Per Shefty - Bills “expected to lose” Poyer and Edmunds

[BananaB]

Defense needs a change. Like both players but the change gotta start somewhere and these two have contracts that expired. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Yes - but at that price point i don't think there's value.  There's a lower tier of player that can be productive in our defense, and there are some cut players like Kendricks or Wagner who would bring some solid stability there for a year or two (and maximize any type of compensatory pick formula). 

Agreed. I still think we tried to force him to being a MLB when he would have been an all pro at OLB. He’s still so young and freaky talented that it’s going to suck to see if he puts it all together on another team.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Diggs is going to be 30 next year... i think his concern is the window is closing for him personally.  

 

Yup.. and it's valid.

 

He has a few years left at an elite level, and he's witnessed 3 years of Championship aspirations evaporate in front of him.  

[GETTOTHE50]

ill miss poyer, but i dont mind him leaving. i especially dont mind edmunds leaving.

 

give me new players to be mad at

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Diggs is going to be 30 next year... i think his concern is the window is closing for him personally.  

Diggs is showing great maturity and leadership. I don’t mean during game outbursts, those happen. But his current act is hard to understand. The Bills aren’t trading him. He took the restructure and gladly signed. So what’s the deal? He knows the Bills would get crushed on the cap because he got the restructure. Grow up.. they aren’t sending him to play with his brother in Dallas. 

[corta765]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

Yup.. and it's valid.

 

He has a few years left at an elite level, and he's witnessed 3 years of Championship aspirations evaporate in front of him.  

 

I think he himself would be thrilled if the Bills drafted a guy 1st round as it could help share the load a bit and keep the tread on his tires a bit lighter.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed. I still think we tried to force him to being a MLB when he would have been an all pro at OLB. He’s still so young and freaky talented that it’s going to suck to see if he puts it all together on another team.

 

He's a fine player - i just know i don't want 30M AAV tied up in off ball linebackers.  Either sign an over the hill vet - and hope you can milk the last bits of football out of him.  Or Sign someone who you think might be undervalued like you did with poyer and hyde.  

[MrEpsYtown]

7 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

I cant see a scenario where you pay him Smith/Leonard/Warnter money - and its a good value.  All 3 when healthy are better players.  

 

Even when you look at those contracts....Smith is good but probably isn't worth the contract that he just got. His career has been very up and down.

 

Leonard has been hurt, had multiple surgeries on his back, lost feeling in his lower half, etc. Plus when he was out, Bobby Owereke was just as good, that one is looking like a miss imo.

 

Warner is the only one who probably deserves the contract he got and even so there are a bunch of voidable years and such in there. If they let Warner walk and re-sign Al-Shaiir they probably get close to equal production.

 

The CJ Mosely contract even looks like a dud.

 

Tremaine would be a very poor investment, as pretty much any off-ball linebacker is when you start approaching 20 million AAV. 

[SWATeam]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Tremaine would be a very poor investment, as pretty much any off-ball linebacker is when you start approaching 20 million AAV. 

Then the point becomes that it's a poor 1st round pick

[MrEpsYtown]

3 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Then the point becomes that it's a poor 1st round pick

 

I disagree to an extent. They got cheap production for essentially 4 years and a fifth-year option. I think it was a worthy gamble, but Fred Warner went in the third round. In hindsight, I think you let the draft come to you. I think they kind of forced this pick. I think taking an inside off-ball linebacker is ok in the back half, especially if you are getting the best one. 

 

I think it's fair to pay him in that 12 million-a-year range. 19-20 is absurd. 

 

 

The first round is for QBs, WRs, Edge sack getting players, and left tackles and corners imo. 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed. I still think we tried to force him to being a MLB when he would have been an all pro at OLB. He’s still so young and freaky talented that it’s going to suck to see if he puts it all together on another team.

 

This is something I would wonder about at times. As I'm sure you are aware, this was talked about a few different times on here. I recall there were some that felt it wasn't the case.

 

Who knows, but I did wonder sometimes if he could have been better at OLB 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I disagree to an extent. They got cheap production for essentially 4 years and a fifth-year option. I think it was a worthy gamble, but Fred Warner went in the third round. In hindsight, I think you let the draft come to you. I think they kind of forced this pick. I think taking an inside off-ball linebacker is ok in the back half, especially if you are getting the best one. 

 

 

It's not so cheap when you consider that not only was he a mid-first round pick, but that they actually traded up as well.

[jlgarsh]

20 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

The fallout of getting a hall of fame DE which is what we needed. Edmunds had plenty of time to show he’s a consistent game changer. He hasn’t been. KC won with a very average D. Help JA feed the O.. score more points !

I mean, I think the Knox extension is what made it so Edmunds is gone. They gave him $15 mil/year and Dorsey doesn't even feature him consistently. 

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I feel like Poyer leaving is mostly due to his wife.

 

He's at the tail end of his career.  Chasing the money is what he should be doing.  

