Carson Wentz to the Colts

[papazoid]

carson wentz was sacked 50 times last year

 

philip rivers was sacked 19 times

 

wentz is going to play much better

[BillsShredder83]

11 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

ZOOM!

(Right over your head. It was a play on his last name.)

See lol you are smarter than me. Headed to stub my toe on some furniture in retribution 😆 I have shamed my fami-ree!

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You might, but Frank Reich obviously differs

 

Reich was OC with Eagles when they made the call to draft Wentz.  I think it's fair to say Wentz is a pretty open book to Reich.

 

 

 

I just don't think Wentz is that guy anymore. Reich is taking an absolute put in my opinion on being able to revive him. It isn't impossible but I do think it is unlikely. 

13 minutes ago, papazoid said:

carson wentz was sacked 50 times last year

 

philip rivers was sacked 19 times

 

wentz is going to play much better

 

Some of those sacks were on Carson Wentz though. Yes his line was bad but he struggles reading coverage and holds the damn ball so long. 

 

Also worth saying Indy's left tackle has just retired.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Barley 300 and missed many more opportunities that a more athletic QB could have made both in the air and on the ground.

 

With the formula Indy figured out to shut buffalo down on 3rd down...and the Dominant OLINE of Colts...had 

 

Rivers not been sub 60% and created a little with his legs.

 

Indy was on their way to a east 40-45 point road victory that day.

 

If "ifs and buts" were "candy and nuts" we'd all have a Merry Christmas

 

People under-rate Rivers.  The guy is a master at reading the defense,finding the gaps in the zone, and firing the ball out quickly, which is how he was picking us apart.

 

Rivers was 58.7% in our playoff game vs 68% on the season for good reason - because our D was making it hard on him to do better.

 

I'm not saying this is where you're going, though the post you're responding to seems that way, but anyone who assumes that Wentz is as good or better than Rivers at the mental aspect of QB play at this point is flying against all the evidence.   Carson Wentz isn't fit to hold Rivers jock in that regard at this point.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just don't think Wentz is that guy anymore. Reich is taking an absolute put in my opinion on being able to revive him. It isn't impossible but I do think it is unlikely. 

If Wentz is willing to be receptive to better coaching and tone done his extemporaneous game and make quicker decisions there is no reason why he shouldn't return closer to his more successful past. The Colts have a good OL and a good running game. That was exhibited when we played them in the playoffs. He needs to use those assets to his benefit. I'm not comparing Josh to Wentz but what differentiated Josh last year was the quantum leap he made in understanding the game and more quickly responding to the play. Reich is the right coach to get Wentz back on track. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Mr. K said:

My snap reaction... the Eagles just saved themselves from a horrible contract with a underproducing QB. If Reich is able to get something decent out of Wentz I still don't see him playing at the value of the capital. Wentz is having the career arc of Derek Anderson imo.

Wentz is basically Ryan Tannehill leaving Miami and going to Tennessee. I expect Wentz to be very good in Indy. 

[Mr. WEO]

Good news for the rest of the AFC contenders.

 

 

[TBBills Fan]

2 hours ago, Process said:

I agree. If they add a top WR and wentz ends up being good, they are ready to win a superbowl now. 

 

Colts-Bills-chiefs- browns are all damn good teams. Next year should be fun. 

 

 

that may well be the 4 Division champs next year

[C.Biscuit97]

35 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In what way is Wentz better than Rivers? He has better arm strength and more athleticism obviously. Other than that Rivers was a supremely better QB in 2020. Rivers played very well against us making quick decisions and mostly putting the ball where it needed to go. Wentz hasn't been that type of QB in a couple years.

Rivers played well against but that was like his best game of the year. The colts are a top 10 talented offense. Eagles were bottom 10.  The Colts gave up 19 sacks with Rivers who has the mobility of a tree stump. The Eagles allowed 65 sacks with 2 of the most mobile qbs in the league. 
 

so do I think barring health that Wentz could do better than Rivers 24 td to 11 ints? Hell yeah. I’d wager on it and I don’t really like Wentz that much. I just love the situation for any qb there and Rivers was on his last legs.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, RiotAct said:

good trade for the Colts.  They didn’t give up much.

They took on a massive contract for a guy that was benched last year. I'd say its a good risk/reward deal as they have a solid team. 

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Rivers played well against but that was like his best game of the year. The colts are a top 10 talented offense. Eagles were bottom 10.  The Colts gave up 19 sacks with Rivers who has the mobility of a tree stump. The Eagles allowed 65 sacks with 2 of the most mobile qbs in the league. 
 

so do I think barring health that Wentz could do better than Rivers 24 td to 11 ints? Hell yeah. I’d wager on it and I don’t really like Wentz that much. I just love the situation for any qb there and Rivers was on his last legs.

