"If Allen Plays Like Crap This Week, Accept that He's Simply Not Good

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

 

Josh has said himself he is not playing well. Can we stop with the "he is fine" its all on the OL? The OL has played ok not great. Allen is playing well below is expectations, more than the OL. You talk about watching the game. Go watch every throw. He is missing more than he should. I expect within a few weeks he will have this figured out and then you can watch the film for those games compare to the last two and it will be night and day with the same OL play. Its ok to admit he is off. It happens. 

I never said he was perfect, I said the OL has been atrocious.  Most of us acknowledge there are some things Josh can do better, while others are saying it’s all Josh.  
 

Watch the games.  The OL has been the worst unit on this team for 2 straight weeks, and it’s not even debatable.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Well, they watch every snap and grade every player, in every single game. 

 

So, its one measure. 

 

For instance, Herbert only has 2 TDs and 3 Interceptions on the year. On the surface Allen has better production. But you've watched Herbert laser footballs this season out of the pocket. Hence the grade is higher. 

 

 

This is the same group of analytical masters that ranked Allen as the 22nd best QB entering 2020.  Behind Fitz, Baker, Wentz, Goff, CAM NEWTON, etc.  Guess their observations were a little off on that one?  They might have a little bit of bias in scoring Allen low. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-all-32-starters-entering-the-2020-nfl-season

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

 

Josh has said himself he is not playing well. Can we stop with the "he is fine" its all on the OL? The OL has played ok not great. Allen is playing well below is expectations, more than the OL. You talk about watching the game. Go watch every throw. He is missing more than he should. I expect within a few weeks he will have this figured out and then you can watch the film for those games compare to the last two and it will be night and day with the same OL play. Its ok to admit he is off. It happens. 

It is a team game. and the Offense needs to improve as whole.
Josh was waaay off against Steelers and less waaay off against Dolphins

 Is that better 

cuz those are both true imho

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

And no that wasn’t a “sure TD”, though it would have been a contest

 

I suppose Sanders could have dropped the ball. Or Allen could have overthrown or underthrown. But that was as sure of a TD as it gets in the NFL. There is not a safety in the league who would be able to get to Sanders before the ball did.

 

.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Einstein

[Mango]

PFF has Allen as 28th heading into week 3. I don’t have the subscription so I can’t see the notes. 
 

Seems low. But not wildly low if you just

look at those two games aside from 2020. 
 

I think he’ll be fine. He’s pressing too hard at the moment. But I also think he deserves honest criticism for how bad he’s been. It’s part of the territory for a franchise QB. 

[Golden]

The post seems like an over reaction.  Even if JA continues to not get into a flow against the WFT, 3 games does not make a season or a career for that matter.    
      Perhaps let’s look @ where he is game 16 of this season. 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

14 minutes ago, Golden said:

The post seems like an over reaction.  Even if JA continues to not get into a flow against the WFT, 3 games does not make a season or a career for that matter.    
      Perhaps let’s look @ where he is game 16 of this season. 

That's the kind of take you would typically have on a rookie or second year starter, not a franchise QB worth 258 million.  If I'm not producing results at work I get held accountable and told to turn it around.....rapidly.  My boss doesn't say "hey, don't sweat it, lets see where you are at week 52."

 

Its not that I suck at my job or I've regressed, it's because I get paid to produce results and not come up with excuses about the marketing dept. not doing there job or communication from accounting is poor.  

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I’m not worried about Josh’s performance the first two games as much as I haven’t liked his body language when things haven’t gone right. 
 

When Josh was progressing, I liked seeing when he’d make plays late after he didn’t have a great overall game to that point. 
 

It felt like he thought the game was over during the 4th quarter against the Steelers that’s what’s probably bugged me the most so far. 
 

Someone in another thread had a great line the other day about how for probably the first time, Josh is one of the hunted instead of one of the hunters. Maybe that has something to do with what we saw from him…but I hope it’s just something he just has to get used to because I don’t want to get used to seeing that look from him. 

[OZBILLS]

I was worried, but then I remember that all the bad plays are Daboll's fault and then I felt better!

[Golden]

15 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

That's the kind of take you would typically have on a rookie or second year starter, not a franchise QB worth 258 million.  If I'm not producing results at work I get held accountable and told to turn it around.....rapidly.  My boss doesn't say "hey, don't sweat it, lets see where you are at week 52."

 

Its not that I suck at my job or I've regressed, it's because I get paid to produce results and not come up with excuses about the marketing dept. not doing there job or communication from accounting is poor.  

