Bills sign Latavius Murray to a one-year deal

[Sierra Foothills]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That depends upon the definition of "regular season playing time."  Two plays each game technically qualifies.  

 

Otherwise, sure, offline I'd be more than happy to consider it depending that definition.  

 

All I said was that he won't make any significant impact.  I never said he won't play if he's on the team.  

 

So define that and let's talk offline.  If it works out I'll donate my winnings to charity in your name.  Would be good either way, a win-win for you.   

 

 

 

In your first post you said "I don't see him making the final roster."

 

I said that he's going to get "regular season playing time" with the Bills. If you don't think he's going to make the final roster this is a pretty easy bet for you to make.

 

BTW I'm not interested in parsing words if that's the direction your heading towards.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

5 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Bizarre. I sort of liked who they were riding with before. Too crowded. 

I’m thinking the Brass wanted a veteran presence in the RB room. May not see him in September..

[Sierra Foothills]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

right….. like I had in other posts.  

 

Okay. It's just odd saying that he's "the odd man out" when he's not even on the roster..

 

If you said "he's not returning" that would make more sense to me.

 

Whatever. I understand.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Okay. It's just odd saying that he's "the odd man out" when he's not even on the roster..

 

If you said "he's not returning" that would make more sense to me.

 

Whatever. I understand.

Right…. just like saying he was the odd man out last year, as he was a free agent….we knew there was a chance he’d be back. Then they brought him back. And if these kids don’t pan out and can’t do the job, he’ll likely be back again if he’s available.  

[Thrivefourfive]

Murray is a helluva player. He’s carved out a niche of not having to play a lot, and getting meaningful minutes/starts once or twice a season. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The lack of use of Yeldon really burned me up.  He had game.  Came out of Bama and was a 2nd round draft pick of the Jags in 2015.  He had a little burst and had good hands.  He wasn't a star, but was an NFL RB.  And after one fumble against the Pats, he almost never saw the field again.  

And yet, when the Bills moved on from him in 2020 at age 28, no other team signed him

[PBF81]

Just now, Sierra Foothills said:

 

In your first post you said "I don't see him making the final roster."

 

I said that he's going to get "regular season playing time" with the Bills. If you don't think he's going to make the final roster this is a pretty easy bet for you to make.

 

BTW I'm not interested in parsing words if that's the direction your heading towards.

 

I don't see him making the final roster.  I'm considering a variety of factors that I haven't provided the background for.  

 

As I also said, he doesn't add anything that we don't already have.  He doesn't, and he's not going to be improving.  He's 33.  Anyone that's watched the NFL for any length of time and paid attention knows that 33-year old (or older RBs) typically don't do much.  You know that.  I'm sure that there are exceptions that you can find, but generally that's the case, even for the best RBs.  

 

Here are last season's leaders, and do it for any season.  Sort on age and look at the RB production.  Murray was by a country mile the only one older than 31 that did anything, and the 31-year old was Cordorelle Patterson, a converted WR to RB.  If he makes any kind of a difference this season at 33, it'll be an exception and against the odds.  It seems to me that we could do something greater with that roster spot.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/rushing.htm#rushing_and_receiving::rush_yds 

 

He obviously wouldn't be used with any frequency as a receiver OOTB, so that's not really a role for him given that we barely used two RBs that specialize in that for that purpose last season.  Remember, Beane brought Hines on for that expressed purpose, and he's an outstanding receiver OOTB.  He had 5 catches after we got him.  We were all scratching our noggins over that.  Cook, another RB with great hands, averaged just over 1/game.  Likewise, that was one of the things touted about him when we drafted him.  So that's not why they signed him.  

 

As to rushing, we drafted Cook to be our speed back, Harris is now there to be our 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust guy and at the forefront of his prime.  So that's not Murray's role either.  So whatever he does it'll be either for injury or depth.  That doesn't spell significant playing time.  So that's why I asked what your definition of "regular season playing time" was.  If all he's going to do is carry the ball on average once a game and be in on a number of snaps otherwise, sure, I suppose that's "regular season playing time," but that would then also fully corroborate my position that this is a nothing signing, wouldn't it?  

 

I could be way off, maybe he'll end up being our starter, but knowing what we know about RBs out of their prime, I'd guess that's not going to be the case.  

 

As to parsing, you're the one that made the offer based upon "regular season playing time," which could mean anything, not on whether or not he makes the roster, which I have zero control over.  Duke Johnson "got regular season playing time" last season.  Just sayin'.  Given our personnel management it wouldn't surprise me if he did, I'm simply not expecting it.  There are a bunch of players now that we've signed or possibly even drafted that won't be on the 53.  That's normal.  

