Still haven’t seen Allen’s potential

[Victory Formation]

And he’s been great all year! On pace for 35 TDs and 11 INTs 3:1 ratio and 4,500 yards.. He still gets confused by certain packages but all in all his progress this year has been great! He’s in his 3rd year and that’s dog years for a QB.. The best is yet to come.. imagine him 4 or 5 years from now.. Best arm in the NFL and the game has really slowed down for him mentally.. Not even close to his prime yet... Wait till he masters the mental side of football and we’re likely looking at a Championship by the end of his time here.. Most gifted QB in the NFL and he still has yet to put it all together.. 

[Ramza86]

I think you might be right. 

 

As long as breaking down the game gets easier for him in the next few years hell be able to exceed himself.

 

Itll be easier for him to adjust plays, get the ball in the right place and manipulate defenses any way he wants.

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, Ramza86 said:

I think you might be right. 

 

As long as breaking down the game gets easier for him in the next few years hell be able to exceed himself.

 

Itll be easier for him to adjust plays, get the ball in the right place and manipulate defenses any way he wants.

Many of us were waiting for a 300-400yd game... Me? I’m waiting for a 5,000 yard season.

[Protocal69]

Just the fact in order to slow him down takes exotic defensive schemes shows the process. I was screaming at the screen to get the ball to Beasley when the Cards were blitzing away. Best believe that Allen will learn how to further breakdown that type of defense faster

[MAJBobby]

I do think he is still growing, I also think the game still hasn't fully slowed down.  but his development is very encouraging.

[BuffaloRebound]

He’ll be that much better when he’s not the best RB on our team too.  

[Victory Formation]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

He’ll be that much better when he’s not the best RB on our team too.  

As long as he slides, I don’t care if he runs..

[wvbillsfan]

If he could get a running game it would only help. He’s made this huge leap in year 3 with a patchwork oline and no consistency from his rbs or oline. 
We are winning games with him throwing 40 plus times a game. That was not supposed to be the formula with Josh Allen. 
 

Ive never seen a qb improve as much as he has. And the ceiling keeps getting pushed higher 

[PromoTheRobot]

I think we are getting carried away with our expectations. Josh is already awesome. But no QB is perfect.  I'm not sure how much better you can realistically think he can become. There comes a point where other players have to step up, in particular O-line especially in run blocking.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

Just the fact in order to slow him down takes exotic defensive schemes shows the process. I was screaming at the screen to get the ball to Beasley when the Cards were blitzing away. Best believe that Allen will learn how to further breakdown that type of defense faster

 

Oh yeah - they were doing double a pressure and moving guys around.  His first INT was a bad decision, 2nd was probably a bad throw (held the ball a bit too).  

 

Hit on some screens, missed on others.  

[LABILLBACKER]

Give this kid actual TE's and Guards and he would really be lethal. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Am I the only one who hates all the called run plays and occasional pass play to Josh?  We are asking him to do too much.  Find a real TE and and a real running game and stop asking Josh to be Super Man.  This is not a long term recipe for success.  

[BigBuff423]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Give this kid actual TE's and Guards and he would really be lethal. 

 

I think that's what we saw the first four games of the season but then injuries and COVID started happening. For one of the games nearly the entire TE room was out due to COVID, by luck Kroft's baby was born and for others, Ford, Morse, Feliciano all have been injured at different points of the year. The Bills have not YET had their entire Offensive line on the field, with those first four games the closest with just Feliciano missing. 

[BillsFanSD]

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think we are getting carried away with our expectations. Josh is already awesome. But no QB is perfect.  I'm not sure how much better you can realistically think he can become. There comes a point where other players have to step up, in particular O-line especially in run blocking.

I agree.  Allen has made massive, gigantic strides since entering the league, and I'll be happy to have him quarterbacking our team for the next decade.  There's still some room for growth, but we're looking at changes on the margin compared to the development we've seen during his first three years.

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

 

I can live with that because if he has the ball late in the 4th quarter down a score I am not sure I would want anyone else in the NFL with the ball...dude shows over and over again he is ultra-clutch and should have had his 12th 4th quarter comeback and another game winning drive in his young career yesterday...

 

I am not sure how many other QB's could have thrown that ball like a laser to Diggs off his back foot the way he did and put it in a perfect location where only his guy could make a play, but I am pretty sure you wouldn't need all the fingers on a single hand to count them. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by matter2003

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I think he peaks within the next 2-3 years. 

