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Phil The Thrill

Greg Cosell Says Ed Oliver “struggled” and evaluates new Bills players in preseason debut

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That Oliver kid, he was struggling. Wait.....what number was he again?

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41 minutes ago, Element115 said:

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

 

No he didn't. He said he made a couple of plays against Nelson and even though Nelson stonewalled him on some plays it was a good start. Him being undersized did not "show". 

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Sal is no Greg Cosell but’s it’s strange how two people can watch the same thing and have such different opinions. For what it’s worth it was nice that Sal broke down play by play. As for Cosell and many pundits I think bias plays such a role in evaluation. If they didn’t like a player coming out of the draft then they really struggle with bias and their supposed objective evaluations. 

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1 hour ago, Element115 said:

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

 

You're right.

 

6'1" 287 lb., Ed Oliver is too small to be as good as 6'1" 284 lb., Aaron Donald.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

You're right.

 

6'1" 287 lb., Ed Oliver is too small to be as good as 6'1" 284 lb., Aaron Donald.

 

 

I remember when Donald came out, there were the same criticisms about size. One preseason game and Bills fans are upset that some media guy is not praising Oliver for being the next Donald... 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Element115 said:

I remember when Donald came out, there were the same criticisms about size. One preseason game and Bills fans are upset that some media guy is not praising Oliver for being the next Donald... 

 

No one should expect him to be the next Donald.  And the summary by Cosell goes beyond, "he ain't no Aaron Donald."

 

But saying that his size is a concern when the best DT in football is the same size, to me, is silly.

 

Some Bills fans are upset because what was described is not an accurate representation of what actually happened. 

 

Edited by Gugny
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On the Tasker point -- another cringeworthy moment from Steve. He was clearly trying to refer to J. Johnson because he said "the safety," but that was stupid in itself because Cosell had already listed the players he observed and J. Johnson was not one of them. So, Cosell probably knew that Steve didn't mean to say Joseph, but he answered about him a second time to both appear courteous and avoid talking about a player (J. Johnson) he didn't watch.

 

You hope that Tasker realized his mistake or that during the break it was brought to his attention by Murph or the producers, but you kind of get the feeling that probably didn't happen. Otherwise, how does he keep making embarrassing mistakes like this?

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8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

 

 makes me wonder whether Greg really watched all of Ed’s plays of just the few where he was rendered ineffective by Nelson.

 

 

 

Why would he do that and how would he know which plays those would be before he limited his watching to just them?

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1 hour ago, Element115 said:

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

How do you feel about the show MacGyver?  MacGyver seems like a show you would really enjoy. Any truth to that?

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Nobody's (Cosell or the fans) preconceived notions are going to be changed by one preseason game or probably even the entire preseason. They are going to see what they want to see to reinforce their pre-draft narratives. I suspect that by by the midway point of the regular season there will start to be a shift in one direction of another if Oliver's play calls for it.

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If zay catches that ball with his hands instead of bobbling he’s got plenty of time to cover up or lunge at the endzone. 

 

It was his own ineptitude that had him hung out to dry. 

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10 minutes ago, vincec said:

Nobody's (Cosell or the fans) preconceived notions are going to be changed by one preseason game or probably even the entire preseason. They are going to see what they want to see to reinforce their pre-draft narratives. I suspect that by by the midway point of the regular season there will start to be a shift in one direction of another if Oliver's play calls for it.

 

I agree with your comment. Confirmation bias is a huge factor in our culture.  While football is a team game, the perception of every players individual efforts (not just the QB) are also highly colored by winning and losing.  If at mid-season the Bills are 7-1 and Oliver is playing in the games, peoples individual evaluation of him will be much better than if the Bills are 1-7.   
 

 

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I was somewhat surprised to hear that, too. But keep in mind, They played Thursday night and had him on Friday. Not a lot of time for him to analyze, what, 11 games that were played on Thursday night? And have super detailed answers?

 

I think he's really great at breaking this stuff down. Love his take each week.

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Interesting ...

 

 

 

 

Do we believe Baldy or Cosell? 

Double Teamed multiple times in the game and he managed to produce. 

 

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8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I enjoy listening to the old and wise Greg Cosell breaking down the Bills with The Murph on One Bills Live.

 

I saw that he was on the show last Friday to evaluate the Bills in the preseason opener so i took a listen.

 

To my surprise he was no high on Ed Oliver’s debut.  He said he “struggled” for most of his plays especially when facing double teams.  He also said that Eddie needs to develop “perfect technique” in the NFL because he is too small to take on double teams.  

 

I watched the game and this was not the impression I came away with.  I did see Ed get taken out by Quentin Nelson a few times but he is an All-Pro and one of the best.  I was very impressed by his debut, as were many Bills beat writers and it makes me wonder whether Greg really watched all of Ed’s plays of just the few where he was rendered ineffective by Nelson.

 

As for the rest, Greg seemed somewhat reserved.  He mentioned some good things but also didn’t seem too impressed.  Even Murph was like “I feel pretty good about the Bills.”  But Greg did say, it’s important not to take away too much from the preseason - so maybe that’s why.   

