The running game has to be there vs KC this week.

[Billever76]

2 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Agreed but you can't keep them from becoming blitz happy and tee-ing of on Josh, if we don't run more than what we have in this postseason.  It is a key weapon too to keep PH and their O on the sidelines.  Time of possession needs to be on our side in this game.

We want them to go Blitz happy and T off on Josh..no qb in the league has torched the Blitz like Allen this year

[jkeerie]

We moved the ball on Saturday with a balanced attack.  You have to at least offer the threat of the run.  That also opens up play action. I'd like to see Williams active in this game.  A bigger back that hits the hole with quickness.

[Toyo321]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

We want them to go Blitz happy and T off on Josh..no qb in the league has torched the Blitz like Allen this year

It only takes one bad hit on a blitz and Josh could be hurt, he is lucky he is 6'5 and 240lbs.  Look at all the QB's that took hits this weekend, LJ and PH.

Josh got crushed from behind on a corner blitz by the Ravens and he got up slow and was hurting when he went to the sidelines.

He finished the game but you can't put a huge red X on his shirt for the entire game.

The running game helps prevent that. 

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

We've had plenty of 5 or 6 minutes drives with almost nothing but short throws.  The game is move the ball and stop the other team from moving the ball.  

These are the drives I want to see 5-6 minutes drives that lead to TDs. This game is going to be a marathon not a sprint.

[Joe Ferguson]

Derr. We nEed to rUn to eStaBlish tHe pAsS...Derrrr.

Screw that crap. Bills need to pass, pass and pass some more. They need to pass when they kickoff. They need to pass when they punt. And most importantly, pass when they take a dump. PASS THE BALL ALL THE TIME!!!

[Solomon Grundy]

I would like to see some flair routes to the RBs. They’re like an extended handoff. Motor and TJ are capable of making plays. Was a staple of Brady’s offense in NE

[djp14150]

Last time I checked, things like screens or underneath passes to RBs are effectively runs.

 

its about

 

control the ball to use up clock

get TDs let them get FGs

get up 2 scores late forcing them out of a running game.

do not play prevent on mahomes. Play normal D.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Dabol’s methodology calls for attacking what he believes to be the weaknesses of the individual D the Bills face that week. Whether the Bills run, or not, will depend upon this philosophy.

 

It's going to be interesting what Daboll perceives as our best option

 

Week 6, we started out passing and struggled (I think in large part due to Allen's shoulder), then tried to run.  We were pretty ineffective at both - 27 passing attempts for 4.5 YPA and 84 rush attempts for 3.65 ypc.  Since that time, we've changed up the interior of our OL (both guards), Allen's shoulder seems to have healed and he's regained much of his earlier season improvements, and we've had some games where we ran pretty effectively.

 

Over the season as a whole, KC has a good but not great defense with bend-don't-break tendencies.  #10 on points, but #18 and #19 for NYA passing and YA rushing.

 

When people say that the Bills can't run, it's a bit misleading. 

 

The league average is 118.9 ypg on the ground, 4.4 ypa.  The Bills average is 108 ypg and 4.2 ypa, so below league average.  I haven't done the crunching for other teams, but I can tell you that those average numbers are deceptive for the Bills - a real "on average, the Duck is Dead" situation. 

 

We had 5 games where our YPG were above league average, and in 3 of them we were well above the average of the 5 best rushing teams in the league and above average ypa for most of them as well. There were 2 other games where our rush yard total was below league average, but our average YPA were well above league average - very efficient.

 

My best guess is that he'll believe we can pass on KC, but he'll want us to be able to do some clock-control offense and keep their offense off the field if we can.

 

[BillsShredder83]

4 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Agreed but you can't keep them from becoming blitz happy and tee-ing of on Josh, if we don't run more than what we have in this postseason.  It is a key weapon too to keep PH and their O on the sidelines.  Time of possession needs to be on our side in this game.

While a legit run game would be amazing, I just don't think we have the tools.  That said, I think some quick slants, wr bubbles, and some McKenzie end arounds keep defenses from blitzing all game. 

