What would a T. White Extension look like?

[Franchiseneedsme]

If he signed this offseason what would it look like.?Would he sign a 7 year deal worth $100M. Give him 20M first year, a 10M signing bonus, and 40M Guaranteed. He's happy with that. And the Bills get him for cheap year 2-7.  Only like 13M average and they could cut him with little cap ramifications after year 2 of the deal. I think he would sign that.

I know he could prob get 17M-18M if he gets to free agency but the Bill's would Tag him twice if they couldn't get a deal done. And he would be Gambling he wouldn't get hurt.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Franchiseneedsme

[BuffaloBills1998]

16 minutes ago, Franchiseneedsme said:

If he signed this offseason what would it look like.?Would he sign a 7 year deal worth $100M. Give him 20M first year, a 10M signing bonus, and 40M Guaranteed. He's happy with that. And the Bills get him for cheap year 2-7.  Only like 13M average and they could cut him with little cap ramifications after year 2 of the deal. I think he would sign that.

I know he could prob get 17M-18M if he gets to free agency but the Bill's would Tag him twice if they couldn't get a deal done. And he would be Gambling he wouldn't get hurt.

I think this sums it up pretty well. He’s gonna be a Buffalo Bill for a long time

[NewEra]

I’ll say 5 years 87 mill 60 gtd

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Uh, the highest contract in the league for a DB is $75M with an average of $15M and max guarantee of $50M.  So you would be offering 33% more than the highest DB contract and $20 M more in guaranteed money.  White is good but he is not Deion Sanders.  He is not even Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis.  

Now is not the time to extend him unless he is silly and gives the team a discount.  Get one more year on his rookie deal and then extend him after his fourth year when you still have the leverage of picking up the fifth year option and franchise tags.  

Use the cap space this year for a WR and or DE in a front loaded contract that still leaves money for White, Allen, and others down the road.

 

 

 

 

[Bangarang]

5 years $80 mil

 

$45 mil guaranteed 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Bangarang

[Big Turk]

47 minutes ago, Franchiseneedsme said:

If he signed this offseason what would it look like.?Would he sign a 7 year deal worth $100M. Give him 20M first year, a 10M signing bonus, and 40M Guaranteed. He's happy with that. And the Bills get him for cheap year 2-7.  Only like 13M average and they could cut him with little cap ramifications after year 2 of the deal. I think he would sign that.

I know he could prob get 17M-18M if he gets to free agency but the Bill's would Tag him twice if they couldn't get a deal done. And he would be Gambling he wouldn't get hurt.

 

Typically don't get huge money first year as a base since the signing bonus is paid up front.  Usually the big money is backloaded.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He's going to set the market. He'll get 4-5 years and his guarantees will be slightly higher than whoever signed before him. Bills would be smart to get it done as soon as possible once the new NFL year begins.

[Poleshifter]

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Typically don't get huge money first year as a base since the signing bonus is paid up front.  Usually the big money is backloaded.

 

Precisely. Because from a cap perspective it is money you never get back. If you go big that first year and give up a 4th year of cost controlled rookie deal you ain't getting a year of cost control at the end to make up for it. It is why there are very few end of year three extensions for non QBs taken in the first round. From the 2016 class (ie. those that came up last year) there was Zeke and that was it. 

 

And this is why an extension this offseason is a problem for the Bills unless the CBA is sorted. Because they are not allowed more than 30% uplift between year 1 (covered by the current CBA) and year 2 (currently uncovered). 

 

The smart move is to take up the 5th year option, let White play out 2020, and then sign him next offseason, UNLESS the CBA is sorted before camp - in which case you sign him this year keep 2020 cost controlled and roll from there.

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He's going to set the market. He'll get 4-5 years and his guarantees will be slightly higher than whoever signed before him. Bills would be smart to get it done as soon as possible once the new NFL year begins.

 

In a normal year - yes. Because this is the final year of the current CBA it is made a lot more complicated. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Uh, the highest contract in the league for a DB is $75M with an average of $15M and max guarantee of $50M.  So you would be offering 33% more than the highest DB contract and $20 M more in guaranteed money.  White is good but he is not Deion Sanders.  He is not even Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis.  

