ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

[uticaclub]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

But to get Mahomes production, you probably need the KC coaching staff and offensive personnel. Bring him into the situation Allen played under as a raw rookie and you're not going to hear talk of MVP.

You're probably right, but right now we're all hoping that Allen can be as good Mahomes is right now. Mahomes would probably have done terrible here in Buffalo and JP Losman might still be playing if another team drafted him. No one can know, it's a fun debate

[gordong]

Pass...  I'll take three for one any Day...   And Lets see what Both QB do in the years that follow...  Their QB has been fantastic, Let's see it in the playoffs now. as well as next year after some teams have tape on him. Allen same thing, he could turn into a bust, average, or a better than Mahomes.

 

   saying that we would make that trade after 16 games is just dumb as hell. besides does anyone think Mahomes is anything close to what we see KC, HERE? ???   NO  

[Tenhigh]

58 minutes ago, Philo Beddoe said:

 

This is the most rational take, IMO. 

 

Its weird how few people understand the concept that it's not always a winner and a loser when it comes to a trade.   

[Dr. Who]

Just now, uticaclub said:

You're probably right, but right now we're all hoping that Allen can be as good Mahomes is right now. Mahomes would probably have done terrible here in Buffalo and JP Losman might still be playing if another team drafted him. No one can know, it's a fun debate

I understand. It's fun so long as folks remember the contextual variables that make it a more complicated assessment of counter-factuals than a comparison of "objective facts." And of course, a snapshot now may look quite different with a few more years of historical data, and even then, the "what if" game can never undo the basic reality that distinct particulars interact in incalculable ways. There's no doubt many likely scenarios where Tom Brady is drafted by a different team and washes out of the league.

[dezertbill]

Thats a ridiculous statement to make.

 

First of all, all four are early in their career.

 

Secondly, Mahomes rookie year he played in one meaningless game.  Allen and Edmunds rookie seasons have shown they are already proven leaders and are further along in their growth than Mahomes was last year.

 

Allen, Edmunds, and White are the future leaders of this team.  The thought of trading all three for one player due to a player's single year is a joke, and a simple case of a media person trying to get clicks.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Or should we also rehash Tom Brady's infamous slide down the draft boards, making every single team in the league look silly, including the Pats, until they took a flyer on him towards the end of the draft? Isn't that an even more egregious example than Mahomes? 

It is against the rules to do that on the Exclusive Suckup P*triots Network.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Josh Allen-?

Zay Jones-Good Slot WR

Tremaine Edmunds-?

Tre'Davious White-Elite CB

 

Man we need Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds to be stars

[billsfan89]

Mahomes would not be Mahomes without his supporting cast, maybe he would still be a dam fine QB but his insane levels of production were made possible by both his abilities, supporting cast, and coaching staff.

[Stank_Nasty]

42 minutes ago, wppete said:

Can you imagine Josh Allen in KC with all those weapons??? (Especially before Hunt got released) 

The media would be freaking out. Best QB ever hahaha

 

 

I believe 100% that if allen had the support of KC's run game, the players going up and getting area code balls for him like Kelce and hill did all year he would have been rookie of the year.

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

But to get Mahomes production, you probably need the KC coaching staff and offensive personnel. Bring him into the situation Allen played under as a raw rookie and you're not going to hear talk of MVP.

Mahomes probably isn’t throwing 50 TD passes in BUF this year, so there would be no MVP talk. Allen went 5-5 as a starter with poor passing numbers mostly. Is it crazy to think that Mahomes superior play could have made the 6-10 Bills a 9-7 or even 10-6 playoff team ? I don’t think it is. While Mahomes wouldn’t have the caliber of team or coaching that he has in KC, it’s apparent watching him that he’s a transcendent talent that does things you cannot and even wouldn’t coach a player to do on a football field. I hope Allen turns out to be the franchise QB the Bills have been waiting for, but he isn’t Mahomes. 

[DCOrange]

27 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

OK, but if the Bills had drafted Mahomes in 2017, sat him last year and started him this past season, do you think he'd have even been in the discussion for MVP right now.   

 

Prescott looked pretty amazing as a rookie to, imagine what he'll be when he gains experience they were saying.  3 seasons later he's no better, maybe even worse at least statistically.

