dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Yes, but you are talking about a QB that has had back injuries and has underperformed for years and does not really fit the McVay style of offense. Stafford is still an elite talent and at this point a poor man’s Josh Allen - which is still good. Stafford has always been able to make plays when the play breaks down because of his ability to move around and his elite arm. That’s what McVay wants - a guy who can rescue a play when it breaks down. That’s not Goff. 1 minute ago, SirAndrew said: I preface this by saying I’m not a big Stafford fan. I’m not convinced that he’s top level elite, or capable of winning titles. I do believe that Stafford is capable of bringing a well coached team with a decent roster to the playoffs. That’s exactly why the Rams traded for him. The Lions game plan is a little more confusing to me. Most people view Goff as a stop gap QB in Detroit who will struggle without McVay in his ear. This means the Lions don’t have a QB. Those two first rounders aren’t to be at the top of the first round, and they still need to find a QB. Stafford might have never taken the Lions far, but I’d prefer to build around him for the last few years of his career, and hope for the best. Get what you can out of Stafford, then go for the tank when he retires to draft a QB. A couple of draft picks in the 20-30 range don’t do much for a team without a QB. The Lions still need to chase their QB of the future. I view Stafford as a serviceable second tier QB, who could have taken the Lions to the playoffs. I don’t think they have that with Goff. If the Rams don’t win a title, I think both teams are losers in this trade. Objectively, Goff is a better-than-average QB. The narrative around him seems a little nuts to me. 26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I totally agree and further more - I think Stafford is a terrible fit for that offense. He is not a dink/dunk style passer or a roll out guy. He is a deep drop and pocket thrower and that means big changes to how they move forward. I think Stafford has the better arm, but he has not shown himself to be the better QB or to elevate those around him - even when surrounded by some of the top WRs in the game. Big risk for LA and potentially resets their window to an even smaller window before they fall apart. Yeah, but that’s exactly what McVay wants - someone who is not Goff or Cousins. Say what you will about Stafford, but he has elite talent and like Allen and Mahomes can make plays when things aren’t working. That missing element has killed the Rams for the last couple of seasons. Don’t think McVay doesn’t watch guys like Mahomes, Allen, and (not least) Justin Herbert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Stafford is still an elite talent and at this point a poor man’s Josh Allen - which is still good. Stafford has always been able to make plays when the play breaks down because of his ability to move around and his elite arm. That’s what McVay wants - a guy who can rescue a play when it breaks down. That’s not Goff. Objectively, Goff is a better-than-average QB. The narrative around him seems a little nuts to me. The narrative is the most interesting part of this trade imo. We will all get to find out what’s true when we see Goff in Detroit. Goff just doesn’t pass the eye test for me. McVay did a lot of interesting things with that offense such as the helmet radio communication stuff with Goff. You’re not necessarily wrong, I’m just curious to see what happens with this. QB’s put up big numbers in 2020, numbers that once made a guy elite mean less in the modern NFL. Very average QB’s can put up big numbers these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, SirAndrew said: The narrative is the most interesting part of this trade imo. We will all get to find out what’s true when we see Goff in Detroit. Goff just doesn’t pass the eye test for me. McVay did a lot of interesting things with that offense such as the helmet radio communication stuff with Goff. You’re not necessarily wrong, I’m just curious to see what happens with this. QB’s put up big numbers in 2020, numbers that once made a guy elite mean less in the modern NFL. Very average QB’s can put up big numbers these days. Agreed. The thing is that Goff put up huge numbers in 2017 and 2018, and he’s only 26. I don’t buy the McVay genius stuff. Plenty of great offensive minds look bad when the qb is subpar. In fact, I’d say all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Best place for Watson is the Saints imo. Super bowl. How would they fit Watson under the cap and retain those super bowl players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 It’s more than a narrative about Goff. He has negative trade value. If he didn’t, the Rams would’ve traded him to one of the other 10 teams actively looking for a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitch left Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Well there's an out in Goff's contract after 2022. So 2021 may be the tank year -- dump who doesn't fit for 2023 and accumulate draft capital. Rams are 35Mil over - it'll be interesting to see how teams like that restructure, etc to get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, Pitch left said: Well there's an out in Goff's contract after 2022. So 2021 may be the tank year -- dump who doesn't fit for 2023 and accumulate