Greg Cosell Says Ed Oliver “struggled” and evaluates new Bills players in preseason debut

[Phil The Thrill]

I enjoy listening to the old and wise Greg Cosell breaking down the Bills with The Murph on One Bills Live.

 

I saw that he was on the show last Friday to evaluate the Bills in the preseason opener so i took a listen.

 

To my surprise he was no high on Ed Oliver’s debut.  He said he “struggled” for most of his plays especially when facing double teams.  He also said that Eddie needs to develop “perfect technique” in the NFL because he is too small to take on double teams.  

 

I watched the game and this was not the impression I came away with.  I did see Ed get taken out by Quentin Nelson a few times but he is an All-Pro and one of the best.  I was very impressed by his debut, as were many Bills beat writers and it makes me wonder whether Greg really watched all of Ed’s plays of just the few where he was rendered ineffective by Nelson.

 

As for the rest, Greg seemed somewhat reserved.  He mentioned some good things but also didn’t seem too impressed.  Even Murph was like “I feel pretty good about the Bills.”  But Greg did say, it’s important not to take away too much from the preseason - so maybe that’s why.   

 

He is high on Daryl Johnson.  This he can be a good edge rusher in the NFL.

 

Thinks Josh made some good throws but also missed a few others he should have had.   That pass to Zay Jones could have gotten him walloped.  Says he needs to work on that.

 

Liked Cody Ford’s debut.  Believes that the coaching staff is trying to find the 5 best lineman which is why they are moving him around.  

 

Thinks Vosean Joseph moves well but is a little small and thinks he’ll play behind Matt Milano and will have a tough time getting on the field behind him. (Greg actually talked about him and then 5 minutes later Tasker said “what did you think about Vosean Joseph?”  forcing Greg to repeat what he said earlier LOL).

 

Said Tyree Jackson struggled big time as well and has a ton of work to do.  

 

Puts over Singletary’s hard running, vision and patience but questions whether he can be a “power runner” due to his small size.  

 

https://app.radio.com/hiQaUPmN6Y

[Lurker]

IDK.  It seems to me Cosell is living off his reputation these days.

 

As Marv used to say, "if you get a reputation as an early riser, you can sleep to noon" and nobody will say anything..."

[Laughing Coffin]

Don't need Singletary to be a power runner.  He sheds tackles with his body control and his shiftiness.  I can see us using another day 2 pick next year to draft a bigger back to take the full load off Singletary in the 2020 season and lay the boom between the tackles.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Laughing Coffin

[Phil The Thrill]

10 minutes ago, Lurker said:

IDK.  It seems to me Cosell is living off his reputation these days.

 

As Marv used to say, "if you get a reputation as an early riser, you can sleep to noon" and nobody will say anything..."

 

This is true but many people praise Greg’s football IQ.  Even the analytics sites 

[Lurker]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

 

This is true but many people praise Greg’s football IQ.  Even the analytics sites 

 

IQ and work ethic are two separate and distinct issues...

[Nuncha]

He was watching Ed with his eyes closed....the same way he should keep his mouth.  

[3rdnlng]

If I remember correctly the Bills 1st team defense gave up 27 yards and 1 first down well into the 2nd quarter. Common sense would say the defense played pretty well.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

so our brand new rookie struggled against All-Pro double teams in his first NFL outing?  BUST!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StHustle]

So he thinks almost all our rookies are too small and that a perfect pass to Zay at the goal line was dangerous...not cause it was high but cause defenders were around. Got it.

[Nihilarian]

Geez, the guy Oliver was going against is an all pro, pro bowl graded as one of the very best OGs in the NFL and he held his own. Other critics have said he graded well against the Colts.

 

As far as that Zay Jones pass/drop goes. Might have been the sun in his eyes, might have been alligator arms, might have known he was going to get hit and protected himself in first instinct. All I know is a top receiver catches that ball, period! 

[Inigo Montoya]

Of all the people for Oliver to draw in his first  NFL game, he gets Nelson who was an All Pro LG in his rookie season and is probably the best LG in the game right now.  I thought Oliver played well.   One would think that Nelson would be able to handle the rookie Oliver in his first NFL start without any help.  The fact that the All Pro LG needed some help double teaming Oliver seems proof enough that Oliver has some game.

