Singular point imo when Josh started regressing

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That’s true. I think McD is in the top half of coaches at least personally. 

If this season goes south, I think that a change will be needed. It's not that McDermott is a bad coach but I think that the locker room needs a new voice.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

If this season goes south, I think that a change will be needed. It's not that McDermott is a bad coach but I think that the locker room needs a new voice.

I think that’s reasonable too. But imo, Dorsey is the first on the block

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There were plenty of open guys. Honestly. Diggs wasn't actually open that much because as soon as he edged towards a defender's zone, that defender was on him. There were plays where Diggs was triple covered.

 

That isn't to say that the wide receiver were perfect by any means.... but the Bills had open receivers in the short and intermediate zones plenty on Monday. Josh just wasn't throwing to them.

 

The Jets D did a great job, but Diggs still had 10 catches. 

 

I also think a lot of the plays where it seemed like another receiver was wide open wasn't really. There was usually a Jets defender keyed on the underneath and intermediate receive and ready to trigger to make it a contested catch or immediate tackle as soon as the ball was grown. 

 

I do want to watch the All 22 and see how many truly open receivers he missed. Have you checked it out?  

[78thealltimegreat]

47 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

For the record, the RT for the Jags was the same one who is now in the news about cheating for the Chiefs.  And yes, he was doing it just as bad back then.

 

 

Gotta learn from the way Tua and the Fish took what the Chargers were giving them.  They were for some reason happy to give Tua his strength of throwing over the middle, until they panicked and started crashing the middle only to leave Hill open down the sidelines for easy TDs.

 

But as for our receivers being little mites who can't make contested catches?  Huh?  Diggs is no giant but he makes contested catches all the time.  Davis is a big boy who also makes them.  Then there's our tight ends, plenty of guys you must be confusing with our slot receivers.

Please show me the last contested catch that Gabe has made honestly I’m willing to overlook his bad hands if you can 

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Just FYI - Knox and Kincaid were both timed between 4.65 and 4.7. Fine for a Tight End, but certainly not clear-out quickness.

 

 

I agree with you, but I think it is a bit of both.

Here is an example of what I was mentioning earlier.

 

 

See this mess of 3 defenders on the Orange and Green routes? This happened because:
 

1) The orange route didn't get vertical enough, quickly enough, which put no pressure on the safety to cover the endzone, resulting in the safety coming down and being able to be a third defender. 

 

2) If you look at Allen, he is about to get smacked by a Jets defender. So we have a situation where Allen has to get rid of the ball, but the clear out receiver has cleared nothing out. He actually did the opposite - he made it a mess, and this is what ensures. It's amazing this actually turned out okay.

By the time the ball gets to the receiver, there are 4 defenders there. If you don't make a team defend every part of the field, they won't. And that results in a densely populated field to operate your offense.

 

Knox ran a 4.59 at the combine and reportedly a 4.57 at Ole Miss pro day. Kincaid didn’t run due to injury but was asked what his time would’ve been if he had and he said “in the 4.5s.” He plays that fast too, neither TE is slow so I’m not sure where you’re getting those numbers.

And true about both being issues, spacing and timing.

[AuntieEm]

5 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Tua has Cheetah and Waddle

Hurts has AJ Brown, Devonta Smith and the best O Line in football

Mahomes has Kelce and a top 3 oline and the best offensive mind in football as a head coach.

We have Allen, Diggs [who does not scare defenses like Cheetah, Waddle, Brown, Bengals trio] and an O-line in the BOTTOM third of the league.

The biggest issue is the clownshow on ol.  Josh doesn't avoid hits so he has gotten his clock run enough that it is a  concern.  He doesn't look for the smart plays to begin with so when his judgement is muddled via a hit to the noggin or just the rush of his chaos then it leads to these 'wth' was that plays.  It's also lead to wow that was an amazing play as well that's why he keeps going to his bag of chaos. It's what got him all the accolades. He has to learn to play NFL quarterback and shelve the backyard football antics.  May miss a few of those wow plays but I'll trade those for more  methodical matriculation down the field.  There will still be the moments for him to create from chaos as football will always have some if those moments when you pit two talented teams against one another. He just has to take the boring and wait for the moments to do his deez Nutz plays.