The title of the post says “ If JA plays like crap this week, accept that he’s simply not good”

     My response is in context to the title of the post.  Yours is not. 

[nedboy7]

27 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

That's the kind of take you would typically have on a rookie or second year starter, not a franchise QB worth 258 million.  If I'm not producing results at work I get held accountable and told to turn it around.....rapidly.  My boss doesn't say "hey, don't sweat it, lets see where you are at week 52."

 

Its not that I suck at my job or I've regressed, it's because I get paid to produce results and not come up with excuses about the marketing dept. not doing there job or communication from accounting is poor.  

dude won the game 35-0.  It would be weird for the boss to be over the top upset and start questioning his own investment cause the stat line wasn’t flashy.  

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

dude won the game 35-0.  It would be weird for the boss to be over the top upset and start questioning his own investment cause the stat line wasn’t flashy.  

Not really, not if I'm compensated at a level that is indicative of producing results and I'm the highest paid person in the company.

[Golden]

6 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

dude won the game 35-0.  It would be weird for the boss to be over the top upset and start questioning his own investment cause the stat line wasn’t flashy.  

Yes,

    It’s a mind set of pro bowl players vs. super bowl players.  

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

18 minutes ago, Golden said:

The title of the post says “ If JA plays like crap this week, accept that he’s simply not good”

     My response is in context to the title of the post.  Yours is not. 

ummm, yes it is, but I'm not going to take the time and dumb it down for you so you can better understand, we'll just agree to disagree

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

3 minutes ago, Golden said:

Yes,

    It’s a mind set of pro bowl players vs. super bowl players.  

So you would rather have, say, Trent Dilfer. A guy that can, if all is right in the universe, bring you one SB trophey. Over Tom Brady.....A guy who delivers consistent results year over year and brings you many SB trophies.....Makes sense.

[BuffaloBills1998]

This has literally got to be the dumbest post I’ve ever seen. Accept that he’s not good?? He’s the last QB to get us to the AFC championship game. Something no other QB that’s played for this franchise post Kelly has been ever able to do. Im assuming your one of the idiots who wanted Rosen. 

[Putin]

If Allen plays like crap this week I will beat my dog 

[Golden]

14 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

So you would rather have, say, Trent Dilfer. A guy that can, if all is right in the universe, bring you one SB trophey. Over Tom Brady.....A guy who delivers consistent results year over year and brings you many SB trophies.....Makes sense.

I must confess I baited you into this response.  Your logic is why I don’t work for some one. I own my own company.  Many of my “high performance” team members were not always high performers.  Josh has proven that he is not like a Pat Mahomes or a Tom Brady & I’m not saying that critically.  They ascended quicker than he did & have maintained it.  Although a true comparison is still a bit early. 
     As far as your sarcasm goes, use it on someone else.  I have no need to respond to yours at all. 
    

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

 

7 minutes ago, Golden said:

I must confess I baited you into this response.  Your logic is why I don’t work for some one. I own my own company.  Many of my “high performance” team members were not always high performers.  Josh has proven that he is not like a Pat Mahomes or a Tom Brady & I’m not saying that critically.  They ascended quicker than he did & have maintained it.  Although a true comparison is still a bit early. 
     As far as your sarcasm goes, use it on someone else.  I have no need to respond to yours at all. 
    

I'll use it on who ever I like, free country and all that....your choice not to respond.  Your high performers though.....Did you pay them HUGE salaries before they actually performed at a high level consistently?  No need to answer....its rhetorical.....you did not.

Edited September 23, 2021 by BIGFOOTspaceman

[Golden]

5 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

 

I'll use it on who ever I like, free country and all that....your choice not to respond.  Your high performers though.....Did you pay them HUGE salaries before they actually performed at a high level consistently?  No need to answer....its rhetorical.....you did not.

I appreciate your freedom, & I just to set the record straight, I did pay them more prior to their now increased performance level.  I paid them gladly significantly more than the market dictated.  Much more to say if you showed more common respect. I would enjoy the convo. 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

10 minutes ago, Golden said:

I appreciate your freedom, & I just to set the record straight, I did pay them more prior to their now increased performance level.  I paid them gladly significantly more than the market dictated.  Much more to say if you showed more common respect. I would enjoy the convo. 

Hi pot....I'm kettle.

[Golden]

18 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Hi pot....I'm kettle.

Sincerely,

    My apologies for any disrespect to you.  I’m certain that I have room to grow in how I respond.  All the best to you 👍

[TwistofFate]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So instead of watching the game to form your own opinion you took your analysis from what someone else said on the radio, who are also not known for their astute analysis.  Got it.  I watched the full game twice, and your post above is not in tune with the reality of what I saw during the game.  
 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

 

Going to leave this here.  

