Phil The Thrill Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 it’s a quiet time on the Bills front, so I had an idea to have what should be an interesting poll. I don’t follow the Sabres too closely but I’ve been taken back at how hopeless the fanbase feels about the franchise...namely Terry Pegula. Fans are heavily blaming Pegula for the Sabres failures in the same way that many of us blamed Ralph back in the day. People are pissed at Pegula, and the fanbase seems pretty bleak Who in your opinion was the better owner - Ralph Wilson with the Bills or Terry Pegula as Sabres Owner? Or course, the sample size is limited but it’s an interesting question. If we are talking NFL, I think you could say that what Terry has done over the past 6 years has been better than what Ralph accomplished over his decade of ownership. But you have to factor in Terry the owner of the Bills and Sabres. With the Bills he made a few mistakes for sure (hiring Rex Ryan/not firing Doug Whaley) but the organization appears to be in a very stable spot. The Sabres are an entirely different story. Much like the Bills, the Sabres have been held back by a lack of vision, poor decisions and turnover at GM/HC....just like the Drought teams. Worse - they’ve lost A LOT and failed to make the playoffs for an unusually long time. You can also argue that Terry, like Ralph, empowered the wrong people, hired leaders without a vision or without knowledge or ability how to carry out that vision, and that he held onto to those leaders for too long. This is a tough question for me... Because both of their tenures have been very unremarkable. I might have to give a slight edge to Terry only because he at least tried to be proactive in hiring different GM’s and coaches when things weren’t working. Terry also doesn’t seem to be happy with losing. He’s also tried to reach outside the organization to hire. Ralph tended to keep bad people in power for a very long time until it was obvious they needed to go. Ever since he fired Donahoe, he spend an nearly entire only hiring people he had previously known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 oh phil the thrill! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Are you sure you’re not an intern at WGR? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Ralph was cheap, Terry has given the Sabres everything he can financially. They just suck 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I wonder how @Rico will vote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: it’s a quiet time on the Bills front, so I had an idea to have what should be an interesting poll. I don’t follow the Sabres too closely but I’ve been taken back at how hopeless the fanbase feels about the franchise...namely Terry Pegula. Fans are heavily blaming Pegula for the Sabres failures in the same way that many of us blamed Ralph back in the day. People are pissed at Pegula, and the fanbase seems pretty bleak Who in your opinion was the better owner - Ralph Wilson with the Bills or Terry Pegula as Sabres Owner? Or course, the sample size is limited but it’s an interesting question. If we are talking NFL, I think you could say that what Terry has done over the past 6 years has been better than what Ralph accomplished over his decade of ownership. But you have to factor in Terry the owner of the Bills and Sabres. With the Bills he made a few mistakes for sure (hiring Rex Ryan/not firing Doug Whaley) but the organization appears to be in a very stable spot. The Sabres are an entirely different story. Much like the Bills, the Sabres have been held back by a lack of vision, poor decisions and turnover at GM/HC....just like the Drought teams. Worse - they’ve lost A LOT and failed to make the playoffs for an unusually long time. You can also argue that Terry, like Ralph, empowered the wrong people, hired leaders without a vision or without knowledge or ability how to carry out that vision, and that he held onto to those leaders for too long. This is a tough question for me... Because both of their tenures have been very unremarkable. I might have to give a slight edge to Terry only because he at least tried to be proactive in hiring different GM’s and coaches when things weren’t working. Terry also doesn’t seem to be happy with losing. He’s also tried to reach outside the organization to hire. Ralph tended to keep bad people in power for a very long time until it was obvious they needed to go. Ever since he fired Donahoe, he spend an nearly entire only hiring people he had previously known. Good afternoon. I read your post. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Ralph was cheap, Terry has given the Sabres everything he can financially. They just suck Where did the Oriel go? I understand they just suck also, but it is just about Baseball season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Where did the Oriel go? I understand they just suck also, but it is just about Baseball season He's on his way to spring training as we speak. The goat is because a angry bbmb refugee told me to go play with my goat at the mall in horseheads 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Nothing against Ralph but he was, for the long haul, never nearly as committed as Terry & Kim. He "settled" for Buffalo as an AFL franchise location. Ralph mostly lived in Detroit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw2112 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 People may disagree, but I think that we are lucky to have Pegula as the Sabres owner. It is taking him a LONG time to figure it out, but he will eventually get it right, just as he did with the Bills. He is willing to commit whatever resources are necessary to be successful, but he just has not been able to get the right people in place - players, coaches and management. I think they might finally have the right coach and management in place, and a few core players, but they need to strengthen the middle of the lineup. They have good 1st line and 4th line players, but terrible 2nd and 3rd liners. Years bad drafting and Murray trading away draft picks and assets to accelerate the rebuild is the cause. Of course, Botterill can't be let off the hook for the O'Reilly trade, but if Ryan wanted out of town, perhaps Jason's hand was forced and he got the best the market would bear. Maybe Tage develops into a 1st or 2nd line player (I'm not holding my breath, but we'll see) and the trade doesn't look so bad down the road. I'm still on board with Terry & Kim. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Without Ralph Wilson we wouldn't have a team for Terry Pegula to buy. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Ralph was cheap, Terry has given the Sabres everything he can financially. They just suck Ralph was so cheap he made OJ Simpson the highest paid player in the 70s Jimbo the highest paid in the 80s. The early 90s Bills were called the million dollar bills because how much money Ralph threw around In the 2000s he made Derrick Dockery the 3rd highest paid guard OF ALL TIME He gave Mario 100 million He have Dareus 100 million You have no clue about cheap and you should feel bad for bashing the SINGLE PERSON who kept us here for 50+ years 2 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg S Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I don't know if you can compare Ralph Wilson to Terry/Kim Pegula. Terry and Kim haven't been owners all that long. If I were grading the Pegula's on their own I would give them a C-. They get a B for the Bills since they got it right with Beane/McDermott. They get a F for the Sabres. No other way to say this but the Sabres continue to be a train wreck. As for Ralph Wilson he did a lot of great things for the league starting back in the AFL days. He did bring football to Buffalo and made sure they stayed after his passing. He wasn't a great owner as far as the wins and losses. Highlights for his teams were the back to back AFL championships. The early 80's Knox teams, and of course the Super Bowl years. Aside from that there was a ton of losing. I would grade him a C/C+ overall. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Ralph took the Bills to two AFL championships and four superbowl appearances, and he's a hall of fame owner. Until Pegula accomplishes something with the Sabres (or the Bills) how can we make claims that he's a better owner? I think Pegula has the Bills on the right track. I have no idea about the Sabres. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) I’m not sure how to even compare these two. Ralph made some mistakes particularly towards the end ... perhaps his biggest was trusting Brandon too much. Being fiscally conservative while oft derided might be the very reason the Bills were able to stay put and remain a viable business in Buffalo. Seems Pegula got it right with Sean and Beane, after a big, biiiig mistake with Rex. on the Sabres, I can’t help but think the entire scouting staff and front office are putting really crappy rosters together and they better fix this soon, they are badly squandering prime Eichel years they will never get back. Would love to know why these guys can look unbeatable in October then devolve to a flaming pile of dog poop for the rest of the year. Edited February 6, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Ralph was so cheap he made OJ Simpson the highest paid player in the 70s Jimbo the highest paid in the 80s. The early 90s Bills were called the million dollar bills because how much money Ralph threw around In the 2000s he made Derrick Dockery the 3rd highest paid guard OF ALL TIME He gave Mario 100 million He have Dareus 100 million You have no clue about cheap and you should feel bad for bashing the SINGLE PERSON who kept us here for 50+ years Lighten up Francis! I feel great I got you to go crazy writing a double spaced rant. Have a nice day 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I stopped at "what should be an interesting poll. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Gugny said: I wonder how @Rico will vote. Unfortunately it is a private vote, or I would appropriately and accordingly label each and every poster who selected Ralph for future reference. Edited February 6, 2020 by Rico 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 40 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Without Ralph Wilson we wouldn't have a team for Terry Pegula to buy. Not relevant to the question asked. Ralph did some good things, but screwed the pooch the majority of the time. It was under his management that the team acquired the bad reputation that the current team is still trying to shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 50 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said: Nothing against Ralph but he was, for the long haul, never nearly as committed as Terry & Kim. He "settled" for Buffalo as an AFL franchise location. Ralph mostly lived in Detroit. The Pegula's have been woeful on-ice and on-field stewards..........but they are absolutely committed to winning. Ralph was NEVER committed to winning..........he wanted to win and if he thought he might he'd spend........and if he thought he might not he'd cut bait and try to beat his fellow owners in the net profit game. More often than not it was the latter. Either way was fine to him. We are going thru a long, painful learning curve with The Pegs......