[maddenboy]

52 minutes ago, Radar said:

Just as a reminder we've played one game. Monday night Josh was bad but can we give him a few more games please. 

as a reminder, Josh himself said basically "same shtt, different day."

 

seems JA17 is acknowledging, himself, that it was more than just a single, one-off, bad day.   He is saying the same shtt from last season is still not fixed.

 

And if there is something that was not fixed last season, and not yet fixed during an entire off-season, and it looked that bad during game 1, then you need to offer a little more reason why just giving him "a few more games please" is going to see everything get fixed.

 

[NewEra]

Ok ok.  Here’s the deal.  Halftime of the packer game is exactly when Josh’s QB play took a drastic turn for the worse.  Here’s why:  

 

I was sitting at Moondoggies with my normal crew plus my other buddy, who’s not a Bills fan.  I remember the conversation clearly.  My buddy turns and says to me “this is your year bro!  Josh is the best QB in the league!!”.  I had a nice euphoric buzz going on from his dazzling first half play and replied “If he keeps playing like this, he’ll be the best QB ever.   No QB has ever played THIS good.  No QB in history can do what he does on the field.  He’s pretty much unstoppable”.  He laughed at me and nodded his head in agreement……then Josh then became current Josh.  After we lost to the bengals in the playoffs, he says to me “you know you ruined his career during halftime of the packer game right?”  
 

mmmmhmmmm.  I remember too well.  
 

sorry all 😢 

 

 

 

 

[maddenboy]

it could just be that his ceiling is Brett favre.

 

Doesnt love the film study part.   Extreme and justified arm arrogance.   We will be in it every game. 

 

But its gonna be a rolller coaster.   Maybe we are waiting for somethign to smooth out, that is currently as smooth as it will ever be.

 

and its 10 million times better than the drought era.   We have a legit top NFL QB.   We have a legit shot every game.  But we, as fans, need to get used to it.

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Jets D did a great job, but Diggs still had 10 catches. 

 

I also think a lot of the plays where it seemed like another receiver was wide open wasn't really. There was usually a Jets defender keyed on the underneath and intermediate receive and ready to trigger to make it a contested catch or immediate tackle as soon as the ball was grown. 

 

I do want to watch the All 22 and see how many truly open receivers he missed. Have you checked it out?  

 

Yea I put myself through it on Wednesday night.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

43 minutes ago, Billl said:

Things aren’t simplified under center at all. They put Josh in shotgun because it makes his reads easier.  He’s never been great at processing, so forcing him to backpedal, turn his back to play fake, etc. works against him.  

Simplify is probably the wrong wording 

 

He is playing like a million things are going on in his head all at once. "Simplify" it so that he thinks one thing at a time

 

Make it more structured, more organized, make it so Josh has a check list of things to accomplish in a certain order

[Big Blitz]

54 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Did you happen to see what the Browns D line did to the Bengals last week?

 

Yea.  But the Bengals were 0-2 last year and Burrow didn’t practice in August either.  
 

They have a track record of being bad and figuring it out.  Plus the Browns D might be elite.  
 

 

I did think this might be a year the defenses catch the offenses to some extent.  
 

Where elite Offenses have meh days vs good defenses.  Good offenses will have bad days for mid defenses.  
 

Great to Elite defenses might give every O problems regardless of QB.  We could be one of them.     

 

Staying ahead of the curve are teams that built olines and have RBs - Philly - who has the best GM in the league.  KC built a great Oline and try to be somewhat balanced on O.  Same the Bengals.   

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If there's two words I could never hear ever again, it'd be "concerned" and "regression."

 

 

Then the MVP chants will start again when Josh puts on a clinic against the Raiders. I prefer to stay grounded. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

 I’m not sure where you’re getting those numbers.

Here is where I got them. Apologies if they are incorrect.

 

[Radar]

1 hour ago, maddenboy said:

as a reminder, Josh himself said basically "same shtt, different day."

 

seems JA17 is acknowledging, himself, that it was more than just a single, one-off, bad day.   He is saying the same shtt from last season is still not fixed.