[BillsFanSD]

TBF, letting Poyer walk is the right business decision.  I love the guy and I'll wish him well as long as he lands outside our division.  It just doesn't make sense for us to pay him what he's going to be able to get from other teams.  

 

I do hate losing Edmunds and it would not surprise me in the least if we end up regretting his departure.  People are all bent out of shape over Isaiah Hodgins.  This board will melt down if Edmunds becomes an all-pro with some other team.  Hopefully we put those assets to very, very good use. 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

It's not so cheap when you consider that not only was he a mid-first round pick, but that they actually traded up as well.

Agree....didn't get what the FO envisioned that they thought they were going to get from him (many fans also). I think this past season was pretty much his best season out of his time as a Bill. If I'm not mistaken his rookie season was pretty decent. 

 

Either way was a bit disappointing

[Kiva]

3 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I feel like Poyer leaving is mostly due to his wife.

Yeah. There are more important things than being stuck in Buffalo, dealing with the terrible weather and just lack of overall activities, crime.  Poyer is obviously controlled, on a short leash with his wife. He needs to keep her happy. Let the dominant leader lead the family. 

[RunTheBall]

The writing was on the wall with Poyer last off season.

 

I’ve been saying for years McBeane were going to sign Edmunds to a large extension and value him more than we do, so I’ll believe he’s gone when he signs somewhere else.

 

I would have thought Beane would sign him during the season, and maybe he tried, but what he’s doing now is waiting to see what Edmunds can get on the open market and then see if we can come close. Beane has a number in mind, we are going to find out if other teams see him as worth more than we fans do.

 

 

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

Agree....didn't get what the FO envisioned that they thought they were going to get from him (many fans also). I think this past season was pretty much his best season out of his time as a Bill. If I'm not mistaken his rookie season was pretty decent. 

 

Either way was a bit disappointing

The hope was to get a Kuechly/Urlacher/Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis for the middle of the D.  Tremaine never ascended past "good."

[Beast]

4 hours ago, Bigvinny said:

Nobody fears the Bills defense. They need a nasty dude in the middle. 

This isn’t the 70’s. Better in pass coverage beats a thumper in the run game.

[ColoradoBills]

22 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I disagree to an extent. They got cheap production for essentially 4 years and a fifth-year option. I think it was a worthy gamble, but Fred Warner went in the third round. In hindsight, I think you let the draft come to you. I think they kind of forced this pick. I think taking an inside off-ball linebacker is ok in the back half, especially if you are getting the best one. 

 

I think it's fair to pay him in that 12 million-a-year range. 19-20 is absurd. 

 

 

The first round is for QBs, WRs, Edge sack getting players, and left tackles and corners imo. 

 

That's interesting.  Thanks.  

 

So, if a team tried to get a top 10 player at each position group, they would have a cap hit of $191.5M for 10 players.

Cap this year is $224.8M.  

LOL, don't need to be a math wizard to know that wouldn't work!

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

This isn’t the 70’s. Better in pass coverage beats a thumper in the run game.

And dudes who can produce turnovers 

[Nitro]

Losing both in the short term will hurt.  The Edmunds haters will be happy but his loss will really impact the pass defense.  Reload with rookies and possibly a FA player or two will transform this defense.  No longer thinking Super Bowl this season.  Daunting schedule will be trial by fire for the new guys.  Long term this team will be set. 

[Victory Formation]

I’d rather Buffalo put that money on a #1 WR opposite of Diggs. And to the folks saying that we shouldn’t have signed Von instead of Tremaine, you’re wrong. Von pushes the needle forward more than Tremaine ever could.

[Nitro]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know he had his issues but I think Edmunds is going to be a pretty big loss. I know we were losing Poyer last off-season. 

Having him play out of position did him ho favors.   Fascinating is how people outside of Buffalo view him.  I was at the Chicago game and the fans next to us said they were hoping to get him in the off season.  Where ever he goes, I wish him the best.  I think he is ready to become a dominant player.

[balln]

3 hours ago, sven233 said:

When you have a defensive minded coach that has the reputation that McDermott has, it should be expected that you get a little extra boost with scheme and coaching. Obviously talent and players are important, but when you specialize on that side of the ball, you should not need top payed players at every position to make your defense work. To this point, I think more has been invested into players, both money and picks, on the defensive side of the ball than should have been necessary to put a respectable defense on the field. 

 

I think the organization has the right idea on offense. It's a big play, passing league and that's what they've been trying to do scheme wise which is great, but with so much invested on the defensive side of the ball, they just haven't had the horses on offense to execute the way they need to. So it's time to shift some focus to the offense and give the scheme they want to run a shot to do so. That starts up front on the line and making sure Allen doesn't have a dude in his face a split second after the snap. Hard to push the ball down the field when you're constantly just trying to avoid garbage in the backfield and trying to read a defense at the same time. So get some real lineman in here and give Allen a chance to read what's actually going on.

