I really hope Mitch Morse retires.

[Seasons1992]

44 minutes ago, Simon said:

That took the sails right out of my wind. I don't think I said 10 words the rest of the game.

I think it also affected the rest of the Bills offense the remainder of the 1st half.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/sports/football/15brain.html

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/sports/football/15brain.html

 

'Zactly...

[Doc]

17 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Is there video of the play? They didn't show the re play during the game. Just curious to see it

 

I recorded it on my phone but it's too large to attach.  As I said, a Cheaters player hit Morse helmet to helmet.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

How long did it take him to be cleared last time?  It felt like absolutely forever.  While it would hurt the Bills if he were to hang em up at this point he needs to think about the next 50 years of his life.  Thankfully mongo came back and can fill in at center for us.

Last time it was the off-season and it was pretty clear (to me) that the Bills were just stashing him until the beginning of the season. He was at the final stage of the protocol for like weeks.

 

No use in speculating. He might be back tomorrow or it might be the rest of the year. But he didn't seem too hurt on the field, at least.

[ALLEN1QB]

39 minutes ago, Muppy said:

the lack of replays during this game was super frustrating. Several penalty calls weren't replayed and also Diggs was begging for a PI call that never was shown nor called either.

They were to busy showing stats about how many times the Patriots beat Buffalo!

[Jerome007]

With concussions you never know. He might fully OK 3 days from now... or 3 months from now. Depends not only in his own history,. but what kind of hit, what is affected, etc. It seems "rotational hits" often cause more severe ones. We'll see.

 

Of course it ain't good news in any shape or form, but we can't compare to the past. In other eras - and not that far away - he would have just gone out a few plays "to shake the cobwebs off" and gone back in. That's where those old players who suffer probably aggravated their situations. We thankfully know a lot more now.

 

 

[BillnutinHouston]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I recorded it on my phone but it's too large to attach.  As I said, a Cheaters player hit Morse helmet to helmet.

 

Since it came on the first offensive play, my immediate thought was that that might have been scripted by Belichick. 

 

I'm not making a claim, just stating what my mind went to.

 

 

 

[Doc]

Just now, BillnutinHouston said:

Since it came on the first offensive play, my immediate thought was that that might have been scripted by Belichick. 

 

I'm not making a claim, just stating what my mind went to.

 

Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

We know more about concussions now, and what know is that like any injury a concussion takes time to heal. Mitch likely is going to need at least a month to heal his head. I wouldn't be shocked if he decides to, hang it up after 2020. Maybe because of his contract he tries to play one more year. 

 

Hoping just for his health this is a "mild" concussion and they put him on the bench for a few weeks and he is good to go. 

At least a month to heal?  What are you basing this on?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

How long did it take him to be cleared last time?  It felt like absolutely forever.  While it would hurt the Bills if he were to hang em up at this point he needs to think about the next 50 years of his life.  Thankfully mongo came back and can fill in at center for us.

His last concussion with the Bills was in the  preseason and they just kept him out until week 1.  Conveniently he remained in the protocol until the Wednesday before week 1.

[simpleman]

9 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

I honestly don't think they showed one.  I do remember Allen waving trainers over immediately so there must have been some ugly impact.

It was difficult to see a lot on the CBS broadcast. One of the worst ever. Minimal repays. Not showing the plays on called penalties or possible questionable calls like sideline plays and catches. Did CBS sign up for the super economy package with less cameras or something?  Does the number of cameras covering a game vary just like the quality of the broadcast crew covering the game, depending on how important the network feels the game is to the  nationwide audience? Felt like I was watching the game through a slit in the fence from such poor game coverage.

Edited November 2, 2020 by simpleman

[GunnerBill]

As someone whose own father has difficulties in his early 60s attributed to sports related concussions and a lifetime of heading soccer balls I sincerely advise Mitch to think very long and very hard about what is best for him and his family. I will leave it at that.

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, Muppy said:

the lack of replays during this game was super frustrating. Several penalty calls weren't replayed and also Diggs was begging for a PI call that never was shown nor called either.

THANK YOU for this post! I was immediately convinced Diggs was interfered with on the pick as I saw the DB slam his hand into Diggs shoulder with the ball leaving Allen’s hand. It forced Diggs to alter his route too late. He’s stated it was his ‘fault’ for heading the wrong way, but he was forced to. No flag, no replay, no challenge. 

Edit; well they did re-spot the ball back near the 50 after the tv TO. Not sure if replay called this or another ref saw it.