 

And if there is something that was not fixed last season, and not yet fixed during an entire off-season, and it looked that bad during game 1, then you need to offer a little more reason why just giving him "a few more games please" is going to see everything get fixed.

 

Fair enough. How many games has he impacted largely to wins? How many games can we say he was major factor in our losses? Maybe my memories failing me but I think he's on whole a very positive effect. Monday night was I believe his worst game and did cost a win. I'm not ignoring his tendencies to turn the ball over. I'm also not ignoring that particularly in playoffs this can't happen. Still some on here seem to be almost writing him off. I'm not because if it wasn't for him our losses over the time he's been here would be much greater. With all that accolades given to our defense over past few years I've seen them look pretty average on many games we've won by our ability to outscore teams with Josh being a big part.

[34-78-83]

All the same posters saying the same things they say in every other of the 15 related threads about this. Gotta make their same take in each for some reason.

 

Regression is the wrong word for what Josh did in the Jets game or in certain games the past few years.

 

Adrenaline management issues seems more relevant and accurate to me.

 

And no, this is not on some coach to correct. It is on him and him alone, and he's corrected it before.

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Need new coaches around him, not yes men who don't want to hurt Joshy's feelings.

 

Tua and Hurts are not as good but they are winning because they run the play as called. Very efficient. Mahomes has the most creative plays and his guys are typically wide open. It starts with good coaching and the discipline to efficiently run the play. When you are running around in chaos then it's not a surprise that the outcome is often chaos!

Last week we saw receivers nearly running into each other on routes.

Saw that last year as well.

 Seems there is some degree of miscommunication between plays called and perhaps adjustments called pre snap ?

 Otherwise , the players are sleeping and dont know the play call as designed ? Or the play call is just that bad , by design

 

 likely all the above in varying degrees

 Just hit the open guy right away.

Look left scan to the right. or vice versa and dont wait for something that might open

 Some body has to run the short hot route and make it work. beat the coverage or beat the man

Go Bills

7 hours ago, Westside said:

It’s only been one game!!! Good lord people love to over react. 

Last year carry over trauma lol

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Also starts with getting Josh some real help. Which is basically coaching and personnel. He needs a bigger stronger Oline he needs a real running back not this imposter we got in the backfield he also needs a real burner on the outside and more Wrs that can get Yac . Basically other then a few we got to change the whole offense. The players we must keep are Allen, Diggs, Kincaid and Torrence every one else pretty much can be replaced including Dawkins at LT. I’m not saying all this needs to be done in 1 off-season but definitely needs to get started soon. 

The running backs are a fine blend actually. Best we have had in years

 

lol at the bolded. Sorry Nate

[oldmanfan]

5 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

This is the mindless overreaction scenario to a really disappointing performance by a QB in the first game of the season. Congratulations, you uncovered the chronology of the breakdown of an All Pro QB, who went 13and 3 in a year where the team faced emotional challenges unlike any in the history of the league along with losing their best defensive player. Besides leading the league in TDs and winning the division the last 3 seasons, the guy is the unquestioned leader of the team. He deserves better than this foolishness served up by our unappreciative experts that try and cast doubt on a guy the turned this downtrodden franchise into winners. Maybe it was the risotto he ate after the Packers game that started his downward spiral. He did have a sour stomach for days after.

He sucked Monday night.  He’ll play much better going forward.  But teams are doing things now on D that he needs to adjust to.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If I'm going full conspiracy theory, then I'm looking at the week BEFORE the Packers game. The Bye week.

 

Josh had a big Halloween party at his place Saturday night of the Bye.. Practically the entire team was there.

 

Something happened at that party that changed the course of the team.

it was Rodgers dosing everyone with his enlightenment tincture
pure freak out

[Green Lightning]

5 hours ago, Brandon said:

 

That's true,  but it's also somewhat a function of throwing more passes than most other teams.  Matt Stafford had a higher interception percentage than Josh Allen in both 2021 and 2022 (Allen was 17th and 24th, respectively).  Stafford led the league in total INTs in 2021.  They won the Super Bowl that year. 

 

These days,   QBs are throwing so few interceptions that a few more than average is not necessarily the end of the world. 

