YoloinOhio Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I like Chuck Clay but his injuries are always an issue. Seemed like he would usually play on Sundays whether he practiced a lot or not but looks like he might miss another game. He’s a Whaley guy... think he’s gone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PittsforDave Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Any “vet” who cannot practice the entire week doesn’t deserve the kind of cash he makes. He’s gone. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Seems like the natural progression of things. I can think of a handful of big drops from the guy right off the top of my head. I dunno. I don’t think he would be missed a whole bunch. Doesn’t hurt having a vet TE in their for the youngsters though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 They will let him go. I have no doubts about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Clay hasn't done sh^t since he signed that contract. Waste of cap space and time to find a real TE. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 All of our TE's should be released but I will settle for Clay and Croom for 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I like Chuck Clay but his injuries are always an issue. Seemed like he would usually play on Sundays whether he practiced a lot or not but looks like he might miss another game. He’s a Whaley guy... think he’s gone? Sure hope so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 His contract was so front loaded that he isn't making much next year. And I believe the dead cap and cap hit are the same. So it makes sense to just keep him. I like Maxx Williams and Jack Doyle in free agency. Tyler Krof and Jesse James are interesting as well. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Yeah, Clay's health issues really degrade his value to the team. Logan Thomas and Jason Croom have been growing and improving as players.. I think they are still somwhat underutilized by the Bills, but I don't think the Bills have missed Clay all that much when he's been out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I like Chuck Clay but his injuries are always an issue. Seemed like he would usually play on Sundays whether he practiced a lot or not but looks like he might miss another game. He’s a Whaley guy... think he’s gone? I don’t think injuries are the problem. He a high paid tight end that doesn’t produce. He has what; 5 catches this season for 100 yards? And a turnover to boot. His best years were in Miami. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Why? Let’s pay players who can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I think TE is a huge underrated need for next year. I wouldn't mind taking one in the top 2 rounds, admittedly I don't know what the prospects look like this year. I would go into next season with Croom, a rookie, and bring in competition for Logan Thomas. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 He's signed one more year right? So usually I'd say you hang on to whoever best at the position until you can replace them with someone better. So you'd probably hang on to him into next offseason and try to make a change at the position through FA or the draft. I mean if you're confident you can maintain or improve from him while getting something worthwhile go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: I think TE is a huge underrated need for next year. I wouldn't mind taking one in the top 2 rounds, admittedly I don't know what the prospects look like this year. I would go into next season with Croom, a rookie, and bring in competition for Logan Thomas. Yeah I think the position needs to be completely rebuilt and I would not be surprised if none of this editors guys are back. Thomas has definitely improved and I like what I saw in the Jets game. Croom is interesting, but he cannot block. The fact that a former QB blocks better, speaks volumes in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Johnson Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 The thing about Clay and his alleged disappointing play is that Whaley gave huge dollars to a player already in decline. The blame should go completely on Whaley. Clay had a big year in his 3rd year in the league in 2013 where he had over 100 targets. I believe he would occasionally line up as a FB and he got named to the NFL Network's Top 100 that year. In his 4th year his targets and catches declined - not a good sign for a 25 year old who should have been entering his prime. Whaley paid him huge dollars like he was an elite TE which he never was. His first three years with the Bills were almost exactly the same from a production standpoint and he toughed his way through a number of nagging injuries, but the Bills paid huge $$$ to a guy who has one season out of eight that was above league average production. 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I think TE is a huge underrated need for next year. I wouldn't mind taking one in the top 2 rounds, admittedly I don't know what the prospects look like this year. I would go into next season with Croom, a rookie, and bring in competition for Logan Thomas. Croom will stick - he is under contract and has big upside. Thomas takes a baby step each year but never looks like more than a depth guy. The true #1 TE is not on the team. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Croom is athletic but he can't catch, run routes or block and he has ball security issues. I would rather start fresh with a draft pick and FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 42 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: His contract was so front loaded that he isn't making much next year. And I believe the dead cap and cap hit are the same. So it makes sense to just keep him. I like Maxx Williams and Jack Doyle in free agency. Tyler Krof and Jesse James are interesting as well. Cap hit of 9m and dead money of just 4.5 so there’s a solid cap savings to cutting him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Cap hit of 9m and dead money of just 4.5 so there’s a solid cap savings to cutting him. Spotrac has the Bills current cap room at $9.3M. Can they just cut him now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 cutting o'leary was a big mistake, imo. he was sure handed and reliable 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Charles Clay should send Whaley a Birthday card every year for the rest of his life for giving him $35 Million... 2019 is the first time they can walk away from the deal so I expect it to happen.