Hell vs balt, we used the pass to setup the run lol. Cbs and safeties keep moving back off the line and all the sudden we hit on a few draw plays lol its only crazy if it doesn't work. Daboll schemed well last week, and I expect him to be better this week with HC interviews off the table.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

While a legit run game would be amazing, I just don't think we have the tools.

 

So your explanation for why we rushed for 190 yds (5 ypa) against the Patriots, 182 yds (7.6 ypa) against the Broncos, and 172 yds (5.7 ypa) against the Chargers would be....what?

 

Broncos have kind of a poor rush D - 29 in ypa - but NE and Chargers kind of mid-pack (20th for NE, 17th for the Chargers)

KC is 19th.

 

We probably legit don't have the tools against a really top-notch run defending DL.  Our OL is only OK at run blocking; a physical big DL that can get off blocks can shut us down; Singletary is not a "power" back.  I'm not sure KC is that top notch run defending DL?  I need to know more about who they were missing in different parts of the season and so forth - the details.

 

 

Quote

  That said, I think some quick slants, wr bubbles, and some McKenzie end arounds keep defenses from blitzing all game. 

 

The thing that keeps teams from blitzing Josh Allen all game right now, is Josh Allen.  Even Baltimore backed the heck off from 46% blitz to 20% blitz, and as Chris Simms pointed out -  when they did blitz, Allen was 6 of 7 for 57 yds and a TD. (Baltimore did *simulate* pressure then drop different guys back into coverage more than that, I think)

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

You think they can set a dozen plays specifically for Devonta Freeman? A half dozen run plays, 3-4 Pass protect plays and maybe even 3-4 plays where he’s an option in the passing game?

 

Is Freeman even an option going forward or is it gonna be Yeldon? Or Williams? (Doubtful).....

A dozen? Lol nooooo. Im going with 3, maybe 4 tops.  If he shows something, he can earn snaps like everyone else. He has no chemistry or track record with this team

2 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Playoff rushing yards every game this year by each team and the loser.

              Indy  Buff Loser Indy
              163   96
              LA    Sea  Loser Seattle
              164   136
              Tampa Wash Loser Wash
              142   86
              Balt  Tenn Loser Tenn
              236   51 
              NO    Chic Loser Chicago
              123   48
              Clev  Pitt Loser Pitt
              127   52
              LA    GB   Loser LA
              96    188
              Balt  Buff Loser Balt
              150   32
              Clev  KC   Loser Clev
              112   123
              Bucs  NO   Loser NO
              127   104

Buffalo is the only team in any of the playoff rounds to lose the rushing game total in each game and win.
This a dangerous trend and this is skating on thin ice!!!

Out of context, sure. But how much of this was winning teams killin clock, and losing teams abandoning the run. Not being Jerky, just a consideration 

[eball]

No, it doesn’t.

[beer]

I would pass every play. EVERY PLAY. It's the AFC championship game, play to your strengths 

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

Just for information.....

 

The idea you need to run the ball well to win VS KC...just doesn't bear itself out when you look at the stats.

 

KC has been outrushed 8 times this year.  KC won all 8

 

KC has lost TOP 8 times this year.  KC won all 8

 

 

Always appreciate your posts, but I think you're overshooting a bit here. Running the ball more/better for the Bills probably doesn't equal dominating on the ground and on the clock. What I'd hope the Bills try to do is simply maintain some shred of balance or at least threat of effective running, in order to either a) force KC's D (LBs and especially Mathieu) to take a couple steps forward from time to time to open up the zones or 2) actually convert a few first downs running the ball when the defense is absolutely daring them to do so. 

 

Difficult to sustain one-dimensional offensive success against NFL defensive coordinators. It's possible that we're seeing the new-ish book on defending the Bills offense, which is ironically the exact approach the Bills implemented against KC in week six: drop into deep zones with 7 or 8 defenders and dare them to beat you underneath and on the ground. It's been "working" so far in the playoffs, in that the Bills have been kept well below season averages with under 30 and under 20 points. I'd like to see Daboll/Allen adjust again and get back in a groove. That might mean running the ball more/better.