Tell yourself what you want. Josh has to own this. When he is frustrated by a defense that won't let him throw deep, he gets reckless and makes critical mistakes. He refuses to take what is given.  DCs know it and the Jets gave a master class in it last Monday. 

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Things aren’t simplified under center at all. They put Josh in shotgun because it makes his reads easier.  He’s never been great at processing, so forcing him to backpedal, turn his back to play fake, etc. works against him.  

Hmmm. Methink he over thinks what he sees

 Put him under center and play fast. Let the guards and tackles and Morris/Knox get some push for a few series or a qtr even

[Straight Hucklebuck]

There it is again, the Bills coaching staff actively covering up concussions” theory.

 

We’ve got the covert concussion theory and the press clippings theory.

 

Top notch…

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Success]

46 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Tell yourself what you want. Josh has to own this. When he is frustrated by a defense that won't let him throw deep, he gets reckless and makes critical mistakes. He refuses to take what is given.  DCs know it and the Jets gave a master class in it last Monday. 

 

Every DC is going to watch what the Jets did on Monday and try to clone it.

 

JA will adjust, because he'll have to.

 

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

Tell yourself what you want. Josh has to own this. When he is frustrated by a defense that won't let him throw deep, he gets reckless and makes critical mistakes. He refuses to take what is given.  DCs know it and the Jets gave a master class in it last Monday. 

 

I don't disagree,  he needs to be more patient and I'm not going to defend that mess Monday night. 

 

On the other hand,  I don't agree with this narrative that he's been an interception machine the last two seasons.  His interception rate has been a little higher than you'd like,  but not outside the norm,  around once every 41 pass attempts.  The fumbles are a bigger problem than the interceptions. 

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

The personnel he has now is more than adequate to win the Super Bowl this year.

 

Who was the last Super Bowl participant with a #2 WR at the talent level of Gabe Davis and an average OL? Not even winner, just participant.

 

The thing is I'm confident that Josh can bounce back from his bad performance last week. I'm not confident the players around him are suddenly going to become championship caliber.

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Pete said:

 

Singular point imo when Josh started regressing

 

 

 

Don't think there was one.

 

Several, IMO.

 

Without question the elbow injury. Breaking up with his girlfriend, or maybe more specifically whatever moment their relationship started going downhill. It's hard to say what the new girlfriend brings, but probably the old one brought stability and reminders of a damn productive attitude in offseasons past. That podcast Bussin' the Boys showed a different and less productive Josh. I was really depressed seeing that.

 

Not so much Dorsey being here, but Daboll leaving.

 

Mostly stuff like this is more complicated than we want to believe, not so much the effects of one thing as a change to the process.

[John from Riverside]

Well, I don’t believe that he is regressing so all of these explanations of why are silly
 

He had a bad first game to the 2023 season that’s it

 

What happened last year was last year and there are plenty of explanations of why that happened to

 

Josh is still Josh he will get it together

[Thurman#1]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

Every DC is going to watch what the Jets did on Monday and try to clone it.

 

JA will adjust, because he'll have to.

 

 

 

IMO the Jets did a good job but it wasn't a schematic thing. Not much to clone.

 

Allen did this to himself. Mental mistakes. 

 

 

[Eastport bills]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

He sucked Monday night.  He’ll play much better going forward.  But teams are doing things now on D that he needs to adjust to.

It’s just perplexing why loyal, intelligent fans have doubts that this guy will make the necessary adjustments. It’s not defenses, it’s the Jets front seven that can victimize our O-line because they have a great and physical secondary to smother receivers. You’ll see a different Josh going forward with better results.

[Hebert19]

13 hours ago, Pete said:

I believe it was late in the 2nd half against the Packers prime time.  Diggs was on tilt pregame, Pack CB got in his head.  Hard hitting game.

 

Josh is attempting to score and gets hit hard by Packers defender.  In live time, I thought Josh got hurt.  Josh jumped up and said “I love this *****!”

 

2nd half against Pack, Josh and the offense sputtered.  Ever since that hit, most everything Bills attempt on offense looks ineffective.  For 2021 and 2022 first 5 games, Josh and the offense have been were on fire.  What happened?