Now is not the time to extend him unless he is silly and gives the team a discount.  Get one more year on his rookie deal and then extend him after his fourth year when you still have the leverage of picking up the fifth year option and franchise tags.  

Use the cap space this year for a WR and or DE in a front loaded contract that still leaves money for White, Allen, and others down the road.

 

 

 

 

Every year you wait, the average for a position can increase . There is a benefit for signing one of your own players sooner rather than later.

Edited February 4, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I thought they had pills for that nowadays...?  No need for artificial devices.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Uh, the highest contract in the league for a DB is $75M with an average of $15M and max guarantee of $50M.  So you would be offering 33% more than the highest DB contract and $20 M more in guaranteed money.  White is good but he is not Deion Sanders.  He is not even Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis.  

Now is not the time to extend him unless he is silly and gives the team a discount.  Get one more year on his rookie deal and then extend him after his fourth year when you still have the leverage of picking up the fifth year option and franchise tags.  

Use the cap space this year for a WR and or DE in a front loaded contract that still leaves money for White, Allen, and others down the road.

 

 

 

Uh.

 

Why would he NOT give the team a discount if they extend him this year?

 

Getting a big contract this year instead of one or two years down the road is a huge benefit for him, huge, not to mention a great insurance policy against injury. Early extensions always get a discount. If they didn't why would the team do it?

 

I'm not saying they will do this. As Gunner says, it's complex, but it also makes sense to do this if possible in a year when they have a ton of cap space and a chance to get him at a bit of a discount if you do indeed think he's going to be here for a long time. And Gunner, why not give him a guaranteed first year salary that's high with a lower signing bonus? In a year when we have so much cash, it might easily make sense, depending on their exact aims on what to do with the money this year and their exact plans for him in the future and the value they place on keeping him.

 

The big money is indeed usually backloaded but depending on their tactical aims, this might work for them.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Thurman#1

[thenorthremembers]

5/79 million.  Front load it with the 3 something he is due this year for a little over 19million in year one, average of 15.9 every year after.

[BobbyC81]

3 hours ago, Poleshifter said:

LOL! I was thinking the same thing!

[machine gun kelly]

I won’t give an exact as I’ll leave up to you cap experts, but my two cents is a five year deal is fine as long as we could get out of it after three if he becomes injury prone.  You’d almost rather give him less, but a strong guarantee as that is what they care most about in their contracts.

[WideRightRevenge]

Whatever it takes.  Some DB we let leave just got Defensive player of the year for the Evil Empire ... no Groundhog Day please .. sign our Goalie!!!

[BarleyNY]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tredavious-white-21768/market-value/
 

Spotrac estimates his market value at 5 years, $78M.  That’d be the biggest contract for any CB.  I say that he’s worth that.  I’d do it as an extension, not a new deal.  That would keep him here for 6 more seasons and keep the salary low this year, but he’d get his signing bonus a year early. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

I'm not saying they will do this. As Gunner says, it's complex, but it also makes sense to do this if possible in a year when they have a ton of cap space and a chance to get him at a bit of a discount if you do indeed think he's going to be here for a long time. And Gunner, why not give him a guaranteed first year salary that's high with a lower signing bonus? In a year when we have so much cash, it might easily make sense, depending on their exact aims on what to do with the money this year and their exact plans for him in the future and the value they place on keeping him.

 

Because I don't see any advantage in the team of doing that beyond "they lock up White" which they could do next year anyway. I don't know why you'd voluntarily give up that year of cap control. Yes it might reduce the cost in future years by a mill or two but you are never getting that "it's enough to pay an extra guy" space back.

 

My view is that they should work out what the parameters of a White deal would be and plan around it so that they are ready to go as soon as a new CBA is in place. But I don't think extending him with a big cap hit this year is the way to go. Nor is there any guarantee White would accept that. The reason players coming off rookie deals like the way those second contracts are done is they naturally push guaranteed money into the later years of the deal for cap purposes (even though in real terms that money goes in their pockets straight away) and the fact that teams are then faced with dead money cutting guys towards the end of those contracts makes it more likely that they choose not to do so and, therefore, it increases the chances of a player like White, getting the big but unguaranteed numbers in years 4 and 5 of the new deal.

