Lorax discusses Tremaine Edmunds

[Logic]

Imagine thinking you know more about linebacker play and what's best for Edmunds and this defense than Sean McDermott, Leslie Frazier, and Lorenzo Alexander.

The arrogance/silliness of some of the people on this forum, man...

[WideNine]

Playing down hill....

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by WideNine

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

This is a completely out of left field take.... the “hate” has nothing to do with his draft spot. If anything the constant shouting down from fans to other fans criticizing his play is due to his draft spot. 

What? I don’t understand what you are trying to say. 

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

This is getting close to midway through his 3rd season, hardly day one. His play has been very poor compared to last season, it's impossible to deny that.

He has been hurt with a shoulder injury. Main part of the body someone tackles with and engages blockers. I was referring to the fact that since day one people have been critical of him. 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would strongly encourage you and everyone else to watch the cover1 piece @BurpleBull posted above and read @Buffalo716 comments on our scheme predictibility in the Frazier's Gotta Be Fired thread which actually has a bunch of decent football discussion despite the crap title.

 

There just may be a case to be made for the role of predictable play calling in Edwards play dropping off.

 

It should also be noted the significant turnover on the DL and at LB (Lorax). 

 

Point is with poor results, it can be hard to isolate why the results are poor.

I've mentioned in other posts the significant turnover on the defense. But the eyes don't lie, it's not like everyone on this site isn't seeing the same thing.  We all see him not shedding blocks, not in position... not making plays.

 

And you know it's Edmunds, not Edwards, right?

5 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

What? I don’t understand what you are trying to say. 

He has been hurt with a shoulder injury. Main part of the body someone tackles with and engages blockers. I was referring to the fact that since day one people have been critical of him. 

Do we know for a fact his shoulder is hindering his performance? If so, that certainly is significant, let's see what happens the next few weeks.

[Penfield45]

Edmunds just needs to switch positions, he will never make it as a MLB. 

 

he is the prototypical 3-4 edge rusher. 

[Punching Bag]

Just use orginial article not tweet

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2020/10/tremaine-edmunds-struggling-through-shoulder-injury-bills-dc-lorenzo-alexander-urge-fans-to-have-patience.html

[HappyDays]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He actually did a decent job on his run fits on Thursday. He was kinda selling out for the run though and that may have been the gameplan but it hurt us in the play action game. And that is what killed us Tuesday. 

 

I don't think they knew AJ Brown would be active until gameday. My guess is they game planned under the assumption Tennessee would be down their top 3 WRs. So they sold out to stop the run and didn't prepare for him.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

If there isn’t a fundamental difference Milano is by far the better player. That actually plays into what people are claiming. 

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Whoever this is analyzing for Cover1 (Erik?) seems to concur with @Buffalo716 comments about the Bills having become too predictable in what plays/coverages they are using for the same down and distance.

 

 

Maybe because of the injuries to the LB position and the new defensive front that hasn't jelled yet? 

 

Keep it simple and try to play fast until continuity builds? 

 

It seems from what I've been reading and watching that may be the case.  Either way it better get fixed ASAP, this schedule does not get easier. 

 

 

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

I've mentioned in other posts the significant turnover on the defense. But the eyes don't lie, it's not like everyone on this site isn't seeing the same thing.  We all see him not shedding blocks, not in position... not making plays.

 

And you know it's Edmunds, not Edwards, right?

Do we know for a fact his shoulder is hindering his performance? If so, that certainly is significant, let's see what happens the next few weeks.

I just watched the break down of film that was suggested, and I suggest it too.  

 

The eyes can be deceiving. 

 

This Dline better get it together. Frazier wasn't kidding with the stuff he said in his press conference. 

[Virgil]

If he’s that hurt, he shouldn’t be playing.  Get better and then let me judge him as a potential bust 

[Coach Tuesday]

Can someone please explain to me why a shoulder injury seems to be affecting his foot speed?