 

I think your latter point is more important in reference to Allen honestly. Progression isn't a linear thing. Allen looked promising as a rookie IMO, though still easily below average compared to all starting QBs; you're counting on him progressing to become anywhere near the player that Mahomes is right now and that progression isn't something that we can safely assume will happen.

 

If Mahomes simply plateaus at his current playing ability, he's a future hall of famer and perennial MVP candidate.

 

Do I think Mahomes would be the same player he is today if Buffalo had drafted him instead? It's hard to really say; personally, I had Mahomes pegged as the best QB prospect since maybe Andrew Luck (possibly beneath Jameis/Mariota instead, but I can't say that with certainty as I didn't assign number grades back then. Suffice to say, I always believed Mahomes had the goods to be an elite QB so while I'm certainly a bit shocked at how quickly he's ascended there, I think he had that potential regardless of where he was drafted and I think his playstyle allows him to rely less on the talent around him than most QBs do (I'd argue this is the case with Allen too btw). He probably wouldn't be in the MVP conversation if he were in Buffalo because his numbers likely wouldn't be as good, but I think he might still be an elite QB with MVP potential if Buffalo were able to add a couple more pieces.

Edited January 10, 2019 by DCOrange

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, dezertbill said:

Thats a ridiculous statement to make.

 

First of all, all four are early in their career.

 

Secondly, Mahomes rookie year he played in one meaningless game.  Allen and Edmunds rookie seasons have shown they are already proven leaders and are further along in their growth than Mahomes was last year.

 

Allen, Edmunds, and White are the future leaders of this team.  The thought of trading all three for one player due to a player's single year is a joke, and a simple case of a media person trying to get clicks.

The writer didn’t say anything about the Bills trading Allen. It was White, Jones, Edmunds. 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

I mean, Mahomes is about to be named the MVP in his first season as a starter; I think the writer is probably correct that Buffalo would take that in retrospect.

It would be silly to deny it.  Of course they would.

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

I hope not

 

 

As I and Boatdrinks posted.............the OP is claiming something was said that was not.........misleading title,  perhaps to rouse the rabble.

 

Allen has nothing to do with the Mahomes trade.

 

He was acquired with the Bills own 2018 #1 pick and other picks acquired in other trades.

 

Edmunds was acquired with the Chiefs 2018 first rounder(plus the pick acquired for Tyrod).

 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Of course the Bills would make this trade. Mahomes is the most valuable and most dynamic player in the league right now, -- a generational talent. An equally good question to ask: would KC make this trade? The answer is never. 

 

I kind of like to see more than one year out of a player before proclaiming him a generational talent.

 

Not at all to dis on Mahomes, who is looking truly amazing right now.  But for various reasons, there are a number of players who start in the league with a ticket punched to "amazingland" and who don't arrive or stay there long term.

[corta765]

This is why hindsight is 20/20 and why I hate people who do not look at the overall perspective.

 

Yes in hindsight the Bills would absolutely rather have Mahomes as would I he is the damn NFL MVP this year. BUT at the time people still wanted to give Tyrod one last go and many NFL analysts ripped Buffalo for cutting Tyrod after the playoffs. So it's a complete farce because the same people who say Buffalo would right now trade those guys for Mahomes are the same who thought Buffalo should've kept Tyrod and built around him.

 

Gilmore I wanted to keep although I think he held back his last year due to injury. I think he is a very good player who at times can be great which happened this year which non surprisingly is with a marquee NFL team so of course he has more attention. That said CB's all can be beaten and he has numerous times so whatever. Overall I have no hard feelings with the guy I think fans underappreciated him and we have Tre now who fits what McD wants both talent and person wise so not sure why it's really a topic.

[One Buffalo]

Revisit this in 3-5 years... until then we have no idea.  As so many others have said in the thread, way to early to evaluate this concept.  

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Mahomes probably isn’t throwing 50 TD passes in BUF this year, so there would be no MVP talk. Allen went 5-5 as a starter with poor passing numbers mostly. Is it crazy to think that Mahomes superior play could have made the 6-10 Bills a 9-7 or even 10-6 playoff team ? I don’t think it is. While Mahomes wouldn’t have the caliber of team or coaching that he has in KC, it’s apparent watching him that he’s a transcendent talent that does things you cannot and even wouldn’t coach a player to do on a football field. I hope Allen turns out to be the franchise QB the Bills have been waiting for, but he isn’t Mahomes. 

