Kangaxx Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Interested to hear what he would need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2218 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Not a skeptic per se, keeping my optimism in check for now. I will admit he had a better season than I expected given that our O line wasn’t that great. That being said, you can’t help but wonder how he would have fared if he had the O line Taylor had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Josh Rosen. 2 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, APoxOnYou said: Interested to hear what he would need to do. Well, I'm on the record that overall, for a QB to be a guy a franchise can win with consistently, he has to complete >59% of his passes, have a TD/INT ratio of 1.5, throw for 6.5 YPA, and generally be able to pass for more than ~215-220 ypg. So that's what I need to see Allen deliver on a regular basis. Note: not saying he sucks now or has to do all that next year, but that's what he needs to deliver. For the eyeball test part, he needs to read the field better and use his athleticism to help him pass, rather than to run so much. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 For me his completion percentage be up around mid 60's. He needs to be more of a pocket passer with a lot less rushing yards. If he has a season close to what Mayfield had in his second half would be what he needs to have to convince me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 For most skeptics, a Lombardi or two might do the trick. I guess I wouldn't say I'm skeptical about Josh. He looked pretty sharp for a rookie, he seems to have a good attitude, and he's coachable. That makes me optimistic. But I've been burned before, so I'm cautiously optimistic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Bigfoot riding a unicorn. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, WhoTom said: For most skeptics, a Lombardi or two might do the trick. I guess I wouldn't say I'm skeptical about Josh. He looked pretty sharp for a rookie, he seems to have a good attitude, and he's coachable. That makes me optimistic. But I've been burned before, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I disagree. it doesn't take a SB victory for skeptics to believe a QB is a franchise guy. it takes consistency and/or improvement each year. I think for most skeptics, it takes being in the running for MVP or even just being the guy who can keep your team competitive every year. There are plenty of QBs that skeptics are bought into that haven't won or even been to a SB. Luck, Stafford, Alex Smith, Dalton, and Rivers to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoudyBills Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 JUST WIN BABY!!!! 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, APoxOnYou said: Interested to hear what he would need to do. Get praise for his passing and not his athleticism...for starters. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 The play he made in the finale where he was scrambling but threw a perfect touch pass to his checkdown that allowed Ivory to keep running is something I'd like to see more frequently. I think he's going to have to improve on his ball placement on short routes to be a franchise QB. I've seen him throw deep outs accurately. I've seen him throw accurate enough deep balls. Needs to get better at short crosses, outlets. There are times he doesn't get the ball to the outlet quickly enough so recognition also needs to improve. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Circlethewagon8404 said: I disagree. it doesn't take a SB victory for skeptics to believe a QB is a franchise guy. it takes consistency and/or improvement each year. I think for most skeptics, it takes being in the running for MVP or even just being the guy who can keep your team competitive every year. There are plenty of QBs that skeptics are bought into that haven't won or even been to a SB. Luck, Stafford, Alex Smith, Dalton, and Rivers to name a few. I was half-joking about that part. But you have to admit, a couple of Super Bowl wins would convince the skeptics. (So would all the stuff you wrote.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 He needs to build the wall so this government shutdown can end. Only then will I be a believer in him as our franchise QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Some of the skeptics will complain that the team only averaged 23 points in his three super bowl wins, and that the Bills would have probably won 4 super bowls with Josh Rosen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Offensive league MVP or Super Bowl MVP (I will take the later personally!!!