Bills win SB in 2021. 

[Matt_In_NH]

21 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

If he could get a running game it would only help. He’s made this huge leap in year 3 with a patchwork oline and no consistency from his rbs or oline. 
We are winning games with him throwing 40 plus times a game. That was not supposed to be the formula with Josh Allen. 
 

Ive never seen a qb improve as much as he has. And the ceiling keeps getting pushed higher 

Part of the issue with the running game though might be personnel, they run so much 10 so it is hard for 4 WR's to block.  But yesterday it seemed the OL was just getting beat on run plays.

[Big Turk]

Just now, mattynh said:

Part of the issue with the running game though might be personnel, they run so much 10 so it is hard for 4 WR's to block.  But yesterday it seemed the OL was just getting beat on run plays.

 

They seem to get beat a lot on run plays...

[SCBills]

Just put a competent defense out there and invest, invest, invest in the Offense.  

 

Sky is the limit for Allen.  

 

My biggest concern this year is John Brown.  When healthy, we have an elite WR unit.  When he's not healthy, we are far, far less dynamic.  I'm firmly in the camp of drafting a speed WR in the first round, even though I doubt we will.

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

 

Yea, totally. I haven't seen one ounce of evidence that Josh Allen has the potential for growth. And nobody ever gets better at anything in life past the age of 24. In fact, it's pretty much downhill from here on out. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Motorin'

[Matt_In_NH]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

They seem to get beat a lot on run plays...

But not against NE.  They can do it.  

[BarleyNY]

17 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

I think we are very close to Allen being a finished product.  He has two hurdles to clear in order to become an elite, franchise QB IMO.  And that’s not to complain as I think he is in the cusp. IMO they are:

 

1) The rate of substantial mistakes has to drop.  I do not ever expect him or anyone else to be perfect and he’s improved dramatically as a QB, but in the Arizona game he had 5 turnover worthy plays by my count.  The two picks were on him as were the two passes that hit Peterson but weren’t intercepted.  Plus the 3rd and 10 throw for -5 yards to Singletary as he was getting thrown down.  It was into a group of defenders without full control.  I love the determination to make a play, but he’s got to be smarter than that.

Let me take a moment to say that I love what I’m seeing from him on most plays.  Other than those 5 plays he was everything you’d want from your starting QB.  He just has to get those plays down to 2 a game rather than 5.  I think that comes with experience.

 

2) In the playoffs this year, when the pressure mounts, he has to perform better than what we saw from him post fumble in the Houston game.  You could tell that he had not been in a game that big before and that the pressure got to him.  I think it was a learning experience for him and that, judging by how well he has performed late in every other close game this year and last year, that he’ll be fine.  But it’s still a hurdle he has to clear.

 

That might sound more critical of Allen that I actually am of him.  I’ve seen great growth from him and I think he is on the cusp of being elite.  Just a couple more hurdles.

[Casey D]

20 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

You have a real knack at being consistently annoying and puerile.

[msw2112]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think we are getting carried away with our expectations. Josh is already awesome. But no QB is perfect.  I'm not sure how much better you can realistically think he can become. There comes a point where other players have to step up, in particular O-line especially in run blocking.

 

People need to be realistic.  Hall of Famers like Aaron Rodgers throw an occasional interception and have an occasional bad game.  Russell Wilson just had his 2nd bad game in a row.  Is he a mediocre QB?  Allen, too, will throw an occasional interception and have an occasional bad game.  Yesterday, he didn't have a terrible game.  He made some great plays, and made a couple of mistakes.  He also, as noted in this thread, had zero run game support.  He still made enough plays to win a road game against a good opponent.  He got the Bills into a 4 point lead with 31 seconds to go, making an incredible TD throw to get them there.  The Bills got beat on a freak play by two great athletes.  If they run that play 10 times, it fails 9.  It's hard to take the loss, but at some point you have to take your hat off to Murray and Hopkins, who made a great play.

[Motorin']

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 He just has to get those plays down to 2 a game rather than 5.  I think that comes with experience.

 

Not possible, QB's are determined by their stats (says people who have never learned from experience). 

