HOUSE Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) The 2019 NFL draft has come and gone. As there is year after year, draft analysts attach their takes to prospects and claim themselves to be experts at grinding the film. Of this breed, none are more well-known than ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay. The duo sit front and center at the center of all things NFL draft, year after year. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don’t. Prior to this year’s draft which concluded on Saturday, the famous pair got into a candid disagreement during an appearance on Barstool Sports podcast Pardon My Take. While previewing this past weekend’s event, Kiper and McShay were asked who was the prospect the two had disagreed on most over years. Notre Dame quarterbacks Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn were brought up in a first mention, before Kiper flipped the script a bit. In a bit of a tongue-and-cheek sort of way, Kiper mentioned Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen, who played at a smaller college program compared to others in Wyoming. Here’s a transcript of how their brief disagreement went: Host Dan “Big Cat” Katz: What’s the guy you guys have disagreed on the most? Kiper: The most? McShay: The two Notre Dame quarterbacks are up there. Kiper: …He hated Josh Allen last year. McShay: I didn’t, I introduced you to Josh Allen. Kiper: Oh, give me a break… McShay: I did his conference championship the year before… Kiper: …Oh, wow… McShay: …You didn’t even know who he was, Kiper. Kiper: Wow, oh… but you hated him, so you must not have liked anything you saw if that’s the case. McShay: I had him as like the seventh or eighth best player in the draft, you’re out of your mind. Kiper: Yeah, yeah, but yeah… OK. Go back…Hey guys, go back to some of the little commentary from Mr. McShay… Todd, Todd, Todd, when Josh Allen and… you’ll see what I’m talking about… OK, I had to defend the guy to the hill, the entire way through the process when everybody was beatin’ up Josh Allen, I defended him and here we are, franchise quarterback. McShay: … It’s not even worth it anymore. https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/29/espn-mel-kiper-todd-mcshay-argue-who-know-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-first/ Edited May 2, 2019 by HOUSE 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Maybe they should just fight to the death. 5 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Maybe they should just fight to the death. thunderdome has been coming up a lot around here lately. we really should look into it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 McShay is a little two faced. PMT is all about Josh Allen, so McShay played up his Josh Allen love. The other day, though, McShay laughed at Kiper for thinking Josh Allen was a good NFL quarterback. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, teef said: thunderdome has been coming up a lot around here lately. we really should look into it. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: McShay is a little two faced. PMT is all about Josh Allen, so McShay played up his Josh Allen love. The other day, though, McShay laughed at Kiper for thinking Josh Allen was a good NFL quarterback. right. this is exactly what I was thinking as well..... he quite literally scoffed at kipers notion that allen would be a good qb in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, HOUSE said: The 2019 NFL draft has come and gone. As there is year after year, draft analysts attach their takes to prospects and claim themselves to be experts at grinding the film. Of this breed, none are more well-known than ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay. The duo sit front and center at the center of all things NFL draft, year after year. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don’t. Prior to this year’s draft which concluded on Saturday, the famous pair got into a candid disagreement during an appearance on Barstool Sports podcast Pardon My Take. While previewing this past weekend’s event, Kiper and McShay were asked who was the prospect the two had disagreed on most over years. Notre Dame quarterbacks Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn were brought up in a first mention, before Kiper flipped the script a bit. In a bit of a tongue-and-cheek sort of way, Kiper mentioned Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen, who played at a smaller college program compared to others in Wyoming. Here’s a transcript of how their brief disagreement went: Host Dan “Big Cat” Katz: What’s the guy you guys have disagreed on the most? Kiper: The most? McShay: The two Notre Dame quarterbacks are up there. Kiper: …He hated Josh Allen last year. McShay: I didn’t, I introduced you to Josh Allen. Kiper: Oh, give me a break… McShay: I did his conference championship the year before… Kiper: …Oh, wow… McShay: …You didn’t even know who he was, Kiper. Kiper: Wow, oh… but you hated him, so you must not have liked anything you saw if that’s the case. McShay: I had him as like the seventh or eighth best player in the draft, you’re out of your mind. Kiper: Yeah, yeah, but yeah… OK. Go back…Hey guys, go back to some of the little commentary from Mr. McShay… Todd, Todd, Todd, when Josh Allen and… you’ll see what I’m talking about… OK, I had to defend the guy to the hill, the entire way through the process when everybody was beatin’ up Josh Allen, I defended him and here we are, franchise quarterback. McShay: … It’s not even worth it anymore. https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/29/espn-mel-kiper-todd-mcshay-argue-who-know-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-first/ Ah, the dear, sweet sound of revisionist history, when applied to the Buffalo Bills... I'm looking forward to more and more of this, as the pedants... oh, I meant pundits, sorry... realize they were WRONG! #gobills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I don't like either of those guys, very pretentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 The fact that they are fighting over who recognized JA first is the best compliment JA can receive from the media. Reading between the lines, it shows that they think JA is going to be a future star.They want to be able to say "I told you so" later. This is about preserving their own scouting legacy! