Montez Sweat Massive New Contract

[QCity]

20 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Where else were they gonna spend the money? They still have a ridiculous amount of space and have the ability to sign any free agent they want quarterbacks included. 

 

There are holes all over that team. There was absolutely no urgency or need to spend that money in November. Cap space can dry up real quick in free agency.

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, Process said:

In the past year the bears have 

 

- Traded a top 40 pick for a DE who has never had double digits sacks, and paid him $25M /yr

 

-Signed Edmunds to a contract paying him $18M /yr

 

- Traded the #32 pick for Chase Claypool only to basically cut him a year later 

 

😳

 

And there are fans here that say Brandon Beane is a terrible GM.

[Rc2catch]

8 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

There are holes all over that team. There was absolutely no urgency or need to spend that money in November. Cap space can dry up real quick in free agency.

They have like 3-5 guys making more than 5 million on their roster. They have one of the best cap situations in the league. Until you drop 40 million on a quarterback you have all the money you need. That’s why San Fran basically has a pro bowler at every starting spot and starting level players at backup.  Sweat and Edmunds contracts don’t hurt Chicago in the slightest bit. They can sign anyone willing to play there the next 2-3 years. 
 

 

quick edit, I don’t know their actual salary cap info I’m just guesstimating

Edited November 4, 2023 by Rc2catch

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

There are holes all over that team. There was absolutely no urgency or need to spend that money in November. Cap space can dry up real quick in free agency.

There is urgency if you’re a GM or coach who’s afraid he’ll be fired if the team shows no progress this year.

[Low Positive]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

There is urgency if you’re a GM or coach who’s afraid he’ll be fired if the team shows no progress this year.

This fact explains everything that the Bears have done this year.

[BBFL]

19 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

And there are fans here that say Brandon Beane is a terrible GM.

I can’t fault Poles for signing Edmunds. They had a need. 
 

His whole problem is the amount of money. He doesn’t scream to me as a guy who is making the be all end all personnel decisions, that’s something a coach usually provides him to acquire. That deal and this Sweat one is insane. If you put that dollar down as the minimum to pay I doubt you would see any more than 2 or 3 teams talking to Edmunds, Sweat or their Agents. 
 

The Claypool one is rough too. But washes out seeing as they managed to get a talented downfield threat in Moore anyway… If they didn’t and then cut Claypool within the same time period. Yeah. You’d really have to wonder what he’s doing to give Eberflus the personnel he wants. 
 

Big picture though… Finances make or break your team and the money always went to the QB/OLine and Pass Rushers…

 But guys who say that % of the cap share were guys who saw a hefty amount of double teams and still came away with 12/15/20 sack ballpark numbers in a season…

 

Sweat has had a load of talent to occupy other portions of the offensive line and still comes away with pedestrian numbers for a “premier pass rusher”. (I say premier because that’s exactly what the contract is…)

 

Another situation where an absolute stud of a QB lands a guy a job somewhere else in the NFL. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by BBFL

[Doc Brown]

42 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I’ve seen a ton of Washington games living in the area.  Montez is very solid.  He’s definitely been better than Chase Young.  Not sure he deserves that kind of money but he’s good. 

He is and paying a little extra to get him with an qb that will be on a rookie contract is understandable.  You see it all the time with non desirable destinations.  However, giving up a high second round pick for him when you could’ve waited until free agency is why it’s a poor move.

[RiotAct]

have fun with that, Chicago.

[QCity]

17 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

They have like 3-5 guys making more than 5 million on their roster. They have one of the best cap situations in the league. Until you drop 40 million on a quarterback you have all the money you need. That’s why San Fran basically has a pro bowler at every starting spot and starting level players at backup.  Sweat and Edmunds contracts don’t hurt Chicago in the slightest bit. They can sign anyone willing to play there the next 2-3 years. 
 

 

quick edit, I don’t know their actual salary cap info I’m just guesstimating

 

Spending money just because you have it is not shrewd. It's less about the money and more about throwing away a high 2nd round pick. This is going on a tangent. My original point was that, yes, it is completely fair to judge a GM on his two largest contracts.

 

14 minutes ago, mannc said:

There is urgency if you’re a GM or coach who’s afraid he’ll be fired if the team shows no progress this year.