Just now, msw2112 said:

 

People need to be realistic.  Hall of Famers like Aaron Rodgers throw an occasional interception and have an occasional bad game.  Russell Wilson just had his 2nd bad game in a row.  Is he a mediocre QB?  Allen, too, will throw an occasional interception and have an occasional bad game.  Yesterday, he didn't have a terrible game.  He made some great plays, and made a couple of mistakes.  He also, as noted in this thread, had zero run game support.  He still made enough plays to win a road game against a good opponent.  He got the Bills into a 4 point lead with 31 seconds to go, making an incredible TD throw to get them there.  The Bills got beat on a freak play by two great athletes.  If they run that play 10 times, it fails 9.  It's hard to take the loss, but at some point you have to take your hat off to Murray and Hopkins, who made a great play.

 

Rodgers has horrible games every season. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I think we are very close to Allen being a finished product.  He has two hurdles to clear in order to become an elite, franchise QB IMO.  And that’s not to complain as I think he is in the cusp. IMO they are:

 

1) The rate of substantial mistakes has to drop.  I do not ever expect him or anyone else to be perfect and he’s improved dramatically as a QB, but in the Arizona game he had 5 turnover worthy plays by my count.  The two picks were on him as were the two passes that hit Peterson but weren’t intercepted.  Plus the 3rd and 10 throw for -5 yards to Singletary as he was getting thrown down.  It was into a group of defenders without full control.  I love the determination to make a play, but he’s got to be smarter than that.

Let me take a moment to say that I love what I’m seeing from him on most plays.  Other than those 5 plays he was everything you’d want from your starting QB.  He just has to get those plays down to 2 a game rather than 5.  I think that comes with experience.

 

2) In the playoffs this year, when the pressure mounts, he has to perform better than what we saw from him post fumble in the Houston game.  You could tell that he had not been in a game that big before and that the pressure got to him.  I think it was a learning experience for him and that, judging by how well he has performed late in every other close game this year and last year, that he’ll be fine.  But it’s still a hurdle he has to clear.

 

That might sound more critical of Allen that I actually am of him.  I’ve seen great growth from him and I think he is on the cusp of being elite.  Just a couple more hurdles.

 

Agreed.  

 

As much as it set us up for the most heart breaking loss in recent memory, the fact he led us down the field for the potential game winning TD is huge moving forward. 

 

He had just thrown some picks and when they flashed to him on the sideline, he had that glazed over/staring off into the distance look... at least we know he can shake that off, because when i saw him just staring i said out loud "yup, this game is over".

[DCofNC]

He’s made big strides and I sure hope he can eliminate the mental mistakes more.  The physical talent is there.   Yesterday should have been a blow out, but he kept the Cards in it and it bit us.   As good as he was last week, he had just as bad of mental game this week.  The comeback drive was great, too bad it was necessary.

[Patrick Duffy]

52 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

And he’s been great all year! On pace for 35 TDs and 11 INTs 3:1 ratio and 4,500 yards.. He still gets confused by certain packages but all in all his progress this year has been great! He’s in his 3rd year and that’s dog years for a QB.. The best is yet to come.. imagine him 4 or 5 years from now.. Best arm in the NFL and the game has really slowed down for him mentally.. Not even close to his prime yet... Wait till he masters the mental side of football and we’re likely looking at a Championship by the end of his time here.. Most gifted QB in the NFL and he still has yet to put it all together.. 

I definitely think Josh will get himself and the Bills a Super Bowl ring at some point. Hell, I think they have a shot this year, but in any event It's definitely coming imo. And it will be Oh So Sweet!

Edited November 16, 2020 by Patrick_Duffy

[TheElectricCompany]

The "ceiling" is really tough to call out, I think he's establishing the floor right now.

If it's 4000 total yards and 30+ TDs, life is good for years to come.

[njbuff]

Allen has put his team on his back and basically won the game yesterday against a good team.

 

Other than the WR position, the rest of the ENTIRE team owes Allen an apology and thank him for carrying this team.

 

It’s John Elway 2.0 in that regard 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

And he’s been great all year! On pace for 35 TDs and 11 INTs 3:1 ratio and 4,500 yards.. He still gets confused by certain packages but all in all his progress this year has been great! He’s in his 3rd year and that’s dog years for a QB.. The best is yet to come.. imagine him 4 or 5 years from now.. Best arm in the NFL and the game has really slowed down for him mentally.. Not even close to his prime yet... Wait till he masters the mental side of football and we’re likely looking at a Championship by the end of his time here.. Most gifted QB in the NFL and he still has yet to put it all together.. 

