Is there a role for Tyler Kroft on the Bills?

[Phil The Thrill]

I was excited for the Tyler Kroft signing this offseason considering he seemed to be a much more athletic version of Scott Chandler.
 

But since returning from injury 3 weeks ago, he’s had hardly any impact on the offense.  From what I’ve been able to see, it looks like he’s had 3 targets, and 2 catches for just 32 yards.  
 

With the emergence of Dawson Knox this season (due partly to Kroft’s absence) and Josh Allen learning to make reads and utilize his receiving options consistently, it makes me wonder what his role on the team will be this year and moving forward.  
 

The majority of the snaps will go to Knox this season and next season.

 

The Bills love using Lee Smith (when he’s not committing penalties!) in 2 TE and “big people” sets.  

Then there’s Tommy Sweeney.  He’s been inactive for most of the year and yes he’s a 7th round pick, but it makes you wonder if he can match Kroft’s production as a backup TE.

 

This leaves Kroft as a #2 TE at best.   Many times a TE2 is the 3rd option in passing plus.  At this point, I’m not sure if Allen is a point in his passing where he can read a defense well enough to utilize this position. 

 

Surprisingly there is an out clause in his contract in 2020.  Where the Bills could void the remaining years of his deal and eat about $1.6 M of dead cap space.  

Best case scenario - what realistic role do you see Tyler Kroft playing this season?  And do you think he’s in danger of getting cut next season, given the out-clause in his contract in 2020?

[GunnerBill]

I like him but he has had a problem staying healthy and Knox has a similar skillset but a higher ceiling. I think he just lost out being hurt. Very much at risk of being cut after the season. 

[Franchiseneedsme]

Yes cut him.  $6m can be better spent. Need to pick up a DE, another upgrade somewhere on the Oline, And another WR.

[ILBillsfan]

28:42 watch kroft get called out and if he makes this play and picks the LB a little(looks like to me he actually slows up) then singletary has a huge gain.  Was also times in this video I seen Kroft kept in to block 

 

Definitely needs to improve

[Gugny]

Is it against the rules to have two TE on the field at the same time?

[Steptide]

I think him being injured through ota's and training camp definitely didn't help. I think he'll be good, but we may not see it until next season 

[frostbitmic]

I'd prefer keeping him as the #2 TE, provided he stays healthy the rest of this season, and get rid of Lee "the human penalty" Smith, even if it costs more to eat his salary.

 

Sweeney and Croom can fight it out for the #3 job.

[SoCal Deek]

Is there a role for a TE in the Bills offense? There hasn’t been such a role for the last 40 years. Why start now? We’ve been doing just fine playing with 10 men! 

[John from Riverside]

Knox was also hurt through Ota and he was making plays

[Bubba Gump]

His role is to monitor the training room, he's in there more than on the field.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I like him but he has had a problem staying healthy and Knox has a similar skillset but a higher ceiling. I think he just lost out being hurt. Very much at risk of being cut after the season. 

 

...have to agree.......think the youngsters Knox & Sweeney will develop nicely....either Kroft or Smith will be gone.....

[H2o]

Knox is clearly becoming one of Josh's favorite targets, has been better blocking than most expected, and seems to be really effective even as a rookie. He's the #1 TE at this point. Now that Kroft is back he's either nothing special or is seriously behind due to the time he missed. More than likely it's the time he missed, but if Sweeney continues to improve in their eyes then I think Kroft may become expendable. This is McDermott though and he will likely lobby for the guy due to the missed time with the team. You know who shouldn't be on the field though? Captain Yellow Flag, Lee Smith. 

[TigerJ]

Kroft is a pretty well rounded TE.  That means he can block and he can catch the ball.  He's not the blocker that Lee Smith is supposed to be, but then Lee Smith has had a ton of penalties.  In the near term, I would probably give Kroft some of the reps that Lee Smith has been getting to see if he can block well enough AND cut down some on the penalties Buffalo has been giving up with Smith.  Long term, I don't see any particular reason to keep him longer than his contract creates an uncomfortable dead cap burden.

[CommonCents]

Sweeney looked fine, Kroft hasn’t done anything. I still don’t understand why Kroft and Smith are getting snaps in front of him. Neither have done anything, one of them is a minus. A very big minus. 

[stuvian]

we haven't had meaningful TE production since Scott Chandler

[Hapless Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I was excited for the Tyler Kroft signing this offseason considering he seemed to be a much more athletic version of Scott Chandler.
 

