weird fanless covid year.

 

Washington has a good dline and but has struggled mightily overall and is lucky to be 1-1 right now. And even if they were a top defense Allen played extremely well against many top 10 defenses last year and has to show that again given his contract. Really hope he can turn it around and come out firing.

Geezus this take is so bad we are all actually dumber now for having read it.  
 

STANDING OVATION for the mod @Hapless Bills Fan for banishing this unbelievable hot garbage of foolish posts to its own thread.  Best move I’ve ever seen a mod do.  👏

Edited September 21, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I really don't get the Allen is feeling the pressure of signing the big contract angle. I just don't buy it. I think there are many factors in play. The Oline, play calling, lack of consistent run attack/threat. Also, Allen has lost his confidence, his mechanics, and vision. Hopefully, we will see a turn around soon.

 

It's a little hard to fathom why, if Allen has totally lost his mechanics, vision, and confidence, he completed some of the throws he has in fact hit the last 2 games and especially the Miami game.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Might I respectfully suggest that any negative reactions to a post actually be assigned a -1, and are deducted from the contributor's rep points?  More than 5 on one thread result in a two week ban.  Multiples of 5 equal additional increments.

*
If necessary, we call in the 'Arbitor of Idiots' DC Tom to rule on the posting, and the contributor.

*
😁

Reaction is just a joke, btw.

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Hot takes from people who don't watch every QB under a microscope like we do with Josh. Spoiler: even Mahomes plays like s### sometimes. They aren't robots.

You oughta know.

[teef]

and now we're hearing the, "you can't talk bad about josh without people getting angry" nonsense.  i think posters are more than happy to discuss what's going on in a reasonable.  it's this mouth breather nonsense that get's bashed.  don't lump the good conversation into ones like this.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Geezus this take is so bad we are all actually dumber now for having read it.  
 

STANDING OVATION for the mod @Hapless Bills Fan for banishing this unbelievable hot garbage of foolish posts to its own thread.  Best move I’ve ever seen a mod do.  👏

 

Thank you.  I wasn't sure what the reaction would be, but I've taken flack before for things that turned out to be mistakes so I figured I'd survive if it was negative, and it seemed like a better alternative to promote discussion than locking the game thread and starting a new one or just pruning all the crap.  Took a bit of work though.

 

This is an extreme take, but IMHO it's not that far off from about half a dozen I've seen scattered here and there - Allen has reverted to 2019 or 2018, he has completely lost his mechanics, confidence, and vision, he is under no pressure so there is no reason for this, etc etc etc.

 

These IMHO are people who are stat surfing and not really watching the game carefully.

 

1 minute ago, teef said:

and now we're hearing the, "you can't talk bad about josh without people getting angry" nonsense.  i think posters are more than happy to discuss what's going on in a reasonable.  it's this mouth breather nonsense that get's bashed.  don't lump the good conversation into ones like this.  

 

Yes, exactly.  People aren't getting angry or annoyed about reasoned criticism.  In fact, most of those people also say that improvement is needed and that Josh hasn't played well.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Yes, exactly.  People aren't getting angry or annoyed about reasoned criticism.  In fact, most of those people also say that improvement is needed and that Josh hasn't played well.

i think everyone is one the same page for improvements needed.  it's the level of reaction/overreaction that seems to be the divide.

[RobbRiddick]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

To be fair, the OP didn't start this thread.  I split it out from the WFT game thread because it was starting to overwhelm that discussion.  It's one thing to have a little sidebar discussion here and there, but a major hot take that is drawing a lot of response probably deserves its own thread.

 

I'm not surprised.  When people say controversial stuff it often draws more attention and reactions than a measured reasonable response.

 

Ah, so you're saying that Nick Wright guy has started posting here

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, RobbRiddick said:

Ah, so you're saying that Nick Wright guy has started posting here

 

I'm saying like Pogo, that "we have met Nick Wright and he is Us" (at times)

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Hot takes from people who don't watch every QB under a microscope like we do with Josh. Spoiler: even Mahomes plays like s### sometimes. They aren't robots.

This is a great point.  When Rogers overthrew an open WR last night on a deep ball how many people even noticed?  Those are low probability plays under the best of circumstances.

 

Lamar Jackson looses TWO fumbles in the 4th quarter & OT directly leading to the Ravens loosing the game and no one seems to panic about his ball security. But Allen gets strip sacked by the best Defensive end in football loosing the ball at midfield and people claim that unless he solves his fumbling problem no Super Bowl for the Bills.

 

Mahomes throws a terrible 4th quarter INT playing hero ball with a 35 - 24 lead sparking the Ravens to the win. Everyone yawns.

 

Last night it starts raining and Goff drops a snap and then has the ball fall out of his hand eliminating any chance the Lions might make a game of it.

 

I could go with dozens of other examples and this is only after TWO WEEKS!  QB's make mistakes - ALL THE TIME. Like great pitchers and hitters QB's can go into a slump - ALL THE TIME.

 

This obsessive worry over Allen seems weird to me.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by CincyBillsFan