How good is the Bills new starting defense?

[Process]

Miller-Phillips-Oliver-Rousseau

Williams-Bernard

Jackson-Johnson-Poyer-Hyde-Benford

 

With Floyd AJE Ford as additional depth that will get a lot of playing time

 

That still looks pretty good to me? 

 

CB depth is a concern, we have none. Also WLB, but that's probably the least important position on D.

 

With McDermott as DC, is this still a top 5 unit? 10? 15?

 

And with a top X defense, is our offense good/consistent enough to still win a Superbowl?

 

Last week sucked, but we still have a top 2 QB, top 5 WR, and solid pass blocking o line. If they can go into the playoffs playing their best ball, unlike last year, Bills are still a Superbowl favorite, IMO. 

[Billl]

If Von is back close to what he was before, the front 4 is very good.  The LBs are okay, and the secondary is bad.  It’s serviceable overall, but the offense is going to have to be consistently elite if this team is going anywhere.

[Einstein]

I wouldn’t assume Williams is the starter. I think it will be a split role.

 

The real problem is the secondary. It’s in shambles.

Not just due to injury. But also age.

[starrymessenger]

Before London and with McD at the helm I could see it top 5. Not sure where we are now but it's not the same place. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If you tell me Williams is actually going to start I’ll be happy. 

[Low Positive]

We haven't actually seem them play yet, so I don't know. I would have to think that McDermott is adjusting the scheme to take some of the coverage load off of the OLB, but we don't know how he'll do that.

[transplantbillsfan]

Yes... still a top 5-10 unit. 

[Gugny]

Not a playoff defense by any stretch. 

[Franco_92]

Hopefully still at least average. It can't be worse than the 2020 defense and that's the furthest we've gone. That unit had a horrible line, ok LB corps and good secondary 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Not a playoff defense by any stretch. 

You are wrong here Gugs.

[BuffaloBillyG]

Talent wise before losing White, Milano and Jones this was a top 5 unit. And it translated to the field. After losing that much talent this probably drops them to top 10-12 on paper. We we see how it translates to actual play.

 

In my eyes everything that a defense does is set off the pass rush...and ours is still near the top of the league. Even losing a bit of pass rush juice Jones brought. If we can still apply pressure it masks the lack of speed in the back half. It helps the boundary CBs have to cover for less time. It makes life easier for everyone.

 

Talent wise we may be down, but let's see what McDermott can do and will do scheme wise to make up for it. Thankfully, we have the Giants and Patriots back to back and it will give them the ability to try some things out and see where they stand.

[frostbitmic]

It's not as good as it was before the London trip.

 

The loss of Jones at DT will likely hurt the least as DT was solid with depth, though he's the soul of this defense.

Losing Tre' hurts bad ... There's some decent depth here but Tre' was just rounding back to form and is still the best CB on the team.

Losing Milano, the Heart of this defense will hurt real bad. Bernard has looked real good as a first year starter, second year player, Williams and everyone else is very raw, except Klein who was getting old a few seasons ago.

 

There isn't anybody that can step into these three positions and not lose a beat or two on this roster. I expect the defense to regress, after playing the Giants that is. Over a quarter of our starting defense are already done for the year.

[Process]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Not a playoff defense by any stretch. 

Paired with the Patriots offense? Sure not a playoff defense. 

 

With our offense, if clicking at the end of the year, still plenty good enough. IMO. 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

You are wrong here Gugs.

I hope so!!

[julian]

23 minutes ago, Billl said:

If Von is back close to what he was before, the front 4 is very good.  The LBs are okay, and the secondary is bad.  It’s serviceable overall, but the offense is going to have to be consistently elite if this team is going anywhere.

I believe McDermott and his scheme will apply enough lipstick to the secondary to get by, if the Dline continues to get the pressure we’ve seen up to this point this defense should finish top 10, more than good enough to accomplish all their goals.

[BillsUberAlles]

Good enough to stay in the top 12 in the NFL which means plenty good enough to win the SB. Better than KC's D the last two times they won.

 

Make no mistake, if we don't, it will not be due to the defense not being good enough.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

I hope we find out vs. Cincy.  If they don't look competent against their next three opponents, there is huge concern.

[finn]

45 minutes ago, Einstein said:

The real problem is the secondary. It’s in shambles.

Not just due to injury. But also age.

What do you think of Rapp replacing Poyer? Poyer seems to have lost a step, even more than Hyde, whose play also has seemed pedestrian (to my inexpert eye). 