 

All I know is that if Oliver demands a double team, and Star demands a double team, the rest of that D-line and the linebackers are going to feast this year.

 

 

[US Egg]

I'll worry about Oliver and every other players performance on the 53 man roster in late September.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I enjoy listening to the old and wise Greg Cosell breaking down the Bills with The Murph on One Bills Live.

 

I saw that he was on the show last Friday to evaluate the Bills in the preseason opener so i took a listen.

 

To my surprise he was no high on Ed Oliver’s debut.  He said he “struggled” for most of his plays especially when facing double teams.  He also said that Eddie needs to develop “perfect technique” in the NFL because he is too small to take on double teams.  

 

I watched the game and this was not the impression I came away with.  I did see Ed get taken out by Quentin Nelson a few times but he is an All-Pro and one of the best.  I was very impressed by his debut, as were many Bills beat writers and it makes me wonder whether Greg really watched all of Ed’s plays of just the few where he was rendered ineffective by Nelson.

 

As for the rest, Greg seemed somewhat reserved.  He mentioned some good things but also didn’t seem too impressed.  Even Murph was like “I feel pretty good about the Bills.”  But Greg did say, it’s important not to take away too much from the preseason - so maybe that’s why.   

 

He is high on Daryl Johnson.  This he can be a good edge rusher in the NFL.

 

Thinks Josh made some good throws but also missed a few others he should have had.   That pass to Zay Jones could have gotten him walloped.  Says he needs to work on that.

 

Liked Cody Ford’s debut.  Believes that the coaching staff is trying to find the 5 best lineman which is why they are moving him around.  

 

Thinks Vosean Joseph moves well but is a little small and thinks he’ll play behind Matt Milano and will have a tough time getting on the field behind him. (Greg actually talked about him and then 5 minutes later Tasker said “what did you think about Vosean Joseph?”  forcing Greg to repeat what he said earlier LOL).

 

Said Tyree Jackson struggled big time as well and has a ton of work to do.  

 

Puts over Singletary’s hard running, vision and patience but questions whether he can be a “power runner” due to his small size.  

 

https://app.radio.com/hiQaUPmN6Y

 

That's probably the only part of the game Cosell watched. I think some national guys can only skim games due to time restrictions. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[John from Riverside]

Not a big fan of this guy.....extremely critical of Josh Allen as well.

 

I felt that Josh missed some throws in the first series but warmed up after that....should have came away with a TD to Zay Jones but Jones drops another one that hits him right in the hands.....

 

On Ed Oliver....come on man....he isnt going to make a play on EVERY down....he was taking up blockers so that others could make plays....and getting good penetration....WTF does Cosell want?

[Rocket94]

These "evaluations" sound all the same to me...like a script. Any member of this forum can evaluate players rather well.

[njbuff]

Was Greg watching the game with a paper bag over his head?

[Dadonkadonk]

Everyone is gushing over Nelson. I thought you weren't supposed to draft an OG in the top 10?

I mostly agree with the critique of Cosell's critique.  Oliver is a DT. Just holding his own on most plays is a win from that position. 

It's early but Allen doesn't look any better than he did last year.  I would love to see him just come out and have two drives going 9 for 11with about 85 yards.  Clean and efficient.  It doesn't help that there is not a TE healthy enough to play. 

 

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Of all the people for Oliver to draw in his first  NFL game, he gets Nelson who was an All Pro LG in his rookie season and is probably the best LG in the game right now.  I thought Oliver played well.   One would think that Nelson would be able to handle the rookie Oliver in his first NFL start without any help.  The fact that the All Pro LG needed some help double teaming Oliver seems proof enough that Oliver has some game.

 

All I know is that if Oliver demands a double team, and Star demands a double team, the rest of that D-line and the linebackers are going to feast this year.

 

 

Great point! 

[Protocal69]

Kid Ed Oliver gonna be good bro. Guy with that kinda leverage and Athletic ability . He was playing the Dbl teams tough and made tackles off them! That’s impressive. I thought he would get tossed around! That play where he landed on his feet after jumping Maan please !

— Willie Anderson (@BigWillie7179) August 10, 2019

 

That is a former ALL-PRO Offensive Tackle  giving his opinion.