[CaptnCoke11]

It’s hard to imagine we’ll see Morse play again 

[Gugny]

14 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

It's Mitch's 5th concussion (that we know of).  I'll never forget reading about the last few years of legendary Steeler C Mike Webster's life and it's a fate that no person should go through.  Maybe at this point it will barely make a difference but who knows if walking away right now will be the difference between Mitch living until he's 50 and living until he's 70.

 

 

I agree with you.  There's more to life than football.  He's made enough money to be able to retire and live comfortably .. and he should.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I’m hoping that he is healthy enough to play out the season. He is one of the best centers in the NFL when healthy. I’m hoping he can come back at 100% after the bye. 

[papazoid]

buyer beware on players with a history of concussions.....best to avoid them....harsh i know

[billsfan89]

12 hours ago, JohnNord said:

At least a month to heal?  What are you basing this on?

 

Basing it on his history of concussions and the fact that the team likely would want to be extra cautious with him. Considering the timing of the bye week sitting Mitch out the next two weeks would give him nearly a month while only missing 2 games. Now granted this is without knowing the severity of the concussion. A mild concussion might only require a week off? I also am basing this off of the concussion he got last year in camp where they seemed to shut him down for a month. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by billsfan89

[MAJBobby]

I will say this, if the Bills go into this draft coming up and do not target a young Center or get another young center in UFA, it is Criminal.  The 5th concussion has to get the Bills thinking about life after Morse (as there was talk about him retiring in KC as well, now his 5th I am sure has him and his family discussing it again).

 

And they have an easy out after this year.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mitch-morse-16773/#:~:text=Mitch Morse signed a 4,average annual salary of %2411%2C125%2C000.

Edited November 2, 2020 by MAJBobby

[Matt_In_NH]

21 hours ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Did not see the replay what exactly happened?

They did not show replays of penalties/close calls either.  The broadcast was not that great.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Hey, here’s a weird idea.  Maybe he wears a kazoo helmet cushion, even though many talking heads say nowadays it did nothing even though over the span of years wearing it Kelso had only one concussion.

 

”no-no, it’s worse and more dangerous.”

 

really, how come the guy had something like 8 career concussions without it and only one more for the rest of his career?

 

”ah, science blah-blah-blah, you wouldn’t understand blah-blah-blah...move along.  Nothing to see here.  These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.”

 

😒

Edited November 2, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[Victory Formation]

15 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Hey, here’s a weird idea.  Maybe he wears a kazoo helmet cushion, even though many talking heads say nowadays it did nothing even though over the span of years wearing it Kelso had only one concussion.

 

”no-no, it’s worse and more dangerous.”

 

really, how come the guy had something like 8 career concussions without it and only one more for the rest of his career?

 

”ah, science blah-blah-blah, you wouldn’t understand blah-blah-blah...move along.  Nothing to see here.  These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.”

 

😒

Is the helmet what’s causing the concussions to begin with? Would people head butt each other with no helmet on? Would people shoot at each other’s knees like a torpedo without a helmet on? Would Kevin Everett have paralyzed himself without a helmet or Ryan Shazier? Think there’d be fewer injuries had players no helmet at all.. They use it like a weapon.. very dangerous..

[frostbitmic]

He looked woozy as he was helped off the field yesterday, not a good sign.

 

I was concussed a year ago and I still wake up dizzy every once in a while, not fun.

[dollars 2 donuts]

46 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Is the helmet what’s causing the concussions to begin with? Would people head butt each other with no helmet on? Would people shoot at each other’s knees like a torpedo without a helmet on? Would Kevin Everett have paralyzed himself without a helmet or Ryan Shazier? Think there’d be fewer injuries had players no helmet at all.. They use it like a weapon.. very dangerous..

Solid, VF.

 

still I think it wouldn’t hurt (no pun intended).  Additionally (and so gladly) the league seems to get better each year with that and they need to keep going in that direction.  
 

side note, in the hours after the Everett injury, of which I was in attendance, I asked myself if I could ever go back to watching and enjoying this game when it could take this young man’s legs, or worse, his life.  I was so relieved when things worked out.

 

then cte...

 

Many said rules changes would wussify the league.  No it hadn’t and too bad if it does. Go back to old time wrap up football, I’d still love it.

[TBBills]

I think the consensus is we will be needing a new center next year.

[QCity]

He means more to the offense than most fans realize, not a player they could afford to lose. Switching centers is tough on young QBs. They have to be very careful with him.

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

He looked woozy as he was helped off the field yesterday, not a good sign.

 

I was concussed a year ago and I still wake up dizzy every once in a while, not fun.

