Reggie Ragland's play for the chiefs

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, Gray Beard said:

Every new coach says he will adjust his scheme to fit the players already on the roster.  Then they don't.  I think it's a travesty.

Every new coach ends up dumping most of the players and getting THEIR guys for THEIR scheme.  Trust the process. 

It will take three years just to find out if the new coach's scheme is any good.  And then you realize it isn't, so you start over.

 

Unless you don't. Unless you buck the NFL trend and actually give these guys five years.

 

 

[Real McClappy]

2 hours ago, berg1029 said:

 

In all likelihood, it was probably not going to be a good fit once they decided to switch defenses.  With that being said, I felt like the guy never really got a fair shake in Buffalo.  The game before he was traded, he only had 3 snaps.  Coming off an ugly injury and not having played for a year, I felt like some more patience may have benefited the Bills in his situation.  It would appear he was still in the recovery process when they traded him

^THIS^

[Gray Beard]

15 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Unless you don't. Unless you buck the NFL trend and actually give these guys five years.

 

 

Do you think Rex would have turned the ship around if he was given two more years?

Rex may be an anomaly.  Just playing devil's advocate.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Preston Brown is the worst starter on our team. I can’t stand seeing this guy running 5 yds behind guys moving in slow motion. I would have much rather given Ragland a shot. Milano at MLB Ragland at SLB. Can’t be worse then the 2 guys we have out there now. Looks like they have quick sand for socks

Brown started out the Season very very good actually

4 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I didn't know where to put this shocking stat, but thanks to Cover 1...

 

Preston Brown has been way, way better statistically in coverage than... wait for it... Zach Brown.

 

 

love cover 1,  thanks for the link.

 

[Peter]

5 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

Do you think Rex would have turned the ship around if he was given two more years?

Rex may be an anomaly.  Just playing devil's advocate.

 

I do.  It is completely unfair in any event to fire a coach after less than two seasons.  You really need to give a guy at least three to five seasons.

 

Just my two cents.

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

Do you think Rex would have turned the ship around if he was given two more years?

Rex may be an anomaly.  Just playing devil's advocate.

Of course it needs to be a better combination then Pegulas first blush.
lets see how next season goes and reconvene about length of contract shall we.
Rex was and is an anomaly in many ways. I could think of three more A words to use when describing his fine work here.

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I do.  It is completely unfair in any event to fire a coach after less than two seasons.  You really need to give a guy at least three to five seasons.

 

Just my two cents.

3 to five.
available for parole after 3. No sooner.

[Not at the table Karlos]

I would much rather have Ragland playing over Alexander. Maybe he could have helped stop the bleeding after dareus trade. 

[billsfan89]

In a league where Brandon Spikes in a limited role could look like a stud I am not surprised that Ragland is having some success. I think for the 3-4 Ragland will at least be an average player if not way above average. If he stays healthy he could be a very productive player in that system. The Bills decided to switch systems and had to get something for him before he loses value playing in the wrong system. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

8 hours ago, berg1029 said:

With the Bills playing the Chiefs, it seems like an appropriate time to bring this up.  Ragland appears to be getting more and more playing time with the Chiefs.  Last week, he was in nearly an even timeshare for snaps with Derrick Johnson (Ragland 47 snaps vs Johnson 51 snaps out of 68 total Giant's offensive snaps) and led the team in tackles (including one TFL).  It is also worth noting that the Giants averaged 3.5 yards/carry vs a season long average of 4.0 yards/carry.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/11/20/16680936/chiefs-andy-reid-roundup-whats-missing-at-wr-reggie-ragland-a-rookie-parker-ehinger

 

Only time will tell whether this was a good trade or not, but what do you all think?  Was he just a bad fit in the Frazier defense?  Will he end up being a solid player?  Was the trade for a fourth round draft pick a good decision?

 

 

 

The Chiefs are on a downward trajectory as Ragland gets more playing time... I see it as a "plug the dike" situation, trying to stop the leaks and get back on track.

[Mike in Horseheads]

This trade bothered me more than the Sammy trade just didn't get it. Watching the defense mess only makes me wonder... but trust the process

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

4 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Brown started out the Season very very good actually

love cover 1,  thanks for the link.

 

Nah man. 26blitz says it’s not true. The guy should replace his 52 with a bullseye. That’s where the qb is going anyway

[BuffaloRush]

10 hours ago, Bangarang said:

If you don’t like Preston Brown in this scheme then you wouldn’t have liked Ragland.