[MJS]

This was one of the rare times that I disagree with Cosell. My only conclusion is that he was only skimming the game and didn't watch enough of Oliver. From what I saw Oliver more than handled himself. Even the fact that he is drawing double teams speaks to his effectiveness.

 

As for Tasker asking about Vosean Joseph again, I'm pretty sure he meant to ask about the safety Joquan Johnson, but mixed up the names. Poor Tasker...

[Magox]

By any objective measure, Ed Oliver did not struggle.

[GunnerBill]

I totally disagree with him on Oliver. Think he is closer on some of the other stuff. 

[JerseyBills]

Oliver played 11 snaps . Rookies , essentially OL/DL generally play way more than 2 series.. 

 

That tells me the coaches loved what they saw in practice and 11 plays in first pre season gm.

 

 

[K-9]

Right. And Ryan Nassib is a good quarterback. 

[Element115]

6 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

He was watching Ed with his eyes closed....the same way he should keep his mouth.  

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

[GunnerBill]

41 minutes ago, Element115 said:

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

 

No he didn't. He said he made a couple of plays against Nelson and even though Nelson stonewalled him on some plays it was a good start. Him being undersized did not "show". 

[Jpsredemption]

Sal is no Greg Cosell but’s it’s strange how two people can watch the same thing and have such different opinions. For what it’s worth it was nice that Sal broke down play by play. As for Cosell and many pundits I think bias plays such a role in evaluation. If they didn’t like a player coming out of the draft then they really struggle with bias and their supposed objective evaluations. 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Element115 said:

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

 

You're right.

 

6'1" 287 lb., Ed Oliver is too small to be as good as 6'1" 284 lb., Aaron Donald.

 

 

[Element115]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

You're right.

 

6'1" 287 lb., Ed Oliver is too small to be as good as 6'1" 284 lb., Aaron Donald.

 

 

I remember when Donald came out, there were the same criticisms about size. One preseason game and Bills fans are upset that some media guy is not praising Oliver for being the next Donald... 

[Gugny]

7 minutes ago, Element115 said:

I remember when Donald came out, there were the same criticisms about size. One preseason game and Bills fans are upset that some media guy is not praising Oliver for being the next Donald... 

 

No one should expect him to be the next Donald.  And the summary by Cosell goes beyond, "he ain't no Aaron Donald."

 

But saying that his size is a concern when the best DT in football is the same size, to me, is silly.

 

Some Bills fans are upset because what was described is not an accurate representation of what actually happened. 

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Gugny

[The Bills Blog]

On the Tasker point -- another cringeworthy moment from Steve. He was clearly trying to refer to J. Johnson because he said "the safety," but that was stupid in itself because Cosell had already listed the players he observed and J. Johnson was not one of them. So, Cosell probably knew that Steve didn't mean to say Joseph, but he answered about him a second time to both appear courteous and avoid talking about a player (J. Johnson) he didn't watch.

 

You hope that Tasker realized his mistake or that during the break it was brought to his attention by Murph or the producers, but you kind of get the feeling that probably didn't happen. Otherwise, how does he keep making embarrassing mistakes like this?

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

 

 makes me wonder whether Greg really watched all of Ed’s plays of just the few where he was rendered ineffective by Nelson.

 

 

 

Why would he do that and how would he know which plays those would be before he limited his watching to just them?

[ALF]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

You're right.

 

6'1" 287 lb., Ed Oliver is too small to be as good as 6'1" 284 lb., Aaron Donald.

 

 

 

Here's more comparison to Aaron Donald

 

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/28/ed-oliver-pro-day-aaron-donald-comparison-nfl-draft/

[teef]

1 hour ago, Element115 said:

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

How do you feel about the show MacGyver?  MacGyver seems like a show you would really enjoy. Any truth to that?

[vincec]

Nobody's (Cosell or the fans) preconceived notions are going to be changed by one preseason game or probably even the entire preseason. They are going to see what they want to see to reinforce their pre-draft narratives. I suspect that by by the midway point of the regular season there will start to be a shift in one direction of another if Oliver's play calls for it.

[Stank_Nasty]

If zay catches that ball with his hands instead of bobbling he’s got plenty of time to cover up or lunge at the endzone. 

