End of the Carson Wentz Era

[Victory Formation]

31 minutes ago, 947 said:

Nobody is trading for Wentz with that $34.6M cap hit in 2021, plus giving up a pick. The Eagles will have to cut him & eat the dead money.

 

After he's cut, then yeah I could see Pittsburgh or the Pats interested.

 

Steelers, Pats, Colts, Bears, Saints, & 49ers could all be looking for a new QB. Wentz, Darnold, & Winston are likely the best available and are all major reclamation projects. Who knows what'll happen.

Colts would make sense for Wentz.. I’m not sure how all the linguistics will play out but I could see that.. Would be the best fit for him..

[John from Riverside]

So now Josh Allen must carry the mantle at the NFL Combines as the comparison for ultra talented go to nowhere schools that might make it in the NFL?

 

Somehow....I think Josh can handle it

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It took balls JAR to post this but I for one tend to agree.  Not only was his OL great the rest of the team was great.

PHI has used the "credit card" for years now and it's coming back to bite them in the ass this coming off season.

Any Gm/HC going there is in for real tough times.

 

My prediction is that a bunch of PHI players will want out after this year.  The Eagles will most likely end up in the NFCE basement next year.

The Iggles cap situation is so bad going into 2021 that they won’t be able to rectify it in just that one season.  It’ll take 2-3 seasons to clear the books.  $260M in cap hits for 41 players going into 2021.  They’ll likely have something around $175M plus $22M in carryover to work with.

 

Some of their high cap hit players aren’t cut or trade candidates due to huge dead cap hits so they’ll have to keep them and convert salary into a signing bonus to kick some of the hit down the road.  Others will be traded or cut.  Replacements will be cheap.  It is ugly now and it’s going to be ugly for awhile for them. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by BarleyNY

[Captain Hindsight]

2 hours ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

Darnold to Pittsburgh.

Why does everyone think Pittsburgh wants a bust QB who hasnt improved in any category or the eye test since his rookie year?

 

Mike Tomlin won games last year with a dude named Duck. He doesnt need to give up a draft pick for a former 1st round bust like Darnold.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The Iggles cap situation is so bad going into 2021 that they won’t be able to rectify it in just that one season.  It’ll take 2-3 seasons to clear the books.  $260M in cap hits for 41 players.  They’ll have something close to $175M plus $22M in carryover to work with.  Some of their high cap hit players aren’t cut or trade candidates due to huge dead cap hits so they’ll have to keep them and convert salary into a signing bonus to kick some of the hit down the road.  It is ugly now and it’s going to be ugly for awhile. 

 

It's almost like no one told them there is a salary cap.

[x-BillzeBubba]

Carson Cutler, more like

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's almost like no one told them there is a salary cap.

No kidding.  They were really going to an extreme in what I have to assume was an attempt at another Super Bowl run.

[Virgil]

I heard on the radio his big money extension doesn’t kick in until after this season.  Is that relevant?  Can they get out from that contract?

 

I thought, whether it’s deemed an extension or not, it’s a new deal on day 1 of signing so they are already on the hook. 

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The Iggles cap situation is so bad going into 2021 that they won’t be able to rectify it in just that one season.  It’ll take 2-3 seasons to clear the books.  $260M in cap hits for 41 players going into 2021.  They’ll likely have something around $175M plus $22M in carryover to work with.

 

Some of their high cap hit players aren’t cut or trade candidates due to huge dead cap hits so they’ll have to keep them and convert salary into a signing bonus to kick some of the hit down the road.  Others will be traded or cut.  Replacements will be cheap.  It is ugly now and it’s going to be ugly for awhile for them. 

 

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's almost like no one told them there is a salary cap.

 

You guys understand the cap better than most around here and it's just a fact.  Eagles are in trouble.

One thing I noticed over the past few years is the Eagles have been "restructuring"  contracts at a break neck speed.

That caught up with them too this coming off season as they already got 8 guys restructured on the roster in 2021.

 

If they stick with Wentz I just don't know how they make it work in the coming 2 seasons.  It also seems they have to dump

at least one high dollar DL.

 

I for one am going to watch them (and the Saints) a lot in the off season to see how they try to get through this!