 

24 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tredavious-white-21768/market-value/
 

Spotrac estimates his market value at 5 years, $78M.  That’d be the biggest contract for any CB.  I say that he’s worth that.  I’d do it as an extension, not a new deal.  That would keep him here for 6 more seasons and keep the salary low this year, but he’d get his signing bonus a year early. 

 

Agreed. But you can't do that unless a new CBA is in place because at the moment there is a restriction on an uplift of more than 30% from 2020 to 20201 on new deals signed this year.

 

If the CBA gets sorted before camp the deal you suggest is exactly the deal they should do.

Edited February 4, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Thurman#1]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because I don't see any advantage in the team of doing that beyond "they lock up White" which they could do next year anyway. I don't know why you'd voluntarily give up that year of cap control. Yes it might reduce the cost in future years by a mill or two but you are never getting that "it's enough to pay an extra guy" space back.

 

My view is that they should work out what the parameters of a White deal would be and plan around it so that they are ready to go as soon as a new CBA is in place. But I don't think extending him with a big cap hit this year is the way to go. Nor is there any guarantee White would accept that. The reason players coming off rookie deals like the way those second contracts are done is they naturally push guaranteed money into the later years of the deal for cap purposes (even though in real terms that money goes in their pockets straight away) and the fact that teams are then faced with dead money cutting guys towards the end of those contracts makes it more likely that they choose not to do so and, therefore, it increases the chances of a player like White, getting the big but unguaranteed numbers in years 4 and 5 of the new deal.

 

 

 

The advantage of that for the team is that they can get a cheaper contract per year than they would have if they wait a year. Which would from the team's perspective move a lot of the burden to a year - this year - when they can afford it. Lower the burden in years when other contracts will need to be paid for in future years. It's a good move for the team's cap future. It's true this isn't a common move. But it could really make sense, again, depending on their views of how valuable he is to their future. Maybe they intend to treat him the way the Panthers did Josh Norman. If they think that McDermott can do incredible things with CBs who aren't by themselves that terrific, maybe they don't do anything like this. But if they are sure they want him and want to free up cap space down the road, it could make sense.

 

Let's say that next year he signs a $16 mill a year over 5 years contract. Now over the next 6 years the guy is making $1.8 mill in 2020 plus $70 mill, totalling $71.8 mill.

 

So you sign an extension with him this year, extending him for $70 mill over 6 years.

 

Same amount, you say? Yeah, but this year they have a ton of cap space. They're not all that likely to see this much cap space for a while. They're doing the opposite of kicking the can down the road, they're hauling cans forward so as you go down the road there are fewer cans and a smoother future. They might even get White to take a few mill less for the chance to get his money early and insure himself against injuries.

 

As for players liking the last years of a contract to be heavily loaded so they don't get cut ... hunh? The only thing they like better is getting the money front-loaded so they can invest earlier. And having the last few years of the contract pay less means they're more likely to stick around as the team will be getting a great deal on those last few years. Or even better the team extends them a second time or cuts them for a team that will pay more than the last few years of the old contract would have. The players love this. I mean, if Tre were older it might not make sense but the end of that theoretical second contract would come when he's 31 and can probably get a really nice third contract somewhere, maybe even here.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Freddie's Dead]

 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The advantage of that for the team is that they can get a cheaper contract per year than they would have if they wait a year. Which would from the team's perspective move a lot of the burden to a year - this year - when they can afford it. Lower the burden in years when other contracts will need to be paid for in future years. It's a good move for the team's cap future. It's true this isn't a common move. But it could really make sense, again, depending on their views of how valuable he is to their future. Maybe they intend to treat him the way the Panthers did Josh Norman. If they think that McDermott can do incredible things with CBs who aren't by themselves that terrific, maybe they don't do anything like this. But if they are sure they want him and want to free up cap space down the road, it could make sense.