 

Of course, but if that's the true reason for these moves it's a disaster in the making.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Sweat has elite traits…his production has been somewhat disappointing but that Washington team is a joke and Del Rio is an abysmal defensive coordinator.  He is young and has a lot of upside.

 

He has upside, sure. But the Bears are banking on unlocking it. And if you are talking teams who are a joke....

[Buffalo03]

Greg Rousseau in 3 years

 

Beane: Greg,we wanna keep you long term. We were thinking a 4 year deal worth $75 million guaranteed with $57 million guaranteed

 

Rousseau: I love playing for you. But I can't do that. Montez Sweat got $98 million from the Bears 

 

Beane: The Bears are also dumber than Harry and Lloyd soooo

Edited November 4, 2023 by Buffalo03

[mannc]

55 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He is and paying a little extra to get him with an qb that will be on a rookie contract is understandable.  You see it all the time with non desirable destinations.  However, giving up a high second round pick for him when you could’ve waited until free agency is why it’s a poor move.

There’s no telling that the Bears could have signed Sweat in FA and they have zero pass rush and really very little DL talent at all.  He’s certainly better than what they could get with the 40th pick in the draft, albeit more expensive. They are still going to be loaded with draft picks in April and they just filled a big hole.

[Beast]

Momma always said, stupid is as stupid does.

[PonyBoy]

3 hours ago, Success said:

Wouldn't it be cool to make $98,000,000?

 

 

Yeah... But the taxes 😉 

😄

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, mannc said:

There’s no telling that the Bears could have signed Sweat in FA and they have zero pass rush and really very little DL talent at all.  He’s certainly better than what they could get with the 40th pick in the draft, albeit more expensive. They are still going to be loaded with draft picks in April and they just filled a big hole.

 

But on that deal they HAVE to get the maximum out of his potential.

[Doc Brown]

27 minutes ago, mannc said:

There’s no telling that the Bears could have signed Sweat in FA and they have zero pass rush and really very little DL talent at all.  He’s certainly better than what they could get with the 40th pick in the draft, albeit more expensive. They are still going to be loaded with draft picks in April and they just filled a big hole.

It definitely takes competition out of the equation but I wouldn’t minimize the value of having a second round pick on a rookie deal.  I think rolling the dice waiting until the offseason to try and be the team that slightly overpays is a smarter move.  Heck.  You might even to be able to find a better DEvfree agent for similar money.

[ProcessTruster]

well,  I would have kept the pick and grabbed a guy in FA, probably not as good, but hey #2 pick is one you do not want to part with 

I don't to hear a peep out of those who want to roast McBeanes. Thank your lucky stars for "The Process"

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, sven233 said:

What in the world has this guy done in this league to justify that kind of contract?  I mean, we'll have to wait to see the final breakdown of the contract, but man.....  At those number, for that level of player, you can kiss AJ Epenesa goodbye for sure now.  If AJ continues his level of play that he's had this season, even though it has been a bit of up and down at times, he's smiling looking at this contract for sure.

Please let someone overpay for him! 

[Low Positive]

19 minutes ago, PonyBoy said:

 

Yeah... But the taxes 😉 

😄

Even if they took 70%, that’s still over 28 million. I think I could manage.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

I dont think so. You put too much emphasis on what an owner responsibility is in an organization.

 

Yeah but the one thing RW was known for was not paying high $$ for coaches sop that hurt the team overall.

[Utah John]

Comparisons between the Bears now and the Bills during the dark years, are a little unfounded.  The Bears are spending too much money, while the Bills refused to spend anything.  There was an accountant who worked for Ralph Wilson (can't remember his name, thankfully) who blocked the Bills from ever being competitive.  The Bears are spending too much, at least it appears that way.

 

I watched parts of Bears games and saw Tremaine Edmunds floating around the defense and joining in on tackles that he should have made himself.  Brought back a lot of bad memories.  I think Bernard is turning out to be a better player and much cheaper as well.  

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Comparisons between the Bears now and the Bills during the dark years, are a little unfounded.  The Bears are spending too much money, while the Bills refused to spend anything.  There was an accountant who worked for Ralph Wilson (can't remember his name, thankfully) who blocked the Bills from ever being competitive.  The Bears are spending too much, at least it appears that way.