Have you looked into a NUCCA chiropractor? Many times the longer-term effects can be related to upper cervical impingement...speaking from experience.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 11/1/2020 at 7:57 PM, Simon said:

I don't know that anybody has actually seen it yet.

Maybe somebody with the game recorded?

 

 

The Pats LB flew in and cracked Morse on the dome to blow up a combo block before it could unfold.  

 

It blows my mind that Pats players will do things like that for their defense........the Bills defense really struggles just to buy-in to tackling ball carriers.

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 11/1/2020 at 6:54 PM, ALLEN1QB said:

Did not see the replay what exactly happened?

 

On 11/1/2020 at 7:08 PM, Steptide said:

Is there video of the play? They didn't show the re play during the game. Just curious to see it

 

I was hoping someone better would post it but I was able to get some stills.

Play is a simple dive between center and RG dressed up with a bunch of motion.

Just after the handoff.  Morse is blocking DB Adrian Phillips (21).  Phillips appears to strike Morse helmet to helmet from the front, hard enough to visibly push his head back

Morse does not seem to be in any difficulty after it and sustains his block nicely.

Morse keeps him sealed off while Winters is handling DL Cowart (99).  Singletary hits the hole for the 3rd down conversion and a bit more.  On the other side of Morse, Mongo is handling Wise (91).

Cowart sheds Winters and tackles Motor.  Wise sheds Mongo as well to get in on the tackle.  At this point, I think Winters head may actually go into the side of Morse' helmet.  Not 100% sure.

 

Morse staggers back, appears unsteady, and then sinks to one knee and raises his right hand to his helmet.

 

Morse clearly got one, and maybe two, helmet blows during this play and I think it may be the second blow from the side that caused the problem - he was expecting to get hit from the front and braced for it, but not expecting the sideways blow.  But again, I'm not 100% sure on the sideways blow from Winters.  Some scientists regard blows one isn't expecting as more problematic than blows one is, and it's just after what appears to be the sideways contact that Morse staggers back and goes to a knee.

 

I checked Banged Up Bills blog and on twitter but he didn't have anything on this.

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 11/1/2020 at 7:29 PM, MJS said:

Last time it was the off-season and it was pretty clear (to me) that the Bills were just stashing him until the beginning of the season. He was at the final stage of the protocol for like weeks.

 

No use in speculating. He might be back tomorrow or it might be the rest of the year. But he didn't seem too hurt on the field, at least.

 

What advantage would the Bills gain from "stashing" their center and keeping him from building rappore with their young 2nd year QB?  There wasn't any stashing.  It took Morse that long to come back.

 

I thought it looked bad on the field.  Morse staggered back and sank to one knee and stayed there, apparently dazed.  The play is kind of going on - a herd of Patriots are shoving Motor backwards and clawing at the ball, but Morse is kneeling, holding the right side of his helmet with his right hand.

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What advantage would the Bills gain from "stashing" their center and keeping him from building rappore with their young 2nd year QB?  There wasn't any stashing.  It took Morse that long to come back.

 

I thought it looked bad on the field.  Morse staggered back and sank to one knee and stayed there, apparently dazed.  The play is kind of going on - a herd of Patriots are shoving Motor backwards and clawing at the ball, but Morse is kneeling, holding the right side of his helmet with his right hand.

I disagree. Sorry. The advantage is avoiding all risk and ensuring he is ready for week 1.

 

The talk is that Morse had the injury a couple plays earlier but stayed out there until he went to his knee. I haven't watched it myself, but on OBL they speculated about that because he took a glancing blow to the side of the helmet on one of the first plays.

[machine gun kelly]

On 11/1/2020 at 7:13 PM, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

It's Mitch's 5th concussion (that we know of).  I'll never forget reading about the last few years of legendary Steeler C Mike Webster's life and it's a fate that no person should go through.  Maybe at this point it will barely make a difference but who knows if walking away right now will be the difference between Mitch living until he's 50 and living until he's 70.

 

Sage, well put.  I remember my oldest son came to me after his sophomore Year in college.  I was really proud of him as he had a full ride in a division 1 college in lax.  He had his 4th concussion and asked me what he should do.  I responded like I typically do, and asked him the question, what do you think you should do?  He said, should I retire?  It’s you’re decision, but have you done you’re hw. On concussions?  So, you think I should retire.  ——-, this is you’re decision.  He told me, thanks dad for not telling me what to do.  I answered, you knew the answer, i was just there to let you talk it out.

