Groot’s development

[Toledo Bill]

I am disappointed in his progress. For a while I thought he would be a real force but it doesn’t seem like he is progressing. 
Interested  in opinions.

[boyst]

I think he needs to be on the field more than he is already. 

[LabattBlue]

Same as Oliver & AJE.  Just when you think they are turning the corner, they disappear.  

[Bagwell358]

He's another example of Beane not hitting on his first or second round picks. 

 

That same year Miami took Jaelen Phillips. His impact is much greater. 

 

I dont know the issue overall but there are too many DEs on this roster making a lot of money to not impact the QB more. Last night was a perfect example. The fact we are having to blitz as often as we are says alot about where this group is at. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Bagwell358

[BuffaloRebound]

The D Line seemed stout last night and other than the 1st drive they made Burrow uncomfortable.  

[jahnyc]

His progress seems to have stopped this year after the injury to his foot, which apparently he can play with but with pain.  Seems that this might be what is affecting his recent play after a strong start to the season.

[MPL]

Good player. Not a game-wrecker. Probably won't ever be. About what you'd expect out of an edge rusher drafted at the end of round 1. 

[BBFL]

I always wonder how high rotations help younger guys you draft high and hope to be a cornerstone… For guys like Von, Shaq and Phillips it’s understandable to keep them fresh and on the field for what they do best. 

[Bruffalo]

He was effective when the rest of the defense was healthy.  He had some decent plays last night.  

 

He's not a game wrecker and you'll rarely find a DE who is one at the end of the first round. 

 

 

[Mark Vader]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

The D Line seemed stout last night and other than the 1st drive they made Burrow uncomfortable.  

True. While Burrow was only sacked once, he faced a good amount of pressure last night.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Bold prediction:  Once Linval Joseph is on the field more and Douglas is in at CB full-time, the rest of our DL will look way better.

 

This defense has been reeling from the injuries, AND playing against an elite QB like Burrow did not help.  Hosting Russell Wilson on MNF and then Zach Wilson seem like a great get-right spots for this D-line.

[VaMilBill]

Say what you want about groo, but last night in that last 3rd down for the bengals, if Groot was on the field over Von, I think Groot makes that tackle. Von sucks

[BillsPride12]

I feel like every season he starts out Hot and then kinda disappears as the season goes on.  I wonder how much of that might be related to injury/wear and tear problems for a guy of his size and build.  

[SCBills]

I honestly don't know what to think about anyone on this defense.  

 

When everyone is healthy, the defense is an absolute unit.

 

When we have injuries, or anyone gets dinged up, they severely underperform playing through injury and/or apparently need elite talent around them to perform at a high level - specifically on the DL.

[dorquemada]

Just now, VaMilBill said:

Say what you want about groo, but last night in that last 3rd down for the bengals, if Groot was on the field over Von, I think Groot makes that tackle. Von sucks

 

Von needs to get back to IR.  He's not helping.  If the Bills somehow fall ass backwards into the playoffs maybe reactivate him so we can watch in wonder as he arcs 20 yards past the QB as we watch middling RBs run right past where he should have been.  You don't get to see that sort of talent just anywhere

[mrags]

10 minutes ago, boyst said:

I think he needs to be on the field more than he is already. 

Another McDermott fail. His useless “rotation” on the DLine. All the extra cap space and resources spent on guys that play 15 plays a game. 

[zow2]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

The D Line seemed stout last night and other than the 1st drive they made Burrow uncomfortable.  

 

I feel the same about the D line....  then you look at the box score and the D as a whole gave up 397 total yards, 53% 3rd down conversions and forced zero takeaways.  They really are no match at the 2nd and 3rd levels for for Burrows quick release, accuracy and decision making.  

[Mark Vader]

16 minutes ago, boyst said:

I think he needs to be on the field more than he is already. 

I agree with this. We need our best players on the field as much as possible.
 

I understand going out for a play or two or three, but I would like to see Rousseau out there constantly.

[BuffaloRebound]

Just now, zow2 said:

 

I feel the same about the D line....  then you look at the box score and the D as a whole gave up 397 total yards, 53% 3rd down conversions and forced zero takeaways.  They really are no match at the 2nd and 3rd levels for for Burrows quick release, accuracy and decision making.  

Burrow is elite.  Considering how little our offense could stay on the field, it’s borderline shocking we didn’t get buried.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

18 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

His progress seems to have stopped this year after the injury to his foot, which apparently he can play with but with pain.  Seems that this might be what is affecting his recent play after a strong start to the season.

This, same story last year with the ankle. 

[Bangarang]

I never thought he was going to be a double digit sack guy that consistently disrupts games. 
 

I pegged him as more of a Shaq Lawson type who will be strong against the run while getting the occasional sack.

 

He’s certainly going to be a guy that makes his bread winning off the edge. 

[Maynard]

Maybe it really is his foot. He started out very strong, but has since disappeared. AJE has disappeared as well, just when I thought he might be breaking out. Von is a shell of himself with this second ACL tear. That’s expected with an ACL, but with his age this might be it. 

[wppete]

He was Invisible yesterday except for the one tip ball play. Very disappointing. Thankfully we signed Leonard Flyod! Floyd and Epanesa are playing well. Von Miller needs to be benched. 

[Virgil]

Can this all really be the Jones affect?  Our entire pass rush disappeared when he got hurt.  It doesn't make any sense.  By that logic, pay Jones their combined salaries and give them the min.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

The loss of Daquan Jones has made our entire defensive line less effective.