 

I watched parts of Bears games and saw Tremaine Edmunds floating around the defense and joining in on tackles that he should have made himself.  Brought back a lot of bad memories.  I think Bernard is turning out to be a better player and much cheaper as well.  

 

Yeah it's different.........for one thing, Ralph was a nightmare for coaches to work for.   To paraphrase Chuck Knox "Buffalo is where coaches go to die".    Ralph had no respect for the value of coaches and by the time he finally realized he needed a quality HC to turn his team around in the late 2000's good coaches like Mike Shanahan and Bill Cowher wouldn't even take a blank check to work for him.    

 

The Bears could actually get a great HC but their leadership is just clueless in general,  not boycotted by the coaching profession like Ralph when he had to hire Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey. 

 

And the accountant was Jeff Littman.   He played his part, and had his own selfish reasons,  to encourage Ralph to treat the team like it was just a business with a limited shelf life to suck cash from instead of as a going concern.

 

Ralph would spend big.........but only if he thought the team was close to winning big.    He was notorious for being a football idiot who couldn't tell what kind of team he had until he saw them play thru a preseason and then when it was clear the team was going to suck he would look to cut solid players he could "lose without" and save money before salaries became guaranteed in week 1.

 

That was a profitable business move in the short term........but it was bad for the development of the team.   Guys like Dwan Edwards and Langston Walker were replaced by total incompetence that made it hard to even evaluate the talent at some other positions and made the organization look like a clown show that only hurt their ability to bring in outside talent in offseasons.  

 

I do agree that the Bears could be turned around quickly by good ownership.  

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[DrPJax]

JUST THROWING MONEY at two “names” does not recreate BUTKus  AND RICHARD DENT.     I guess refrigerator perry and McMahon are next in line ,,,,,like line dance reruns of the SB shuffle!    Gm is playing w Monopoly money.   Got to admit i love seeing edmunds running alongside a screen pass cuz at 6’5” he is too valuable preventing crossing routes and his waist towel hopefully never comes loose from his belt. Best looking non hitter in nfl history.    Looks fantastic fixing his dreads and gloves after every play.  

     Butkus is rolling and urlacher just yanked out his transplants.  Fields is the antithesis of McMahon as a leader.   Amazing How the black and blue division, Well Chicago, has  gone from Windy City to little red riding hoodville, in a straw venue.   All they need is to bring on their past mayor in the role of singletary eyes!   Good thing they have great hospitals like RUSH, cuz da bears fans are going to be filling the ers up with coronaries as they down brats flushed w pitchers of green beer. Well. They had’85 And that win over grogan and the pats!  Seems like yester………,,,40 years ago!  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

What a time to be an elite team in the NFC!

 

Meanwhile being an elite team in the AFC makes you anywhere from 1-6 best team.

[Saratoga Leo]

5 hours ago, BigBadBills said:

He’s been 19 years old for 6 years now!

My wife has been 39 years old for 26 years. What's your point?

[C.Biscuit97]

Eh, he’s a young pass rusher. They get paid. He’s also had 9 and 8 sack season and is on pass for 13 this year. I guess the question is should you pay the guy who produced but is getting old and declining (Von) or the one who is ascending and has his best football ahead of him? A lot of bills fans could talk themselves into Sweat really quick if we got him.

 

the Bears might have the top 2 picks of the draft (Williams or Maye who both might be better than a bunch of starters in the league now on a cheap contract) with some legit talent. I think the word disaster is getting throw around too easy. I’d rather have their situation than a bunch of teams, NE, Arizona, Rams, etc.

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

Comparisons between the Bears now and the Bills during the dark years, are a little unfounded.  The Bears are spending too much money, while the Bills refused to spend anything.  There was an accountant who worked for Ralph Wilson (can't remember his name, thankfully) who blocked the Bills from ever being competitive.  The Bears are spending too much, at least it appears that way.

 

I watched parts of Bears games and saw Tremaine Edmunds floating around the defense and joining in on tackles that he should have made himself.  Brought back a lot of bad memories.  I think Bernard is turning out to be a better player and much cheaper as well.  

Yeah, the Ralph is cheap is one of the dumbest myths around. 

3 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

well,  I would have kept the pick and grabbed a guy in FA, probably not as good, but hey #2 pick is one you do not want to part with 

I don't to hear a peep out of those who want to roast McBeanes. Thank your lucky stars for "The Process"

 

 

How many young elite pass rushers hit FA? And if they are that good, they are going to get a ton of money. 