 

I’m not even talking about instincts or hands or getting off of blocks - even when he reads the play quickly and correctly and is freed up to make the tackle, his sideline to sideline speed seems down from where it has been in the past.  He is getting straight up outrun by slower human beings.  I am flummoxed.  Does he have a lower body injury as well that we don’t know about?  If you told me he had a bum shoulder AND a bad knee or ankle, what I’ve been seeing would make more sense.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

19 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Can someone please explain to me why a shoulder injury seems to be affecting his foot speed?

 

I’m not even talking about instincts or hands or getting off of blocks - even when he reads the play quickly and correctly and is freed up to make the tackle, his sideline to sideline speed seems down from where it has been in the past.  He is getting straight up outrun by slower human beings.  I am flummoxed.  Does he have a lower body injury as well that we don’t know about?  If you told me he had a bum shoulder AND a bad knee or ankle, what I’ve been seeing would make more sense.

He got outrun by Derek f'ing Carr, something is not right.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Bills fans....hating on Edmunds because "he sucks," but loving on Ed Oiver who does NOTHING to impact games.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would strongly encourage you and everyone else to watch the cover1 piece @BurpleBull posted above and read @Buffalo716 comments on our scheme predictibility in the Frazier's Gotta Be Fired thread which actually has a bunch of decent football discussion despite the crap title.

 

There just may be a case to be made for the role of predictable play calling in Edwards play dropping off.

 

It should also be noted the significant turnover on the DL and at LB (Lorax). 

 

Point is with poor results, it can be hard to isolate why the results are poor.

Simms made similar comments in a game review a couple weeks ago, 'on 1st down the offense knows they're in cover 3. Against a 2x2 set, the offense knows they're in palms (coverage).'

 

It's up to McDermott to self scout, add wrinkles and break tendencies. We see offensive coaches forced to do this and grow from it, Sean McVay a good example.

[Coach Tuesday]

19 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Bills fans....hating on Edmunds because "he sucks," but loving on Ed Oiver who does NOTHING to impact games.

Crusade.  This thread is not about Oliver.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Crusade.  This thread is not about Oliver.

 

Don't care.

 

 

[HOUSE]

STOP RUNNING DOWNHILL

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by HOUSE

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

If he’s that hurt, he shouldn’t be playing.  Get better and then let me judge him as a potential bust 

 

 

That's not how most players think. If they can play and it won't hurt them permanently they want to play.

 

And in this case the coaches think that even a hurt Edmunds is better than his replacement, healthy. They're not concerned with helping fans judge things. And I don't think they're, even to the slightest degree, concerned with him being a potential bust.

 

He was very good last year. No reason to think that he won't be that good or better when healthy, though as always other things affect outcomes in extremely complex systems like these.

 

I don't know how many of you remember Ray Lewis' mid-career slump. He was pretty much the best in the league for seven or eight years, then suddenly he appeared pretty average for two or three years, then he was terrific again for pretty much the rest of his  career. And it was so weird and coincidental that when big Tony Siragusa was in front of him, he was sensational, when Siragusa retired he was average and when they drafted Ngata he was instantly terrific again. Even good LBs have a terrible time filling holes that contain OLs coming straight at them.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If that depiction bothers you then think of it more like Lorax just ran a play-action fake and a bunch of you are now left holding your ***** at the LOS.    Where he wants you.

 

Lorax is a pro.   He knows that a majority of the fan base can be neutralized with a little sales job.

 

When it comes to MLB play Lorax is telling you that he is "trying"...........but much like the RB position that it mirrors MLB is about what you "do"........and the reasons why some can't "do" are less quantifiable than just saying "the film says he's going in the right direction!".     

 

 

 

 

I love it when some internet dude explains how when an expert says something, because it disagrees with what the dude thinks, the expert must be saying the opposite of what he really means.

 

And it always ends up with the dude summing up by saying, roughly, "See? He's saying 'Yes,' which clearly means 'no,' and when you look at it in this way, the expert's total disagreement with me clearly shows how right I am."

 

It always says more about the internet dude than it does about the expert.

 

 

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's been pretty sheltered from criticism for two years.   But eventually when you don't produce fans will start to wonder why.  What bothers me more than his lack of production at MLB is that they have wasted his potential on the outside.   This guy should be coming off the edge and using his length to create turnovers.  