But since returning from injury 3 weeks ago, he’s had hardly any impact on the offense.  From what I’ve been able to see, it looks like he’s had 3 targets, and 2 catches for just 32 yards.  
 

With the emergence of Dawson Knox this season (due partly to Kroft’s absence) and Josh Allen learning to make reads and utilize his receiving options consistently, it makes me wonder what his role on the team will be this year and moving forward.  
 

The majority of the snaps will go to Knox this season and next season.

 

The Bills love using Lee Smith (when he’s not committing penalties!) in 2 TE and “big people” sets.  

Then there’s Tommy Sweeney.  He’s been inactive for most of the year and yes he’s a 7th round pick, but it makes you wonder if he can match Kroft’s production as a backup TE.

 

This leaves Kroft as a #2 TE at best.   Many times a TE2 is the 3rd option in passing plus.  At this point, I’m not sure if Allen is a point in his passing where he can read a defense well enough to utilize this position. 

 

Surprisingly there is an out clause in his contract in 2020.  Where the Bills could void the remaining years of his deal and eat about $1.6 M of dead cap space.  

Best case scenario - what realistic role do you see Tyler Kroft playing this season?  And do you think he’s in danger of getting cut next season, given the out-clause in his contract in 2020?

 

There's a role for the TE they thought Kroft to be on this team.  2 TE is part of Daboll's offensive plans.  Whether Kroft steps up and fills it or not, remains to be seen.  I think we have to give him an off-season or at least a few more weeks to see if he can build trust with Allen first.

 

The majority of the snaps are going to Knox, but it's not clear to me if something having to do with Kroft's injury is involved.  Kroft got the majority of the snaps his 2nd week back (vs Philly) with 58% to Knox 45%.  The following week Kroft's snaps plummeted to 26% while Knox surge to 76%.  Last week against the Brownies Knox was 59% and Kroft 40%.

 

I don't think you can make a definitive statement like "the majority of the snaps will go to Knox this season and next season".  The problem is, while the #1 TE role is there for the taking on the Bills, we don't seem to have anyone clearly contending to step up and take it.  Kroft has been invisible so far.  Knox has played very well at times, but he's rocking a 22% drop rate.  Does that really get fixed in the NFL?  Any examples?

 

You can wonder about Sweeney, but he hasn't shown much yet.

 

17 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Tyler Kroft will tear up the un suspecting Miami Dolphins with 12  one handed catches for well over 200 yards

 

From your mouth to God's ears

 

3 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Sweeney looked fine, Kroft hasn’t done anything. I still don’t understand why Kroft and Smith are getting snaps in front of him. Neither have done anything, one of them is a minus. A very big minus. 

 

Disagree on Sweeney - what did he do that looked fine?  Smith is a superb blocker who plays very well in the blocking game when he isn't getting penalties.  Kroft has been the invisible man so far.  I'm about to go on a "film hunt" to see if I can see what he's doing on those 40% of our offensive snaps.

[uticaclub]

The IR

[PetermansRedemption]

4 minutes ago, stuvian said:

we haven't had meaningful TE production since Scott Chandler

Disgusting Bills fact. Scott Chandler led the team in receiving yards in 2013 ?‍♂️

[Coach Tuesday]

Honestly he looks out of shape to me.

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's a role for the TE they thought Kroft to be on this team.  2 TE is part of Daboll's offensive plans.  Whether Kroft steps up and fills it or not, remains to be seen.  I think we have to give him an off-season or at least a few more weeks to see if he can build trust with Allen first.

 

The majority of the snaps are going to Knox, but it's not clear to me if something having to do with Kroft's injury is involved.  Kroft got the majority of the snaps his 2nd week back (vs Philly) with 58% to Knox 45%.  The following week Kroft's snaps plummeted to 26% while Knox surge to 76%.  Last week against the Brownies Knox was 59% and Kroft 40%.

 

I don't think you can make a definitive statement like "the majority of the snaps will go to Knox this season and next season".  The problem is, while the #1 TE role is there for the taking on the Bills, we don't seem to have anyone clearly contending to step up and take it.  Kroft has been invisible so far.  Knox has played very well at times, but he's rocking a 22% drop rate.  Does that really get fixed in the NFL?  Any examples?

 

You can wonder about Sweeney, but he hasn't shown much yet.

 

 

From your mouth to God's ears

 

One of them is a superb blocker who plays very well when he isn't getting penalties.