[DCofNC]

First signing a decent ILB to 18M a year, now trading a high second round pick to get a decent DE and pay him like a HOFer, their GM is awful.

[BillsShredder83]

9 hours ago, aristocrat said:

zero chance they stay with fields. They’d have to give him a new contract I think after next year. 

The Bears staying course would be the most bearsy thing I've ever seen.

 

Also, the new GM will have no loyalty to that RB that plays QB

[Prospector]

Seems excessive 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, the Ralph is cheap is one of the dumbest myths around. 

 

It was more of a gaslighting technique used by Ralph's apologists than a "myth"............because there was abundant proof that it wasn't always the case that he was cheap.

 

The game was to say Ralph was cheap and roll your eyes........then wait for people to object to the eye roll part.......so they could then point to some expensive signings etc..  

 

Larry Felser said it best...........the one word definition for Ralph was "mercurial"..........and it's very difficult to be a consistent, systematic winning organization when your leader is prone to sudden changes of mood and mind.     

[Richard Noggin]

6 hours ago, Utah John said:

Comparisons between the Bears now and the Bills during the dark years, are a little unfounded.  The Bears are spending too much money, while the Bills refused to spend anything.  There was an accountant who worked for Ralph Wilson (can't remember his name, thankfully) who blocked the Bills from ever being competitive.  The Bears are spending too much, at least it appears that way.

 

You're probably thinking of Jeffrey Littman? He was Wilson's chief bean counter, and after Polian, and then Butler, were gone, the personnel dept didn't have anyone competent and confident enough to just override his (Littman's) influence and force Wilson's hand. 

 

Edit: turns out @BADOLBILZ already ID'd Littman as the unnamed accountant several posts above mine. That guy's (Littman's) influence definitely grew as the Bills were employing lower and lower profile HCs and GMs (which is where Ralph WAS actually cheap).

Edited November 5, 2023 by Richard Noggin

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

You're probably thinking of Jeffrey Littman? He was Wilson's chief bean counter, and after Polian, and then Butler, were gone, the personnel dept didn't have anyone competent and confident enough to just override his (Littman's) influence and force Wilson's hand. 

 

Edit: turns out @BADOLBILZ already ID'd Littman as the unnamed accountant several posts above mine. That guy's (Littman's) influence definitely grew as the Bills were employing lower and lower profile HCs and GMs (which is where Ralph WAS actually cheap).

My favorite drought era story was one that rarely gets talked about. Littman released Troy Vincent and they never even told head coach Dick Juaron.

 

I don’t think Littman made decisions though. He was just a cap guy and contract negotiator.

[Richard Noggin]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

My favorite drought era story was one that rarely gets talked about. Littman released Troy Vincent and they never even told head coach Dick Juaron.

 

I don’t think Littman made decisions though. He was just a cap guy and contract negotiator.

 

I think Littman gained significant influence over all expenditures once Butler left, and then even more so once Donahoe left. He became RW's proxy, essentially. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I think Littman gained significant influence over all expenditures once Butler left, and then even more so once Donahoe left. He became RW's proxy, essentially. 

Only when it came to the cap and contracts. 
 

I also might be thinking of Jim Overdorf. I get them confused.

 

[Richard Noggin]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Only when it came to the cap and contracts. 
 

I also might be thinking of Jim Overdorf. I get them confused.

 

 

Overdorf has persisted through it all, and mostly because he is a dutiful, ethical, excellent lawyer/accountant who never sought undue power. He used to catch some flack, but that guy is not to blame for any of the floundering. 

 

Littman had major influence over cap decisions and broad contract parameters, whereas Overdorf was the guy who made those green-lighted deals workable and well-constructed for all parties involved. I suspect Littman had major influence over all the non-cap salaries as well, meaning he had a hand in bringing in less expensive GMs, HCs and their staffs, scouting depts, etc. (And also played a major role in the more expensive, established names not even considering Buffalo, due to his (and RW's) reputation for interfering with football ops.)