 

Let's make a friendly then.  See what happens.  I don't care if I lose the wager, all the better if it improves the team.  I just don't see him doing much if he does make the roster.  And if he was really that good some team would have picked him up by now.  

 

Go Bills!!  

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Personally, I thought he looked much bigger, stronger and faster than Motor. He also does not fumble. 

 

Hmm.  I'm not seeing a significant difference other than size.  Maybe my estimation of Motor is higher than yours rather than my evaluation of Murray being lower.  But I see you've got some folks agreeing with you so I'll keep an open mind and relook at Murray more closely.

 

I would agree that Harris is "bigger, stronger and faster."  At least he seemed to be all those things in his games against the Bills.  

[EasternOHBillsFan]

This explains last season and why Hines wasn't used that much as a HB. They see Hines as a special teams star and now have Cook, Harris and Murray slotted in the HB positions. It's brilliant because it puts less mileage on our HBs and gives us flexibility.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

A lot of assumptions here. It's really yet to be be seen how effective the oline will be. Will Brown improve? Torrance is a rookie. Kincaid offers little in the blocking department. 

 

Make no mistake about it the Bills are no power running team nor do they want to be. They will always live and die with Allen's arm and legs. 

 

Lastly, will Dorsey commit to the run? Will Harris still healthy? Will they use Hines as RB? How will Cook progress or will he regress? 

 

The Bills are not a power-running team, as you say.  But it's great to have powerful backs on a passing team going up against nickel and dime defenses.  

 

I'm not sure how good this OL will be, but I do think it's realistic to expect it to be better than v.2022.  

 

7 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Hmm.  I'm not seeing a significant difference other than size.  Maybe my estimation of Motor is higher than yours rather than my evaluation of Murray being lower.  But I see you've got some folks agreeing with you so I'll keep an open mind and relook at Murray more closely.

 

I would agree that Harris is "bigger, stronger and faster."  At least he seemed to be all those things in his games against the Bills.  

 

Beane said that Hines didn't have time to learn the offense last year.  He seemed to be suggesting that we'll see more of him in the backfield this year.  With Hines' catching-out-of-the-backfield skills, we ought to.  

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[Sierra Foothills]

26 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I don't see him making the final roster.  I'm considering a variety of factors that I haven't provided the background for.  

 

As I also said, he doesn't add anything that we don't already have.  He doesn't, and he's not going to be improving.  He's 33.  Anyone that's watched the NFL for any length of time and paid attention knows that 33-year old (or older RBs) typically don't do much.  You know that.  I'm sure that there are exceptions that you can find, but generally that's the case, even for the best RBs.  

 

Here are last season's leaders, and do it for any season.  Sort on age and look at the RB production.  Murray was by a country mile the only one older than 31 that did anything, and the 31-year old was Cordorelle Patterson, a converted WR to RB.  If he makes any kind of a difference this season at 33, it'll be an exception and against the odds.  It seems to me that we could do something greater with that roster spot.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/rushing.htm#rushing_and_receiving::rush_yds 

 

He obviously wouldn't be used with any frequency as a receiver OOTB, so that's not really a role for him given that we barely used two RBs that specialize in that for that purpose last season.  Remember, Beane brought Hines on for that expressed purpose, and he's an outstanding receiver OOTB.  He had 5 catches after we got him.  We were all scratching our noggins over that.  Cook, another RB with great hands, averaged just over 1/game.  Likewise, that was one of the things touted about him when we drafted him.  So that's not why they signed him.  

 

As to rushing, we drafted Cook to be our speed back, Harris is now there to be our 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust guy and at the forefront of his prime.  So that's not Murray's role either.  So whatever he does it'll be either for injury or depth.  That doesn't spell significant playing time.  So that's why I asked what your definition of "regular season playing time" was.  If all he's going to do is carry the ball on average once a game and be in on a number of snaps otherwise, sure, I suppose that's "regular season playing time," but that would then also fully corroborate my position that this is a nothing signing, wouldn't it?  

 

I could be way off, maybe he'll end up being our starter, but knowing what we know about RBs out of their prime, I'd guess that's not going to be the case.  

 

As to parsing, you're the one that made the offer based upon "regular season playing time," which could mean anything, not on whether or not he makes the roster, which I have zero control over.  Duke Johnson "got regular season playing time" last season.  Just sayin'.  Given our personnel management it wouldn't surprise me if he did, I'm simply not expecting it.  There are a bunch of players now that we've signed or possibly even drafted that won't be on the 53.  That's normal.  