 

He is high on Daryl Johnson.  This he can be a good edge rusher in the NFL.

 

Thinks Josh made some good throws but also missed a few others he should have had.   That pass to Zay Jones could have gotten him walloped.  Says he needs to work on that.

 

Liked Cody Ford’s debut.  Believes that the coaching staff is trying to find the 5 best lineman which is why they are moving him around.  

 

Thinks Vosean Joseph moves well but is a little small and thinks he’ll play behind Matt Milano and will have a tough time getting on the field behind him. (Greg actually talked about him and then 5 minutes later Tasker said “what did you think about Vosean Joseph?”  forcing Greg to repeat what he said earlier LOL).

 

Said Tyree Jackson struggled big time as well and has a ton of work to do.  

 

Puts over Singletary’s hard running, vision and patience but questions whether he can be a “power runner” due to his small size.  

 

https://app.radio.com/hiQaUPmN6Y

 

RE: the bolded portion - I completely disagree with this perspective. Primarily because that's a WR's job - to go across the field and make the catch. Now, I don't blame Zay for dropping it in terms of being bent out of shape about it, but I absolutely think Josh put the ball where it needed to be. It was a middle of the field throw through traffic right at the goal line, and it's the WR's job to make that catch, absorb the hit and hold the ball. If this were a wide open field and he "led" the receiver into a hit, then I can agree. But in the Red Zone and trying to fit that ball right at the goal line with no open field in front of the receiver, this is what a QB does. Has the league become so squishy that it can't even acknowledge that WRs make catches in the middle of the field with the threat of getting hit and then getting hit? What's next? A QB has to walk the ball to the WR and tap on the rear and tell him go slowly toward the end zone? 

 

For the rest of it, I can't say I agree except where Josh was rusty and made some early game jitter mistakes, but I think he really started to get into a nice groove before he left the game. Also, it was Ed's first game going against one of the best O-linemen in the NFL and Cosell says he struggled against double-teams....you don't say? Tempered expectations from me for Ed, and I don't expect him to be this game changing force right out of the gate, but to say Ed didn't have a solid to promising debut, would be failing to take the whole situation into context, IMO. All of the other thoughts seem "safe" to me....not much insight and just about anything one of us paying attention could articulate. 

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4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Interesting ...

 

 

 

 

Do we believe Baldy or Cosell? 

Double Teamed multiple times in the game and he managed to produce. 

 


Does it matter?  Oliver will be a starter regardless.  If he succeeds or struggles in real games, no one will be saying "we knew this from the first pre-season game"

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39 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

No one should expect him to be the next Donald.  And the summary by Cosell goes beyond, "he ain't no Aaron Donald."

 

But saying that his size is a concern when the best DT in football is the same size, to me, is silly.

 

Some Bills fans are upset because what was described is not an accurate representation of what actually happened. 

 

 

Donald is quite the exception.

33 minutes ago, teef said:

How do you feel about the show MacGyver?  MacGyver seems like a show you would really enjoy. Any truth to that?

 

I got warned for spamming the other day, and asked if pizza talk was spam and never got an answer.  How is this post not spam?

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Element115 said:

 

 

 

I got warned for spamming the other day, and asked if pizza talk was spam and never got an answer.  How is this post not spam?

i happen to be very good friends with richard dean anderson.  after watching the preseason game, he shared similar ideas to you when concerning oliver.  just wondered if it was a coincidence, or there really was a connection to the actor.  all bills related.

Edited by teef
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10 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Interesting ...

 

 

 

 

Do we believe Baldy or Cosell? 

I'd go with Baldy.  He played OL so he has a better perspective on OL/DL play.  Oliver held his own against Nelson.  Some good plays by both players.  

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18 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:


Does it matter?  Oliver will be a starter regardless.  If he succeeds or struggles in real games, no one will be saying "we knew this from the first pre-season game"

 

not particularly.  

 

I was merely posting an opposing view to Cosell's 

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Posted (edited)

What’s with this new buzz word “bias” come on people, it’s silly, it started the media, and now it’s on football message boards. 

 

Bias=opinion 

 

Every human being that has ever lived was/is bias on virtually everything they see say or do. “Bias” is the latest buzz word on social media, and is heavily over used. For Christ sake enough,  Thank you 🙏Rant over.

 

Ed Oliver will be fine regardless of people’s opinions.

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited by Don Otreply

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No idea how any blame could be put on Josh on that Zay drop.

 

It was a fine throw and as quick a release as you could ask from him. If Zay catches that he isn't getting popped, IMO.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No idea how any blame could be put on Josh on that Zay drop.

 

It was a fine throw and as quick a release as you could ask from him. If Zay catches that he isn't getting popped, IMO.

other than getting hit by 2 guys ... 

 

what could happen.  

 

That play was IMO the only Dropped pass by Zay.  The other two were off 

Edited by ShadyBillsFan

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3 hours ago, Element115 said:

 

I watched Baldy's breakdown and he basically said Oliver was stonewalled all night.  I think fan reaction to anything negative about Oliver is just a bit over the top.  He's undersized, and so far it shows. Lets see what happens the next game! 

you need to go watch that again because that is not even close to what he said...  

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