How Good is Josh Allen Really?

[Warcodered]

I really hope we win this week, because this week has been tough.

[Chicken Boo]

3 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Buffalo has 6 INTS. One less than KC and PHI, and tied with Miami.

 

I think you're stuck in week 1.

 

 

7 turnovers in 6 games.  Over a 17 week season that adds up.

 

  

 

[Alphadawg7]

57 minutes ago, Success said:

Mahomes has clunkers. Burrow DEFINITELY has clunkers.

 

I find myself watching Mahomes, and when he makes a mistake, thinking "Allen would get slammed for that."  

 

It always seems to me like JA has much less margin for error, and when he makes mistakes, the reaction is more about "a pattern" than the fact that he's just a great player who makes mistakes or has bad games once in awhile.  If I had to guess, I'd say it was because it took him awhile to become the QB he is today, and people formed opinions about him during his 1st couple of years, which were very different.

 

 

THIS times 100000%

 

Ive never seen a player of Allens caliber get held to such a crazy standard of perfection or he sucks type barometer.  For example, last year he was labeled a "redzone turnover machine"...even though he only had 1 turnover in the redzone his whole career prior to last year and again has none this year.  But the moment he makes a couple, its now some pandemic level problem he has already had by these crusaders.

 

The narrative after the Jets game was Bills have not gotten over the hump because of Allens turnovers.  Well his only real shots at a SB were 2021 and 2022 (This team wasn't ready as a whole to be better than KC in 2020)...and in both those games turnovers had zero to do with Bills being eliminated from the playoffs.  In fact, one was considered one of the greatest QB performances in NFL history.  The only turnover he had was on the last play of the Bengals game heaving the ball down field in the snow down 3 scores and the game over.  Turnovers literally had zero to do with our loss which was a total team failure as we were beaten bad in ever facet of the game.  

 

Furthermore, coming into 2023, over the past 2 seasons Mahomes only has 4 less interceptions, and Burrow only had 3 less.  YET...Mahomes has a superior OL and better weapons over that window to Allen, and Burrow had far superior weapons during that span.  Plus, Josh played more than half a season with a hurt throwing elbow missing no time and playing through it when most QB's would have missed 4-6 weeks.  Not to mention the worse weather Allen plays in and stress the team and Buffalo faced last year.  

 

It makes no sense either...Josh is easily one of the most likable people in the NFL, but people are so dedicated to being right about their pre draft stuff about him sucking that they can't help themselves.  And when the Bills lose, people pile on Josh right away.  When KC loses, its never Mahomes fault.  When Burrow loses, it's never his fault, there is always an excuse.  

Edited October 20, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Dr.Sack]

The best dual-threat QB in the NFL. Unfortunately the Bills are trying to take away his dual threat ability and make him a mono-threat. 

[MJS]

He's very good, but he has the ability to play poorly. His ceiling is as high as any QB in NFL history. His floor is lower than some of the other elite QB's in the game right now.

 

But what is great about him is his ability to keep getting better and raising that floor.

[HOUSE]

Let me say this, I am not trading him for any starting NFL quarterback. 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

7 turnovers in 6 games.  Over a 17 week season that adds up.

 

  

 

 

Right, which is still less than his peers.

 

HALF those turnovers came in week 1.

 

 

[Reader]

41 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Josh Allen is the most handsome, butch, masculine QB I've ever pictured naked

 

Yeah, but would he even be MORE handsome with an offensive minded HC?

[Milanos Milano]

43 minutes ago, stuvian said:

A cross between Mahomes and Cam Newton 

Lol Josh isn’t in Mahomes orbit. Mahomes has proven to win super bowls without top WR help. Something really only Brady has proven to do. 

Josh has Diggs and still can’t bring home the big one. There is some truth to “How much does Josh Allen need!!” 

[SoonerBillsFan]

53 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Hes the 2nd best QB in football right now.   If he keeps up the numbers he's a hall of famer.  So overall, really good.

I don't give a damn about numbers or HOF. Win us a damn superbowl!!!   

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I would fight anyone who says a QB has ever played a better game than Josh against NE and then the KC 13 sec game…they even changed OT rules so that ending couldn’t happen again, since we all know Josh would’ve scored again 👍👍. 

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

I don't give a damn about numbers or HOF. Win us a damn superbowl!!!   

Mahomes won a Super Bowl without Hill. I sincerely doubt Allen wins a Super Bowl without Diggs, when he can’t even win one with Diggs. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Reader said:

 

Yeah, but would he even be MORE handsome with an offensive minded HC?