 

Let's make a friendly then.  See what happens.  I don't care if I lose the wager, all the better if it improves the team.  I just don't see him doing much if he does make the roster.  And if he was really that good some team would have picked him up by now.  

 

Go Bills!!  

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

I'll say barring injury he makes the opening day roster.

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

The Bills are not a power-running team, as you say.  But it's great to have powerful backs on a passing team going up against nickel and dime defenses.  

 

I'm not sure how good this OL will be, but I do think it's realistic to expect it to be better than v.2022.  

 

 

 

You’re right that power running isn’t their primary option, but it’s clear that the additions of Harris, Torrence and now Murray suggest they’re headed in the power running direction when they do choose to run. Which, as you suggest, might be a really smart counter punch against defenses that’ll be expecting pass first. 

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, Dillenger4 said:

I think it's clear that the Front Office is sick of seeing our offense not being able to gain a 3rd &1 or 3rd &2 on the ground, easily. We tried sooo many times last year with twinkle toes Singletary. He couldn't get an inch.

We rely on going for it on 4th down, using Allen or passing and holding our breath. This is NOT sustainable.

We now have two bigger pounding backs in Harris and Murray.

Goaline situations. 3rd and short situations are now much easier and the line should be better for it all too.

Late in teh season is when you run. Everyone did it to us. Now we can control drives.

 

With all due respect, I disagree with this.  In 2020, 2021, and early 2022, they were terrible in 3rd and 4th and less-than-2 yards.  It was mostly Moss running into the line and going nowhere.  Last year, once Moss was out of the mix, Singletary actually did quite well in those situations.  I don't have statistics to cite, but I watched every snap of every game and was pleasantly surprised to see what had been a major issue become a non-issue.  This isn't to say that Singletary is a power back or a short-yardage ace, but once he took over that role, he was pretty solid in getting those first downs on 3rd and 4th and short.  I'm curious to know if I'm the only one on this board who noticed this improvement.

 

I should also add that, in the same vein, when the Bills ran the ball last season and committed to it/stuck with it, they were quite effective.  Singletary ran well and later in the season, Cook found his stride and ran well too (he was bad in the beginning of the season).  That said, it was pretty rare that they actually did commit to it and/or stuck to it.

 

I do agree that with Harris, Murray, the new guards, and Brown at full health, they should be even better at 3rd and 4th and short in the upcoming season.  Likewise, if they commit to the run game, I think it will be even better than last season.  And to clarify, I'm referring to the RUNNING BACK run game and not the Josh Allen run game.  Allen running the ball is quite effective, but I don't want to steer the conversation into the whole exposure to injury thing - that's another topic for another thread (and there are already many of those).

Edited May 1, 2023 by msw2112

[1st&ten]

Bills are going to surprise the league & run the wishbone.

[machine gun kelly]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Bizarre. I sort of liked who they were riding with before. Too crowded. 

I think Sal is right.  It may be a game specific signing against teams where we need tough yards at 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, and goal line.  With not playing much, he’ll be completely rested and he’s not frank gore.  He just turned 33.

[khlax3]

I can’t really understand why so many here are questioning this and don’t think he will make the roster. The bills have always carried 4 rbs and rb on the roster I don’t see why this year would be any different. I know Jones only played special teams but now you have a special team guy in Hines who can also play on offense. 
 

I think it’s much more likely we carry Murray on the roster than a 7th wr or even Quentin Morris as a 3rd TE

[ALLEN1QB]

Wooohooo Hines has a buddy on the bench now.

[Warriorspikes51]

13 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

Bills are going to surprise the league & run the wishbone.

we could do this in the redzone seriously at the very Murray and Harris are both together as very strong goal line options 

[BillsFanForever19]

Murray replaces Duke Johnson. His ceiling is that Matt Breida, TJ Yeldon role. 4th RB on the 53 who is inactive on Game Day unless there's an injury to Cook, Harris, or Hines.

 

His floor is he's on the Practice Squad. Which was what he was doing last season. 

 

But make no mistake about it, he's inactive unless there's an injury. McDermott doesn't dress 4 RB's. And he won't dress over Cook, Harris, or Hines.

Edited May 1, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[ProcessTruster]

Beane said he did it so that he did not need to draft a RB on Day 3.   camp body

[stuvian]

solid short yardage RB

[Warriorspikes51]

7 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Beane said he did it so that he did not need to draft a RB on Day 3.   camp body

That’s not exactly what he said…and “camp body” was not mentioned. Beane raved about Murray and specifically mentioned using him in short yardage situations

Edited May 1, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Manther]

5 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

In 9 games last year Hines had 6 rush attempts.  That's not on him.  