 

It was his own ineptitude that had him hung out to dry. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

10 minutes ago, vincec said:

Nobody's (Cosell or the fans) preconceived notions are going to be changed by one preseason game or probably even the entire preseason. They are going to see what they want to see to reinforce their pre-draft narratives. I suspect that by by the midway point of the regular season there will start to be a shift in one direction of another if Oliver's play calls for it.

 

I agree with your comment. Confirmation bias is a huge factor in our culture.  While football is a team game, the perception of every players individual efforts (not just the QB) are also highly colored by winning and losing.  If at mid-season the Bills are 7-1 and Oliver is playing in the games, peoples individual evaluation of him will be much better than if the Bills are 1-7.   
 

 

[CLTbills]

I was somewhat surprised to hear that, too. But keep in mind, They played Thursday night and had him on Friday. Not a lot of time for him to analyze, what, 11 games that were played on Thursday night? And have super detailed answers?

 

I think he's really great at breaking this stuff down. Love his take each week.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Interesting ...

 

 

 

 

Do we believe Baldy or Cosell? 

Double Teamed multiple times in the game and he managed to produce. 

 

[BigBuff423]

8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I enjoy listening to the old and wise Greg Cosell breaking down the Bills with The Murph on One Bills Live.

 

I saw that he was on the show last Friday to evaluate the Bills in the preseason opener so i took a listen.

 

To my surprise he was no high on Ed Oliver’s debut.  He said he “struggled” for most of his plays especially when facing double teams.  He also said that Eddie needs to develop “perfect technique” in the NFL because he is too small to take on double teams.  

 

I watched the game and this was not the impression I came away with.  I did see Ed get taken out by Quentin Nelson a few times but he is an All-Pro and one of the best.  I was very impressed by his debut, as were many Bills beat writers and it makes me wonder whether Greg really watched all of Ed’s plays of just the few where he was rendered ineffective by Nelson.

 

As for the rest, Greg seemed somewhat reserved.  He mentioned some good things but also didn’t seem too impressed.  Even Murph was like “I feel pretty good about the Bills.”  But Greg did say, it’s important not to take away too much from the preseason - so maybe that’s why.   

 

He is high on Daryl Johnson.  This he can be a good edge rusher in the NFL.

 

Thinks Josh made some good throws but also missed a few others he should have had.   That pass to Zay Jones could have gotten him walloped.  Says he needs to work on that.

 

Liked Cody Ford’s debut.  Believes that the coaching staff is trying to find the 5 best lineman which is why they are moving him around.  

 

Thinks Vosean Joseph moves well but is a little small and thinks he’ll play behind Matt Milano and will have a tough time getting on the field behind him. (Greg actually talked about him and then 5 minutes later Tasker said “what did you think about Vosean Joseph?”  forcing Greg to repeat what he said earlier LOL).

 

Said Tyree Jackson struggled big time as well and has a ton of work to do.  

 

Puts over Singletary’s hard running, vision and patience but questions whether he can be a “power runner” due to his small size.  

 

https://app.radio.com/hiQaUPmN6Y

 

RE: the bolded portion - I completely disagree with this perspective. Primarily because that's a WR's job - to go across the field and make the catch. Now, I don't blame Zay for dropping it in terms of being bent out of shape about it, but I absolutely think Josh put the ball where it needed to be. It was a middle of the field throw through traffic right at the goal line, and it's the WR's job to make that catch, absorb the hit and hold the ball. If this were a wide open field and he "led" the receiver into a hit, then I can agree. But in the Red Zone and trying to fit that ball right at the goal line with no open field in front of the receiver, this is what a QB does. Has the league become so squishy that it can't even acknowledge that WRs make catches in the middle of the field with the threat of getting hit and then getting hit? What's next? A QB has to walk the ball to the WR and tap on the rear and tell him go slowly toward the end zone? 

 

For the rest of it, I can't say I agree except where Josh was rusty and made some early game jitter mistakes, but I think he really started to get into a nice groove before he left the game. Also, it was Ed's first game going against one of the best O-linemen in the NFL and Cosell says he struggled against double-teams....you don't say? Tempered expectations from me for Ed, and I don't expect him to be this game changing force right out of the gate, but to say Ed didn't have a solid to promising debut, would be failing to take the whole situation into context, IMO. All of the other thoughts seem "safe" to me....not much insight and just about anything one of us paying attention could articulate.