Yes.  There is nothing left to say.   Get him a good OC minded HC and see what happens 

1 minute ago, Araiza Curse said:

Mahomes won a Super Bowl without Hill. I sincerely doubt Allen wins a Super Bowl without Diggs, when he can’t even win one with Diggs. 

He won it because he had an outstanding HC who calls the plays

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Just now, Araiza Curse said:

Mahomes won a Super Bowl without Hill. I sincerely doubt Allen wins a Super Bowl without Diggs, when he can’t even win one with Diggs. 

The game cannot be reduced to the QB with or without one WR. The rest of the supporting cast, luck, and oh ya, coaching, matter more imho. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

Ehh, Not bad for a Farm Boy!!🤠

 

[balln]

Lol . Tyreke?

 

kelce is better / more valuable than tyreke and diggs 

 

let’s not say mahommes has done this all w nobody……… 

 

kelce is an elite once in a blue moon impact offensive weapon . Prob will be the best TE that every played 

[loyal2dagame]

[BuffaloBill]

53 minutes ago, Logic said:

Fair question.

I think that Josh Allen is a no-doubt-about-it top five QB. Probably top 3. 

He is on pace to have a Hall of Fame level career. One championship will make it a no-brainer.

I think that Josh Allen can sometimes be beaten mentally. Certain defenses and defensive coordinators know how to get into his head, make him question what he's seeing, not trust his eyes, and overthink things. We've seen it against the Jets. We've seen it two years in a row against the Jaguars. We saw it against Wink Martindale and the Giants. The Steelers gave him fits the first two times he played them.

Josh Allen's greatest opponent is his own mind. When he's feeling confident, gets into a rhythm, and trusts what he sees, he's nearly unstoppable. That's not hyperbole -- when he's in that zone, he very literally CANNOT be stopped. When he can't get into a rhythm, is lacking in confidence, is not trusting what he's seeing, he becomes his own worst enemy. He starts pressing and overthinking things and the offense grinds to a halt.

So to answer the original question succinctly: Josh Allen is elite, and may go down as one of the greatest of all time. He is not without weaknesses, though, and his primary weakness is the ability of the opposition to beat him mentally via quality defensive scheming and by making him question what he's seeing.

 

 

Well said^^^ 

 

No doubt JA will be a 1st ballot HOF’er if he gets a Lombardi (or 5 please) and statistically he continues on his current trajectory.

 

What’s maybe is the most amazing to me is that he has not hit his ceiling yet.  He has improved every year so far.

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The game cannot be reduced to the QB with or without one WR. The rest of the supporting cast, luck, and oh ya, coaching, matter more imho. 

I’m done making excuses for Allen. When you compare rosters vs KC. I don’t see that much of an advantage. 

 

We need to start identifying the problems. is it coaching or is it talent? If you guys truly believe that Allen is being held back, then we need to do something about that before he is totally wasted and not wait around. 

[BananaB]

Really, he’s ***** awesome. Too bad we don’t have a GM and coach that use draft picks and FA money on the O like Beane and McD do for this defence. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 minute ago, Araiza Curse said:

I’m done making excuses for Allen. When you compare rosters vs KC. I don’t see that much of an advantage. 

 

We need to start identifying the problems. is it coaching or is it talent? If you guys truly believe that Allen is being held back, then we need to do something about that before he is totally wasted and not wait around. 

Coaching matters. If the rosters are on par, then that’s the main difference. I’m definitely not a huge Dorsey fan or enjoy him cutting his learning curve teeth at this offense’s expense. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

I heard he's a parody of an NFL quarterback because math. 

 

I watch game highlights of all the other QBs and all they do is throw touchdowns every play! Why doesn't Josh?

[BananaB]

14 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

Lol Josh isn’t in Mahomes orbit. Mahomes has proven to win super bowls without top WR help. Something really only Brady has proven to do. 

Josh has Diggs and still can’t bring home the big one. There is some truth to “How much does Josh Allen need!!” 

Before Mahommes the Chiefs were racking up double digit win seasons with the same cast. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Coaching matters. If the rosters are on par, then that’s the main difference. I’m definitely not a huge Dorsey fan or enjoy him cutting his learning curve teeth at this offense’s expense. 

Well we are stuck then. McD and Beane just got an extension. Maybe McD cans Dorsey, but I doubt it. 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

14 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

Mahomes won a Super Bowl without Hill. I sincerely doubt Allen wins a Super Bowl without Diggs, when he can’t even win one with Diggs. 

