Apparently Vegas doesn't agree the Bills are done...

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

They haven't been horrible. They have been mediocre. He needs to hit on a few players who are exceptional while picking later in the draft.

His day two picks are often disappointments. 

 

Wasn't too long ago Howie Roseman was being lambasted in Philly and they were trying to run him out of town for the same reason...Brandon Graham was coming off Achilles surgery and was a bust up to that point, Jalen Hurts was meh, his drafts hadn't been very good, blah blah blah...it can all change very quickly.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Big Turk

[US Egg]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Because Vegas isn't a bunch of panicking babies. 

Like me, sweating bets every night on FanDuel.

…..I do panic and sweat nightly, but don’t mine the money I flush away.

 

Weird, since I never had any and really still don’t.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

There is no way I'm not falling for THAT S*** AGAIN

 

Poor Curly…he could never get that last word in (or poke) 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Because Vegas isn't a bunch of panicking babies. 

I want to capture this in a smell.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

 

 

Someone from the "done" crowd, please provide a link to anyone, anywhere on this website, suggesting the Bills are "done."

 

Thanks.

 

 

will you sleep better given that information?

 

laymen terms: does it really matter?

 

 

on another note I read here that their enthusiasm was dead and buried after 13 secs.

 

close enough definition of done.

[gobills404]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

As long as we have a healthy Allen ... 

[BullBuchanan]

Yea, but wait till they factor in the Chad Hall departure.

[K-9]

3 hours ago, Gregg said:

If they can improve the LOS on both sides of the ball and get a legit #2 WR then absolutely. But given our cap situation I don't know how active the Bills will be in FA. Beane really needs to hit a HR this draft. His draft record with the exception of Allen hasn't been all that great.

The NFL salary cap is an illusion. 

[Haslett_Stomp]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

It's not what they think they will happen, it's where the money goes. We'll always be in the conversation with Allen, but those of us that watch every play of every Bills game knows "not with this team". It's like when your friends that didn't watch Bills games tried to tell you Tyrod was good because they looked at stats and saw a highlight on Sportscenter. 

 

There is a Raiders fan at the local establishment where I watch the games that told me I was nuts, the Bills were the best team in the league every time I said I had doubts about them this year.  When I walked into the place after the Bengals game he asked me what happened...

[Augie]

30 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I want to capture this in a smell.

 

And here I was trying to come up with an environmentally friendly way to get rid of the stench! 

 

No complaints, the better you do, the better I do! 

[78thealltimegreat]

3 hours ago, eball said:

2024 Super Bowl odds are out.  The Bills are no worse than 3rd at the large books.

 

Discuss...

 

Vegas knows Von and Micah are do back…and Beane can’t possibly totally ignore the offense again this off season 

[billieve420]

Bills are no means a terrible team so makes sense they would still be in the top 5 in Super Bowl odds. However, the question remains can this coaching staff get them there. The Super Bowl window is now. We went all in on Miller and it did not pay off. We were a year late and imagine things would have been different if he was playing on the Bills instead of the Rams during their Super Bowl run.

[LABILLBACKER]

9 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Vegas knows Von and Micah are do back…and Beane can’t possibly totally ignore the offense again this off season 

....along with that Vegas recently received an authentication code guaranteeing Gabe never drops a pass again. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, eball said:

2024 Super Bowl odds are out.  The Bills are no worse than 3rd at the large books.

 

Discuss...

 

weren’t they first for 2023 at one point? We see how that panned out 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Because Vegas isn't a bunch of panicking babies. 

 

3 hours ago, transient said:

Can’t be. They’re done. …I know this because I read it on TBD In every other post. 🤷‍♂️

 

There is a MASSIVE difference of saying we are done and being concerned we will be able to make enough moves to get ahead of KC and Bengals next year.  

 

All these snarky comments about "how is this possible, I read we are done on here" type things in this thread are very short sighted.  Just because someone looks at the road ahead and sees the potential concerns does NOT mean everyone thinks the team is done.  If someone can't sit back and take an honest accounting of where we are at, that is on them.  