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jrb1979 said: For me his completion percentage be up around mid 60's. He needs to be more of a pocket passer with a lot less rushing yards. If he has a season close to what Mayfield had in his second half would be what he needs to have to convince me. Mid 60’s? Next year I’ll be happy if it’s high 50’s. Edited January 16, 2019 by Jay_Fixit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said: The play he made in the finale where he was scrambling but threw a perfect touch pass to his checkdown that allowed Ivory to keep running is something I'd like to see more frequently. I think he's going to have to improve on his ball placement on short routes to be a franchise QB. I've seen him throw deep outs accurately. I've seen him throw accurate enough deep balls. Needs to get better at short crosses, outlets. There are times he doesn't get the ball to the outlet quickly enough so recognition also needs to improve. I wonder if that scramble dump off to Ivory was coincidence or a designed breakdown play. i ask because when watching highlights of Allen in 2018. Allen/Ivory pulled off near identical play against Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 One of these with 2019-20 engraved on it... Seriously I love Josh.. he is here to stay I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Do yourselves a favor and let the Josh Allen skeptics debate die. Its a waste of breath and in the end it's meaningless anyway. He was a good pick, he's fun to watch. It was him, Lamar or Rosen. We made the right call. Next topic.... 6 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I'm going to go with nothing. If you're not excited at this point nothing is going to satisfy but proof. I mean sure, some might remain unconvinced as they should be of a rookie, but he's definitely shown enough for any "fan" to be optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 5 hours ago, WhoTom said: I was half-joking about that part. But you have to admit, a couple of Super Bowl wins would convince the skeptics. (So would all the stuff you wrote.) Isn't that why we got him? The guy we had couldn't so we had to tank and trade up to get him. He needs to pass better. He needs to run less. Most importantly, when the game is tight at the end, he needs to figure out a way to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Simple. Win the division, conference and title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 End the drought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I want to see a big improvement on pre snap recognition and hitting his dump offs when needed. If he does just these two things his completion pct starts to float around 60%, his yardage goes for around 220-240 a game and we probably win 10-12 games next year. Also I’d like for him to slide earlier. Extra 4 yards when you’ve already broken the first down marker and risking a hit isn’t as important as important as staying healthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Work on the short passing game. Throw those slants that allows WR and RBs to gain yards after catch Make clutch throws to keep drives alive HoF QBs like Brady, Brees, Ben and Rodgers - This is what they do well and really WELL!!!! He really has to work on the 1st two. If gets to move the chains the big plays will come. A lot of time his throws were good enough to be caught but the catcher couldn't gain any further yards due to the positioning of the football. This has to change for him to become an effective passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I don't care what his completion percentage is if he is winning games. I am open to the possibility that more than one kind of QB can succeed in the NFL and that Josh Allen may be such a unique talent that you have to throw out the cookie-cutter stats in determining his value. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 49 minutes ago, Mickey said: I don't care what his completion percentage is if he is winning games. I am open to the possibility that more than one kind of QB can succeed in the NFL and that Josh Allen may be such a unique talent that you have to throw out the cookie-cutter stats in determining his value. If a QB only completed 50% of his throws, but those completions are for 20+ yards, aren't you better off than hitting 75% of piddly dump offs? 9 hours ago, Bangarang said: He needs to build the wall so this government shutdown can end. Only then will I be a believer in him as our franchise QB. Naw. He'd just leap over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I don't think anyone can be fully bought into Josh Allen at this point after not even a 16 games of work. I would say the same thing for all the other 2018 rookie qbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, I'm on the record that overall, for a QB to be a guy a franchise can win with consistently, he has to complete >59% of his passes, have a TD/INT ratio of 1.5, throw for 6.5 YPA, and generally be able to pass for more than ~215-220 ypg. So that's what I need to see Allen deliver on a regular basis. Note: not saying he sucks now or has to do all that next year, but that's what he needs to deliver. For the eyeball test part, he needs to read the field better and use his athleticism to help him pass, rather than to run so much. I'm good with the occasional scrambles for first downs, but i agree. Most of his big plays this year were with his legs not his arm. Need to see him buy time and find that receiver on the sideline etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalothruMyVeins Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 40 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: If a QB only completed 50% of his throws, but those completions are for 20+ yards, aren't you better off than hitting 75% of piddly dump offs? As far as the pure math of it goes, than yes, averaging 10 yards per completion and completing 30 throws per game is a good number. However, if you're inaccurate at 20 yards downfield, which everyone is more inaccurate on a 20 yard throw vs a 5 yard throw, as I see it, it does 2 things: 1. Much higher chance of interceptions, inaccurately throwing the ball that deep into the secondary. You can have your 30 completion, 300 yard game, but if you add 3 INTs to that game, you won't win more that 30% of those games. 