 

I haven't given up on Elam yet. I'm guessing that confidence is the key problem now. McD. seems to prefer system CBs who are in the right place and tackle well, whereas Elam's strengths are his size, speed and length, which allow him to jam and then stick to the WR. Riding the bench because he's not good at what he's not good at might have led him to believe he's not good at anything. 

 

In other words, to tap into Elam's strengths, McD. might have to change his expectations, and maybe even his defense. He might not have a choice at this point.

 

I'm talking about this starting lineup: Benford, Elam, Rapp, Hyde, Johnson. Jackson, Poyer, and Hamlin backing up. The key is Elam. 

[BillsUberAlles]

40 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Not a playoff defense by any stretch. 

 

Wrong...it's still better than KC's defense that won 2 super bowls by a lot.

56 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I wouldn’t assume Williams is the starter. I think it will be a split role.

 

The real problem is the secondary. It’s in shambles.

Not just due to injury. But also age.

 

The secondary is in better shape than it was last year early in the year.

[akcash]

Thanks for making this thread I was literally thinking this exact thing last night. Its arguable that we are still the same level if Benford and Dane can keep playing at a high level. Obviously a drop off at linebacker but I'm curious to see what Dorian has after a few games under his belt. He could settle in nicely.

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, BillsUberAlles said:

 

Wrong...it's still better than KC's defense that won 2 super bowls by a lot.

 

The secondary is in better shape than it was last year early in the year.

You watch the game last week?

[Billzgobowlin]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I wouldn’t assume Williams is the starter. I think it will be a split role.

 

The real problem is the secondary. It’s in shambles.

Not just due to injury. But also age.

Highly overstated.  Poyer last year was a pro bowler and now everyone says he lost a step.  Hyde is looking as good as ever.  The only issue right now long term is losing White

[balln]

When it’s all said and done Bills will have the worst rush D in the league. They were always soft up the middle , now w DQ out , and two tiny LBs and elam who can’t tackle. And our 2nd wave DEs that can’t set an edge. 
 

but who cares ( i think) it’s a passing league. Just be elite at pass rushing. Alas. I think Dane benford and elam can be had 1 on 1 matchups to boundary. 
 

IMO a team like cincy will Make our D look really

bad 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Process said:

Miller-Phillips-Oliver-Rousseau

Williams-Bernard

Jackson-Johnson-Poyer-Hyde-Benford

 

With Floyd AJE Ford as additional depth that will get a lot of playing time

 

That still looks pretty good to me? 

 

CB depth is a concern, we have none. Also WLB, but that's probably the least important position on D.

 

With McDermott as DC, is this still a top 5 unit? 10? 15?

 

And with a top X defense, is our offense good/consistent enough to still win a Superbowl?

 

Last week sucked, but we still have a top 2 QB, top 5 WR, and solid pass blocking o line. If they can go into the playoffs playing their best ball, unlike last year, Bills are still a Superbowl favorite, IMO. 

 

I don't think we're going to see Phillips as 3T playing next to Oliver as 1T. 

 

At least until they prove it doesn't work, we're going to see Oliver and Phillips playing next to Settle and Poona Ford.

[BillsUberAlles]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

You watch the game last week?

 

I don't count anything from that game as real. Goodell's experiment was a failure. Doubt we see that happen again.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

If Von is back close to what he was before, the front 4 is very good.  The LBs are okay, and the secondary is bad.  It’s serviceable overall, but the offense is going to have to be consistently elite if this team is going anywhere.

 

Well, I have a trifecta of disagreement.

 

DaQuan Jones was the heart and soul of that DL.  Miller, Rousseau and Floyd depend on pressure up the middle to do their thing.  So losing Jones is huge.  Settle was a big step down last season but he is in a contract year and motivated to earn one.  Ford was misused as a 3T or edge last season and everyone seems to feel he's better as a NT or 1T.  He wasn't on the bench cuz he sucks, he was on the bench because Jones was clearly better and Settle more versatile.  It remains to be seen how Settle and Ford work out.  Oliver and Philips both do their best work as 3TDT.  Oliver can play 1T but it's a waste of his best skills. 

 

Bottom line, we don't know how good the front 4 without Jones will be

 

The LB are "okay" - again, we don't know how much of Bernard's excellent performance to date was having Milano next to him.  We don't know if/how McDermott et al will adjust Milano's role to one Williams, Dodson, or Klein can fill, and we don't know if Williams can play (didn't look too good last Sunday but everyone has a first time).

 

Bottom line, we don't know how good the LB without Milano will be.