You are correct the OL was a mess in Philadelphia.  

[Seoulofstone]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Wentz is willing to be receptive to better coaching and tone done his extemporaneous game and make quicker decisions there is no reason why he shouldn't return closer to his more successful past. The Colts have a good OL and a good running game. That was exhibited when we played them in the playoffs. He needs to use those assets to his benefit. I'm not comparing Josh to Wentz but what differentiated Josh last year was the quantum leap he made in understanding the game and more quickly responding to the play. Reich is the right coach to get Wentz back on track. 

 

  I completely agree with you. Listening to Ben Solak of the draft dudes (he covers the eagles), he said that Wentz thinks he can do more than he actually can and caused a lot of his own problems. A lot of that was due to his attitude.

   That said as you mentioned the guy that can fix him is Reich.

   One thing is for sure, if he does fail with his new supporting cast this upcoming year, and it's not impossible, he could be about done. I hope for him he can turn it round. I will always feel bad for him. He must feel like his big moment was taken from him in Philadelphia. 

[mannc]

54 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

The contract really isn't bad if you believe he's the guy that he was up until this past season, which the Colts obviously do. I'm sure the Colts are looking at it and saying they're getting a good QB at below-market rate.

 

I agree a 1st and 3rd for Wentz is a pretty good return. At the same time, factoring in the cap penalties, Philly essentially paid $34 million for a 1st and 3rd round pick. Is that a reasonable price? I would say, financially, no. But I get that if they hit on what will likely be a late 1st round pick, it might be worth it in the long run.

But Philly was in the hook for the $34M anyway, and Wentz was never playing another down for them.  This is a great deal for them.

[TBBills]

So now the Colts are a little worse than last year.

[Green Lightning]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Wentz is basically Ryan Tannehill leaving Miami and going to Tennessee. I expect Wentz to be very good in Indy. 

He will, but not as good as Rivers. I think it's a net loss for Indy.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

carson wentz was sacked 50 times last year

 

philip rivers was sacked 19 times

 

wentz is going to play much better

Exactly and the Colts run 55% of the time. All they'll ask Carson to do is be a younger more athletic game manager than Rivers was. He will thrive.

[Doc Brown]

If Wentz can go back to his 2017 form under Reich for the next decade this could be looked at one of the most lopsided trades in NFL history.  Not even a guaranteed first round pick for a guy you had to give up multiple firsts, a 2nd, and a 3rd for to trade up and draft.  

 

I don't know if I've ever seen an organization win a Super Bowl and then become this dysfunctional as fast as they did.  They seemed to do everything possible to set Wentz up to fail.  

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well they still get a 2nd next year if he doesn't play 75% of the snaps.  

 

And unless he gets hurt, he will play 75% of the snaps without question.  They have no one else to really challenge him for playing time, and Colts have a stingy defense, good OL, and good run game.  They will not have to lean on Wentz, so as long as he stays on the field healthy he is going to see 75% of the snaps next year.  And if that happens, the 2nd becomes a first.  

 

So odds are, Eagles got a 3rd this year and 1st next year for an injury prone QB, with a large hard to trade contract, who hasn't looked good since 2017.  

 

The big questions on Wentz are two fold:  1.  Can he stay healthy?  2.  Who is the real Wentz?  The guy who was an MVP candidate through 13 weeks of the season in 2017, or the guy who has played at a similar level as Mitch Trubisky since?  Eagles OL was a mess, and so were their WR's...so how much did that cause him to regress?

 

Honestly, Wentz likely would have struggled again in Chicago, but the Colts are literally a best case scenario for him.  Good D to take pressure off the offense, and most importantly a very good OL with some solid weapons to throw to and in the run game.  Big bonus is he has Frank Reich too.  If he can't rebound his career there this year, he will be looking for a backup job in 2022...but if he can, Colts wont miss a beat with Rivers retiring and could even be better if Wentz finds some of that 2017 form.

 

My personal opinion is I think Wentz is not as good as that short stint suggested in 2017, but also not as bad as hes looked the last 2 years and will be comparable to what Rivers was for them this year.  Feels like a good trade for both sides right now.  

I think if the colts start out 4-8, Wentz goes to the bench. Regardless of who else they have.

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, RiotAct said:

good trade for the Colts.  They didn’t give up much.

 

Actually - I think for that contract they gave up a bunch.

 

3rd this year and a high likely hood off a #1 next year.

 

More than I expected and way more than I would of paid for Wentz. 
 

Moves the pressure to Chicago to act on the available QBs.

[Nester]

People talking about “massive” contract are clueless.