 

Reality:  

• We have 3 key starters up for Free Agency in Edmunds, Poyer, and Devin.  We do not know who will be back, if any, and the replacements for those that leave are not currently on this roster.  
• Our 2 best players on the defense (Tre and Von) are coming off ACL issues where Tre already showed he wasn't yet the same player, and now we are going to see Von try and come back from the same injury at 34 years old.  So major questions about how good they can be next year despite being 2 of our most expensive and key players.  
• Our OL is in terrible shape and has its own question marks.  Will Morse be cut or even retire?  Both possibilities given his contract and cap savings if we cut him and also his concussion issues.  Is Brown really being looked at as the starter next year or will they bring in competition?  The OL needs a LOT of help. 
• Weapons for Josh are in need of an upgrade. 
• Looks like Frazier and Dorsey are going to be back most likely...both were atrocious in the Bengals game.  Dorsey was in his first year, so there is hope for improvement.  Hard to see Frazier as a guy who is going to make changes and get better given his defense has folded like a lawn chair 3 straight years in playoff losses. 
• Our Schedule and the AFC in general:
  • Schedule - 10 of our 17 games next year are against teams in the playoffs this year, including both Super Bowl teams and the Bengals.
  • Division - Every team in our division are potentially tough opponents and contenders to make the playoffs next season.  All 3 have no big QB contracts and are able to spend more to try and close the gap further with the Bills.  
  • AFC - Around the AFC there are some young ascending teams like Jags.  KC is still KC.  And Bengals have a TON of cap space to get even better this offseason.  

So sorry...being the 3rd ranked best Super Bowl odds really means very little.  The reality is that this is probably the biggest offseason of Beane's tenure since drafting Allen in terms of needing to get it right.  He doesn't have the war chest to make a lot of big moves.  Our cap is tight, we pick late in the rounds, and only have 6 draft picks.  

 

The good news is we still have a good roster overall and still more importantly have Allen and Diggs.  If Beane can make the right free agency decisions this year and get some good production from the rookie class next year, we very well could cement ourselves right there again with KC and Bengals as the biggest threats out of the AFC.  But the margin for error is smaller than its ever been for Beane this year, and that is a tall task for even the best GM's.  

 

I do trust Beane and have confidence in him.  So pointing out what is concerning does not mean its guaranteed doom and gloom.  Its about being a realist to what we are up against and what it will take to stay ahead of those behind us and over take those in front of us.  Beane is capable of doing it, but it won't be an easy feat to pull off in one offseason.  

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I mean we’re still a top 3 team in the AFC until proven otherwise. What’s the surprise?

Many fans are convinced we morphed into a bottom 5 NFL team. Why? Well, I'm not quite sure. But they are convinced.

[jaybills]

4 hours ago, Gregg said:

If they can improve the LOS on both sides of the ball and get a legit #2 WR then absolutely. But given our cap situation I don't know how active the Bills will be in FA. Beane really needs to hit a HR this draft. His draft record with the exception of Allen hasn't been all that great.

Yeah, he hit on the most important pick. The franchise pick. 

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, eball said:

2024 Super Bowl odds are out.  The Bills are no worse than 3rd at the large books.

 

Discuss...

 

 

Because none of the Moron Minority works in Vegas booking making organizations?

[LABILLBACKER]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

There is a MASSIVE difference of saying we are done and being concerned we will be able to make enough moves to get ahead of KC and Bengals next year.  

 

All these snarky comments about "how is this possible, I read we are done on here" type things in this thread are very short sighted.  Just because someone looks at the road ahead and sees the potential concerns does NOT mean everyone thinks the team is done.  If someone can't sit back and take an honest accounting of where we are at, that is on them.  

 

Reality:  