draft capital. Rams are 35Mil over - it'll be interesting to see how teams like that restructure, etc to get there Maybe they will bite Goff’s kneecaps off and go for the injury settlement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pitch left said: Well there's an out in Goff's contract after 2022. So 2021 may be the tank year -- dump who doesn't fit for 2023 and accumulate draft capital. Rams are 35Mil over - it'll be interesting to see how teams like that restructure, etc to get there The tell that Detroit is tanking is that they had to give Campbell a 6 year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 11 hours ago, QCity said: Keep him in the NFC, nice. Let's hope Watson follows him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 36 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Stafford is still an elite talent and at this point a poor man’s Josh Allen - which is still good. Stafford has always been able to make plays when the play breaks down because of his ability to move around and his elite arm. That’s what McVay wants - a guy who can rescue a play when it breaks down. That’s not Goff. Objectively, Goff is a better-than-average QB. The narrative around him seems a little nuts to me. Yeah, but that’s exactly what McVay wants - someone who is not Goff or Cousins. Say what you will about Stafford, but he has elite talent and like Allen and Mahomes can make plays when things aren’t working. That missing element has killed the Rams for the last couple of seasons. Don’t think McVay doesn’t watch guys like Mahomes, Allen, and (not least) Justin Herbert. Goff needs a whole lot around him to go well to look capable. He was basically babied by McVay his whole career once he got there. I think people are going to have a fairly stark realization that McVay propped him up about as much as a coach could because I doubt he looks anything like a top half of the NFL starter in Detroit. 1 hour ago, JMF2006 said: I think the Lions are in full rebuild mode. The cap hit is just a necessary business expense. They obviously felt they had one valuable asset(see Hershel Walker Dallas to Minny) and decided to cash their chips in. My way of looking at it is that they could not win with Stafford so lets get the most we can now. Bold move by the new GM. Bold move but he thinks he can win with Goff? Making more money? I don't get what they are doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 It’s interesting that Detroit supposedly turned down a better offer from Washington. I’m surprised this Goff-Stafford swap actually happened, but value wise, I think this was in line with what was expected. Don’t think this changes the price for Watson at all. Decent return for Detroit, but Goff’s contract is pretty bad and those 1sts are years down the road and likely in the late 20s to 30s...not super valuable chips. If a team like New England had offered #15, they probably should have taken that instead but it sounds like they just wanted to get Stafford to his top choice, which was LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: The narrative is the most interesting part of this trade imo. We will all get to find out what’s true when we see Goff in Detroit. Goff just doesn’t pass the eye test for me. McVay did a lot of interesting things with that offense such as the helmet radio communication stuff with Goff. You’re not necessarily wrong, I’m just curious to see what happens with this. QB’s put up big numbers in 2020, numbers that once made a guy elite mean less in the modern NFL. Very average QB’s can put up big numbers these days. McVay's scheme made Goff look good...Stafford should excel in it. Goff is a middling QB. I think some people are going to be shocked at how poor he looks in Detroit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Are Cupp/Woods really elite? My perceptions is that Goff was making receivers out of these guys, especially seeing Woods up close in Buffalo. Woods was a ceiling 2 in Buffalo and that’s being generous. With Goff, Woods has been elevated to a 1a. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, DCOrange said: It’s interesting that Detroit supposedly turned down a better offer from Washington. I’m surprised this Goff-Stafford swap actually happened, but value wise, I think this was in line with what was expected. Don’t think this changes the price for Watson at all. Decent return for Detroit, but Goff’s contract is pretty bad and those 1sts are years down the road and likely in the late 20s to 30s...not super valuable chips. If a team like New England had offered #15, they probably should have taken that instead but it sounds like they just wanted to get Stafford to his top choice, which was LA. I'm sure some GM's view Goff as a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: Are Cupp/Woods really elite? My perceptions is that Goff was making receivers out of these guys, especially seeing Woods up close in Buffalo. Woods was a ceiling 2 in Buffalo and that’s being generous. With Goff, Woods has been elevated to a 1a. Kupp is one of the best #1 receivers and Woods is one of the best #2 WRs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I'm sure some GM's view Goff as a franchise QB. Those GMs should probably not be GMs. Goff is precisely the type of QB teams should constantly be trying to replace IMO. A talented passer but he just doesn’t have it between the ears at all. If