8 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I heard on the radio his big money extension doesn’t kick in until after this season.  Is that relevant?  Can they get out from that contract?

 

I thought, whether it’s deemed an extension or not, it’s a new deal on day 1 of signing so they are already on the hook. 

 

$59 million dead money in 2021.  If they can get a trade partner it goes down to $34 million.

[QCity]

 

[Sharky7337]

Hes on the sam darnold plan

[ProcessAccepted]

3 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I think Wentz would love to have the team and career path Josh has had.  Wentz came in with a bang whereas Allen has improved each year.   Wentz a second draft pick and on a winning SB teams his second year, that is world of expectations.  Allen was hotly contested with his now infamous accuracy issues.  The Eagles situation is borderline fire, HC now in jeopardy, way over the salary cap, many injuries.

If they can lower his cost I would not be surprised to see him in Indy next year

[CircleTheWagons99]

I understand Foles is not a world beater, but man what a dumb decision to pay Wentz and let Foles (SB MVP) go. 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

I understand Foles is not a world beater, but man what a dumb decision to pay Wentz and let Foles (SB MVP) go. 

Foles has been either bad or injured since he left Philly. 2-9 over 11 starts and a rating of 82. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

29 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I heard on the radio his big money extension doesn’t kick in until after this season.  Is that relevant?  Can they get out from that contract?

 

I thought, whether it’s deemed an extension or not, it’s a new deal on day 1 of signing so they are already on the hook. 

 

13 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

If they can lower his cost I would not be surprised to see him in Indy next year

 

So... https://overthecap.com/player/carson-wentz/4715/

 

The entire prorated bonus column would hit on day 1 if they trade or release him.  So 33M right there.  Option bonus kicks in on day 3 - so if you trade him... someone else could theoretically pay that.  But if someone else picks that up it basically is a 2 year deal for 47.4 million (year 2 of the deal is fully guaranteed the same day they trigger the bonus) + additional years at 25 and 26 million.  So you could trade for him at 4 years 94 million.  

 

But the problem is - no ones going to trade for a damaged goods QB where the first year is a 25.4 cap hit, with a fully guaranteed 2nd year at 22.  So now your cap hit to trade him is 43 million... which is a cap hit that is 9 million over the current one... and the team is over the cap.

 

Cutting him jumps it up to 59 - which is impossible to fit in.  They have to pay the roster bonus, the base salary, and all the bonuses they already paid out. 

 

They need to find someone to commit to him for 2 years.  I don't think anyones paying that bonus unless you're packaging a draft pick (likely a 1st or 2nd) with wentz.  

 

Cluster. F*ck.

Edited December 8, 2020 by dneveu

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

He just signed a 4yr/$128M ($107M guaranteed) extension that HASNT EVEN STARTED YET! 😳 And they are already benching him.

 

Philly is so screwed. There is no getting out of it.

 

Wentz however, can just ride this out and collect his money but without all the damage to his body. Smart move sucking so badly.

 

 

 

His dead money next year is $60M. Tough to eat that when the cap is staying flat at best.

 

34 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I heard on the radio his big money extension doesn’t kick in until after this season.  Is that relevant?  Can they get out from that contract?

 

I thought, whether it’s deemed an extension or not, it’s a new deal on day 1 of signing so they are already on the hook. 

 

See above. They are SCREWED

 

It is a signed contract with guarantees. Doesnt matter that it technically hasnt started yet. It's effectively the same as adding to the existing contract.

Edited December 8, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[y2zipper]

Player progressions not 100% linear. The fact that he's having a down year doesn't mean that you cut bait. I think that there is not a way out of the contract, but I also think Wentz is pretty good considering the past 3 years. Well managed teams don't bail on coaches and quarterbacks quickly.

 

There's not a stupider look than saying that Philadelphia should have kept Nick Foles. Carson Wentz is better than Nick Foles this year and was excellent in 2018 after the injury and was pretty good last year too.

 

This year I think the issues are mental and that time off for him is going to be good in the same way that it was for Josh Allen when he got hurt. More than anything, Philly gets to protect the long-term investment and can move hurts if he looks like a decent prospect or can keep him if he world beats, but that's doubtful.