2. Having short-to-midrange accuracy in the passing game is incredibly effective in wearing out a defense, vs all of the shots being taken 20+ yards downfield. If you are going somewhat deep every time, eventually you will run into a defense that will be able to stop most of those passes, and you will be ending the 1st half 6-17 for 48 yards, which is what we did on offense for almost the whole 2/3 of this season. If teams know they have to defend shallow routes with the same veracity that they have to defend deep routes, than both the running game and the deep passing game open up, but most importantly, the team keeps clicking off 1st downs, and stays on the field. I don't know exactly what the league standard number is, or what Allen's current number is, but I feel like if Allen can get his completion percentage on passes 5-15 yards from the LoS to be >65%, maybe even 70%, just on those throws in particular, I know we have a keeper. All of the 4th quarter comebacks, all of the yards/game, that will all come, if he can execute at this rate, I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlonce Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) He can do nothing. True skeptics will always find something wrong with his game. There are people who are on the fence with him. Those are not skeptics. Jim Kelly had true skeptics. They were the people clamoring to start Frank Reich. Its what people do. Edited January 16, 2019 by dlonce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drf1835 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Bangarang said: He needs to build the wall so this government shutdown can end. Only then will I be a believer in him as our franchise QB. The only wall we need is the Stadium Wall. Now, if Josh could throw a couple of darts to the southeast at certain person's orange and turtle heads, I would be his fan forever regardless how he plays in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I like the kid. I think he'll get better with experience. As with most young QBs the game needs to slow down for him, so he can make quicker reads, get the ball out quicker, make the right decisions such as dumping the ball off quicker when warranted. I have no issues with his mechanics; he needs to be more precise on passes but when given time he shows good accuracy and precision. When he has a more solid O line and better WRs it will help. One thing about the question posed by the OP though. It presupposes skeptics want to but in. I think that's probably true form most in that category. But if one reads posts around here with any degree of regularity it is clear there are some here that would prefer Allen fail so they can sit on this site and crow about how they were right. Which is just sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, I'm on the record that overall, for a QB to be a guy a franchise can win with consistently, he has to complete >59% of his passes, have a TD/INT ratio of 1.5, throw for 6.5 YPA, and generally be able to pass for more than ~215-220 ypg. So that's what I need to see Allen deliver on a regular basis. Note: not saying he sucks now or has to do all that next year, but that's what he needs to deliver. For the eyeball test part, he needs to read the field better and use his athleticism to help him pass, rather than to run so much. Noticed you said nothing about wins. Do you just want to see better box scores? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 hours ago, whatdrought said: Josh Rosen. Bueller? "Wrong"Josh? Bueller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Consistency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 By year 3. 65% 4000yds 25td 12 int. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: Noticed you said nothing about wins. Do you just want to see better box scores? " For a QB to be a guy a franchise can win with consistently " appears to say something about wins. Football is a team game. Above a certain threshold of QB'ing, whether or not a team wins depends more upon the other 41 players on the field. People are like "Foles magic came to an end on Sunday." Iggles wouldn't have been where they needed Foles magic late in the 4Q if they hadn't been letting NO convert 3rd-and-forever and drive up and down the field multiple times all freakin' game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Bangarang said: He needs to build the wall so this government shutdown can end. Only then will I be a believer in him as our franchise QB. Not sure he has the political chops to do that quite yet...........but once built, he could jump OVER said wall, so we have that going for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Isn't that why we got him? The guy we had couldn't so we had to tank and trade up to get him. He needs to pass better. He needs to run less. Most importantly, when the game is tight at the end, he needs to figure out a way to win. He already did what was necessary for a come back win: he just needed Clay to catch the ball in the Miami end zone. I was at the game and saw Clay's pathetic effort right in front of me. Allen did his job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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