 

ANYWAYS...Montez Sweat is probably underrated by many fans due to meh sack numbers and lesser draft status than Chase Young, but I'm pretty sure he has some solid secondary metrics, like pressures, hits, forced fumbles, etc. Kind of like when Jerry Hughes was obviously being disruptive for the Bills but wasn't recording a ton of sacks. Guess the Bears are gambling on him continuing to improve despite joining a much worse DL group? 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Richard Noggin

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, Process said:

In the past year the bears have 

 

- Traded a top 40 pick for a DE who has never had double digits sacks, and paid him $25M /yr

 

-Signed Edmunds to a contract paying him $18M /yr

 

- Traded the #32 pick for Chase Claypool only to basically cut him a year later 

 

😳

 

 

go bears !!!

 

13 hours ago, wppete said:

He’s a disaster. I wouldn’t be surprised if they pass on Caleb Williams if available to them at this point. 

 

I know one bears fan who is praying they dont draft Williams. Thinks hes overrated

 

 

[JoPoy88]

17 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

What. Are. The Bears. Doing?!

 

First of all, Sweat was a free agent after the year, they could’ve handed him the bag without losing a draft choice. No other team was paying Sweat close to $25M/yr. All this before they’ve even seen him take a snap in their defense. I could run that organization better and do it for less than half of what Poles is making 😅 Poor Bears fans.

Well that’s the rub - waiting for free agency potentially puts you in a bidding war for the guy, but trading a high asset for him to avoid that just gives the player more leverage in negotiation, since the GM would be skewered/fired for giving away a 2nd rd pick for a rental. 

[The 9 Isles]

Stupid teams do stupid things to their own teams but in the process these contracts screw over the other teams too by escalating the pay scale. 

[machine gun kelly]

7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Overdorf has persisted through it all, and mostly because he is a dutiful, ethical, excellent lawyer/accountant who never sought undue power. He used to catch some flack, but that guy is not to blame for any of the floundering. 

 

Littman had major influence over cap decisions and broad contract parameters, whereas Overdorf was the guy who made those green-lighted deals workable and well-constructed for all parties involved. I suspect Littman had major influence over all the non-cap salaries as well, meaning he had a hand in bringing in less expensive GMs, HCs and their staffs, scouting depts, etc. (And also played a major role in the more expensive, established names not even considering Buffalo, due to his (and RW's) reputation for interfering with football ops.)

 

ANYWAYS...Montez Sweat is probably underrated by many fans due to meh sack numbers and lesser draft status than Chase Young, but I'm pretty sure he has some solid secondary metrics, like pressures, hits, forced fumbles, etc. Kind of like when Jerry Hughes was obviously being disruptive for the Bills but wasn't recording a ton of sacks. Guess the Bears are gambling on him continuing to improve despite joining a much worse DL group? 

Noggin, as always, right on the $ with Sweat.  His secondary evaluations are impressive and good for him in a solid contract.  If a team wants to pay that much for a pass rusher, then it’s their money.  That’s the point of capitalism.  If they made a mistake, they’ll pay for their choices down to road.

 

The real opportunity for the Bears is to find a solid President of football operations, GM, then HC.  Follow the McBeane playbook.  Purge guys like Brandon and Wrex, and replace with the right people.  Purge bad contracts, build with sound draft decisions, and buy intelligently role players.  What did McBeane do by 2019, they had been drafting well, got rid of Darius, and Sammy, and they bought an O Line.  People can complain about the line, but it was better than in 18.  
 

Until the Halas family starts making good decisions, they will continue to flounder even with Ngakoue, Sweat, Edmunds, and so on.  They need to find their Josh Allen.  My advice, is have mgmt make every attempt to tank, get Caleb, and buy an O Line.  From there they can build a team and with the Packers finally rudderless with a QB thank god for the last 30 years they’ve run the NFCN.

 

Detroit is the new hot team in the north and they have built a team in the right way.  People laughed at Campbell until they finally came around to accepting he knew what he was doing.

[Brand J]

3 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Well that’s the rub - waiting for free agency potentially puts you in a bidding war for the guy, but trading a high asset for him to avoid that just gives the player more leverage in negotiation, since the GM would be skewered/fired for giving away a 2nd rd pick for a rental. 

They’re not a defensive end away from being competitive. Any team that doesn’t have an established starting QB has to find that guy first before beefing up the roster, that’s why these other bottom feeders are sellers, they need cheap rookie contracts. And I still don’t believe the Bears would’ve had to outbid some other team in free agency and arrive at a number that was MORE than what they just signed him for.