(I know some of you are thrilled with the Bills being competitive but overall it's like 2 fringe playoff teams in 15 seasons of ownership Bills/Sabres)......hopefully in the end it turns out like the Rooney ownership went in Pittsburgh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 This is really a bad poll. First because neither owner would want this, and second it’s unfair to Ralph Wilson. For all of his faults he loved the area, the area I grew up and watched my team. I’m sure he was offered money to relocate and make more but he did it for us as well. He died as the owner because he loved football. That’s something worth cheering and cherishing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Not relevant to the question asked. Ralph did some good things, but screwed the pooch the majority of the time. It was under his management that the team acquired the bad reputation that the current team is still trying to shed. I agree with you. Ralph had three good years in the mid-sixties and the Kelly years. There were a couple of other decent years sprinkled in but other than that he was a dumpster fire. Current ownership is off to a good start but needs to put together a sustained level of performance to prove that recent improvements are not an aberration. When it comes to the Sabres, Pegula is very Ralph like. It has been pathetic. Edited February 6, 2020 by Florida Bills Fanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Ralph was cheap. Terry spends money. He's just not hiring the right people. But it's not from a lack of trying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 The Pegulas have their issues, but it isn't from lack of trying... Ralph was just unwilling to spend at various times in the teams history....his miserly ways pretty much ended the "talking proud" era of Bills football with a whimper.... all in all I appreciate them both. I do believe, at some point the Pegulas will get things right. They just need to hire the right people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Ralph was cheap. Terry spends money. He's just not hiring the right people. But it's not from a lack of trying. Further to this, and Buffalo716’s remarks above, it sometimes seemed Ralph Wilson would overspend on a player, and then it often seemed the team would go on an austerity program in light of the previous extravagance. It might not be factual, but based upon the media and disgruntled players, it certainly seemed what the area was hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Ralph never cried at a presser. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 People voting must be young folks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Not sure how we can compare Ralph a football owner to Terry a Hockey owner. better poll would have been Terry Pegula Sabres Owner or Terry Pegula Bills owner (yep two different styles from same person) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 How many times have the Pegula owned Sabres made the playoffs? Prior to their ownership the Sabres had made the playoffs 29 out of 40 years. Only missed 11 times in 40 years. This year would be 9 straight for the Pegulas...that is almost equal to the prior 40 years combined. How can they be doing a better job than any owner of any team, any sport. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Here’s a poll, what was worse? a. Terry’s tears at his Sabres intro presser. b. Terry’s booger at his Bills intro presser. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Gugny said: I wonder how @Rico will vote. ...same way he would about Whaley, right?......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Ralph was cheap. Terry spends money. He's just not hiring the right people. But it's not from a lack of trying. Ralph was so cheap he gave up....likely a billion plus dollars.... by choosing to keep the Bills in Buff....and grandfathering them staying in his Estate. He could have moved the Bills at any time and nobody could have questioned it.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Jerry Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Ralph was so cheap he made OJ Simpson the highest paid player in the 70s Jimbo the highest paid in the 80s. The early 90s Bills were called the million dollar bills because how much money Ralph threw around In the 2000s he made Derrick Dockery the 3rd highest paid guard OF ALL TIME He gave Mario 100 million He have Dareus 100 million You have no clue about cheap and you should feel bad for bashing the SINGLE PERSON who kept us here for 50+ years This is super deceiving - the three men you mentioned were paid through the salary cap. Ralph HAD to spend that money and it was fully guaranteed and subsidized by the NFL TV’s contract. Ralph WAS cheap when it came to coaches, GM’s and other front office hired. His track record speaks for itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: This is super deceiving - the three men you mentioned were paid through the salary cap. Ralph HAD to spend that money and it was fully guaranteed and subsidized by the NFL TV’s contract. Ralph WAS cheap when it came to coaches, GM’s and other front office hired. His track record speaks for itself The Bengals had 4-6 regional scouts in there front office for years. Still do That's cheap He's a HoF owner yea his track record speaks for itself 2 AFL titles 4 AFC championships, HoF players and a legacy of the Bills Not every team can win the SB yearly.. we struggled for 17 years because we didn't have a QB Edited February 7, 2020 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Why isn't Terry Pegula (Bills) on this poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Ralph was cheap. Terry spends money. He's just not hiring the right people. But it's not from a lack of trying. Yeah, but if spending money = being a good owner then how do you rate Daniel Snyder? You've got to make the right moves too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Gugny said: I wonder how @Rico will vote. the correct way 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said: Ralph was cheap, Terry has given the Sabres everything he can financially. They just suck except hiring good people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, MJS said: Ralph took the Bills to two AFL championships and four superbowl appearances, and he's a hall of fame owner. Until Pegula accomplishes something with the Sabres (or the Bills) how can we make claims that he's a better owner? I think Pegula has the Bills on the right track. I have no idea about the Sabres. This. I can’t believe TPegs is winning this poll by a 2:1 ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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