Yes exactly...  We're probably looking at performances similar to Ramon Humber.  He'd put up some tackle number but get toasted in coverage.  Not a fit for a 4-3

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Commonsense said:

Doug Whaley you bum.

 

That's sarcasm, right?

[BillsfanAZ]

Also take into consideration that the chiefs 3-4 with 300 pounders up front and a good LB core. Ragland is a solid player but there is a reason he is able to run free at times. 

[GoBills808]

On 11/22/2017 at 7:43 AM, berg1029 said:

With the Bills playing the Chiefs, it seems like an appropriate time to bring this up.  Ragland appears to be getting more and more playing time with the Chiefs.  Last week, he was in nearly an even timeshare for snaps with Derrick Johnson (Ragland 47 snaps vs Johnson 51 snaps out of 68 total Giant's offensive snaps) and led the team in tackles (including one TFL).  It is also worth noting that the Giants averaged 3.5 yards/carry vs a season long average of 4.0 yards/carry.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/11/20/16680936/chiefs-andy-reid-roundup-whats-missing-at-wr-reggie-ragland-a-rookie-parker-ehinger

 

Only time will tell whether this was a good trade or not, but what do you all think?  Was he just a bad fit in the Frazier defense?  Will he end up being a solid player?  Was the trade for a fourth round draft pick a good decision?

 

 

I thought he looked very strong on run downs. Decisive on filling the hole and made some sure tackles. I like the Spikes comparison for instincts but he didn't look quite as violent...Spikes was one of my favorite players to watch in his brief time here, watching him take on the lead blocker was just a joy. I think Ragland could pack on a few lbs and play as Spikes lite...just not sure how valuable a backer like that will be in today's game. But overall I think KC should be happy with him.

[Alphadawg7]

On 11/22/2017 at 9:43 AM, berg1029 said:

With the Bills playing the Chiefs, it seems like an appropriate time to bring this up.  Ragland appears to be getting more and more playing time with the Chiefs.  Last week, he was in nearly an even timeshare for snaps with Derrick Johnson (Ragland 47 snaps vs Johnson 51 snaps out of 68 total Giant's offensive snaps) and led the team in tackles (including one TFL).  It is also worth noting that the Giants averaged 3.5 yards/carry vs a season long average of 4.0 yards/carry.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/11/20/16680936/chiefs-andy-reid-roundup-whats-missing-at-wr-reggie-ragland-a-rookie-parker-ehinger

 

Only time will tell whether this was a good trade or not, but what do you all think?  Was he just a bad fit in the Frazier defense?  Will he end up being a solid player?  Was the trade for a fourth round draft pick a good decision?

 

 

 

Personally, I would have rather had kept him given we had not yet even got to see him play yet or know what kind of player he could be.  I liked him in college, so was looking forward to seeing him on the field and LB wasn't an area I felt we had enough depth at in the first place.  I just felt going into this year, it wasn't like we were expected to compete for a SB, so lets see what we have in the kid.  I mean he was one year removed from being a highly regarded LB prospect and hadn't gotten a chance due to injury.  Not like we had an embarrassment of riches at LB.  

 

And all this talk about how he isn't the right fit on this board...there is a gross exaggeration and use of that term by fans.  They think of it as so black and white, but its not remotely close.  A good coach understands and knows how to use its best players.  Sure, there are roles in a system that are better suited for a certain type of player, but if that player isn't on your roster, you don't get rid of a talented player and then force a bad player into that position, you adjust your scheme and system to fit the roster too.  People act like a scheme or system is unchangeable and you either fit it or you don't, and its just not accurate.  

 

But this regime was more interested in next year than this year...a year where they can stock pile picks and TRY and make their mark with a big splash in the draft.  However, the HUGE risk is in whether they draft well and emerge with more talent than they sent away.  If they have a weak draft, they set this team back a lot by getting rid of a lot of young talent and their days will be numbered here.  Its a lot to ask to make up for in one draft.

[Royale with Cheese]

He was awesome yesterday.  He's a much better fit in KC.

[oldmanfan]

He made some good plays in the running game, and also got handled a few times of runs.  Took him out when they expected passes.  It's fine to say ignore schemes, but you can't.  McDermott/Frazier's D relies on LBs who can cover as well as provide run support.  Ragland didn't fit.  He was given every chance in pre-season and simply didn't show enough to keep a job here.  Better spot for him in KC, and we move ahead.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 11/22/2017 at 2:21 PM, Peter said:

 

After this trade, I predicted that we may end up having the same regret trading Reggie to the Chiefs as the Colts have had after trading Jerry Hughes to us.