a play doesn’t play out exactly as expected, he’s screwed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Virgil said: If Goff wasn’t included, I would say that’s fair. With Goff included, it seems a bit much They had to unload Goff to get Stafford. Couldn’t afford both. Honestly, I think they gave as much as the did to entice Lions to take Goff. Rams are basically pushing all their chips in and going all out to win now. Lions have a few years, and will probably try to unload Goff though I don’t see anyone taking him. Could be a win win depending on how Lions draft. Edited January 31, 2021 by Bobby Hooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I think they will play it like the Saints did the past 3 years and push that debt down the road. Their rationale would be having a "#1 defense" right now justifies going for it. You may be right about the cap. But while I could certainly be wrong, I think Stafford is no Drew Brees. On the one hand, I have to admire the Rams for taking that "Good is the Enemy of Great" "Can't change the Results by keeping things the same" attitude. On the other hand, like I said (and I could be wrong) I see Stafford as being a flawed QB, just different flaws than Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Big Turk said: McVay's scheme made Goff look good...Stafford should excel in it. Goff is a middling QB. I think some people are going to be shocked at how poor he looks in Detroit. Agree, I look at this from a very simplistic view. If my team signed Goff as their QB, would I be inspired by the signing ? Absolutely not. That tells me all I need to know about my take on Goff as a good QB. Those good years in LA with a healthy Todd Gurley wouldn’t mean a thing to me. Edited January 31, 2021 by SirAndrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, DCOrange said: It’s interesting that Detroit supposedly turned down a better offer from Washington. I’m surprised this Goff-Stafford swap actually happened, but value wise, I think this was in line with what was expected. Don’t think this changes the price for Watson at all. Decent return for Detroit, but Goff’s contract is pretty bad and those 1sts are years down the road and likely in the late 20s to 30s...not super valuable chips. If a team like New England had offered #15, they probably should have taken that instead but it sounds like they just wanted to get Stafford to his top choice, which was LA. What years are the two firsts they traded? Stafford gets $20M this year and $23 next Which I guess is better than $28M and $26M but only by a #2 WR or so. I wonder if the two QB will swap houses? LA property is typically worth a lot more than Detroit property, but there is that imported Italian Marble Stafford installed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: Kupp is one of the best #1 receivers and Woods is one of the best #2 WRs I don't think either player is one that you scheme to stop. They are great fits for that system though. Both players are tough and don't mind those inside routes and blocking. 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What years are the two firsts they traded? Stafford gets $20M this year and $23 next Which I guess is better than $28M and $26M but only by a #2 WR or so. I wonder if the two QB will swap houses? LA property is typically worth a lot more than Detroit property, but there is that imported Italian Marble Stafford installed. Stafford has one of the biggest houses in the US I believe. Detroit has an area that is considered one of the the richest in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 So Watson would cost 11 first round picks 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balln Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said: It’s more than a narrative about Goff. He has negative trade value. If he didn’t, the Rams would’ve traded him to one of the other 10 teams actively looking for a QB. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So I did a bit of looking. Detroit has about $2M in cap assuming a $176M floor Stafford as trade leaves them with $19M in dead money, $14M savings vs. the $33M cap hit he had on the books this year. Goff will be due $27.5M in salary and roster bonus So they're actually OK. Stafford for Goff helps their cap a bit The Rams, on the other hand, are $31.2M in red ink on cap space. Goff as trade gives them $22M of dead cap and saves them $12.75M vs the $34.95M they had on the books BUT, Stafford will be due $27,5M in salary and big honkin' roster bonus from the Rams. So I think they're worse off and need $46M in cap They may need to have a fire sale. Think they'll move anyone we want? Info is from Overthecap and may be off here and there from Spotrac Not a Garoppolo fan? I don't see Goff as being the QB for an Anthony Lynn offensive system in Detroit. Darnold for a 3rd confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mango said: Darnold for a 3rd confirmed Wait wat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: How many SB wins? How much better have they gotten in the last three years as they trade away those first round picks? How good is their cap situation as they trade away the chance to get good young players on rookie contracts for the chance to own older players on expensive second contracts? Winning one post-season game this year and not making the playoffs last year should not be seen as a good result for a team that made the Super Bowl in 2018. Lol if your standards are Super Bowl or bust, Sean McDermott should be fired. Zero Super Bowls!