Mahomes got to sit a year, is surrounded by much better talent, and is coached by a fella who is generally considered an elite offensive mind. I'd like to see where Allen is with significant talent upgrades. I'm not bashing Mahomes. I pushed hard in 2017 for the Bills to draft him. I still think the "transcendent talent" label is premature. Let's see how he does in playoffs and with a few more years of history. He may justify such a claim, but I personally think Allen can be a top five qb if all goes well.

[TigerJ]

In hind sight, of course Buffalo should have drafted Mahomes.  Still, there's no guarantee he would have duplicated his KC success in Buffalo.  The circumstances were very different as he would have been pressed into a starting role much sooner with a far inferior supporting cast.  Trading three quality starters, all of whom may have very high ceilings is a completely different issue.  I might not do that trade.

[Southern Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Just going by what the ESPN guy implied in his sentence. He mentioned White, Jones and Edmunds and said they would trade those 3 for Mahomes. Allen wasn’t part of that. 

The article clearly implies Allen since he is the last one mentioned.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Quote

Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

Revisit this in 3-5 years... until then we have no idea.  As so many others have said in the thread, way to early to evaluate this concept.  

That kind of reduces any interest, as by then the outcome would be known. The question is far more interesting now. Would Bills fans ( or management ) trade those three players for Mahomes today? I would. 

[RochesterRob]

  So a writer checks this board periodically and sees people endlessly whining about Mahomes and gives the whiners the validation they seek.  Yawn.  Click. Click. Click and the writer gets a pat on the back from his boss.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Of course the Bills would make this trade. Mahomes is the most valuable and most dynamic player in the league right now, -- a generational talent. An equally good question to ask: would KC make this trade? The answer is never. 

 

 

The OP is asking a question that the writer was not..............Allen was not selected with any assets acquired in the Mahomes trade..............but yeah, you still trade Allen, White and Edmunds for Mahomes..........he's a proven success and likely Dan Marino 2.0.........while Allen is unproven and White and Edmunds will be retired for 8-10 years when Mahomes is still slinging it in the NFL.

 

But I said a week ago.........once the playoffs get rolling all the paths-not-taken(Mahomes/Watson.....Anthony Lynn/Frank Reich) will start being discussed because they are front and center in the postseason and Bills fans aren't going to like it.

 

McBeane have taken a questionable route to their current optimistic mediocrity............the mid-80's Bills kinda' did to when they chose Kelly over Marino........that looked bad for a few years.......but that time it worked out for the best........hopefully this time it does too.   

 

 

 

 

[whatdrought]

Really depends on how Allen turns out. 

 

Right now that’s probably worth the trade, but if Allen is next years Mahomes, it’ll be a whole new story. 

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, sir andrew said:

How does this guy know that the Bills would've taken Mahomes at 10?  Slow news day at the office, I guess.

 

Good point I never thought of that.   Someone should ask Beane who they had there on the board at 10.  He'd probably deadpan and say TreD all along, which may actually be true.

 

I remember right after the college season ended two years ago most mocks had Mahomes in the 3rd round area because he was a scrambler and had some erratic play in college.  Didn't think he was a pocket passer.   

 

Virtually everyone forgets that now, its amazing how the vast majority of NFL fans and network dudes act like they knew all along and the Bills were nuts to pass on Mahomes.

Don't hear anyone from Cinci complaining about taking John Ross instead of Mahomes at 9.   

 

At least we passed on him and got a nice prize to show for it.  Where are the irate Bengals fans?  You picked a bust WR in front of the NFL MVP quarterback.  (Ok he might not be a bust, but in a redraft he goes in the 4th round.  Awful target to catch ratio, probably the worst in the league)

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

The article clearly implies Allen since he is the last one mentioned.

No it doesn’t. It says trade all three before they even mention that the Bills like Allen. Then mentions he was acquired with their own first round pick, as in nothing to do with the Mahomes trade as that deal resulted in White, Jones and Edmunds. 

[mannc]

44 minutes ago, APoxOnYou said:

Tyreek Hill is the most talented player on the Chiefs, not Mahomes. 

 

 

Most talented, but not most valuable.