 

As it turns out, we have plenty of guys who can stop the run . . . oh, oops, wait . . . never mind.

 

Our worst guy in pass coverage is Preston brown, and this guy was so much worse than brown at coverage that we had him on the scout team.  

[Big Turk]

Seems like we got sold a bill of goods by the coaching staff...dude was in our backfield several times and also had McCoy blanketed on a throw to him which was out of bounds...

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He made some good plays in the running game, and also got handled a few times of runs.  Took him out when they expected passes.  It's fine to say ignore schemes, but you can't.  McDermott/Frazier's D relies on LBs who can cover as well as provide run support.  Ragland didn't fit.  He was given every chance in pre-season and simply didn't show enough to keep a job here.  Better spot for him in KC, and we move ahead.

How do you show enough when you are coming back from ACL surgery and likely getting back into shape? It was silly to think he would be right back to normal after that much time of

Edited November 27, 2017 by matter2003

[CanadianFan]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Our worst guy in pass coverage is Preston brown, and this guy was so much worse than brown at coverage that we had him on the scout team.  

 

Yeah it's like the schemes we use keep exposing our players. At some point, coaches have to be way more flexible in employing talent that we have - you can't friggin get every toy you want for every position there is. As much as I hate Belicheat, that's what he does every single year - adjusts his schemes for his talent! And what do our coaches do time after time?  try and change the frigging players out bec. they don't fit their schemes!  

 

We've already swapped out the secondary. we gotta replace our defensive line who are aging, and we got an old guy and undrafted players as our LB core. And we still need help on offense, QB, WRs. There aren't enough quality draft picks to get all the new starters for a whole brand new spankin team!

[Mr. WEO]

Was he a day one starter for KC?

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Our worst guy in pass coverage is Preston brown, and this guy was so much worse than brown at coverage that we had him on the scout team.  

There were a couple of plays Sunday where Brown had Kelce and I had to avert my eyes, luckily there wasn't more damage done. I think on one Kelce just outright dropped it with Brown flailing behind him and frantically grabbing at his jersey...I chuckled.

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, CanadianFan said:

 

Yeah it's like the schemes we use keep exposing our players. At some point, coaches have to be way more flexible in employing talent that we have - you can't friggin get every toy you want for every position there is. As much as I hate Belicheat, that's what he does every single year - adjusts his schemes for his talent! And what do our coaches do time after time?  try and change the frigging players out bec. they don't fit their schemes!  

 

We've already swapped out the secondary. we gotta replace our defensive line who are aging, and we got an old guy and undrafted players as our LB core. And we still need help on offense, QB, WRs. There aren't enough quality draft picks to get all the new starters for a whole brand new spankin team!

then we fire the coach and start over

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Our worst guy in pass coverage is Preston brown, and this guy was so much worse than brown at coverage that we had him on the scout team.  

I actually thought Brown was pretty good in coverage yesterday. He was in zone, but he always seemed to be in the right spot. 

[Mat68]

He was not the long term fit at Mike.  That player is not on the roster.  I expect a rangy baker drafted and a possible Fa signing.   I still would like to see Milano on the field more.  He is becoming a very good player.  He made a few plays behind the line of scrimmage yesterday.  He could become the Will full-time here sooner than later.  

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I actually thought Brown was pretty good in coverage yesterday. He was in zone, but he always seemed to be in the right spot. 

It was incredible that the Chiefs didn't try to exploit our coverage deficiencies. They all but ignored Hunt and Kelce in the passing game, who were the two guys most likely to kill us. They just looked completely rattled and not sure of what they wanted to do, which is what we looked like a lot lately.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

He was not the long term fit at Mike.  That player is not on the roster.  I expect a rangy baker drafted and a possible Fa signing.   I still would like to see Milano on the field more.  He is becoming a very good player.  He made a few plays behind the line of scrimmage yesterday.  He could become the Will full-time here sooner than later.  

Thought Milano had a nice game, although I only remember a few plays on his tbh. I was drinking though.

[Bing Bong]

I'd much rather have Ragland than a 4th.

[Uncle Joe]

8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It was incredible that the Chiefs didn't try to exploit our coverage deficiencies. They all but ignored Hunt and Kelce in the passing game, who were the two guys most likely to kill us. They just looked completely rattled and not sure of what they wanted to do, which is what we looked like a lot lately.

 

Saw the film of Kelce flailing his arms on the final interception and giving up. So Billsy 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Uncle Joe

[TheFunPolice]

This is why you don't continually fire head coaches, especially when they go 8-8 for 2 seasons, which while not great is also far from bad. That was straight up stupid.