 

its $25mm next year. Same as Rivers.

 

Teddy bridgewater got $21 mill for crying out loud

 

$25 mill for a QB is low these days. Josh is going to want and get $40m

 

 

the contract was huge 3 years ago, now it’s normal.

[Big Gun]

Colts got a steal and Jalen Hurts stinks, Eagles gonna be bad for a while.

[RiotAct]

10 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Actually - I think for that contract they gave up a bunch.

 

3rd this year and a high likely hood off a #1 next year.

 

More than I expected and way more than I would of paid for Wentz. 
 

Moves the pressure to Chicago to act on the available QBs.

I always forget about the contract part.  Haha

[Doc Brown]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Actually - I think for that contract they gave up a bunch.

 

3rd this year and a high likely hood off a #1 next year.

 

More than I expected and way more than I would of paid for Wentz. 
 

Moves the pressure to Chicago to act on the available QBs.

They paid Rivers the same amount last year and his salary is a bargain for the next four years if Wentz can get back to his MVP form.  Colts have the salary cap space to take this contract on as I believe they'll pry be around 45 million under the cap now.  Plus, they can cut bait with him after two years scotch free if he doesn't work out.  This has the potential to backfire but it's more likely to work out than not imo. 

 

I'm just laughing at the Eagles having to eat 33.8 million in dead cap.  The last three years was a complete organizational failure by the Eagles when it came to Wentz.

[Malazan]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

I think this move tells me the Jets may be set with Sam Darnold because, even though I know more QB's are available, I thought Darnold had Colts written all over him. In fact, I'd rather have Darnold than Wentz.

 

Wentz was bad. Darnold was worse. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agree with most of this but I definitely think he’s an upgrade over Rivers. They are a SB contender. And Pittman is going to be a problem.  That’s a good team there. 

 

I agree they are a contender for sure.  I really liked Pittman coming out of college too and think he is going to keep getting better next year as well.

 

The main reason I am sold on whether or not Wentz can be an upgrade to Rivers though is he was one of the worst rated passers in the NFL last year while throwing from a clean pocket.  So the excuse of a bad OL doesn't excuse those inaccuracies.  Maybe its a confidence issue, maybe its he played above his ability for part of a season in 2017.  We don't really know.  I mean we have seen guys like Nick Foles have small great stretches of football in their careers too and just not be as good as those small pockets made it seem.  

 

So I am not ready to say Wentz rebounds to a point he is automatically an upgrade to Rivers just yet.  But I do fully acknowledge the potential is there.  

 

I do think at the very least the Colts are no worse off than they were with Rivers last year because he wasn't relied on to carry the team.  They have a good overall roster there for sure.  

 

And if Wentz can be an upgrade to Rivers, then Colts are firmly in the "real threat" category of the Bills, Titans, Browns, and Ravens next year to the Chiefs in the AFC.  If he's isnt much of an upgrade, or worse, then I think they are still a playoff team, but not in the same contender status of the others I mentioned.  

[HappyDays]

 

[Milanos Milano]

I know I got downvoted for it already, but if I’m a Colts fan, I’d rather have Wentz than Rivers. 

[The Jokeman]

31 minutes ago, Big Gun said:

Colts got a steal and Jalen Hurts stinks, Eagles gonna be bad for a while.

The Eagles need help at WR and the O-line to fix their offense, the defense that might be another story. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Rivers played well against but that was like his best game of the year. The colts are a top 10 talented offense. Eagles were bottom 10.  The Colts gave up 19 sacks with Rivers who has the mobility of a tree stump. The Eagles allowed 65 sacks with 2 of the most mobile qbs in the league. 
 

so do I think barring health that Wentz could do better than Rivers 24 td to 11 ints? Hell yeah. I’d wager on it and I don’t really like Wentz that much. I just love the situation for any qb there and Rivers was on his last legs.

 

 

Even with a clean pocket, Wentz was bad.  Lots of sacks were problems reading the Defense or finding his receivers.

 

He's had only 2 full seasons.  He's had 1 pretty good season--and couldn't finish, relying on a backup QB to win his franchise a SB.  The next season he was 5-6 with only 21 TDs.....before being injured again.  Last year he couldn't finish the season because he stunk the place up.  He's the opposite of a leader---including in the locker room.

 

The Colts may not even be the best team in their division now.

[Milanos Milano]

24 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Wentz was bad. Darnold was worse. 

Wentz was playing on a bad team. Having Wentz on a team like the Colts will help him tremendously. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just don't think Wentz is that guy anymore. Reich is taking an absolute put in my opinion on being able to revive him. It isn't impossible but I do think it is unlikely. 