[Paup 1995MVP]

36 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

He was effective when the rest of the defense was healthy.  He had some decent plays last night.  

 

He's not a game wrecker and you'll rarely find a DE who is one at the end of the first round. 

 

 

Maxx Crosby-4th round Eastern Michigan.  

[Bruffalo]

13 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Maxx Crosby-4th round Eastern Michigan.  

Yes, sometimes you get lucky. I'm not sure what your point is.

[dorquemada]

27 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

The loss of Daquan Jones has made our entire defensive line less effective.

 

If Daquan Jones was the only thing making the Bills play disciplined D, staying in lanes and not overpursuing, then yeah they were never going anywhere this year and we can all relax.

[bouds]

Feel like he's playing hurt.  Not trying to make excuses but his play took a dip as soon as he got hurt.

[Logic]

This one's simple to me:

Groot WAS on the trajectory toward dominance that we all expected this season until he hurt his foot. Hasn't looked the same since.

Furthermore, since Von came back, Groot has been on the field less. Now, in all likelihood, Groot's reduced pass rushing effectiveness as a result of his injury is likely also to blame for his reduced snap count. BUT...if he returns to form and continues to cede snaps to Von Miller -- who does not yet look to be back to his old self -- I may become a bit concerned. I love having Floyd and Miller, but I don't want our young, blossoming stud to have his growth stunted by losing too many snaps to guys that are in the back nine of their careers.

I think Groot is already a good NFL Edge with the potential and with all the needed tools to become a perennial top 10 guy. His biggest enemies right now are his own health and the veterans in front of him.

Also, I know we're all sick of hearing this after the Tremaine Edmunds years, but...Groot is still just 23 years old, and this is only his fourth year playing defensive end EVER. I mean across high school, college, and the pros. Crazy to think about.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Logic

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I honestly don't know what to think about anyone on this defense.  

 

When everyone is healthy, the defense is an absolute unit.

 

When we have injuries, or anyone gets dinged up, they severely underperform playing through injury and/or apparently need elite talent around them to perform at a high level - specifically on the DL.

It seems we need elite talent at every position on D.  When we do, the defense is nasty.  Remove one piece and it goes to ***** quickly.  Its the most sensitive defensive scheme known to man.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

It seems we need elite talent at every position on D.  When we do, the defense is nasty.  Remove one piece and it goes to ***** quickly.  Its the most sensitive defensive scheme known to man.

 

This. 

 

I'll give McDermott credit for having a functioning defense given these injuries, but in terms of being elite... it can't be Tre goes down, we can't stop good offenses.  Von goes down, we can't stop good offenses. Daquan/Milano/Tre go down.. we become one of the worst defenses in the league.

 

All the while talented players regress all over the place. 

 

It's just not enough from McDermott over the years to warrant us sacrificing the offense to musical chairs at OC.

[blacklabel]

1 hour ago, Bagwell358 said:

He's another example of Beane not hitting on his first or second round picks. 

 

That same year Miami took Jaelen Phillips. His impact is much greater. 

 

I dont know the issue overall but there are too many DEs on this roster making a lot of money to not impact the QB more. Last night was a perfect example. The fact we are having to blitz as often as we are says alot about where this group is at. 

 

Phillips hasn't had much more of an impact over Groot. Both have missed time with injuries but as it stands right meow Groot has more sacks this season while having 15 for his career and Phillips with 19. Miami fans been waiting for that guy to turn the corner as well but it hasn't happened yet. 

[CincyBillsFan]

When you consider the draft/FA capitol spent on the D line in the last 5 seasons they should be dominant. Oliver, Groot, Boogie, Epinesa, Floyd, Von Miller.  Can you imagine if we had redirected half of that to the O line or landing another high end WR?

 

 

[LarryMadman]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

The D Line seemed stout last night and other than the 1st drive they made Burrow uncomfortable.  

Hmmm......Burrows stat line was pretty impressive from last night.....31/44 348 2/0 1 sack and 108 rating.....I would say Burrow was unfazed by the Bills pass rush. Yes, I did watch the game and I only seen pressure when McD brought the blitz, without it there was nothing from the Dline.

Edited November 6, 2023 by LarryMadman

[Forward Progress]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Same as Oliver & AJE.  Just when you think they are turning the corner, they disappear.  

 

They were all shining when DaQuon Jones was playing well.  Once DaQuon went down, our entire D-line went down with it.   The big guys up front never get enough credit for the roll they play in freeing up others to make plays.

[Jauronimo]

10 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Hmmm......Burrows stat line was pretty impressive from last night.....31/44 348 2/0 1 sack and 108 rating.....I would say Burrow was unfazed by the Bills pass rush. Yes, I did watch the game and I only seen pressure when McD brought the blitz, without it there was nothing from the Dline.

Even with the blitz no one got home.  The all out blitz has been worthless.

[Irv]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

 

Von needs to get back to IR.  He's not helping.  If the Bills somehow fall ass backwards into the playoffs maybe reactivate him so we can watch in wonder as he arcs 20 yards past the QB as we watch middling RBs run right past where he should have been.  You don't get to see that sort of talent just anywhere

Agree.  At this point Reid Fergusion is having more of a defensive impact than Miller.    

[BillsfaninChicago]

Who in the hell is Groot? Is that one of the characters from Hogan’s Heroes? 

[bmur66]

He is tractor puller that just can’t get a full pull. Very disappointing watching him push his man almost to the qb and then get stonewalled. Seen enough of that crap. Learn some fricking moves dude!