 

He has time, he's just not connecting. 

 

I hope this gets corrected soon! 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

1 hour ago, Golden said:

Sincerely,

    My apologies for any disrespect to you.  I’m certain that I have room to grow in how I respond.  All the best to you 👍

 

☮️

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

 

Going to leave this here.  

 

He has time, he's just not connecting. 

 

I hope this gets corrected soon! 

I would say that proves the exact opposite of what youre saying....hes not far ahead of everyone else in average time to throw and hes probably the least blitzed qb in the league.  Theres two deep safeties and 7 guys in coverage all game long.  Not to mention hes mobile so hes taking time to avoid rushers and trying to find a receiver...just because the TT shows whatever doesnt mean he had a clean pocket that long

Edited September 23, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[ngbills]

Josh Allen heard about this thread and wanted to pass along a few messages:

 

“The job of the quarterback is to put your team in a position to score points and do whatever it takes to win games. That’s what we did last week. I don’t really care what anybody thinks, I care about what the guys in this locker room think. There’s no secret that I didn’t play great last week, I didn’t play great the week before but it’s something I’m working on. I’ve just got to push through it and find ways to be better.”

 

“I demand so much of myself. I want to execute at such a high level and when things aren’t going right I get so frustrated with myself. I’ve got to find a way to keep going, stay light for the guys and be the best leader for this team that I can be.”

 

“It’s tough. I just want it so bad. It’s hard to tone down that aspect. When it’s something I expect out of myself and something I can do – and do regularly in practice and have shown it – then a couple of times in the game where I miss and maybe I let it affect me too much. The best quarterbacks are the ones who can take the previous play and move on to the next. Guys make mistakes, guys miss throws, it’s how we bounce back from it that makes us who we are.”

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Greg Cosell on Allen 9/23 at 1:00 PM from The Herd:

 

 

"Inconsistent ball placement"

 

"Missed too many throws that were there, some were routing layups"

 

"Throwing too hard"

 

"Throw on deep throw too flat"

 

"No trajectory to those throws, no margin for error"

 

"Last year this was not an issue"

 

"Tape shows struggling with accuracy and missing too many throws"

 

 

 

He's only been at NFL Films for 40 years.

 

 

[Success]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Greg Cosell on Allen 9/23 at 1:00 PM from The Herd:

 

 

"Inconsistent ball placement"

 

"Missed too many throws that were there, some were routing layups"

 

"Throwing too hard"

 

"Throw on deep throw too flat"

 

"No trajectory to those throws, no margin for error"

 

"Last year this was not an issue"

 

"Tape shows struggling with accuracy and missing too many throws"

 

 

 

He's only been at NFL Films for 40 years.

 

 

 

I mean, that's stuff we all saw the 1st 2 weeks.

I think the main debate on this thread is sample size.  

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

I mean, that's stuff we all saw the 1st 2 weeks.

I think the main debate on this thread is sample size.  

 

No disrespect to Mr Cosell but we did see all those things at numerous times throughout last season in a lot of the same situations we've been in these first two weeks.  If he's getting consistently pressured with 4 he gets those happy feet and never really sets when he throws.  So yea I think you're on to something with sample size

[Solomon Grundy]

This is the week Josh learns to get the ball out quick to RBs/TEs

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

No disrespect to Mr Cosell but we did see all those things at numerous times throughout last season in a lot of the same situations we've been in these first two weeks.  If he's getting consistently pressured with 4 he gets those happy feet and never really sets when he throws.  So yea I think you're on to something with sample size

So nothing to see here, he’ll get to upper echelon QB again?

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

No disrespect to Mr Cosell but we did see all those things at numerous times throughout last season in a lot of the same situations we've been in these first two weeks.  If he's getting consistently pressured with 4 he gets those happy feet and never really sets when he throws.  So yea I think you're on to something with sample size

He completed less than 60% of his passes in 2 games the entire season. He has done that twice already this year.

QB rating under 80 in 5 games, already twice this year.

His Y/A numbers this year are worse than all but 1 game last year.

His 9 & 7 bad throws would be two of his worst of last seasons.

 

Josh has admitted he is not playing up to his standards. Fans are allowed to admit this too. 

[Pokebball]

Just now, ngbills said:

He completed less than 60% of his passes in 2 games the entire season. He has done that twice already this year.

QB rating under 80 in 5 games, already twice this year.

His Y/A numbers this year are worse than all but 1 game last year.