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: McShay is a little two faced. PMT is all about Josh Allen, so McShay played up his Josh Allen love. The other day, though, McShay laughed at Kiper for thinking Josh Allen was a good NFL quarterback. Maybe McShay went back and reviewed the tape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, teef said: thunderdome has been coming up a lot around here lately. we really should look into it. We could have a pinned thread called "Insult Corner" and just let it rip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Maybe McShay went back and reviewed the tape? The PMT interview was done first. Honestly, the worst part was McShay talking all that trash all the while admitting he hadn't watch every snap Josh Allen played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 You know you've reached peak overexposure when the mock drafters are celebrities still in the news weeks after the event. There are days where I legitimately wish for an old-school draft on television. Just a bunch of people at a bunch of tables with phones, walking picks up to a Commissioner in some hotel ballroom .No draft shows, no draft "experts", no 300,000 people. I think it'd actually be more suspensful without the Kiper and McShay blabber for six months leading up to the event. In the alternative, have a draft where once the pick is announced, the GM has to explain "why" they picked the player to the fans. It would be must see tv watching Dave Gettleman up at the podium sweating through a tangent of explaination for picking Daniel Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 it's funny cause they called kiper out for his clausen retirement call which i had never heard kiper talk about before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) McShay is a joke. His evaluation on QBs can almost be guaranteed to be wrong. Kiper isn't perfect, but he absolutely puts in the effort and does the best he can. I'll listen to Kiper. McShay should have been let go years ago Edited May 2, 2019 by Captain Hindsight 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Maybe they should just fight to the death. Yes! Hopefully they'd "tie"... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 "Todd, Todd, Todd...!" 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) Mel Kiper liked Josh Allen during his junior year. Todd McShay liked him also but he attached to many red flags and once said he could slip to the 2nd round And that's the way it was in February 2018..... Edited May 2, 2019 by HOUSE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhit34 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 A good friend of mine worked for Kiper for over 10 years. Some of those years he was in Kiper's ear during the draft. Mel knows a lot but his staff, which numbers over 10, does the work, they are the guys that go out to scout, do the research and the evaluations. It was alway fascinating to talk to my friend about how they size up prospects. His staff are really the brains of the organization though my friend told me Mel has an amazing memory. Mel also treats his people really well. My friend was in charge of profiling the top 100 players and top 20 programs. One of the most interesting things with him: we were at a Syracuse basketball game and in the middle of the first half my buddy says to us, "watch the players over the next 5 minutes and tell me which one could play TE in the NFL and why." 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Kiper is ok He can be annoying but he started all this and is the original. If he's wrong he typically wont backpedal he will take the lumps. McShay is like a politician. He will go along with what is the popular take than minute and backslide at the drop of a hat. I refuse to believe he know anything about football He's a media creation I'd take more stock in what the beer vendor has to say 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Maybe they should just fight to the death. 3 hours ago, teef said: thunderdome has been coming up a lot around here lately. we really should look into it. Jim Rome is good at staging fake fights Right Chrissy ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, jwhit34 said: A good friend of mine worked for Kiper for over 10 years. Some of those years he was in Kiper's ear during the draft. Mel knows a lot but his staff, which numbers over 10, does the work, they are the guys that go out to scout, do the research and the evaluations. It was alway fascinating to talk to my friend about how they size up prospects. His staff are really the brains of the organization though my friend told me Mel has an amazing memory. Mel also treats his people really well. My friend was in charge of profiling the top 100 players and top 20 programs. One of the most interesting things with him: we were at a Syracuse basketball game and in the middle of the first half my buddy says to us, "watch the players over the next 5 minutes and tell me which one could play TE in the NFL and why." Of course he has a team of scouts. Did you think we thought he scouts every player himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 They should have their own show. It'd be hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 hours ago, HOUSE said: The 2019 NFL draft has come and gone. As there is year after year, draft analysts attach their takes to prospects and claim themselves to be experts at grinding the film. Of this breed, none are more well-known than ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay. The duo sit front and center at the center of all things NFL draft, year after year. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don’t. Prior to this year’s draft which concluded on Saturday, the famous pair got into a candid disagreement during an appearance on Barstool Sports podcast Pardon My Take. While previewing this past weekend’s event, Kiper and McShay were asked who was the prospect the two had disagreed on most over years. Notre Dame quarterbacks Jimmy Clausen and Brady Quinn were brought up in a first mention, before Kiper flipped the script a bit. In a bit of a tongue-and-cheek sort of way, Kiper mentioned Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen, who played at a smaller college program compared to others in Wyoming. Here’s a transcript of how their brief disagreement went: Host Dan “Big Cat” Katz: What’s the guy you guys have disagreed on the most? Kiper: The most? McShay: The two Notre Dame quarterbacks are up there. Kiper: …He hated Josh Allen last year. McShay: I didn’t, I introduced you to Josh Allen. Kiper: Oh, give me a break… McShay: I did his conference championship the year before… Kiper: …Oh, wow… McShay: …You didn’t even know who he was, Kiper. Kiper: Wow, oh… but you hated him, so you must not have liked anything you saw if that’s the case. McShay: I had him as like the seventh or eighth best player in the draft, you’re out of your mind. Kiper: Yeah, yeah, but yeah… OK. Go back…Hey guys, go back to some of the little commentary from Mr. McShay… Todd, Todd, Todd, when Josh Allen and… you’ll see what I’m talking about… OK, I had to defend the guy to the hill, the entire way through the process when everybody was beatin’ up Josh Allen, I defended him and here we are, franchise quarterback. McShay: … It’s not even worth it anymore. https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/29/espn-mel-kiper-todd-mcshay-argue-who-know-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-first/ Kiper is 100% correct on this - he had Allen as his top QB or 2nd at worst over the pre-draft period. McShay hated him. If McShay wanted to be more honest, he could point out that Kiper didn't like Mayfield, though McShay may not have liked him either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 4 hours ago, HOUSE said: Kiper: …He hated Josh Allen last year. McShay: I didn’t, I introduced you to Josh Allen. Kiper: Oh, give me a break… McShay: I did his conference championship the year before… Kiper: …Oh, wow… McShay: …You didn’t even know who he was, Kiper. Kiper: Wow, oh… but you hated him, so you must not have liked anything you saw if that’s the case. McShay: I had him as like the seventh or eighth best player in the draft, you’re out of your mind. It's almost as if people don't realize that there's video evidence and a written record of them saying things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I dislike both of these guys, but Kiper did predict Allen would be drafted #1 overall http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=22941605 and for some funny ready and a walk down memory lane: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2760376-bills-trade-up-to-draft-josh-allen-after-qb-apologized-for-racist-tweets Some of the tweets are just silly. If you read down at the bottom Mayock had Allen as the #2 QB in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, BobChalmers said: Kiper is 100% correct on this - he had Allen as his top QB or 2nd at worst over the pre-draft period. McShay hated him. If McShay wanted to be more honest, he could point out that Kiper didn't like Mayfield, though McShay may not have liked him either? That is false and Kiper is kind of lying when he says Mcshay hated him every single McShay Mock and big board had Allen in the top 10 overall Darnold 4, Allen 8, Rosen 9, Baker 14 he hated Allen so much he had him 8th overall in the draft Edited May 2, 2019 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I'm always defending Kiper. It's not that I like him so much, more that what he does is very hard to get right even 50% of the time. People say "let's see him be a GM". But how many GMs get it right? Even good GMs end up cutting a huge amount of their draft picks over time. All I really pay attention to with Kiper is when he's reeling off all the stats and facts about a college player, because he's like an encyclopedia of that stuff. Whether he thinks a guy will succeed or not I don't really pay attention to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Neither one of them played one down of football but they think they know everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, ALLEN1QB said: Neither one of them played one down of football but they think they know everything Kinda like this forum. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said: I'm always defending Kiper. It's not that I like him so much, more that what he does is very hard to get right even 50% of the time. People say "let's see him be a GM". But how many GMs get it right? Even good GMs end up cutting a huge amount of their draft picks over time. All I really pay attention to with Kiper is when he's reeling off all the stats and facts about a college player, because he's like an encyclopedia of that stuff. Whether he thinks a guy will succeed or not I don't really pay attention to. I think he is spot on 80% of the time but a poor system can destroy almost any good player. Jerry Hughes is a good example. Highly rated at draft time but below average with the Colts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 draw a circle and tie a rope to both their ankles put all kinds of weapons at the edge of the circle. When the whistle blows.. To the death... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 ...can't we just pack them both away now until next year?.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, eball said: Kinda like this forum. In my defense I was a stud in little loop ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 This actually cracks me up. I hope Allen does so well this year that the rest of the pundits start tripping over themselves trying to revise their doom to luke-warm predictions. Say what you want about Kiper, but he does not always follow the herd and takes some chances and heat for his opinions. I can respect that, even if he is waay off some times. Then you have McShay of the play it safe herd-mentality trying to backtrack...ahhhh the sweet aroma of crow for dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) Mel Kiper went after Todd McShay during the draft grading over Josh Allen. 33:28 Edited May 2, 2019 by Boca BIlls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 6 hours ago, WhoTom said: It's almost as if people don't realize that there's video evidence and a written record of them saying things. You mean like when a cop does something questionable when he and his partner both have their body cams on and the dash cam is recording as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 12 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Jim Rome is good at staging fake fights Right Chrissy ???? I bet you won't call me chris again....I bet I do....Chris. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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