 

The secondary is bad - Bills had a top-10 pass defense last season with Jackson and Benford playing as CB the majority of the season, and with Hamlin (a lesser player) in for Hyde and Poyer playing hurt.  Bottom line, no secondary is good if you give the QB all week, but potentially they can hold up OK as they did last year.

[jahnyc]

I think opposing teams will find a lot to exploit with our LBs and CBs.  Benford, Williams and Bernard are inexperienced and while I like Jackson, he does seem to be a step late on many plays.

 

Our DL will help, and getting pressure on the QB in passing situations will be even more critical now.  I think the loss of Jones will hurt significantly with our run defense and I don't see a reserve defensive lineman on the roster that can fill that role.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

If they can still get home with four they will be elite

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

Dodson got twice as many snaps as Williams after Milano went down, and Dodson played much better in my opinion (Dorian whiffed on a number of tackles)

 

It's up to Rousseau and Miller to elevate our pass rush to make up for other deficiencies on defense.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Allen2Diggs

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

This defense will make up for the injuries through takeaways. 

[mannc]

It’s probably still a top 12 defense, which should be good enough with our top 3 (or better) 100% healthy offense. 

[Dr.Sack]

Ironically it’s the rush defense, not the pass defense that has let us down. Losing Milano, and Jones is a bigger blow imho to fixing the rush defense. I don’t mind the pass defense getting burned long so long as they can get the QB consistently as it’s proven fact the ability to get off the field and not endure long sustained drives is what causes a defense to wear down and get injuries. 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

Not a playoff defense by any stretch. 

 

I don't see why it would do any worse than our playoff defenses more often than not over the past few seasons.  

 

 

Seems like a solid pass D overall, our secondary was gutted last season too.  

 

It's the run D that should be of concern.  

 

But McD's a "defensive genius" and insists on bucking conventional wisdom constantly, so I'm sure he's got it figured out.  

 

Fortunately for this game all we're up against are former Bills backups Breida and Hodgins, along with an injured Waller, an injured Barkley, if both even play, and Slayton, another depth caliber WR.  

 

Honestly, if our B-team cannot win this game ... 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by PBF81

[T master]

Once Von gets back to full speed & as long every one can stay healthy for the remainder of the season this D can still be one that other teams will cringe when they have to play them . 

 

GO BILLS  !!! 

[BullBuchanan]

Without White, Jones and Milano, I think this will be a bottom 15-10 caliber unit. People really don't appreciate what Jones does for this defense. The whole unit revolves around him, imo. If Benford misses significant time, I expect us to be worse than that. We'll get bailed out in the stats by a soft schedule where we get to play some truly awful offenses, but I expect to get completely lit up in January against good teams.

[Mikie2times]

I don’t think it’s hard to look at our past few years and figure we will probably be somewhere among those teams. 

[Success]

It's not as good as it was a few weeks ago - but I still would have it in the 5-10 range in the league rankings.  The front will still be among the best at getting pressure on the QB, and the LB's and secondary are both solid.  

 

All this talk of the Bills having to win shootouts now - it's kind of mystifying to me.  We've been one of the best defenses in terms of keeping opponents from scoring.  Even though we're not as strong w/out Milano & White, it's not like we're going from that to giving up 20-30 a game or something.

 

[billsfan89]

Still a very strong top 5-10 defense that I suspect if it has a smaller need like CB depth or the need for a starting DT or LB will get some support at the trade deadline 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Highly overstated.  Poyer last year was a pro bowler and now everyone says he lost a step.  Hyde is looking as good as ever.  The only issue right now long term is losing White

Last year Tyler Huntley was a Pro Bowler. The year before Mac Jones was a Pro Bowler. People need to stop using that as a justification on someone's current play level. Aside from some contractual language and bonus money it's meaningless.

 

That being said, age and injury have definitely caught up to Poyer and had an adverse reaction to his play. The thing that he (and Hyde) still have is experience in the system, experience with each other and great communication. However, physically he just isn't what he was...and that happens. He lost a step when physically he didn't have many steps to lose.

 

 

[BuffaloMatt]

I'm not sure what stage of football injury grieving this is but I also find myself trying to convince myself that this defense can compete with the top offenses. I think DT is the only position where the backup could start on another team. I really want to believe in our LBs and there is a glimmer of hope. No faith in CBs, they are dinged up and and the heathy look like backups. Poyer, sad to say is looking old, might be time for Rapp who looked good against Miami. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by BuffaloMatt