Zero threat as a pass catcher, an extra tackle would offer the same thing with less penalties. I don’t think Sweeney is a world beater but I feel like he could serve as a guy like Jesse James when he got his targets in Pitt. A reliable guy who can get open and knows when to sit down in a zone. 

 

Smith is having a horrible season. I don’t think you’d hurt the team by giving him a week off and trying something different. 

[BADOLBILZ]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I like him but he has had a problem staying healthy and Knox has a similar skillset but a higher ceiling. I think he just lost out being hurt. Very much at risk of being cut after the season. 

 

34 minutes ago, Franchiseneedsme said:

Yes cut him.  $6m can be better spent. Need to pick up a DE, another upgrade somewhere on the Oline, And another WR.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up keeping some seriously under producing talent like Kroft just because the crop of free agent talent at need positions like DE and WR1 is gonna  be pretty thin.   No sense hurting your depth to save money you can't spend.   Shaq might even get a new contract here.

 

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up keeping some seriously under producing talent like Kroft just because the crop of free agent talent at need positions like DE and WR1 is gonna  be pretty thin.   No sense hurting your depth to save money you can't spend.   Shaq might even get a new contract here.

 

Scary part is that the majority of fans are onboard with that. Maybe they are the vocal

minority? How many times have we heard about Star’s contract, well who did it stop them from signing. 

 

Allen needs to morph into what we all want or this is going to be a long few years. 

[HOUSE]

 The Bills are saving Tyler Kroft for the big push

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by HOUSE

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, CommonCents said:

Scary part is that the majority of fans are onboard with that. Maybe they are the vocal

minority? How many times have we heard about Star’s contract, well who did it stop them from signing. 

 

Allen needs to morph into what we all want or this is going to be a long few years. 

 

 

We had a lot of people clutching draft picks here thinking NEXT YEAR the Bills could have their cake and eat it too with FA's at high dollar positions plus their requisite amount of high draft picks.

 

Well if you wanted an impact player like Jadeveon Clowney you were going to have to trade for him or another team with $80M in cap room next year.....like Seattle..... would.   

 

The likelihood is that the draft will yield a couple of guys who are at best net-neutral additions in their rookie season so they need to figure something out to upgrade even if Allen gradually improves.

 

McDermott and Beane were crazy lucky falling into two drafts where there was actual QB talent in round 1 to start their regime but they didn't really cash in big and now their fortune regarding personnel availability might be evening out.

[Nextmanup]

Tyler Kroft?  No.

 

Chris Brown?  Yes.

 

 

[CNYfan]

What about Knox' hands.  Not the best.  I think he let same good gains fall to the turf.

[Mickey]

He could be the tight end that doesn't drop passes. That position on the roster is currently wide open.

[Thurman#1]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

We had a lot of people clutching draft picks here thinking NEXT YEAR the Bills could have their cake and eat it too with FA's at high dollar positions plus their requisite amount of high draft picks. (I know, those people were nuts. Here the Bills are, total failures at 6-3 ... oh, wait. And yeah, there were some people thinking we'd bring in high-dollar FAs, but they weren't listening to McD and Beane, who said you build through the draft and you don't often get the high-dollar FAs. Some people)

 

Well if you wanted an impact player like Jadeveon Clowney you were going to have to trade for him or another team with $80M in cap room next year.....like Seattle..... would. (Again, if you want a team that brings in high-dollar FAs, you might want to switch teams. More, how many high-dollar FAs have the Seahawks brought in during the Schneider era? And how many in his first three years when he was getting his ducks in a row?)

 

The likelihood is that the draft will yield a couple of guys who are at best net-neutral additions in their rookie season so they need to figure something out to upgrade even if Allen gradually improves. (That's not particularly the likelihood. They could easily get a guy who has a big impact like Trey did, and they could easily have guys like Oliver and Ford make big leaps in their second year. And they again have a ton of cap room and could do something similar to what they did last year, moving their OL and WRs from dismal to solid from bringing in a bunch of mid-level solid talent.)

 

McDermott and Beane were crazy lucky falling into two drafts where there was actual QB talent in round 1 to start their regime but they didn't really cash in big and now their fortune regarding personnel availability might be evening out. (Or not. We don't yet know whether they cashed in big. Maybe not. But maybe. As usual, the smart but unusual play is to avoid knee-jerk reactions. A strategy you're not using here.)

 

 

Reactions in bold above.