[Zerovoltz]

2 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Always appreciate your posts, but I think you're overshooting a bit here. Running the ball more/better for the Bills probably doesn't equal dominating on the ground and on the clock. What I'd hope the Bills try to do is simply maintain some shred of balance or at least threat of effective running, in order to either a) force KC's D (LBs and especially Mathieu) to take a couple steps forward from time to time to open up the zones or 2) actually convert a few first downs running the ball when the defense is absolutely daring them to do so. 

 

Difficult to sustain one-dimensional offensive success against NFL defensive coordinators. It's possible that we're seeing the new-ish book on defending the Bills offense, which is ironically the exact approach the Bills implemented against KC in week six: drop into deep zones with 7 or 8 defenders and dare them to beat you underneath and on the ground. It's been "working" so far in the playoffs, in that the Bills have been kept well below season averages with under 30 and under 20 points. I'd like to see Daboll/Allen adjust again and get back in a groove. That might mean running the ball more/better.

 

...I was about to add...and I've alluded to it in anotehr post aroudn here somehwere.....KC defends WR very well...RBs and TE's they don't....it's all a because KC's LB corps is well below average.  Their DB stable is DEEP.  KC is playing the strongest D it can field when it is in nickel and dime....and if you can't run or threaten with passes to the RB and TE....then KC is going to be in Nickel and Dime A LOT.  You wnat KC in base packages with 3LB on the field...it's by far our worst look on D.

[Richard Noggin]

Just now, Zerovoltz said:

 

...I was about to add...and I've alluded to it in anotehr post aroudn here somehwere.....KC defends WR very well...RBs and TE's they don't....it's all a because KC's LB corps is well below average.  Their DB stable is DEEP.  KC is playing the strongest D it can field when it is in nickel and dime....and if you can't run or threaten with passes to the RB and TE....then KC is going to be in Nickel and Dime A LOT.  You wnat KC in base packages with 3LB on the field...it's by far our worst look on D.

 

Thanks. That speaks to my point about effective running making Spagnuolo play the Bills a little more "straight up" (rather than our offense suddenly morphing into something it isn't and probably shouldn't want to be--a run-first attack). If the Honey Badger has to play up a bit, and he and the one or two LBs have to step forward post-snap or at least think about their run keys, that helps to open up lanes and holes in the zones. Might limit how creative Spags can be with his coverage combos and occasional pressure packages. Every little inch helps, hehe.

[NewEra]

Would be nice if we could get it going. I wouldn’t count on it being very effective though 

[JoshAllin]

Nah,  I say keep attacking with Allen at helm and pull off a seattle game vs the chiefs. Raiders got it done with the pass attack vs kc and the chiefs D aren't the ravens

[97bills]

It’s funny everyone always says let’s make a team one dimensional but now it’s the bills only passing it with no run game it’s ok we’ll keep telling your self that. If you don’t think Andy Reid want come up with something to slow our pass down think again plus Allen and Mahomes are slimmer players so he knows a little about throwing the ball. We got to run the ball some to keep them from just keying in on the pass and I think it really hurt us not running on the ravens I really think we score more points. This is the playoffs teams are better i would just like to see Allen actually give it to a running back on one of those fake draws probably hit a big run because I promise the linebackers are dropping back every play not looking for the draw they watch tape to and see Allen never hands it off 

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Always appreciate your posts, but I think you're overshooting a bit here. Running the ball more/better for the Bills probably doesn't equal dominating on the ground and on the clock. What I'd hope the Bills try to do is simply maintain some shred of balance or at least threat of effective running, in order to either a) force KC's D (LBs and especially Mathieu) to take a couple steps forward from time to time to open up the zones or 2) actually convert a few first downs running the ball when the defense is absolutely daring them to do so. 