His 9 & 7 bad throws would be two of his worst of last seasons.

 

Josh has admitted he is not playing up to his standards. Fans are allowed to admit this too. 

Josh will never, ever, say he is playing up to his standards.

[TwistofFate]

9 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I would say that proves the exact opposite of what youre saying....hes not far ahead of everyone else in average time to throw and hes probably the least blitzed qb in the league.  Theres two deep safeties and 7 guys in coverage all game long.  Not to mention hes mobile so hes taking time to avoid rushers and trying to find a receiver...just because the TT shows whatever doesnt mean he had a clean pocket that long

He's had plenty of clean pockets. He's had time to throw.  He's simply not hitting targets. 

 

Every metric in the world is backing up the fact he hasn't looked good. 

 

I hope it changes, especially because we are now invested in him for big money. 

 

But let's not pretend he's doing fine, he's not, and it's OK to admit it. 

 

I really don't want to go back on a quarterback carousel so I pray he gets his ***** together and he doesn't revert to what he was the first two years. 

 

It was wonderful dominating teams last year and going to an AFC championship and I don't want to be in the basement anymore.

[TwistofFate]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

No disrespect to Mr Cosell but we did see all those things at numerous times throughout last season in a lot of the same situations we've been in these first two weeks.  If he's getting consistently pressured with 4 he gets those happy feet and never really sets when he throws.  So yea I think you're on to something with sample size

Getting pressured with four is a joke.  You should be the most calm being pressured by only four guys. 

 

He has the receivers, he has the mobility, he has time. He has an all star WR corps around him.  He simply needs to hit his target. 

 

Shitting on Cosell is foolish, he knows what he's looking at and has watched more film than half the people on this board combined. His assessment is correct and honest.

Edited September 23, 2021 by TwistofFate

[Niagara Dude]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:13 PM, FilthyBeast said:

 

Agree, if Allen plays like crap again this week there are no more excuses. It will be time to accept that he's simply not good and behind closed doors in Orchard Park there will be serious buyers remorse knowing that he had a fluke year during the weird fanless covid year.

 

Washington has a good dline and but has struggled mightily overall and is lucky to be 1-1 right now. And even if they were a top defense Allen played extremely well against many top 10 defenses last year and has to show that again given his contract. Really hope he can turn it around and come out firing.

Maybe the Bills should added another lignite weapon,  teams are just doubling up Diggs and forcing to find others.  The others are just not that good and Bills should have replaced Brown with someone better than an old goat like Sanders.

[Pokebball]

4 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Maybe the Bills should added another lignite weapon,  teams are just doubling up Diggs and forcing to find others.  The others are just not that good and Bills should have replaced Brown with someone better than an old goat like Sanders.

Josh has hit Sanders a few times, right in the numbers.  I'm not too impressed so far.

[Putin]

8 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Maybe the Bills should added another lignite weapon,  teams are just doubling up Diggs and forcing to find others.  The others are just not that good and Bills should have replaced Brown with someone better than an old goat like Sanders.

That old goat was WIDE open and Allen missed him on what should have been a TD,

 

 

[Luka]

This is a shameful thread. A guy has a rough start to the season and it's time to run him out of town already. Yikes.

 

Until the game plan turns around, Allen won't. You don't go 5 wide against one of the best defenses in the league time and time again. You don't run gadget plays on 4th and short. Until the run game gets on track and we can consistently threaten teams with Josh's legs and Devin Singletary, we are going to struggle. Teams were so afraid of Josh's legs last year from film study, they just didn't expect him to pass the way he did. He was unbelievable off of play action and most of of our success was from 3 wide sets. We got away from all of that against the Steelers. Then against Miami Josh just never got into a rythmn. He made some great throws and some poor ones in each game. Did you guys really think we were going to go undefeated this year? This is what it looks like after you go to the AFC Championship. No one is over looking you, they are looking to beat you.

My honest opinion of what's going on is that Josh didn't play all preseason and I think that was a mistake. These guys should've prepped like starters every week and at least went in for a drive or two each game. Things are just of sync and we'll be back on track by mid season.

[Scott7975]

20 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

 

Going to leave this here.  

 

He has time, he's just not connecting. 

 

I hope this gets corrected soon! 

 

Thats because he is creating time.  Average time to throw is not calculate by time to pressure.  Its only calculated from the time of the snap until the time the QB releases the ball.  If they run around behind the line of scrimmage, buying time like Allen does, then the QB will typically have a higher avg time to throw. The stat is garbage because it indicates nothing really but how long the QB holds the ball for.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Scott7975