SCBills Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes? Teams are more willing to eat dead cap nowadays and the Bills could've cut Von post 6/1. Or maybe Von wants to be a GM and respects Beane enough with the shadowing he's done of him to agree to this, knowing his future aspirations. Knox, not sure about his situation because we haven't seen the details yet. Edited March 11 by SCBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes? They want to win and know Beane needs more room to bring in more ringers? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes? Because what the Bills are offering is higher than what they’d get on the open market. No one is giving Von Miller $8M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 11 minutes ago, HappyDays said: It is a paycut. Players do it all the time if they know the alternative is a release and the risk of having to accept an even worse salary. And typically I am against the paycuts Beane gives out, historically they have still ended up being a waste of money. But in this case it was the only realistic means of saving money on Knox's contract without tying up more future money. If they get released and signed somewhere else they still get paid, that's why there's dead money right? Yes though players will make deals to stay on teams when they're on the edge of rosters, Knox is not on the edge of NFL rosters. Typically what's common is they move money around and the players actually benefit more from the restructure in some way and the can is kicked down the road, but they don't lose money. 9 minutes ago, NewEra said: Ever…..one of our players doing exactly that last week As for Von the thing I could see him doing is he actually is getting close to the edge of the roster with his injury and off-field situation. Him changing things up is about putting himself in a position to have a shot at another season to secure his spot and with incentives to make up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 13 minutes ago, Billl said: Now imagine you’re the next guy they approach about signing a contract with them. We've run the gauntlet over the years with Ralph Wilson indulging John Butler's over-spending in the late 1990's and then 15 years of mostly cash-to-the-cap after that followed by Pegula indulging Beane's over-spending. Anyone who has been a Bills fan for 25 years or so knows that in the end your statement doesn't actually mean anything. Players all think they are the exception and agents all know that it's pretty much the same everywhere(by design). If the up front money is right and you have a franchise QB like Josh Allen you will be an attractive organization to play for. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes? It's the Josh Effect. Especially for Knox. Sure, he could get released, and go to a worse team, and have to move and learn a new system in a new place. Or he can sit on the ~$25M he's already earned, take a pay cut now and only make a few million instead of 10 million, and stay with a winning team and one of the best QBs in the league, where he already lives and has the best opportunity for success. If Knox got released and ended up on a bad team, his career is probably over in 2-3 years. Here, he could play another 4-6. And win a SB. 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 39 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I was told a couple weeks ago Knox was approached about a paycut. I'm not sure what leverage we used considering his dead money hit would have been higher than his normal cap hit, but I'm glad to see he accepted the paycut. Perhaps we threatened a release with a post-6/1 designation? Glad to see Beane being especially ruthless this offseason. It is a necessary change. Who told you this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, JohnNord said: Who told you this? Happy has his connections at OBD. That's been established here. It's Buffalo. 2 degrees of separation at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 9 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes? With VM, maybe there are still some unresolved issues behind the scenes with his domestic violence situation that the team knows and we don't which don't leave him and his agent in the best negotiating position? Could be any number of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Happy to hear. Would’ve been bad for locker room if guys like Poyer and Morse are getting cut and Knox’s horrible contract wasn’t touched because he’s Josh’s buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 You can put an extra diamond on his Super Bowl ring for being a true team guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 46 minutes ago, Process said: Love Dawson but it's pretty crazy that he was counting $14.4M against the cap in the first place. Stuff like that is why we are in this mess. What mess? Thr Bills are completely fine. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 My bet is this pay cut puts him in the 8-9m per year range, which would rank in the mid-to-high teens among TEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 This will make my wife happy, he's her favorite player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 1. "To keep him in Buffalo" sounds like the alternative was getting cut. 2. Knox is no dummy; he saw that Kincaid set a Bills' record for TE receptions as a rookie. Kincaid is the new #1 TE and Knox knows if he rides out another year with 300 yards and gets cut, he's looking at a pretty low deal — and maybe from a team without a franchise QB. 3. With future HOFer Miller taking a pay cut and several cherished veterans getting cut from the team, it's easier for other guys to take a pay hit as he's not the only one. It's a psychology thing: you don't want to be the only one but if it's happening across the board, it's ok. I will puke in my mouth if he's keeping all his money but we're just pushing it down the road but I hope and suspect that's not the case. Edited March 11 by Nephilim17 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Happy has his connections at OBD. That's been established here. It's Buffalo. 2 degrees of separation at most. Really? What evidence has there been? I must have missed that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 I love Knox. I still think he had been criminally underused by our OCs. He has all the tools to be just as good as the elite TEs. Yss his hands are gross at times. But his run after catch is very good. Truly hope they find the magic of the two TE set next year. It can be lethal especially with a viable run threat from the OL and Cook 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 46 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Yes, key word there is "reworked". If it's a pay cut like Von took, Id be happy about that. Let's see how much this saves...but solid move to make His co tract had a $5M roster bonus that guaranteed last year. I’m sure that got converted to a SB. Not sure what else they did tho. Some of his salary could’ve also been converted. Or maybe a pay cut offset by additional guarantees and/or incentives. Just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Von and Knox had two of the worst contracts on the team. Glad to see they were both addressed. 3rd, to me, is Diggs…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Just now, JohnNord said: Really? What evidence has there been? I must have missed that Just pay attention to posts? You're taking it a bit too seriously, especially because no one will ever reveal their sources, for good reason. 1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said: I love Knox. I still think he had been criminally underused by our OCs. He has all the tools to be just as good as the elite TEs. Yss his hands are gross at times. But his run after catch is very good. Truly hope they find the magic of the two TE set next year. It can be lethal especially with a viable run threat from the OL and Cook He's our most reliable Red Zone weapon. And the Bills are something ridiculous like 20-0 in games he has a TD catch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Now the most feared words for every Bills player not named Josh Allen: "Mr. Beane would like to see you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Just pay attention to posts? You're taking it a bit too seriously, especially because no one will ever reveal their sources, for good reason. Ok so no evidence..got it 2 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, Virgil said: Von and Knox had two of the worst contracts on the team. Glad to see they were both addressed. 3rd, to me, is Diggs…. Now if Beane could get Diggs to tale a paycut…that would be something… I got a feeling Diggs gets left alone though… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Sounds like a pay cut. Knox doesn’t have to agree to a restructure. I think what you mean is, the Bills can re-structure Knox’s contract without his consent, which suggests that this is a negotiated pay cut. Interesting… Edited March 11 by mannc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said: Now if Beane could get Diggs to tale a paycut…that would be something… I got a feeling Diggs gets left alone though… Do it. Could make him more tradeable if needed as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 12 minutes ago, Warcodered said: If they get released and signed somewhere else they still get paid, that's why there's dead money right? Yes though players will make deals to stay on teams when they're on the edge of rosters, Knox is not on the edge of NFL rosters. Typically what's common is they move money around and the players actually benefit more from the restructure in some way and the can is kicked down the road, but they don't lose money. As for Von the thing I could see him doing is he actually is getting close to the edge of the roster with his injury and off-field situation. Him changing things up is about putting himself in a position to have a shot at another season to secure his spot and with incentives to make up for it. Dead cap is from previous paid money spread over future years. Knox is less valuable with Kincaid though they would prefer both. I think league wide he would be viewed as a good starter. His agent probably put out feelers and is agreeing to a market deal. To entice, like Von, Knox will have incentives to make more than he would have before. I think its a good move from both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterStrategist Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, JohnNord said: Ok so no evidence..got it Happy has posted many injury "inside" info, during the season...ie: Groot foot, Knox wrist, McGovern knee, etc He's also posted signings/interest in future players, ie: Murray, Joseph, Ford, etc LY 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, JohnNord