 

 

Yeah, when you don't produce, fans will wonder.

 

But for two years, Edmunds absolutely has produced. He's played MLB very well on a near-elite defense. He's played very very capably indeed.

 

Yeah he's had problems with the shoulder injury, no question. And if that continues on and on, questions should be asked. But there's no particular reason to think it will in fact continue.

 

God, the takes get awful here after bad games. All the "I know way better than McDermott" folks come out.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He actually did a decent job on his run fits on Thursday. He was kinda selling out for the run though and that may have been the gameplan but it hurt us in the play action game. And that is what killed us Tuesday. 

 

Part of the defensive gameplan seemed to be just that: Sell out for the run and dare Tannehill to beat us.

 

I tend to feel that what killed us was

1) putting the D in crap field positions 3x with a turnover on pass deflection (INT), a 40 yd punt return, and an INT.

2) 10 accepted penalties, 9 of them presnap.  Can't win easily when you gift the opponent 1st and 5, 3rd and 2 etc.

3) a couple of bad, busted plays on D analogous to INT.  Can't win easily when you let them convert 3rd and 10 or worse, 3rd and 20 or totally lose contain on a mobile QB

 

[YoloinOhio]

7 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Just use orginial article not tweet

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2020/10/tremaine-edmunds-struggling-through-shoulder-injury-bills-dc-lorenzo-alexander-urge-fans-to-have-patience.html

That is the article that I posted. The Lorax tweet is responding to it. 

[scribo]

Pretty sure we all know much more about playing linebacker than some Dr. Seuss character.

[ProcessTruster]

9 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

If the shoulder is causing defenses to consistently get easy points, why is he on the field?!?

Because the dropoff to anyone else is too severe.   He calls the defense as well , which is critical.   If he's ok from the waist down, he's on the field.   Bills super thin at LB.  If Milano and TE are both out, with Star opting out, they have trouble there.   When's the bye week again?  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I don't know what film the Loarx is looking at but all I see is a LB'er getter pushed backwards and out of position on way too many plays. He had one or two good plays in coverage but besides that he looked like paper mâché. Lorax doing a review of Edmunds performance feels like Nepotism

[atlbillsfan1975]

7 hours ago, klos63 said:

I've mentioned in other posts the significant turnover on the defense. But the eyes don't lie, it's not like everyone on this site isn't seeing the same thing.  We all see him not shedding blocks, not in position... not making plays.

 

And you know it's Edmunds, not Edwards, right?

Do we know for a fact his shoulder is hindering his performance? If so, that certainly is significant, let's see what happens the next few weeks.

I watched the way he tried to tackle Crowder (I believe) in the Jets game. I could see the impact and lack of being able wrap and elevate his arm. 
Edmunds is a player, it’s up to McDermott and Frazier to put him in a position to excel. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Part of the defensive gameplan seemed to be just that: Sell out for the run and dare Tannehill to beat us.

 

I tend to feel that what killed us was

1) putting the D in crap field positions 3x with a turnover on pass deflection (INT), a 40 yd punt return, and an INT.

2) 10 accepted penalties, 9 of them presnap.  Can't win easily when you gift the opponent 1st and 5, 3rd and 2 etc.

3) a couple of bad, busted plays on D analogous to INT.  Can't win easily when you let them convert 3rd and 10 or worse, 3rd and 20 or totally lose contain on a mobile QB

 

 

 

I agree, with one correction. It wasn't crap field position three times.

 

It was FOUR times.

 

1Q 13:29 - TEN drive start at BUF 16 (INT)

1Q 1:59 - TEN drive start at BUF 30 (PR)

3Q 3:05 - TEN drive start at BUF 12 (INT)

4Q 3:49 - TEN drive start at BUF 18 (Fum on KO)

 

28 points.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Thurman#1

[First Round Bust]

this defense misses the interior play, experience and space that Star has, makes it harder on the other DT (Oliver play has dipped as well) and Edmunds not going to make plays when the opponent offense is allowed to place a blocker squared-up on Edmunds as I am seeing at times

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

I agree, with one correction. It wasn't crap field position three times.