[LabattBlue]

Unless Hurts does a Russell Wilson impersonation over the last 4 games, I fully expect the Eagles to fix the OL, get rid of lead foot Jeffrey, replace him with an above average vet WR, and give him another chance next September. 
 

They don’t really have a choice his cap hit is massive in 2021 and 2022. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Back the Blue

[Mr. WEO]

but what if Allen turns out to be Wentz???!!

 

Oh, sorry,   that was for one of the other Wentz something something Josh Allen threads

13 minutes ago, Back the Blue said:

Unless Hurts does a Russell Wilson impersonation over the last 4 games, I fully expect the Eagles to fix the OL, get rid of lead foot Jeffrey, replace him with an above average vet WR, and give him another chance next September. 
 

They don’t really have a choice his cap hit is massive in 2021 and 2022. 

 

 

Why would you fully expect Philly to do that now?  They were just holding back?

Edited December 8, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[Rk_Bills86]

Wentz is a good QB that looked "GREAT" with a functioning O-Line and with weapons around him. A better way to look at him would be:

 

- He can make use of talent around him OR He does not waste talent around him.

 

This is NOT the same as being a phenomenal QB - which can be defined as someone that makes those around him look even better. This is reserved for the likes of Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, and even Brady. 

 

Wentz is 100% a starting caliber NFL QB - but like many - including our very own JA - needs talent around him to succeed. He does not have the skill to literally drag players and terrible teams into the playoffs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Jobot said:

Just total speculation.. but I have a feeling this guy doesn't put in the necessary work to be a professional quarterback. Lot of outside-football hobbies that he's into.

 

Like what?  Not doubting, just curious...

 

5 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Who remembers when Josh Allen was called a poor man's Carson Wentz?

 

Wentz would love to be half the quarterback Allen is.

 

I remember when "Era" actually meant a series of years, not just 1 or 2

[wjag]

Carson, we hardly knew ya. 

[BuffaloRebound]

I don’t think Hurts is the answer for Philly.  He’s got EJ Manuel deer-in-headlights-itis in the pocket.  Maybe the Philly OL is that bad that you gotta put a guy back there that can move.  Bad situation to be in.  Wentz is a shell of the QB he was when he first came into the League.  It’s not all on the team around him.  There might be something physical but it just looks like his heart ain’t into it anymore.  Sad to see.  He looked like he was gonna be one of the games best for next 10-15 years.  

[Behindenemylines]

He probably needs a Tannehill type change of scenery. Hate to see a talent flame out usually but since it’s Philly I’m more open. 

[BruceVilanch]

8 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

The Eagles will most likely end up in the NFCE basement next year

interestingly enough, the basement in the NFCE is one floor below the penthouse.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

He probably needs a Tannehill type change of scenery. Hate to see a talent flame out usually but since it’s Philly I’m more open. 

 

I'd put Wentz in the Tannehill/Carr/Stafford/Cousins category of QB. Better than average. Good enough to win a lot of games and make the playoffs with a strong supporting cast. Probably never good enough to win a SB. 

[BarleyNY]

15 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

You guys understand the cap better than most around here and it's just a fact.  Eagles are in trouble.

One thing I noticed over the past few years is the Eagles have been "restructuring"  contracts at a break neck speed.

That caught up with them too this coming off season as they already got 8 guys restructured on the roster in 2021.

 

If they stick with Wentz I just don't know how they make it work in the coming 2 seasons.  It also seems they have to dump

at least one high dollar DL.

 

I for one am going to watch them (and the Saints) a lot in the off season to see how they try to get through this!

 

$59 million dead money in 2021.  If they can get a trade partner it goes down to $34 million.

Thanks.  Those are the two teams I’ll be watching closely too.  Typically the road to getting under the cap is pretty straightforward even if it’s painful - and the situation usually makes sense.  New Orleans is in worse shape than Philly, but they’ve got a 41 year old HOF QB.  It makes sense for them to make a last run and then deal with Armageddon.  But Philly?  I have no idea what they were thinking.  If they thought Wentz was their guy, then why necessitate a tear down?  If they thought they made a mistake with him, then why go all in on 2020 with the rest of the roster?