said: Who told you this? people don't need to give up their sources on these forums, but comments like what @HappyDays said are always taken at "face value." I personally have no reason not to trust Happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 26 minutes ago, DapperCam said: I don’t really understand Von and Knox taking pay cuts. What leverage do the Bills have in this scenarios? They can’t really cut these guys due to the dead cap. Why do the players say yes? They say yes the day after they found the keys to a safe deposit box with a bag full of money in it…, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 48 minutes ago, Logic said: Imagine working you way up the depth chart, balling out, and signing a big contract to be the TE1 of a top offense for years to come. Then the very next offseason your team trades up in the 1st round to select another tight end, and the offseason after that, they're knocking on your day asking you to take a paycut. Tough business. Well that deal was at the start of 2022, before Kincaid, which put him in the top 10 of TE salaries. He finished 17th among TEs that year. I love Knox and even before reworking I want him here because He and Dalton are different players. That said, it was smart for him to take that. I am not sure anyone is offering him more than what we are working on with him in total. BTW, he was originally guaranteed $31.2 million and received a $7 million bonus, just FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Don Otreply said: They say yes the day after they found the keys to a safe deposit box with a bag full of money in it…, I hear that Pegs takes them for a round of golf at $250k a hole … Wouldn’t you believe it …Pegs can’t put one on the fairway all day.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: His co tract had a $5M roster bonus that guaranteed last year. I’m sure that got converted to a SB. Not sure what else they did tho. Some of his salary could’ve also been converted. Or maybe a pay cut offset by additional guarantees and/or incentives. Just have to wait and see. I think he will keep the guaranteed roster and option bonus this year and take a salary cut. He's scheduled to make $4.9M in salary. I'm guessing that will get cut to $2M or so and "maybe" some NLTBE incentives in return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaggersEOD Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Maybe this is the “put your money where your mouth is” year for Buffalo. In my day dreams, I see Allen’s contract also announcing a restructuring to save Cap, as they all realize, the ring is more important than the bling!! *blinks and wakes up* crap back to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I think he will keep the guaranteed roster and option bonus this year and take a salary cut. He's scheduled to make $4.9M in salary. I'm guessing that will get cut to $2M or so and "maybe" some NLTBE incentives in return. Certainly possible. I don’t think I’d do that if I were Knox though. I’d take my $5M and go play for another team where I’d make a lot more than $2M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 9 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: They say yes the day after they found the keys to a safe deposit box with a bag full of money in it…, This is an interesting question. In college football, it’s been known for years that players were getting money under the table, by “bagmen”. Is there any evidence that nfl players get money off the books to dodge the cap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: I was told a couple weeks ago Knox was approached about a paycut. I'm not sure what leverage we used considering his dead money hit would have been higher than his normal cap hit, but I'm glad to see he accepted the paycut. Perhaps we threatened a release with a post-6/1 designation? Glad to see Beane being especially ruthless this offseason. It is a necessary change. It's nothing new. He's asked guys for paycuts, and gotten many to do it, in previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Any word on the actual numbers yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Certainly possible. I don’t think I’d do that if I were Knox though. I’d take my $5M and go play for another team where I’d make a lot more than $2M. Maybe. But how many guys have left teams for perceived "greener pastures" only to end up miserable and full of regret? He may think that the Bills are his best fit. We may never know. Hopefully, the decision ends up mutually beneficial for both parties. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, pennstate10 said: This is an interesting question. In college football, it’s been known for years that players were getting money under the table, by “bagmen”. Is there any evidence that nfl players get money off the books to dodge the cap? IDK if there is, but it would not surprise me in the slightest to find out that it is a common ploy, after all, we are talking about 32 franchises that are worth billions each, owned by people who are multi billionaires…, it’s a different world that those folk live in, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Certainly possible. I don’t think I’d do that if I were Knox though. I’d take my $5M and go play for another team where I’d make a lot more than $2M. where Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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