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ESPN article says Bills would "obviously trade Allen, Edmunds and White for Mahomes

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Imo, Mahomes is flat out a better qb than Allen was coming out of college.  It wasn’t really close.  

 

What scared me about Allen is he rarely dominate against lesser competition. Mahomes was dominate in college.

 

allen showed flashes but a lot of what we are hoping for is projection because he never has been a dominant qb. I watch Mahomes get 50 tds in both the pros and college.  That means something.

Because they are dumb and Andy Reid knows qbs better than the Bears and other bad teams at the top of the draft.

 

 

 

Wyoming is one of the worst programs in ALL of college football.

 

Allen alone made them competitive. 

 

Mahomes has always had better supporting casts, offensively anyway, as TT's defense with Mahomes was awful, just like Wyoming's.

 

I loved both Allen and Mahomes coming out, but there were serious questions about both.

 

The Allen/Mahomes comparisons are just silly to me because McDermott already made his decision that he liked Allen better.

 

McBeane is going to swim/sink with Allen. No need to even go into the Mahomes factor here.

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37 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

At the time the Bills made the trade, I thought we got fleeced by KC.  We should have gotten four picks in return, at least 2017 and 2018 first and second.  2017 1st and 3rd, and 2018 1st, for KC to jump from 21 to 7, was not enough.  And don't give me your draft pick value bull####.  We handed KC a franchise QB for two late first-round picks and an early third-round pick.  We got boned.   

 

The pick is worth what you can get.  Some years its worth more, some years its worth less.  The draft chart is a guide.  The first overall pick this year is worth farrrr less than, for example, the year Andrew Luck was available. 

 

At the end of the day, they got would they could get to move back.  Its only a bad trade if they could have gotten more.  Do you have any reason to believe they could have gotten more from KC?  If they would have walked away from the deal if we demanded more, would it still look like a bad trade.  

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2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

The pick is worth what you can get.  Some years its worth more, some years its worth less.  The draft chart is a guide.  The first overall pick this year is worth farrrr less than, for example, the year Andrew Luck was available. 

 

At the end of the day, they got would they could get to move back.  Its only a bad trade if they could have gotten more.  Do you have any reason to believe they could have gotten more from KC?  If they would have walked away from the deal if we demanded more, would it still look like a bad trade.  

 

Yes, because I would have picked Mahomes there otherwise.  If you're trading to a team that's going to use the pick on the QB, you gotta jack them up.

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2 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

Wyoming is one of the worst programs in ALL of college football.

 

Allen alone made them competitive. 

 

Mahomes has always had better supporting casts, offensively anyway, as TT's defense with Mahomes was awful, just like Wyoming's.

 

I loved both Allen and Mahomes coming out, but there were serious questions about both.

 

The Allen/Mahomes comparisons are just silly to me because McDermott already made his decision that he liked Allen better.

 

McBeane is going to swim/sink with Allen. No need to even go into the Mahomes factor here.

I don’t really disagree but who were the star players Mahomes played with in college?  I’m missing all those high draft pick receivers or superior talent.  And I definitely believe a top 10 pick should have had more games of being dominant in the MWC than Allen did.

 

Allen is the upside pick so hopefully, he realizes that potential.  But those picks, fairly or not, will always be connected.

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3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agreed, but it’s not like it didn’t work out for the Bills either. Some trades can be mutually beneficial. I am of the opinion that Allen is going to be special. He may not be Mahomes special, but will be a top 10 QB. If you add that to a couple of pro bowl caliber defenders (White already is and Edmunds will be) you did well. 

 

Put Mahomes on last years Bills roster as a rookie and see what you get from him. Without any help for Allen, and all the help in the world (plus a year to sit, watch and learn) for Mahomes, I’d say we have no idea what the gap is between the two as we sit here today.  I’m NOT saying Allen = Mahomes, but how big is the difference now and what will it be in 5 years given equal surrounding talent? Oh, then consider throwing in a top CB and LB. 

 

Not so obvious, really. 

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In retrospect, Bills would undoubtedly take Brady in 2000 over Flowers, Tilman, Moore, Black, Morris, and Larson.

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Just now, Augie said:

 

Put Mahomes on last years Bills roster as a rookie and see what you get from him. Without any help for Allen, and all the help in the world (plus a year to sit, watch and learn) for Mahomes, I’d say we have no idea what the gap is between the two as we sit here today.  I’m NOT saying Allen = Mahomes, but how big is the difference now and what will it be in 5 years given equal surrounding talent? Oh, then consider throwing in a top CB and LB. 

 

Not so obvious, really. 

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

In retrospect, Bills would undoubtedly take Brady in 2000 over Flowers, Tilman, Moore, Black, Morris, and Larson.

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

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1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

In retrospect, Bills would undoubtedly take Brady in 2000 over Flowers, Tilman, Moore, Black, Morris, and Larson.

Avion Black had the greatest name in NFL history and Leif Larson could lift a house. No thanks to Brady.