 

Difficult to sustain one-dimensional offensive success against NFL defensive coordinators. It's possible that we're seeing the new-ish book on defending the Bills offense, which is ironically the exact approach the Bills implemented against KC in week six: drop into deep zones with 7 or 8 defenders and dare them to beat you underneath and on the ground. It's been "working" so far in the playoffs, in that the Bills have been kept well below season averages with under 30 and under 20 points. I'd like to see Daboll/Allen adjust again and get back in a groove. That might mean running the ball more/better.

You hit on every point and I’m willing to bet Andy Reid is going to dare us to run. He knows a little about passing the ball I’m sure he has some insight on how to slow it down. 

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, BITE ME said:

I disagree with needing to run if we get a lead.  If we get a lead keep passing and add to the lead.  I think the Bills are going to pass all over the Chiefs this weekend.  We are talking 400 plus yards.  

If winning means throw like crazy then sit Devin and let it fly.

[PrimeTime101]

Some think to beat KC you have to control the clock

Others feel you should out score them and play clean football

Some also think it needs to be a balance

 

With this team we control Time of Possession with a little run and lots of pass. Look how much Baltimore ran? and they got 10 minutes of time over us that last game.

KC way more balanced then Baltimore so if they get 4 minutes on us that's not a lot.

 

KC has a solid defense but no where near Baltimore D and right where Indy in points allowed BUT KC offense helps take pressure off that defense with points for.

 

The only way we stick with any kind of run game is if within the first 3-4 runs we show we can gash them.. if not expect 10-12 runs from our running back 5-6 from our QB and rest we going to air it out with them. Our offense is high power enough to hang with them and our defense is warming up.

[CEN-CAL17]

8 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

A dozen? Lol nooooo. Im going with 3, maybe 4 

I’m talking plays he’s familiar with in the playbook.... not how many touches he gets.

 

12-14 plays in the book he can pick up or fits his style best. Doesn’t mean he actually gets on the field. It’s just familiarization..... So you only want him to know 3 plays. Here Devonta, here’s the only 3 plays you need to know. Is that what you mean?

[BillsShredder83]

43 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I’m talking plays he’s familiar with in the playbook.... not how many touches he gets.

 

12-14 plays in the book he can pick up or fits his style best. Doesn’t mean he actually gets on the field. It’s just familiarization..... So you only want him to know 3 plays. Here Devonta, here’s the only 3 plays you need to know. Is that what you mean?

Was def thinking touches lol but yeah, id think a few slow developing run plays to use his vision would be ideal. Few counters, draws, and a few delayed routes where he sneaks into a soft spot of a zone after looking like he's in for pass protection. He's slowed down but I think he could help bring something to the table with these

[97bills]

17 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Playoff rushing yards every game this year by each team and the loser.

              Indy  Buff Loser Indy
              163   96
              LA    Sea  Loser Seattle
              164   136
              Tampa Wash Loser Wash
              142   86
              Balt  Tenn Loser Tenn
              236   51 
              NO    Chic Loser Chicago
              123   48
              Clev  Pitt Loser Pitt
              127   52
              LA    GB   Loser LA
              96    188
              Balt  Buff Loser Balt
              150   32
              Clev  KC   Loser Clev
              112   123
              Bucs  NO   Loser NO
              127   104

Buffalo is the only team in any of the playoff rounds to lose the rushing game total in each game and win.
This a dangerous trend and this is skating on thin ice!!!

I agree and everyone talks about going toe to toe with KC but KC runs the ball well that sets up those big plays. And I was screaming at my tv when we didn’t run at all playing the ravens 

[Billever76]

We must play the way that got us here period imo

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, Billever76 said:

We must play the way that got us here period imo

The good news is that "what got us here" keeps changing from game to game.

 

We have not been hitting on a successful formula over and over again, waiting for someone to find a way to stop it.

 

It speaks to the strength of the team overall as a unit.

 

I personally view almost all run plays as a waste of a down, so I'm happy to see them throw.  Now and again a running play makes sense and is the better choice.