 

Like with a few others on the roster and their lack of usage, it's has nothing to do with their talent and everything to do with mismanagement.

 

 

I agree they misused him.  But, I think that was McD and Dorsey.  I don't think they like/trusted what Beane got them.  Since they kept him and could have cut him for no money I think we will see them use him more on Offense this year.  I hope so for sure!

[RG Murdock]

I don't see the Chiefs, Ravens, jets or Dolphins doing dumpster dives for very marginal talent. The Bills are acting more like a bottom feeder team than a SB contender. These moves remind me of Bills circa 1998 thru 2016. The linebacker situation is baffling. It's a major hole, and Beane is treating it like it's a position like long snapper or punter. Beane's always crying about cap space.. I don't hear the above mentioned teams who also have very expensive players complaining about available $$$. They are making big moves.       

[freddyjj]

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

2 QB

4 RB
1 FB
3 TE

7 WR

10 OL

5 DT

5 DE (Von PUP)
5 LB

6 CB

4 S

1 K

1 P

1 LS

55 man roster now?   53 is opening day #

[billsfan_34]

Always bring in plenty of backs. One or 2 will go down during camp/pre season. 

[Pete]

I think many here are underestimating Latavious.  Bills O has gotten much tougher this offseason. 
 

[BillsNutHawaii]

7 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Cook as trade bait?....... kidding, kidding......or am I?

Trade him for a 3rd. Another perfect example of the Bills “playing chess while the rest of the league is playing checkers.” For those of you who really believe that.

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

That’s not exactly what he said…and “camp body” was not mentioned. Beane raved about Murray and specifically mentioned using him in short yardage situations

Beane is a straight shooter. This regime prides itself on being honest with players and trying to do right by them. Putting aside coaching decisions and what happens on the field, the way McDermott and Beane with the Pegulas' support have transformed the way the franchise is perceived by acting well towards people is inspiring. I do not believe Murray signs if the offer was presented as in any way suggesting a camp body. Beane is not raving about a player's abilities if he sees them as a marginal player. Murray is a big body. Compare Damien Harris 5'11 213 and Murray 6'3 230. I think he's going to be on the roster.

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, RG Murdock said:

I don't see the Chiefs, Ravens, jets or Dolphins doing dumpster dives for very marginal talent. The Bills are acting more like a bottom feeder team than a SB contender. These moves remind me of Bills circa 1998 thru 2016. The linebacker situation is baffling. It's a major hole, and Beane is treating it like it's a position like long snapper or punter. Beane's always crying about cap space.. I don't hear the above mentioned teams who also have very expensive players complaining about available $$$. They are making big moves.       

Patience grasshopper.

 

Beane improved interior offensive line, WR, TE, RB- you can only fix so much with the draft.

 

Beane himself said DL was next, and he is in discussions with a few DL.

Rapp was a great signing.  He’s a sure tackler.

 

Beane is not done adding quality players. 

there will be massive cuts around the league the next couple months.  Bills cuts will be tough already.  My money is Beane makes a trade or two 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

Always super underrated 

 

.6% career Carries to fumble ratio …. Big 

 

never crazily used … no nonsense game 

 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

18 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Trade him for a 3rd. Another perfect example of the Bills “playing chess while the rest of the league is playing checkers.” For those of you who really believe that.

Already too late for that. The film is already out that he's not a difference maker as a receiver out of the backfield, which was supposed to be his best quality. Add to that, the guy can get tackled by one arm 90% of the time. Don't worry, someone will bring up his impressive yards per carry average, but that's a classic case of change of pace back false hope. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by TheBeaneBandit

[Pabstblueribbon]

Murray only has 9 fumbles over the course of his career.Motor already has 10 during his rookie contract. 

 

 

 

He's a viable stand-in to spell Cook if Harris gets injured. Pretty sure that's going to be the extent of his roll if called upon. 

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Pabstblueribbon
Williams on the brain

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yes, I'm familiar with his role on other teams, but as stated, he's 33.  That's old for a RB contrary to what opinions may be otherwise.  

 

I'm not sure that I see us carrying 5 RBs, and again, other than for injury insurance, I'm not seeing what he adds given our offense, which already underutilizes RBs.  I still say that there's a good chance he's not even on the 53 come opening day.  

 

There's an awful lot of defensive posturing on this signing as if it has any significance in achieving wins.  The size of the contract says something.  

 

That is all.  