 

Some of those sacks were on Carson Wentz though. Yes his line was bad but he struggles reading coverage and holds the damn ball so long. 

 

Also worth saying Indy's left tackle has just retired.

I believe they are moving Quentin Nelson to LT. Thoughts?

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

40 minutes ago, Nester said:

People talking about “massive” contract are clueless.

 

its $25mm next year. Same as Rivers.

 

Teddy bridgewater got $21 mill for crying out loud

 

$25 mill for a QB is low these days. Josh is going to want and get $40m

 

 

the contract was huge 3 years ago, now it’s normal.

If Josh does demand that top 5 contract and doesn’t deliver he’s getting the full reaming. It will be on the same level as I’ve been with Tre White our top paid CB who can’t cover Hill or Kelce or Nuke. We pay you top CB money to cover these guys, not Sammy Watkins.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I believe they are moving Quentin Nelson to LT. Thoughts?

 

Really? Hmm. Interesting. Not the way I'd have gone but then Andrew Whitworth was a guard who became a future HOF left tackle.

[Milanos Milano]

Wentz under Frank will make him a top 15 QB in this league. Mark it down. 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Even with a clean pocket, Wentz was bad.  Lots of sacks were problems reading the Defense or finding his receivers.

 

He's had only 2 full seasons.  He's had 1 pretty good season--and couldn't finish, relying on a backup QB to win his franchise a SB.  The next season he was 5-6 with only 21 TDs.....before being injured again.  Last year he couldn't finish the season because he stunk the place up.  He's the opposite of a leader---including in the locker room.

 

The Colts may not even be the best team in their division now.

Counterpoint: Rivers was also bad in 2019.

[Milanos Milano]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint: Rivers was also bad in 2019.

Rivers is completely physically limited and has a very small ceiling. I’d rather take a chance on Wentz with better line play and a better offense and defensive team. Wentz just needs to regain confidence, and that will improve with better team play. Colts got a steal of a deal. He reminds me of a better JP Losman. JP got his confidence rocked and was never the same, I often wonder how his career would have turned out with better team play. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by IronMaidenBills

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Really? Hmm. Interesting. Not the way I'd have gone but then Andrew Whitworth was a guard who became a future HOF left tackle.

 

You generally need long arms if you are going to stay in the pockets of a top edge rusher.    Whitworth had them,  Nelson not so much.   I suspect the Colts will draft a tackle with the standard 35"+ arms.   Nelson to LT reminds me of Bruce Matthews to LT.........best game of Bruce Smith's career.

[1st&ten]

3 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Darnold or Wentz is among one of the worst debates on here. Both have been ruined by their organizations and both won’t ever fulfill whatever predraft expectations they had.  Besides, how many failed QBs have actually turned it around with an another organization after being traded? I can’t think of any. 
 

 

 

Jim Plunkett---Raiders

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint: Rivers was also bad in 2019.

 

I'm a well known Rivers skeptic here.  But he has a long career as a very productive QB.  Wentz has one partial season. 

 

13 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Rivers is completely physically limited and has a very small ceiling. I’d rather take a chance on Wentz with better line play and a better offense and defensive team. Wentz just needs to regain confidence, and that will improve with better team play. Colts got a steal of a deal. He reminds me of a better JP Losman. JP got his confidence rocked and was never the same, I often wonder how his career would have turned out with better team play. 

 

 

lol, I bet Colts fans would love reading that.

 

Physically limited?  How many games has Rivers missed in his career?  How about zero in 15 seasons since he became starter.  Wentz struggles with the physical part of the game and clearly, the mental part of the game.

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You generally need long arms if you are going to stay in the pockets of a top edge rusher.    Whitworth had them,  Nelson not so much.   I suspect the Colts will draft a tackle with the standard 35"+ arms.   Nelson to LT reminds me of Bruce Matthews to LT.........best game of Bruce Smith's career.

 

Good point. Also Whitworth, while a good guard, was not the best guard in the league. When a guy is so dominant at his spot I'd say risky to move him somewhere else, you might end up not solving LT and severely weakening LG. 

[Milanos Milano]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm a well known Rivers skeptic here.  But he has a long career as a very productive QB.  Wentz has one partial season. 

 

 

 

lol, I bet Colts fans would love reading that.

 

Physically limited?  How many games has Rivers missed in his career?  How about zero in 15 seasons since he became starter.  Wentz struggles with the physical part of the game and clearly, the mental part of the game.

 

Physical as in arm talent wise. The playbook is smaller with a QB like Rivers. Wentz can throw any pass you want. 
 

I think JP got hosed. He got hurt on a dirty play and the team kind of railroaded him. He was electric with Evans, would have been cool to see what he could have done with another WR and a better defense. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by IronMaidenBills