[CommonCents]

Watson was last seen in Clemson.

 

Mahomes is two days away from being slain by CPT. Andrew.

 

Rivers “why practice in NE when the weather is so nice in California” 

 

If Lynn and that SD/LA group of softies go into Patriot Place and lay down they deserve to be flames. Predictable and foolish.

Edited January 10, 2019 by CommonCents

[Jobot]

Just boggles my mind that people think Mahomes would have an MVP season playing on this team.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, Da webster guy said:

 

Good point I never thought of that.   Someone should ask Beane who they had there on the board at 10.  He'd probably deadpan and say TreD all along, which may actually be true.

 

I remember right after the college season ended two years ago most mocks had Mahomes in the 3rd round area because he was a scrambler and had some erratic play in college.  Didn't think he was a pocket passer.   

 

Virtually everyone forgets that now, its amazing how the vast majority of NFL fans and network dudes act like they knew all along and the Bills were nuts to pass on Mahomes.

Don't hear anyone from Cinci complaining about taking John Ross instead of Mahomes at 9.   

 

At least we passed on him and got a nice prize to show for it.  Where are the irate Bengals fans?  You picked a bust WR in front of the NFL MVP quarterback.  (Ok he might not be a bust, but in a redraft he goes in the 4th round.  Awful target to catch ratio, probably the worst in the league)

  As I recall Mahomes was rated as a mid-second round on down prospect.  Somebody might have had him as a first rounder but it would have been very few "experts" saying that.  The real story should be that Reid knows how to spin wool into gold.  Something I doubt would have happened in Buffalo.

[Jay_Fixit]

KC has a top 5 wide receiver, the best tight end in the NFL, had an up and coming star RB and then really good players like Watkins, Conley and a good O-line.

 

Buffalo has... a bunch of dudes in pads.

 

Yeah, quality work.

[Southern Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

No it doesn’t. It says trade all three before they even mention that the Bills like Allen. Then mentions he was acquired with their own first round pick, as in nothing to do with the Mahomes trade as that deal resulted in White, Jones and Edmunds. 

Bro I think your reading comprehension skills need work. 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

The article clearly implies Allen since he is the last one mentioned.

 

 

No..........you just created a misleading title.

 

If you want to ask that question don't assign blame to a writer for asking it.........just ask it.

 

But make note..........the Bills used THEIR pick in the 2018 draft plus the Watkins pick from the Rams and the move up with the Bengals for Cordy Glenn.

 

The choice was more like Mahomes/Edmunds OR Allen/White/Edmunds.    It wasn't a 3 for 1 it was a 2 for 1.

Edited January 10, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

Good point I never thought of that.   Someone should ask Beane who they had there on the board at 10.  He'd probably deadpan and say TreD all along, which may actually be true.

 

I remember right after the college season ended two years ago most mocks had Mahomes in the 3rd round area because he was a scrambler and had some erratic play in college.  Didn't think he was a pocket passer.   

 

Virtually everyone forgets that now, its amazing how the vast majority of NFL fans and network dudes act like they knew all along and the Bills were nuts to pass on Mahomes.

Don't hear anyone from Cinci complaining about taking John Ross instead of Mahomes at 9.   

 

At least we passed on him and got a nice prize to show for it.  Where are the irate Bengals fans?  You picked a bust WR in front of the NFL MVP quarterback.  (Ok he might not be a bust, but in a redraft he goes in the 4th round.  Awful target to catch ratio, probably the worst in the league)

Better to ask the guys who were here like Whaley and McD. 

[CEN-CAL17]

Dumb!

 

What did Mahomes do his rookie year?

 

Lets let the Bills build up a similar offense talent wise. Mahomes has so much more weapons, better OL etc, second year into the system and in his second year.

 

This is ridiculous on so many levels!!!!

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Bro I think your reading comprehension skills need work. 

Clever retort chap, clever. But you’re wrong. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 hour ago, FLFan said:

In return for the 3 players they have instead?  I think that is hardly obvious.  I would not.

Not a chance I make that trade with the 3 players listed

[Lurker]

Who's ESPN?...

[Boatdrinks]

13 minutes ago, Jobot said:

Just boggles my mind that people think Mahomes would have an MVP season playing on this team.

Does anyone think this ?