 

Rex and Whaley brought in Shaq and Reggie for Rex's D, to improve the results. Shaq came damaged and Reggie never played a down. Then Rex gets blamed for the defense not improving "even though we spent a 1st and a 2nd to help" ignoring that neither player played. Rex hand picked Tyrod, who is now being treated like an inconvenience by the current staff.

 

We've seen McDermott make a bunch of questionable calls and poor clock management as well. Peterman playing was a total joke as it turns out. We had 10 men on the field for the final play vs Atlanta, but it worked out this time.

 

STOP FIRING PEOPLE or you will continue to churn the roster and get nowhere.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

This is why you don't continually fire head coaches, especially when they go 8-8 for 2 seasons, which while not great is also far from bad. That was straight up stupid.

 

Rex and Whaley brought in Shaq and Reggie for Rex's D, to improve the results. Shaq came damaged and Reggie never played a down. Then Rex gets blamed for the defense not improving "even though we spent a 1st and a 2nd to help" ignoring that neither player played. Rex hand picked Tyrod, who is now being treated like an inconvenience by the current staff.

 

We've seen McDermott make a bunch of questionable calls and poor clock management as well. Peterman playing was a total joke as it turns out. We had 10 men on the field for the final play vs Atlanta, but it worked out this time.

 

STOP FIRING PEOPLE or you will continue to churn the roster and get nowhere.

 

So you prefer to keep bad coaches? The answer is to hire good ones not keep bad ones.

[Manther]

10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So you prefer to keep bad coaches? The answer is to hire good ones not keep bad ones.

Agreed!  Even keeping a mediocre HC can make sense. But, Rex was BAD!  I think a bunch of it was he didn't try or put the time in!

[Bad Things]

He sure played like a thumper yesterday.  There were numerous times when his play stood out from the rest.

[cba fan]

12 minutes ago, Bad Things said:

He sure played like a thumper yesterday.  There were numerous times when his play stood out from the rest.

He was the best KC player on the field yesterday. He doesn't play every down but he clearly makes KC better and devalues the 1st rounder KC gave Bills last year.

 

If he was playing anything close to like that right now with Bills they could have traded him in off season for a much higher pick in 2018 draft, instead they have nothing but a 4th in 2019 to show for him.
Or they could have kept him since run D is bad for Bills right now.

 

Stupid stupid trade. Another in a long line of bad trades Beano did.

Edited November 27, 2017 by cba fan

[Real McClappy]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Was he a day one starter for KC?

Nope, he was averaging about 30% of the D snaps up until the last couple weeks.

His snap counts have increased to 60%+ now. He's still getting better every week per Reid coming off the injury.

 

The Bills sold low again.

 

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/11/kansas_city_chiefs_reggie_ragl.html

or

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article186536293.html

Edited November 27, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Bing Bong]

52 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So you prefer to keep bad coaches? The answer is to hire good ones not keep bad ones.

I'd like a good coach that doesn't gut the roster when they come in. Did Sean McVay gut his roster replacing Fisher on a bad Rams team? No he hired coordinators that fit the strengths and made some great offseason moves.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, Bad Things said:

He sure played like a thumper yesterday.  There were numerous times when his play stood out from the rest.

 

 

He thumped the hell out of McCoy yesterday..........one of the worst beatings I have ever seen McCoy take because he rarely gets hit hard multiple times during a game.

 

More indicative of the play calling and some at-times atrocious blocking IMO(particularly Ducasse) but he certainly brought the wood when he got his chances.

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

On 11/22/2017 at 1:28 PM, ganesh said:

and keep picking players to fit a scheme....You have to pick the best players available and adjust your scheme.  

Tell that to the Pittsburgh Steelers , who have run a 3-4 scheme since forever. That's a better way to run a franchise and a scouting department imo. They know exactly what type of player they are looking for and always seem to have the necessary ammo in the chamber. Constantly switching schemes to accommodate bpa drafting wouldn't work either. Consistency is key. 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I'd like a good coach that doesn't gut the roster when they come in. Did Sean McVay gut his roster replacing Fisher on a bad Rams team? No he hired coordinators that fit the strengths and made some great offseason moves.

Different scenario though. The Rams had a lot of good players on their roster, especially defense. He did bring in three new WR and a top level LT to the offense, which, along with his own real talent, transformed the team overnight. You're right in one respect though: If we hired him instead of McD we may have been able to transform the team quicker and had Wade as DC and McVay running the O.