 

And BTW. 4.2 ypc is incredibly average.  FWIW  

 

LOL to the bolded.  All I did was say he is a viable 3rd string option if Harris goes down.  He is not getting the lion's share of reps and

he is a good short yardage and blocking RB.  If anyone is going overboard in "posturing", it's you with your hatred of the pick.

You doubled down with the foolishness of your statement with your comment on his contract.  The reason Beane signed the guy is because

he could fill a role and is cheap.

 

Enjoy your criticism of the signing!

 

[Eastport bills]

8 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Well, from what I've read, Harris will be injured by halftime of the first game. 

Exactly, look at his games played the last few years. This is a good signing because Murray is a big back that plays through minor injury. He is also a short yardage dog.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, RG Murdock said:

I don't see the Chiefs, Ravens, jets or Dolphins doing dumpster dives for very marginal talent. The Bills are acting more like a bottom feeder team than a SB contender. These moves remind me of Bills circa 1998 thru 2016. The linebacker situation is baffling. It's a major hole, and Beane is treating it like it's a position like long snapper or punter. Beane's always crying about cap space.. I don't hear the above mentioned teams who also have very expensive players complaining about available $$$. They are making big moves.       

Huh?  The chiefs won their first SB with a collection of dumpster dive RB’s and a 7th round pick.  He’s one of the better RB4’s in the league.  You’re being ridiculous.  

Edited May 1, 2023 by NewEra

[1st&ten]

1 hour ago, RG Murdock said:

I don't see the Chiefs, Ravens, jets or Dolphins doing dumpster dives for very marginal talent. The Bills are acting more like a bottom feeder team than a SB contender. These moves remind me of Bills circa 1998 thru 2016. The linebacker situation is baffling. It's a major hole, and Beane is treating it like it's a position like long snapper or punter. Beane's always crying about cap space.. I don't hear the above mentioned teams who also have very expensive players complaining about available $$$. They are making big moves.       

I think the Bills have added some pretty good players this off season. The other teams you mention also sign players that are not "big moves"  Not every signing can be a pro bowl player---it's a team game.

[Dillenger4]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

With all due respect, I disagree with this.  In 2020, 2021, and early 2022, they were terrible in 3rd and 4th and less-than-2 yards.  It was mostly Moss running into the line and going nowhere.  Last year, once Moss was out of the mix, Singletary actually did quite well in those situations.  I don't have statistics to cite, but I watched every snap of every game and was pleasantly surprised to see what had been a major issue become a non-issue.  This isn't to say that Singletary is a power back or a short-yardage ace, but once he took over that role, he was pretty solid in getting those first downs on 3rd and 4th and short.  I'm curious to know if I'm the only one on this board who noticed this improvement.

 

I should also add that, in the same vein, when the Bills ran the ball last season and committed to it/stuck with it, they were quite effective.  Singletary ran well and later in the season, Cook found his stride and ran well too (he was bad in the beginning of the season).  That said, it was pretty rare that they actually did commit to it and/or stuck to it.

 

I do agree that with Harris, Murray, the new guards, and Brown at full health, they should be even better at 3rd and 4th and short in the upcoming season.  Likewise, if they commit to the run game, I think it will be even better than last season.  And to clarify, I'm referring to the RUNNING BACK run game and not the Josh Allen run game.  Allen running the ball is quite effective, but I don't want to steer the conversation into the whole exposure to injury thing - that's another topic for another thread (and there are already many of those).

In 2022/23 (Last season) the Bills ranked 24th at 35.8% on third down conversions. I don't have a split on how many of those attempts were by RB and not a pass or Allen run - but either way it's not a great stat.

I agree with you in that our running game (RB's) did improve as the season progressed but Singletary was a dud when it counted. He can get you your 5-6 yard runs, and he did. But if it mattered or we needed that one yard to move the chains - he was a dud. I watched every game too. Clearly, Beane and McD did too and bye bye singleton.

Anyway, I am happy with Murray and Harris. I know they will pound it when it counts! Go Bills!

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yeah I felt the same- but the nfl agreed with McD- that was the end of Yeldon nfl career

The NFL is a tough league to play a lot of years.  Some guys can do it even if they are not stars like AJ Klein.  And other guys like Yeldon are a blip on the radar.  Another guy like Yeldon who had a little better career was Eddie Lacey.  That guy could run.  But ate himself out of the league.  How about Scott Chandler?  He had some good years for us.  And then just gone.  Never to be heard from again.  Tough way to make a living if you are not a star.  

[vincec]

9 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I can’t seem them having Hines, Harris, Cook and Murray all active game day 

Two carries for each of them