 

Then, of course, get him more receiving help. We need speed and guys that can actually hold onto the ball. Right now Diggs is the only player besides Allen that defenses have to fear. If you can't add at least another one or two guys on offense that defenses actually respect, then it will remain difficult to move the ball consistently. Yes, we had a good scoring offense last season statistically. But a lot of that was because we have a freakshow at QB that can cover up for so many other mistakes. It's time to make Allen's job easier. That can be done by letting some of the higher priced defensive players walk and investing more resources into the offense while hoping your defensive guru coach can make up for some of the lack of superstars on defense and put a solid defense on the field regardless. 

Great Fn post man. 100

 

When our offense was going backwards or huge negative plays - we’re bc saffold and Spencer brown were getting beat IMMEDIATELY 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

48 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Even when you look at those contracts....Smith is good but probably isn't worth the contract that he just got. His career has been very up and down.

 

Leonard has been hurt, had multiple surgeries on his back, lost feeling in his lower half, etc. Plus when he was out, Bobby Owereke was just as good, that one is looking like a miss imo.

 

Warner is the only one who probably deserves the contract he got and even so there are a bunch of voidable years and such in there. If they let Warner walk and re-sign Al-Shaiir they probably get close to equal production.

 

The CJ Mosely contract even looks like a dud.

 

Tremaine would be a very poor investment, as pretty much any off-ball linebacker is when you start approaching 20 million AAV. 

 

Smith - they traded for... felt like an overpay but he was good for them last year.

 

Leonard was 1st team all-pro 3/4 years so... usually the type of guy you want to pay and keep.

 

Mosley's deal is bad because he played 2 games through the first 2 years of the deal.  Before that he was one of the best ILBs in football, and the last 2 years he has been a good player.  

 

Tremaine has made less of an impact in 5 seasons, than any of these guys did.  I just don't see how it ends up well for the team signing him at that number. 

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Nitro said:

Having him play out of position did him ho favors.   Fascinating is how people outside of Buffalo view him.  I was at the Chicago game and the fans next to us said they were hoping to get him in the off season.  Where ever he goes, I wish him the best.  I think he is ready to become a dominant player.

Edmunds isn’t a flashy player. So how would they know if he’s good or not unless they watched every bills game?

 

I think the media portrays Edmunds as a “good” player and he’s a relatively “big name”. 

 

Us bills fans have watched him for 5 years and we still can’t come to a consensus whether he’s good or not haha 

[Dr.Sack]

Wingspan often makes the extraordinary look ordinary. There is no MLB in the league with the range of Edmunds. His pass disruption radius is immense. No doubt Jack Campbell would be a step backwards into the 1990s. The Bills probably will need to find the tallest most athletic LB they can find.

[John from Riverside]

Not gonna sweat this as long as we find replacements

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Losing both in the short term will hurt.  The Edmunds haters will be happy but his loss will really impact the pass defense.  Reload with rookies and possibly a FA player or two will transform this defense.  No longer thinking Super Bowl this season.  Daunting schedule will be trial by fire for the new guys.  Long term this team will be set. 

 

I never rule it out - the best team from the offseason rarely wins the super bowl.  Hell, the best team during the season doesn't even win it most of the time. 

 

Punch a ticket - thats the goal.  If the jets get rodgers, and the dolphins get brady blah blah blah.  I don't care - win the 9 or 10 games and get to the playoffs.  Then anything can happen.  Focus on getting healthy, and playing your best ball in january.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[OZBILLS]

Meh no loss.

 

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

31 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

The hope was to get a Kuechly/Urlacher/Ray Lewis/Patrick Willis for the middle of the D.  Tremaine never ascended past "good."

So get Kuechly and you have a Kuechly

[Bills!Win!]

We need 2 guards and deandre hopkins to be able to beat the chiefs and bengals. Enough with the defense, time to build the offense. We tried for 3 years and it didn’t work 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Bills!Win!

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed. I still think we tried to force him to being a MLB when he would have been an all pro at OLB. He’s still so young and freaky talented that it’s going to suck to see if he puts it all together on another team.

It'll be interesting to see if this occurs and I do wonder if Edmunds himself wants out because he's not that comfortable in the MLB position and wants to move outside.

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

No doubt Jack Campbell would be a step backwards into the 1990s.

 

I don't agree with that at all. Campbell doesn't have the sideline to sideline range that Edmunds does but he isn't just a downhill thumper. He is at least competent moving laterally and he can more than hold his own in zone coverage. It's just that his instincts make him special instead of his athleticism.

[T master]

Well given the cap i'm thinking this was probably a fore gone conclusion last preseason when they couldn't come to a extention .

 

Then Poyer getting the highest paid agent there is in Rosenhouse kind of sent out a sign of his intentions as far as getting the biggest contract he could he played his best for us & that's alls we can ask .

 

If it's their time to move on thank you Po & Tremaine for all you gave the team . Go Bills !! 

[HurlyBurly51]

Guess the salary cap is real.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, HurlyBurly51 said:

Guess the salary cap is real.

 

It's not.  When I max out my credit card, I just get a new one.  That's what the Bills should do.  

[HurlyBurly51]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's not.  When I max out my credit card, I just get a new one.  That's what the Bills should do.