 

It was FOUR times.

 

1Q 13:29 - TEN drive start at BUF 16 (INT)

1Q 1:59 - TEN drive start at BUF 30 (PR)

3Q 3:05 - TEN drive start at BUF 12 (INT)

4Q 3:49 - TEN drive start at BUF 18 (Fum on KO)

 

28 points.

 

You're right.  Thought I'd corrected that.

 

IMO the PR was devastating: it was a 7-7 game at that point and Tenn then Buff had just exchanged punts.  So gift-wrapping a start for them on the Buff 30 that resulted in a TD and put them ahead was just crap.

[LabattBlue]

Star was in for only 46% of the defensive snaps last year.  I’m tired of hearing that his absence is why Edmunds sucks this year.  How is it that Edmunds “managed” without Star 54% of the time last season?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Back the Blue

[JustWinPlease]

Can we relax on this kid, please? I've seen lots of discussions about this kid, yet one thing hasn't been mentioned much.

He's still only 22 years old, he's probably younger than some 2020 draft picks...he's not even close to being in his prime yet.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I don't know what film the Loarx is looking at but all I see is a LB'er getter pushed backwards and out of position on way too many plays. He had one or two good plays in coverage but besides that he looked like paper mâché. Lorax doing a review of Edmunds performance feels like Nepotism

This! It’s been Edmunds problem from Day One and it’s not difficult to see or hard to understand. He’s tall and lanky. There’s no way he can take on an offensive lineman. He simply doesn’t have the leverage. So what does he need? First, he needs a space eater DT in front of him to occupy two linemen. Second he needs to be patient and stop trying to jump into holes where he’s ultimately a rag doll caught up in the wash. He can correct the second one. The first one is up to the Front Office to fix.

[Royale with Cheese]

Sal is on WGR and said that after watching film on Tuesdays game, he agrees with Lorax.  Sal thought Edmunds played well.  But has struggled all season and Tuesday's performance doesn't overlook his earlier games.

[KellyToTasker]

With few us having the ability to see the games in person, one thing that was apparent at the Titan’s game (in person, I went), was the constant rotation of the DL. It’s been mentioned a lot, affords flexibility, keeps the players fresh, etc. But does it?
 

It’s a Hockey line change every play. The D-Line doesn’t stop running. They play one down, run off the field, run back on, play a down, over and over. It reminded me of my younger track days.....Run the 3200, keep moving/jogging until the 1600, keep moving until the 800, etc. The entire track meet was constant running (hard and not hard). These are 300 pound guys that never stop when the Defense is on the field. They lose the feel of the game and do not seem very “fresh” as the game rolls on. 

[ganesh]

They should be really focused on why  Hughes, Jefferson, Murphy, Epenesa and Addison did a Disappearing Houdini act !!!

[RiotAct]

He’s all over the field, alright.

[DrDawkinstein]

13 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Playing downhill?....he lost me on that comment.  

 

He's definitely playing downhill. The problem is he has no brakes and is coming down that hill at a bad angle, so one stutter step and the ball carrier goes right past him.

 

The angles on him missed tackles are infuriating.

 

I won't say he's out of position, or misdiagnosing plays, since we truly have no clue what his actual assignments are.

 

My main criticism, and what I will ding him for, is his lack of instincts on chasing down runners and making open field tackles. Dude should be a huge, fast beast swallowing up runners. Instead he looks like a baby giraffe learning how to run.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Color me shocked. I expected Lorax to say “Tremaine is in over his head instinctually and physically at the MLB position” 😂

[klos63]

1 hour ago, JustWinPlease said:

Can we relax on this kid, please? I've seen lots of discussions about this kid, yet one thing hasn't been mentioned much.

He's still only 22 years old, he's probably younger than some 2020 draft picks...he's not even close to being in his prime yet.

Prime is not necessarily chronological age, it's experience too. This is year 3, if his age is holding him back, maybe don't draft someone that young who won't be in his prime by the time his first contract is up.

[LabattBlue]

How much are the Bills playing a 2 LB set, and are they using that because they don’t have a good 3rd LB, or is it a scheme thing?