 

Of course, I wanted him to quit, but it had to be his call.  I’m not trying to bore you guys with this vignette,just it’s Mitch’s choice.  I hope he decides what you’re suggesting Sage.  Morse seems like a good guy, and football is not worth it.  He’s made more than enough $, so why?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, MJS said:

I disagree. Sorry. The advantage is avoiding all risk and ensuring he is ready for week 1.

 

The talk is that Morse had the injury a couple plays earlier but stayed out there until he went to his knee. I haven't watched it myself, but on OBL they speculated about that because he took a glancing blow to the side of the helmet on one of the first plays.

 

It's possible.  On the first play, it appears that Wise throws Morse into Singletary's path and Singletary's legs may hit him in the helmet as he strives for yards.  It's hard to see exactly what happens but Morse definitely goes head first into Singletary's path and a bunch of people are scrambling around on top of his head.

 

It's also possible that one blow didn't cause immediate effects but the second blows were cumulative.

 

In any event, Morse seems to be on his feet and fully functional until Winters goes sideways into him helmet-first 2 plays later, then it's "bang-bang" - he staggers back and goes to a knee and doesn't get up.

[BobbyC81]

On 11/1/2020 at 4:16 PM, mattynh said:

A lot of speculation here. There has been a lot of changes to equipment and protocols since the 70’s.   Lots of guys get lots of concussions and are not Webster.   But there are risks for all players not just Morse.    If you feel this way we might as well root to end the nfl for good.   

 
Speaking of equipment, does a football helmet lose some effectiveness when the player slams it on the ground?  You see so many times a player is pissed about something and slams his helmet on the ground or on something. Then puts his helmet back on and goes back on the field.    Brady did it today, slamming his on the bench.  

[HOUSE]

When Morse was injured I turn the game off...

 

Did we win ?

[T master]

Give him a Kelso helmet that seemed to help him . Plus those guys are hit every down they are on the field so you might think if the NFL is trying to do away with concussions they might make all line man where something like that .

[Doc]

Curious to see if Bates gets the starting reps at C or Feliciano.  Again I'd rather have Feliciano and Bates out there, but if Boettger played well like PFF says he did, put him at LG again and put Feliciano back at RG.

[thebandit27]

Not that it’s a huge deal, and it certainly shouldn’t affect his decision, but if he has to retire due to injury, that would presumably activate another $1.3M in guaranteed salary for 2021 (that amount is guaranteed for injury only), which means that his dead money hit would increase from $5.5M to $6.8M. The team would still save ~$3.5M off the current hit.

 

The OL situation will be very interesting moving into 2021. Of the current starters, only Dawkins, Ford, and Morse are under contract. Winters is the only backup returning. I believe Bates is a RFA. Nsekhe, Mongo, and Williams are UFAs. Not good considering that the cap is going to drop.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

7 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Sage, well put.  I remember my oldest son came to me after his sophomore Year in college.  I was really proud of him as he had a full ride in a division 1 college in lax.  He had his 4th concussion and asked me what he should do.  I responded like I typically do, and asked him the question, what do you think you should do?  He said, should I retire?  It’s you’re decision, but have you done you’re hw. On concussions?  So, you think I should retire.  ——-, this is you’re decision.  He told me, thanks dad for not telling me what to do.  I answered, you knew the answer, i was just there to let you talk it out.

 

Of course, I wanted him to quit, but it had to be his call.  I’m not trying to bore you guys with this vignette,just it’s Mitch’s choice.  I hope he decides what you’re suggesting Sage.  Morse seems like a good guy, and football is not worth it.  He’s made more than enough $, so why?

 

Some quality parenting right there.

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

When Morse was injured I turn the game off...

 

Did we win ?

 

Depends who you ask.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Video of the play showing the one, possibly two helmet hits:

 

 

 

 

Banged up on the topic:

https://bangedupbills.com/2020/11/03/2020-week-8-bills-injury-review-patriots/

 

It is impossible to identify how long he will take to return. When he suffered his concussion last year, the team knew that he could not talk to the media while in protocol and they also took their time to ensure he was fully healthy before returning to play. They were also not in a rush to have the independent neurological consult for clearance as it was the preseason. This may have influenced the length of time he was in the protocol.

It would be reasonable to assume he could return quicker than last time, but impossible to say. The only thing we can go off of is his levels of participation at practice which will be watched closely. Hopefully, he is able to return in a quick but safe manner. Based on his history, I don’t see a scenario where he plays in Week 9. I also don’t envision a scenario where it takes him another 6 weeks to return as in the case with former Bills QB Derek Anderson, but it can’t be ruled out either. We simply need more information before determining return to play.

 

It kind of sounds like he tends to agree with @MJS that the Bills took their time about clearing him last year.