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Detroit did stafford a favor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Wait wat? Sorry, I need a sarcasm font. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mango said: Sorry, I need a sarcasm font. Interesting take 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You could construe that as Saleh not believing Darnold has talent. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, jkeerie said: You could construe that as Saleh not believing Darnold has talent. Well....he is comparing him to SF49ers QB room perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Great post. Goff is not a bad qb at all — just not perfect. However, McVay’s semi-shameless lobbying for genius status and his tendency to lay the blame at Goff’s feet is what drives the narrative. It’s not what I’d call an accurate one. Another Adam Gase in the making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You may be right about the cap. But while I could certainly be wrong, I think Stafford is no Drew Brees. On the one hand, I have to admire the Rams for taking that "Good is the Enemy of Great" "Can't change the Results by keeping things the same" attitude. On the other hand, like I said (and I could be wrong) I see Stafford as being a flawed QB, just different flaws than Goff. Living outside of Detroit from 2011-2016 and NOLA from 2016-present and seeing both QBs close up, I think you could make a pretty good argument that the Saints would have had a better shot at the SB the last 2 seasons with Stafford over Brees. Saints window with Brees basically closed after the missed PI call against the Rams, but they tried to extend it. Despite missing numerous games both seasons, in effect sparing some of his arm, Brees’ arm was dead come playoffs the last 2 seasons. They would have been better off continuing with the game plan they were using for Taysom Hill this season when Brees came back to avoid having Brees throw. There was talk locally (granted, pie in the sky given the cap situation, IMO) the Saints were going to make a play for Stafford. Re Rams with Stafford as opposed to Goff, Stafford can play and can rally when things go sideways, it’s leading where he needs the help. Unlike Detroit, the Rams have a solid locker room and veteran leaders. In addition to being less talented, Goff strikes me as even more milquetoast than Stafford and McVay managed to get them to the SB with him (albeit via a blown PI). I think Stafford in LA may surprise some people, and I think it’s a good gamble by the Rams and a pretty objective assessment of what was holding them back. Also, spending what they did to bring in a 33 yo QB suggests they know what’s down the road a few seasons when the check comes and they have to purge the roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whkfc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said: Completely agree. Rams are probably the favorites to win NFC next year. Detroit is probably the favorite for the #1 overall pick. totally agree and with the Rams most likely playing thier 1st season with fans in the new stadium in LA a splash was necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Rams will not have a first round pick again until 2024. Their last first round pick was Jared Goff in 2016. 7 years between first round picks is kinda crazy. Might be more with the way they seem willing to trade them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 If the Lions were really playing 3D chess (they never are), they’d flip Goff to the Bears for a 3rd and eat half the salary. Then they’d be subsidizing a division rival having a mediocre QB (which is a colossal upgrade for the Bears) for a few years, plus some of the salary would come off their books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Whkfc said: totally agree and with the Rams most likely playing thier 1st season with fans in the new stadium in LA a splash was necessary. Please look at their passing statistics the last four seasons and explain to me why Stafford is a huge upgrade from Jared Goff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Beast said: The Lions made out like bandits. Stafford is about as overrated as they come. Don’t worry, they’ll blow it pick a kicker, punter, and Long Snapper. It’s the kitty cats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 30 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Interesting take Yup. As Trotter said "the Texans control this." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerDave Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: Those GMs should probably not be GMs. Goff is precisely the type of QB teams should constantly be trying to replace IMO. A talented passer but he just doesn’t have it between the ears at all. If a play doesn’t play out exactly as expected, he’s screwed. What about the GM that gave Goff that horrendous contract? Should they not be a GM? I think part of the trade had to do with the Rams paying penance for giving that contract to Goff (who they obviously did not completely believe in) and trying to rid themselves of that awful sin and the taint that goes with it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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