 

I read Jacksonville was playing 2 Top against us in that baffling 9-6 loss 

This.  I said it then and say it now.  He was concussed on that hit and was off for rest of year. 

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

There it is again, the Bills coaching staff actively covering up concussions” theory.

 

We’ve got the concussion theory and the press clippings theory.

 

Top notch…

It's not covering it up.  Have you had a concussion.  I've had a minor concussion and had little to no symptoms other than bothered by bright lights and trouble concentrating.  If you try and play QB like that then well.  You might suck and make bad decisions 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Success said:

 

Every DC is going to watch what the Jets did on Monday and try to clone it.

 

JA will adjust, because he'll have to.

 

 

They didn't really do anything special that Josh Allen hasn't faced every week.  They are just really good and Josh had a bad game. JA does need to adjust his mindset, you are right on that.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Scott7975

[BullBuchanan]

13 hours ago, Niagara Bill said:

$200,000,000+, attention, press clippings, very very very beautiful ladies, coaching change from respected father figure to buddy, and add a bell ringer or two. Hard to keep growing  when you believe you reached " IT" !

His new gf is pretty mid. Maybe the concussions are catching up.

[Matt_In_NH]

Josh Allen was third in MVP voting.   How is that possible with the regression?

[CincyBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Josh Allen was third in MVP voting.   How is that possible with the regression?

The answer is that he didn't regress.  He saw an increase in TO's.  But his performance in 2022 was still elite by any standard:

 

W/L record including playoffs:  14 - 4

Passing including playoffs:  4899 yards, 38 TD's & 17 INT's

Rushing including playoffs:  808 yards, 8 TD's & 8 lost fumbles

Total production = 5707 yards, 46 TD's & 25 TO's

 

 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

It’s just perplexing why loyal, intelligent fans have doubts that this guy will make the necessary adjustments. It’s not defenses, it’s the Jets front seven that can victimize our O-line because they have a great and physical secondary to smother receivers. You’ll see a different Josh going forward with better results.

I suspect so.  Defenses will play the two deep safety look now, and Josh will adjust

[Warriorspikes51]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

His new gf is pretty mid. Maybe the concussions are catching up.

This is another example of social media ruining society 

[John from Riverside]

10 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Tell yourself what you want. Josh has to own this. When he is frustrated by a defense that won't let him throw deep, he gets reckless and makes critical mistakes. He refuses to take what is given.  DCs know it and the Jets gave a master class in it last Monday. 

It should also be pointed out that the Jets just played the bills better than most of the teams
 

They have been frustrating Alan for sometime now and then Josh will go onto the next game and put up highlight plays

 

And yes, Josh does have to own it. He needs to understand that this is the situation with particularly the Jets and stick to the game plan which I’m sure was hitting quick passes underneath.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

17 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

I believe Josh will be fine in time, but if he needs an entire offensive overhaul he’s not the guy. That’s something you’d say about a Blake Bortles, not a supposed top 2/3 QB in the game. The personnel he has now is more than adequate to win the Super Bowl this year. Is his play caller more than adequate? Is the HC more than adequate? Is Josh himself disciplined enough to deliver a championship? That’s what we’ll find out in the coming months. 

Josh can win no doubt with what we have but he’s gonna have to be on a rampage! Asking to get your QB some more offensive line help and a real running back doesn’t mean he’s not elite . I’m tired of seeing Josh have to carry the load that he does having to be superhuman to carry this team every game . If we don’t help him soon he might help himself by asking for a trade. 

11 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

The running backs are a fine blend actually. Best we have had in years

 

lol at the bolded. Sorry Nate

That’s not saying much. 😂 btw did u see Cook trying to run east/west in that snow game in the playoffs? He’s not a every down back he’s a receiving back. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Josh can win no doubt with what we have but he’s gonna have to be on a rampage! Asking to get your QB some more offensive line help and a real running back doesn’t mean he’s not elite . I’m tired of seeing Josh have to carry the load that he does having to be superhuman to carry this team every game . If we don’t help him soon he might help himself by asking for a trade. 

McGovern, Torrence, Edwards this off-season.  Two veteran backs along with Cook this off season.  First round pick to give him receiver help.