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Croom is athletic but he can't catch, run routes or block and he has ball security issues. I would rather start fresh with a draft pick and FA. Croom isn't great by any means but he knows the system and we need 3 TEs next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: I like Chuck Clay but his injuries are always an issue. Seemed like he would usually play on Sundays whether he practiced a lot or not but looks like he might miss another game. He’s a Whaley guy... think he’s gone? He should be gone (and that has nothing to do with him being a "whaley guy"). He has underperformed when he has been on the field. We need a more reliable and available TE as blocker/outlet for Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: He should be gone (and that has nothing to do with him being a "whaley guy"). He has underperformed when he has been on the field. We need a more reliable and available TE as blocker/outlet for Allen. Not so much that Whaley signed him but that he’s part of the old regime, and may not necessarily fit this new scheme. He really was brought in for Roman’s offense. He’s more of an Hback/TE. I think he and Rex wanted to use him like Delanie Walker. Edited November 21, 2018 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Just now, YoloinOhio said: Not so much that Whaley signed him but that he’s part of the old regime, and may not necessarily fit this new scheme. He really was brought in for Roman’s offense. He’s more of an Hback/TE. If he was deemed to not be a fit, he would be long gone. This regime doesnt keep players around even if there is no good replacement. The fact that he has been here for two years since McD got here is testament to that thought. He hasnt done much in any role, which is why he should be gone. Get a viable replacement for him, and make sure that the new guy can block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Is he there in 2018? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 A few seasons ago everyone hated on him until someoen did a study to see our average ypp with him on the field vs off. It was significant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: A few seasons ago everyone hated on him until someoen did a study to see our average ypp with him on the field vs off. It was significant Not only that, but he's actually been the 4th most productive TE in Bills history in terms of receptions. 5th most in terms of yardage. And he'll easily be 2nd in both categories behind Metzelaars if he stays next year. The bottom line is that he's a decent player worth keeping when healthy. Key words, of course, are "when healthy." We would save $4.5 million by cutting him. Edited November 21, 2018 by MichaelAbdallah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillies Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 No. Not only injured way to often, but he's turned into Mario Williams 2.0. Lacks passion for the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KW95 - JA17 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 And once again, here we have a boatload of board members in love with a player who has had 2-3 great games in his stint in Buffalo. They say Misery loves company, Bills have built a factory and make misery! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I notice a lot of fans here are qualifying their remarks about Clay by saying that he is worth keeping around when/if healthy. From what has been said though is that he has a bad knee and at his age and with the wear and tear he has undergone he is "Never" going to be healthy again. Time to cut him after the season and save 4.5 million that can be used to sign his replacement in FA. Croom seems like a promising backup TE who can block and catch. Logan Thomas is also a cheap alternative backup TE who can stay but a new #1 TE should be brought in. There should be several good TE's available in FA. Time to move on... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Time to move on- always hurt and has lost a step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 7 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: His contract was so front loaded that he isn't making much next year. And I believe the dead cap and cap hit are the same. So it makes sense to just keep him. I like Maxx Williams and Jack Doyle in free agency. Tyler Krof and Jesse James are interesting as well. ...pretty sure 2019 is the first feasible year to dump him with lessened cap implications....designate him post June 1 and spread it over two years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) He seems worse this year - constantly hobbled and not able or willing to fight for the few targets he gets - and has a look on his face like his body is in steep decline and he can’t understand it - it’s called aging, some athletes fall off a cliff early, he seems shot to me. Could be wrong. Edited November 21, 2018 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 58 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: He seems worse this year - constantly hobbled and not able or willing to fight for the few targets he gets - and has a look on his face like his body is in steep decline and he can’t understand it - it’s called aging, some athletes fall off a cliff early, he seems shot to me. Could be wrong. Agree 100%. He was never worth the contract the Bills signed him to which, at the time of the Bills taking up the option at the start of his second year which converted salary into guaranteed bonus cash spread out for cap purposes, was the highest % guaranteed money for anyone in the league that wasn't a Quarterback on a rookie deal. But his play has declined in a big way this year. It costs the Bills $4.5m dead money to get out after this season, but it costs them an extra $4.5m to keep a player who seems unable to contribute any longer on the team. It is the same as my Trent Murphy argument. To cut him and Clay is a combined $8m in dead cap on the 2019 books. To pay them both though is a combined $17.5m..... you better be sure that you are getting some value and contributions for that extra $9.5m. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Can we trade him right now for Jack Nicholson's nephew from the Phish?! ? ◀️ That signifies sarcasm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Byrd Man Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 9 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: His contract was so front loaded that he isn't making much next year. And I believe the dead cap and cap hit are the same. So it makes sense to just keep him. I like Maxx Williams and Jack Doyle in free agency. Tyler Krof and Jesse James are interesting as well. It's not about the money, it's more about poor results. Cut bait and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I’d bet he stays.. For the simple fact they don’t exactly need the money. Keeping him doesn’t hinder signing anyone else, he is a vet and nobody else really has any experience. With that said it would be very disappointing if they don’t add some more talent to the position to pair with him and whoever else they keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 He hasn't been a All-Pro but he has been a serviceable player, not his fault the Bills signed him to an insane contract. That said, he has had his worst year as a Bill. It honestly comes down to whether the Bills think someone like Jesse James is a better player than Clay at this point in his career because Clay's cap hit plus the 3-4 million it will cost to bring in another tight end will be about what Clay is slated to make next year anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 9 hours ago, HappyDays said: I think TE is a huge underrated need for next year. I wouldn't mind taking one in the top 2 rounds, admittedly I don't know what the prospects look like this year. I would go into next season with Croom, a rookie, and bring in competition for Logan Thomas. Unlike WR, there should be some good options available at TE in free agency. It wouldn't shock me to see us pick up 2 and roll with them and Croom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 For the production he's given us, he's WAY over paid. He's been hurt almost every year he's been here and pretty sure he was injured alot when he was in Miami. His production can easily be replaced with alot less money imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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