Mahomes has one of the all time greatest receiving TEs in football.  Let's not pretend he had no hall of fame weapons at his disposal.

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Mahomes has one of the all time greatest receiving TEs in football.  Let's not pretend he had no hall of fame weapons at his disposal.

What excuse will you guys come up with next when Kelce retires and Mahomes still wins a Super Bowl with a rookie TE? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Good Josh is incredible….. sugar high bad Josh is a train wreck 

[eball]

Can Sunday at 1 pm please get here already?

[BaaadThingsMan]

Bomb diggity

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

5 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

What excuse will you guys come up with next when Kelce retires and Mahomes still wins a Super Bowl with a rookie TE? 

Do I have to make up an excuse now, Or can I wait to see if that scenario happens?  You know, since Mahomes hasn't had to play a single season without his future first ballot hall of famer Kelce.

Edited October 20, 2023 by HereComesTheReignAgain

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

This place sometimes.  SMH

[Billsfan1972]

Good enough to keep many on the coaching staff employed and many overrated?🤣😜

Edited October 20, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[jwhit34]

But has he ever caught his own pass like Herbert did Monday night?

 

To quote RJ, he's good, scary good.

 

Outside of Mahomes, is there anyone else in the NFL right now that you would consider trading Allen for straight up? The answer is no, with an admitted dose of Buffalo bias, I don't know if I trade him for Mahomes. 

 

And like others, I thought this frivolity was confined to the preseason. 

[RG Murdock]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

We all know fans who believe McD should be fired if we don't get to the Super Bowl when we have Josh Allen as our QB.

 

But Josh has given us some clunkers.  There are games when he bails out of the pocket when he doesn't need to, makes bad decisions with the ball, and delivers errant throws.

 

But are Josh's subpar games truly his fault?

Sometimes I put the blame squarely on Dorsey for poor play design and bad play-calling.

 

And when I blame Dorsey, McD deserves his share of blame too.  He made Dorsey the OC and oversees the entire team.  He doesn't escape culpability.

 

But sometimes I blame the receivers who, at times, struggle to gain separation.  (Though maybe that's more of a Dorsey problem).  

And some games I blame the OL.  Josh has spent much of his career in Buffalo scrambling for his life.

 

Of course, Beane deserves some blame, too.  He's never prioritized the OL.  You would think that when you've found a generational QB, you'd build a line to protect his health and well-being as well as give him time to throw.  Beane didn't do that.  

 

There are days when Josh looks like one of the best to ever play the game.  Other times, not so much.  So, I've been wondering how good Josh really is and who's principally to blame when he's not as productive and efficient as he 'ought' to be.  

C'mon. This is nothing but caveat filled word salad. Sadly, anyone with a keyboard can post and waste our time with pointless gibberish. These same generalized comments could apply to Daniel Jones, or Bryce Young. The moderators should have higher standards here.    

[QB Bills]

Have Andy Reid call plays for one season for Allen and watch every QB record fall.

 

The chasm in coaching between Allen and Mahomes cannot be overstated. The Chiefs have no name receivers running wide open 5 yards from the LOS every game. It's  the most QB friendly system I've ever seen.

[RobbRiddick]

51 minutes ago, Reader said:

 

Yeah, but would he even be MORE handsome with an offensive minded HC?

Either that or a good barber 

[78thealltimegreat]

44 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

I’m done making excuses for Allen. When you compare rosters vs KC. I don’t see that much of an advantage. 

 

We need to start identifying the problems. is it coaching or is it talent? If you guys truly believe that Allen is being held back, then we need to do something about that before he is totally wasted and not wait around. 

Your tag name is Areizas curse I highly doubt you would care if Allen won the rest of his career 

[julian]

I won’t argue about a guy with 2 titles and 2 MVPs being the best QB in the league, I think those achievements along with the eye test is unparalleled at this point.

 

 That being said, when I watch every QB play the game of football, I see Allen doing things on the field of play that no other QBs are capable of. It’s at the point now where I watch Mahomes play and it’s like watching a smaller less athletic version of Allen.

[Motorin']

45 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I watch game highlights of all the other QBs and all they do is throw touchdowns every play! Why doesn't Josh?

 

He needs to start throwing at least 3 TD's per play before I start considering him "good."

[Demongyz]

He's the best QB the Bills have ever had, so there is that.