 

Let's say that next year he signs a $16 mill a year over 5 years contract. Now over the next 6 years the guy is making $1.8 mill in 2020 plus $70 mill, totalling $71.8 mill.

 

So you sign an extension with him this year, extending him for $70 mill over 6 years.

 

Same amount, you say? Yeah, but this year they have a ton of cap space. They're not all that likely to see this much cap space for a while. They're doing the opposite of kicking the can down the road, they're hauling cans forward so as you go down the road there are fewer cans and a smoother future. They might even get White to take a few mill less for the chance to get his money early and insure himself against injuries.

 

As for players liking the last years of a contract to be heavily loaded so they don't get cut ... hunh? The only thing they like better is getting the money front-loaded so they can invest earlier. And having the last few years of the contract pay less means they're more likely to stick around as the team will be getting a great deal on those last few years. Or even better the team extends them a second time or cuts them for a team that will pay more than the last few years of the old contract would have. The players love this. I mean, if Tre were older it might not make sense but the end of that theoretical second contract would come when he's 31 and can probably get a really nice third contract somewhere, maybe even here.

 

Beyond the salary cap inflation (which frankly means whatever year you sign the deal it looks cheap within 3 years) I'm not sure why White would be any cheaper this year than next. Fans always presume that the earlier you sign a guy the cheaper you get them but that assumption is rather based on guys being more established after 4 years. White is widely regarded as a top 3 corner in this league. Whether you pay him this year or next he is re-setting the market and beyond normal salary cap inflation I see no reason why he would be cheaper this offseason.

 

I agree that your proposed strategy is the opposite of kicking the can, but I don't really see the benefit of it. The Bills have a QB on a rookie deal. This is the time you load up around him. This is not the time to needlessly give up cost control to try and save money down the road. I wouldn't characterise my approach as kicking the can either (not suggesting that is what you were saying I don't think you were) I think my proposed approach is the most sensible way to manage the cap.

 

And I think you are wrong on second contract players. Yes - they want the money up front that is the most important thing. Big signing bonus, pay me now. But the cheaper they are at the end of that second contract in terms of dead money there is on their deal the more likely they are to get cut and never seen the unguaranteed salary (which is often the real prize in those 4th and 5th years).

[Steve O]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I think this sums it up pretty well. He’s gonna be a Buffalo Bill for a long time

Hope so

[MJS]

A stack of papers.

[Chicken Boo]

First you guys call him the best DB in the league, then want him to sign something ridiculous like a 7 year deal averaging $14 million per.

 

Tre is going to break the bank!  It'll be a 4 year deal, at most, averaging somehwere between 16-20 million per season!  If the Bills don't extend Tre's deal some time next season and choose to exercise the 5th year option, Tre WILL hold out and rightfully so.

 

We'll see how much you all love him then.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Chicken Boo

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

First you guys call him the best DB in the league, then want him to sign something ridiculous like a 7 year deal averaging $14 million per.

 

Tre is going to break the bank!  It'll be a 4 year deal, at most, averaging somehwere between 16-20 million per season!  If the Bills don't extend Tre's deal some time next season and choose to exercise the 5th year option, Tre WILL hold out and rightfully so.

 

We'll see how much you all love him then.

 

There is no question of the Bills asking him to play on the option. None whatsoever. They will either sign him this offseason before camp (might depend as I have been saying on the new CBA being agreed) or they will sign him in the offseason next year before the 5th year option actually kicks in.

[nucci]

4 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Every year you wait, the average for a position can increase . There is a benefit for signing one of your own players sooner rather than later.

there's also the benefit for the player of waiting a year since new CBA and TV contracts coming.

[atlbillsfan1975]

7 minutes ago, nucci said:

there's also the benefit for the player of waiting a year since new CBA and TV contracts coming.

That’s happening this summer I believe.

[RyanC883]

it looks like this: 

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

We'll keep him.  And as others have noted, sooner rather than later is likely better.  Keeps him locked up, lower price, and sends a good signal to players that we keep those who perform over several seasons.  