 

I get that teams got caught a bit with the revenue/cap decrease, but the NO and Philly situations were going to be very bad anyway.  Those two teams are going to have to use every method at their disposal to get under the cap.  And don’t expect them to get a break from the league.  30 other teams will benefit from their situations so they won’t be having it.  

[H2o]

19 hours ago, Seasons1992 said:

He may go to Indy next year........just pack that away in your memory banks.

They can't move him. He leaves $60,000,000 in dead $$$ if they move him next year and almost $25,000,000 in 2022. This has to be one of the worst contracts ever doled out in history. The Eagles are left with nothing, but buyer's remorse for the next year and a half at least. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/carson-wentz-18950/

[CircleTheWagons99]

16 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Foles has been either bad or injured since he left Philly. 2-9 over 11 starts and a rating of 82. 

Since he left the team/system he succeeded with. 

[Captain Caveman]

I think Wentz is a perfect example of what can happen when a talented QB loses a great coordinator (Reich.)

[LabattBlue]

24 minutes ago, H2o said:

They can't move him. He leaves $60,000,000 in dead $$$ if they move him next year and almost $25,000,000 in 2022. This has to be one of the worst contracts ever doled out in history. The Eagles are left with nothing, but buyer's remorse for the next year and a half at least. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/carson-wentz-18950/

Yep.  This is why their only option is to hope that he regains his mojo next season...or he will be a very expensive bench warmer for at least 2021.  

[TheFunPolice]

It seems like half the Eagles team is always hurt for whatever reason.

 

Really, he had one great chunk of 1 year before he got hurt, and has really never been able to get back to that level since.

 

As far as Foles goes, it's odd that he can apparently only play on the Eagles or vs Tom Brady!

[Seasons1992]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

They can't move him. He leaves $60,000,000 in dead $$$ if they move him next year and almost $25,000,000 in 2022. This has to be one of the worst contracts ever doled out in history. The Eagles are left with nothing, but buyer's remorse for the next year and a half at least. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/carson-wentz-18950/

 

They can move him, if it's a trade; Indy would have to pick up a lot of money. 

[mannc]

20 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

I think a lot of his issues are mental at this point.  Processing time hasn't improved, and may actually be worse. His pocket presence has been terrible, seems to roll and steer himself to sacks. And his throwing platform is a mess.

 

So basically he holds the ball too long, doesn't find open receivers, can't buy time, and can't throw remotely accurately.

That’s a pretty good summary.  Those blaming Pederson, injuries and/or front office are clueless.  This guy just can’t play.  Will be OOF soon without dramatic improvement.

[Ralonzo]

18 hours ago, QCity said:

 

 

That doesn't quite work. Is it supposed to be "Wentz on a bentz" or "Wench on a bench"?

 

Ah well. Everybody Hurts.

[Jobot]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Like what?  Not doubting, just curious...

 

He's a big outdoorsman/hunting from what I've heard.. And again, total speculation, it just doesn't make sense for him to regress this much. But if Football were his top priority, this situation wouldn't exist IMO.

[ndirish1978]

He was a decent QB before, now he has the yips. Hope he can figure it out, but he's probably done.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, Jobot said:

He's a big outdoorsman/hunting from what I've heard.. And again, total speculation, it just doesn't make sense for him to regress this much. But if Football were his top priority, this situation wouldn't exist IMO.

 

Yeah, I dunno.  For some QB, there seem to be huge differences in how they perform for some coaches than for others. 

Bradford was one.  Foles is another.   Fitzpatrick would be an example, I think.

Maybe Wentz is a 3rd. 

 

As you say, it's probably partly a matter of his input/effort as well - even if he's putting in a huge effort, only the right practice makes perfect.

 

[H2o]

1 hour ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

They can move him, if it's a trade; Indy would have to pick up a lot of money. 

Even in a trade scenario the dead cap hit would be slapped upon the team who gave him the signing bonus originally. They can't move him and their cap situation is already shaping up bad for next year as it is. 

[BuffaloRebound]

1 hour ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

They can move him, if it's a trade; Indy would have to pick up a lot of money. 

Would have to be a Brock Osweiler deal.  Philly gonna have to send probably 1st or 2nd rounder with Wentz for somebody to pick up his contract.