[Real McClappy]

TE#2 at this point. 

 

Stop the L.Smith BS and use Kroft. 

 

What is the dead cap hit if we cut Kroft in the offseason?  If he is going to remain a TE#2 you can't pay him that kind of $$$.

 

I really hope that he's fully healthy now and just goes off from here out.

[Mr. WEO]

He’s currently starring in the frequently injured,  limited talent,  suspect signing TE role. 

[CSBill]

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

I'd prefer keeping him as the #2 TE, provided he stays healthy the rest of this season, and get rid of Lee "the human penalty" Smith, even if it costs more to eat his salary.

 

Sweeney and Croom can fight it out for the #3 job.

I don’t think Croom is on the team anymore???

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

44 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

What about Knox' hands.  Not the best.  I think he let same good gains fall to the turf.

To be fair, he’s also made some ridiculously hard catches too. 

[US Egg]

57 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 The Bills are saving him for the big push

 

.....and duct taping his ankles and feet.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Honestly he looks out of shape to me.

 

Have you actually seen him on the playing field to tell, and can you point me at what plays?  Enquiring minds want to know.

 

'Cuz I've just been going through the all-22 of the last 2 games looking for him.   It's hard to see the numbers, but so far I'm striking out at "Operation Kroft Find".

 

I mean, you might be 100% right, but I can't find him to tell.

[Seasons1992]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

Is it against the rules to have two TE on the field at the same time?

 

[Real McClappy]

2 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

What about Knox' hands.  Not the best.  I think he let same good gains fall to the turf.

 

Knoxs hands aren't the best at 20% drop rate.  Formal advanced-stats "drops" are typically scored as passes that a player could catch without extraordinary effort - passes that hit outstretched hands without jumping or diving or finger-tip one-hand circus stuff, or passes that fall within the window of the body kind of from the head to the thighs.

 

The crazy thing is that he's made some very high DOD catches cleanly.  I think when they hit him in the hands he starts thinking YAC or "stay in bounds" before he completes Job 1 and secures the ball cleanly.  I'm hoping it's something he can fix, because if he can, then he's a definite keeper.

 

17 minutes ago, CSBill said:

I don’t think Croom is on the team anymore???

 

IR

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Have you actually seen him on the playing field to tell, and can you point me at what plays?  Enquiring minds want to know.

 

'Cuz I've just been going through the all-22 of the last 2 games looking for him.   It's hard to see the numbers, but so far I'm striking out at "Operation Kroft Find".

 

I mean, you might be 100% right, but I can't find him to tell.

There was a red zone play last week that was designed to go to him but got blown up, I don’t remember how but I could tell from the pre-snap that they were targeting him on a seam route.  And he was open.

 

But I’m just basing my comment off his look in a uniform, not on his running speed.  He looks like he’s been drinking beer on the sofa for the past year, not that there’s anything wrong with it.  I remember him being svelter in Cincy.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Here is another negative to having a complex offensive system. We have heard from Jon Brown that this is one of the more expansive offenses he has played in. Kroft is the most proven all around TE on the team right now. Knox has a higher ceiling but as we have seen he needs more time to be consistent. I really think Kroft could be a good receiving option for Allen, if Daboll can figure out how to get him on the field.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

28:42 watch kroft get called out and if he makes this play and picks the LB a little(looks like to me he actually slows up) then singletary has a huge gain.  Was also times in this video I seen Kroft kept in to block 

 

Definitely needs to improve

 

Good find, thank you, this is the sort of thing I've been looking for.

 

4 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Here is another negative to having a complex offensive system. We have heard from Jon Brown that this is one of the more expansive offenses he has played in. Kroft is the most proven all around TE on the team right now. Knox has a higher ceiling but as we have seen he needs more time to be consistent. I really think Kroft could be a good receiving option for Allen, if Daboll can figure out how to get him on the field.

 

He's been on the field a lot.  43% of the time vs the Browns.  What is he doing there is the question.

 

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

There was a red zone play last week that was designed to go to him but got blown up, I don’t remember how but I could tell from the pre-snap that they were targeting him on a seam route.  And he was open.

 

But I’m just basing my comment off his look in a uniform, not on his running speed.  He looks like he’s been drinking beer on the sofa for the past year, not that there’s anything wrong with it.  I remember him being svelter in Cincy.

 

To be fair, his workouts have probably been hampered by injury although the Bills should have zero-g treadmills and that kind of thing if his injury didn't preclude.