[thebandit27]

I’ve got it projected at 5 years, $82M.

$56M fully guaranteed

$25M signing bonus

Fully gtd base of $10M in 2020 and a gtd roster bonus of $2M

Fully gtd base of $10M in 2021 and a gtd roster bonus of $1M

Fully gtd base of $8M in 2022

 

Cap hits are 17,16,13,17,19 for 2020-2024

Dead $$ hits are 56, 39, 23, 10, 5 for 2020-2024

[somnus00]

15 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He's going to set the market. He'll get 4-5 years and his guarantees will be slightly higher than whoever signed before him. Bills would be smart to get it done as soon as possible once the new NFL year begins.

 

Agreed. The Bills need to sign him before Jalen gets extended.

[papazoid]

6 yr / $100 mil ($16.7/yr)

 

he will be highest paid corner when he signs

 

most top corners currently get 5yr/$75 ($15/yr)

[DrDawkinstein]

14 hours ago, Poleshifter said:

 

Exactly what I came in to post. Well done.

 

11 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Every year you wait, the average for a position can increase . There is a benefit for signing one of your own players sooner rather than later.

 

It's not just up to the team. Why wouldn't the player wait? Salaries only go up. Waiting another year or even two could mean an additional $15M on his contract.

[T master]

How much did Gilmore strap the Pats for it should be some where around the same for Tre .

 

Seeing as the experts have him so much lower than Gilmore though in the ranking of players they may be able to get him at a lot lower price ?.

[Bring it]

Talent isn’t the issue here IMO. He’s not Revis or D. Sanders but really close! How many more picks and passes defended would he have if there was a good corner opposite him? Is he the leader and character guy you want? Beane also has stated that teammates watch to see who gets what money and he has seen it divide a locker room! If his teammates don’t respect him as a elite talent that complicates things. I think White is worth top money just judging from what we have seen. Love watching him play!!

[thebandit27]

18 hours ago, papazoid said:

6 yr / $100 mil ($16.7/yr)

 

he will be highest paid corner when he signs

 

most top corners currently get 5yr/$75 ($15/yr)

Most? There are 2 guys in NFL history that have gotten $15M AAV.

 

$15.5M per would be a record; $16M would be a MONSTER.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

When I first read the title of the thread, thought it was the announcement along with an artists conception of some new highway they were building in the Buffalo area. 

 

Maybe the replacement to the skyway!

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I really don’t want to spend 80 mil at over 15 mil a year on a zone CB. I still think White is a 8 to 12 rated CB. He is not a shut down CB who will follow the best WR on the other team and shut him down. I would go no higher than 65mil for 5 years with 30 mil guaranteed. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Bring it said:

Talent isn’t the issue here IMO. He’s not Revis or D. Sanders but really close! How many more picks and passes defended would he have if there was a good corner opposite him? Is he the leader and character guy you want? Beane also has stated that teammates watch to see who gets what money and he has seen it divide a locker room! If his teammates don’t respect him as a elite talent that complicates things. I think White is worth top money just judging from what we have seen. Love watching him play!!

I disagree, I think White is closer to Josh Norman than Revis or Deion. There are reports that Washington would love to wash their hands of the Josh Norman deal. I would rather trade White for 2 1st rd picks than give him over 80 mil for 5 years.

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 2/4/2020 at 8:27 AM, Chicken Boo said:

First you guys call him the best DB in the league, then want him to sign something ridiculous like a 7 year deal averaging $14 million per.

 

Tre is going to break the bank!  It'll be a 4 year deal, at most, averaging somehwere between 16-20 million per season!  If the Bills don't extend Tre's deal some time next season and choose to exercise the 5th year option, Tre WILL hold out and rightfully so.

 

We'll see how much you all love him then.

You will see how much everyone loves him when he is on his new 90mil   5 year deal and has a down year with only 2 int’s.  I would honestly rather put my money on defense into DE and cover LB’s that can pass rush. I would sign average players on defense and let McD coach them up. I would put my 70 and 80 mil contracts into WR, O-Line and TE