 

 

[nucci]

20 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

I don't know how they need to get it done but the running game needs to be on point for this weeks AFCCG vs KC.

They need to have some kind of running attack to keep KC from playing us one dimensionally on D .

Be it Motor, TJ or even Williams.  Something has to be done on the ground this week to beat these guys.

If we don't run the ball this week it could be as far as we go this year.  The weather could be a issue with rain predicted for 

the game so that is why it's even more important to get yards on the ground this week.

 

you can throw the ball when it's raining. Why change the offense now?  We will throw and mix in a run or 2

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

Would be nice if we could get it going. I wouldn’t count on it being very effective though 

 

Again...where does this notion come from?

 

Bottom line, I'm not saying we have a great or even a good run game, but it's shown flashes and it's been at least competent since the bye.  Data:

 

The league average for YPG is 118.9 YPG. 

The Bills have 5 games where our rush yardage exceeds this average

 

The average of the 5 highest-rush-yard teams is 159.6 ypg - so being able to rush for >159 ypg is excellent

The Bills have 3 games where we exceeded 160 ypg.

 

The league average in ypa is 4.4.  The Bills average is 4.2, which puts them 19th in the league (or slightly worse than average).  The Bills had 6 games where we exceeded this average YPA.  Two of them had lower than average rush yardage, showing good efficiency.

 

The 5 best rush teams in the league have an average of 5 ypa.  The Bills had 3 games which met or exceeded that - the same 3 games which exceeded 159 ypg - showing that the result was not simply the effect of rushing more, we were also rushing efficiently.   

 

One last "fast fact" about the run game - since the Bye week when we said we were going to focus on improving the run and pretty much settled into our current OL, our regular-season run game is averaging 120 ypg and 4.5 ypa (both above league average) while our # attempts per game has stayed at 26 - showing we did achieve some improvement. 

 

Unfortunately, losing Zach Moss may not help us sustain that.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

We must play the way that got us here period imo

 

What way is that?

 

[NewEra]

46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Again...where does this notion come from?

 

Bottom line, I'm not saying we have a great or even a good run game, but it's shown flashes and it's been at least competent since the bye.  Data:

 

The league average for YPG is 118.9 YPG. 

The Bills have 5 games where our rush yardage exceeds this average

 

The average of the 5 highest-rush-yard teams is 159.6 ypg - so being able to rush for >159 ypg is excellent

The Bills have 3 games where we exceeded 160 ypg.

 

The league average in ypa is 4.4.  The Bills average is 4.2, which puts them 19th in the league (or slightly worse than average).  The Bills had 6 games where we exceeded this average YPA.  Two of them had lower than average rush yardage, showing good efficiency.

 

The 5 best rush teams in the league have an average of 5 ypa.  The Bills had 3 games which met or exceeded that - the same 3 games which exceeded 159 ypg - showing that the result was not simply the effect of rushing more, we were also rushing efficiently.   

 

One last "fast fact" about the run game - since the Bye week when we said we were going to focus on improving the run and pretty much settled into our current OL, our regular-season run game is averaging 120 ypg and 4.5 ypa (both above league average) while our # attempts per game has stayed at 26 - showing we did achieve some improvement. 

 

Unfortunately, losing Zach Moss may not help us sustain that.

 

 

 

 

What way is that?

 

Mostly because the chiefs dominated our running backs last game when we played them earlier combined with the fact that we lost Zack Moss....combined with my lack of confidence in our OL as run blockers. 
 

after listening to Daboll presser yesterday, the way he answered a question regarding our run game vs the chiefs (I forget the specifics) just didn’t trigger positive vibes. 

that’s why I feel that way.  I hope I’m wrong

[DrDawkinstein]

21 hours ago, Frat-Train said:

I’d argue we’ve faced two better defenses than theirs so far and we didn’t need much of a run game.  Totally ok with staying the course.  

 

21 hours ago, metzelaars_lives said:

It totally doesn't.