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2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t really disagree but who were the star players Mahomes played with in college?  I’m missing all those high draft pick receivers or superior talent.  And I definitely believe a top 10 pick should have had more games of being dominant in the MWC than Allen did.

 

Allen is the upside pick so hopefully, he realizes that potential.  But those picks, fairly or not, will always be connected.

 

It's pretty simple.

 

McDermott will either be a Bills HC 10+ or will be gone in 2 years based on his decision to go with Allen over Mahomes.

 

Mahomes had a better supporting cast in college, not NFL caliber, but better than what Allen had nonetheless.

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30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

 

I didn’t say he’s not better than Allen, I said we have no idea of knowing what the gap is at this point, fully conceding that Mahomes is obviously special. (How would Allen do after sitting and learning a year, then playing with all the KC talent? We’ll never know, but I bet a lot better than we saw this year!) And part of that highly ranked defense are the two other star players on our side of the equation. Can’t forget that. 

Edited by Augie

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Mahomes is no slouch but Allen might end up being just as good if not better, plus we have at the least two above average starters if not future Pro Bowlers.

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Mahomes was able to sit back and learn under Reid.

 

Allen had to play from day one because McDermott falsely had faith in Peterman.

 

Mahomes had a luxury entering the NFL, Allen did not.

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2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I didn’t say he’s not better than Allen, I said we have no idea of knowing what the gap is at this point, fully conceding that Mahomes is obviously special. And part of that highly ranked defense are the two other star players on our side of the equation. Can’t forget that. 

Fair.  I do think people underrated how much playing with a good defense helps a young qb.  Mahomes “lost” games where he scored 51, 28, & 31 points.

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1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Didn’t they use the Chiefs pick acquired in the trade ( plus another) to draft Edmunds ? I think that’s why. 

I realize that but we did have pk 21 to start with. Now maybe that changes our season in 2017 but who knows. Its not like we didnt have another pk to use to move up for Edmunds anyways. Who knows . Maybe we end up with Leonard in the 2nd rd. 

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1 minute ago, njbuff said:

Mahomes was able to sit back and learn under Reid.

 

Allen had to play from day one because McDermott falsely had faith in Peterman.

 

Mahomes had a luxury entering the NFL, Allen did not.

So maybe the guy who traded up for Mahomes is better at evaluating/ developing offensive talent than McDermott. 

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6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

In Five years we will see which QB has more rings. I bet it aint the Chief.

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3 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Well, considering that Mahomes and Allen weren't even in the same draft and the Bills could not have come even close to completing their pre-draft evaluation work on Allen, it's not an either Mahomes or Allen question straight up, right? The premise/byline of the article becomes somewhat misleading then, no? And what is the point of bashing the Bills on this one when how many other franchises similarly passed on Mahomes before KC? 

You make a great point, I mean let's see what Josh Allen does in his 2nd year (since this was Mahomes 2nd year). Heck there's no guaranteeing that Mahomes or Allen will be successful again next season.

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair.  I do think people underrated how much playing with a good defense helps a young qb.  Mahomes “lost” games where he scored 51, 28, & 31 points.

 

It’s tough to be really good on both sides of the ball! (But it’s easier with a QB on a rookie deal.) 

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1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So maybe the guy who traded up for Mahomes is better at evaluating/ developing offensive talent than McDermott. 

He also traded for Peters back in the day.  Maybe we shouldn't trade with this guy.

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2 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

In Five years we will see which QB has more rings. I bet it aint the Chief.

 

Yep.

 

But we will see how Allen develops as he might actually get some offensive help for the first time in his life.

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15 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Yes, because I would have picked Mahomes there otherwise.  If you're trading to a team that's going to use the pick on the QB, you gotta jack them up.

 

Okay, and if the Bills would not have drafted Mahomes there? 

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14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) Mahomes would benefit from having the 2nd ranked defense instead of the 2nd worst defense. Mahomes has our score teams for KC to win.

 

2) I just believe Mahomes is a special talent and better qb than Allen.  I think he would be good (maybe not MVP level in Buffalo) anywhere. 

Larsen wasn’t developed right. 

 

I don't think Mahomes is putting up the same numbers with the 2nd best defense.  Likely in that situation you fewer shots down the field and more running.  Plus, who does he throw the ball to in Buffalo.  He doesn't get Foster until week 10.  

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8 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Mahomes was able to sit back and learn under Reid.

 

Allen had to play from day one because McDermott falsely had faith in Peterman.

 

Mahomes had a luxury entering the NFL, Allen did not.

 

Cool! 

 

Does Allen start games with a 7 point lead then because he didn’t have that “luxury”? 

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1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I don't think Mahomes is putting up the same numbers with the 2nd best defense.  Likely in that situation you fewer shots down the field and more running.  Plus, who does he throw the ball to in Buffalo.  He doesn't get Foster until week 10.  

Would the Bills have the 2nd best defense without White or Edmunds(who we got because of trading away pick 10 in 2017) though?

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