 

 

I am a huge fan of Allen.

 

But he's not the most gifted QB in the NFL.

 

He has the biggest arm and his skillset is unique..........but he has well below average natural touch throwing the football for a starting NFL QB..............he's one of the worst at it, really..............he still LABORS to drop the ball into the bucket on deep passes and can't feather the ball in like you want on plays like screens and those are where things most often go to hell for him.

 

He will have to develop that skill.........it's not innate to him.

 

But I feel like he will because he is going to work on it until he is good at it.

 

I know I bang the DK Metcalf drum around here plenty but that type of skillset........the ability to get deep and then extend and turn into a massive target for innacurate throws.........is probably the greatest gift this organization could give to him at this point.      

[nucci]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

Many of us were waiting for a 300-400yd game... Me? I’m waiting for a 5,000 yard season.

I'm waiting for a playoff win

[Victory Formation]

17 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

I don’t think he’s arrived yet.. yes, he looks good, real good but he hasn’t developed to the point where Brady, Manning and Brees were at during certain points in their careers where you just knew that they were going to close the game out.. Josh Allen’s Bills don’t have that vibe yet but I think they’ll get there.. The truly dominant QBs have that presence, going to take more experience for Allen to get there..

[Billsfanatixs]

46 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I think he peaks within the next 2-3 years. 

Bills win SB in 2021. 

Wouldn't that be the this current season? I'm in let's go Buffalo!

[GoBills808]

Not a lot of guys go straight after Patrick Peterson for the game winning TD w under a minute left

 

Be thankful we have Allen and Diggs, it won't get the publicity the fluke Hail Mary did for obvious reasons but that was a monster play

[dave mcbride]

47 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Part of the issue with the running game though might be personnel, they run so much 10 so it is hard for 4 WR's to block.  But yesterday it seemed the OL was just getting beat on run plays.

I think they have a line set up to pass block. It's almost like it's a college line out there in from the Big 12. They are pretty good at pass blocking (important!), but just compare them to SF's, Baltimore's, or NE's line when they're healthy. Feliciano is a good run blocker, to be sure. But the rest ... 

[Solomon Grundy]

38 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Just put a competent defense out there and invest, invest, invest in the Offense.  

 

Sky is the limit for Allen.  

 

My biggest concern this year is John Brown.  When healthy, we have an elite WR unit.  When he's not healthy, we are far, far less dynamic.  I'm firmly in the camp of drafting a speed WR in the first round, even though I doubt we will.

I wholeheartedly agree!! Although I think their 1st round pick should be on Nick Bolton LB from Missouri, I think Reggie Roberson Jr SMU could be had in the 3rd maybe 4th, only because he's coming off of injury, if Bills make moves to acquire a 4th rounder. I know it's early for draft, but those guys as well as Charlie Kolar TE, Patrick Jones EDGE and Paris Ford S are on my Bills wish list

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

And he’s been great all year! On pace for 35 TDs and 11 INTs 3:1 ratio and 4,500 yards.. He still gets confused by certain packages but all in all his progress this year has been great! He’s in his 3rd year and that’s dog years for a QB.. The best is yet to come.. imagine him 4 or 5 years from now.. Best arm in the NFL and the game has really slowed down for him mentally.. Not even close to his prime yet... Wait till he masters the mental side of football and we’re likely looking at a Championship by the end of his time here.. Most gifted QB in the NFL and he still has yet to put it all together.. 

If the running game can improve we can actually justify running play action so much. When you have a team like the 49ers and run play action it will probably work. When you have a team like the Bills, play action will be less effective or not work at all. If the running game can improve it would make Allens job so much easier. The problem is that I don't think the run game will improve unless Moss is the full time starter and Singletary just spells him. 

[H2o]

1 hour ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

[Freak-O]

1 hour ago, High Football IQ said:

 

Unfortunately I think this is the real Josh Allen and pretty much a finished product.

 

It's not necessarily a bad thing but the wild inconsistency is probably going to continue with him looking like a league MVP one weak and a mess the next.

 

And in hindsight he's a major reason this team lost yesterday despite the late 4th quarter heroics which should have won the game in most circumstances.

 

From year one to year two he got better. From year two to year three he got better. He's still very young, but of course he won't get any better during the next ten, fifteen years. Everyone peaks at 24, everybody knows that.