 

This right here.

 

The only thing that "has to" happen is the Bills win. However they get there doesnt matter. All passes, zero passes, 3 special teams TDs... doesnt matter. There are no style points. Just win.

[Billsfan1972]

You play to your strengths plain & simple.  Pass, pass, pass....   Maybe a scramble or two also.  

 

Throw in a screens and tosses to the Isaiah here & there too.

 

If you look at the earlier game, they were thrown off there game, because of KC's running.Throw in not great weather too...

 

 

[Toyo321]

1 hour ago, nucci said:

you can throw the ball when it's raining. Why change the offense now?  We will throw and mix in a run or 2

We don't need to change the offense, we need to make it better.  If the weather is crap for this game with wind and rain, this will be actually worse than the Ravens game where it was just strong winds.  Josh missed some throws badly against Ravens that he should have made and we had receivers that could not make some key grabs.  Running will make us a bigger threat to KC and to just abandon the run completely stupid IMO.  Andy Reid is brilliant at exploiting opposition weakness and capitalizing on it, you can't play into his hands and mindset.  You have to keep him and KC guessing.  When we lost to KC this year we got killed in time of possession and also on the ground by KC's running game.  They ran the ball really well.  We need to do the same to them this time around.  I truly hope our D has a lights out game this week.  

Edited January 19, 2021 by Toyo321

[teef]

i'm of the group that doesn't feel a strong need for the run game, but it would be nice that a 2nd or 3rd and 1 situation wasn't stopped at the line seemingly every single time.  

[Billsfan1972]

17 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm of the group that doesn't feel a strong need for the run game, but it would be nice that a 2nd or 3rd and 1 situation wasn't stopped at the line seemingly every single time.  

Lately the worst outcome for the Bills is gaining 8 yards on 1st down and then thinking "No way we can't get a first down running the ball from here".....

[Unforgiven]

Just step on the turf toe...and win

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Zach Moss was not much of a loss. 

 

I've thought all along that Singletary was a better running back. 

 

Similar to what we saw pregame with the Chiefs and Browns, that Chubb and Hunt are good, and the Chiefs are average stopping the run, so the Browns must run it, I think the same thing applies now, where it's being said that Bills can't run the ball. 

 

Singletary is fine and I do think he needs 6-8 carries in this game, along with a couple of touches in the pass game. But I would expect this gameplan to still be overwhelmingly pass heavy and think it should stay that way. 

 

The Bills are best in 4-wide and 5-wide. 

 

 

34 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm of the group that doesn't feel a strong need for the run game, but it would be nice that a 2nd or 3rd and 1 situation wasn't stopped at the line seemingly every single time.  

Agree, we get no push and lose yards everytime, especially when we try to stretch to the outside. 

 

3rd-1 is a passing down for the Bills. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Straight Hucklebuck

[YoloinOhio]

Mongo is hilarious 

 

 

[whorlnut]

22 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

I don't know how they need to get it done but the running game needs to be on point for this weeks AFCCG vs KC.

They need to have some kind of running attack to keep KC from playing us one dimensionally on D .

Be it Motor, TJ or even Williams.  Something has to be done on the ground this week to beat these guys.

If we don't run the ball this week it could be as far as we go this year.  The weather could be a issue with rain predicted for 

the game so that is why it's even more important to get yards on the ground this week.

 

This is not a good take. We have had one of the best passing offenses all year and a fairly week run game. We have won 15 games by doing it this way. 

[LabattBlue]

There are only so many offensive snaps in one game.  If passing the ball gives them a better chance to get a 1st down, score a TD, convert a 3rd down, or control the ball with the lead, then so be it. 
 

Ground and pound when two of your active RB’s will be a guy who the coaches have refused to use for two years now, and some UDFA who had his 5 seconds of fame in week 17?  Thanks but no thanks.  

[Heitz]

Run game HAS to be there.  Just like it did last week.  And the week before.  

 

Guessing Daboll will figure out what our O needs to do