• We have 3 key starters up for Free Agency in Edmunds, Poyer, and Devin.  We do not know who will be back, if any, and the replacements for those that leave are not currently on this roster.  
• Our 2 best players on the defense (Tre and Von) are coming off ACL issues where Tre already showed he wasn't yet the same player, and now we are going to see Von try and come back from the same injury at 34 years old.  So major questions about how good they can be next year despite being 2 of our most expensive and key players.  
• Our OL is in terrible shape and has its own question marks.  Will Morse be cut or even retire?  Both possibilities given his contract and cap savings if we cut him and also his concussion issues.  Is Brown really being looked at as the starter next year or will they bring in competition?  The OL needs a LOT of help. 
• Weapons for Josh are in need of an upgrade. 
• Looks like Frazier and Dorsey are going to be back most likely...both were atrocious in the Bengals game.  Dorsey was in his first year, so there is hope for improvement.  Hard to see Frazier as a guy who is going to make changes and get better given his defense has folded like a lawn chair 3 straight years in playoff losses. 
• Our Schedule and the AFC in general:
  • Schedule - 10 of our 17 games next year are against teams in the playoffs this year, including both Super Bowl teams and the Bengals.
  • Division - Every team in our division are potentially tough opponents and contenders to make the playoffs next season.  All 3 have no big QB contracts and are able to spend more to try and close the gap further with the Bills.  
  • AFC - Around the AFC there are some young ascending teams like Jags.  KC is still KC.  And Bengals have a TON of cap space to get even better this offseason.  

So sorry...being the 3rd ranked best Super Bowl odds really means very little.  The reality is that this is probably the biggest offseason of Beane's tenure since drafting Allen in terms of needing to get it right.  He doesn't have the war chest to make a lot of big moves.  Our cap is tight, we pick late in the rounds, and only have 6 draft picks.  

 

The good news is we still have a good roster overall and still more importantly have Allen and Diggs.  If Beane can make the right free agency decisions this year and get some good production from the rookie class next year, we very well could cement ourselves right there again with KC and Bengals as the biggest threats out of the AFC.  But the margin for error is smaller than its ever been for Beane this year, and that is a tall task for even the best GM's.  

 

I do trust Beane and have confidence in him.  So pointing out what is concerning does not mean its guaranteed doom and gloom.  Its about being a realist to what we are up against and what it will take to stay ahead of those behind us and over take those in front of us.  Beane is capable of doing it, but it won't be an easy feat to pull off in one offseason.  

Great post Alphadawg.  Somebody who discusses issues with common sense. How refreshing. Nobody says we're done. With Josh running around making ridiculous plays we're pretty much guaranteed 10 wins every year. The problem lies how do we get to that next level. We need better coaching. We need better GM decisions.  We need healthy players. We need a season where the world isn't crashing down on the team in 10 different ways.  We need luck.  We're not done but we're hardly the SB favorites. 

[transient]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

 

 

Someone from the "done" crowd, please provide a link to anyone, anywhere on this website, suggesting the Bills are "done."

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

There is a MASSIVE difference of saying we are done and being concerned we will be able to make enough moves to get ahead of KC and Bengals next year.  

 

All these snarky comments about "how is this possible, I read we are done on here" type things in this thread are very short sighted.  Just because someone looks at the road ahead and sees the potential concerns does NOT mean everyone thinks the team is done.  If someone can't sit back and take an honest accounting of where we are at, that is on them.  

 

Reality:  

• We have 3 key starters up for Free Agency in Edmunds, Poyer, and Devin.  We do not know who will be back, if any, and the replacements for those that leave are not currently on this roster.  
• Our 2 best players on the defense (Tre and Von) are coming off ACL issues where Tre already showed he wasn't yet the same player, and now we are going to see Von try and come back from the same injury at 34 years old.  So major questions about how good they can be next year despite being 2 of our most expensive and key players.  
• Our OL is in terrible shape and has its own question marks.  Will Morse be cut or even retire?  Both possibilities given his contract and cap savings if we cut him and also his concussion issues.  Is Brown really being looked at as the starter next year or will they bring in competition?  The OL needs a LOT of help. 
• Weapons for Josh are in need of an upgrade. 
• Looks like Frazier and Dorsey are going to be back most likely...both were atrocious in the Bengals game.  Dorsey was in his first year, so there is hope for improvement.  Hard to see Frazier as a guy who is going to make changes and get better given his defense has folded like a lawn chair 3 straight years in playoff losses. 
• Our Schedule and the AFC in general:
  • Schedule - 10 of our 17 games next year are against teams in the playoffs this year, including both Super Bowl teams and the Bengals.
  • Division - Every team in our division are potentially tough opponents and contenders to make the playoffs next season.  All 3 have no big QB contracts and are able to spend more to try and close the gap further with the Bills.  
  • AFC - Around the AFC there are some young ascending teams like Jags.  KC is still KC.  And Bengals have a TON of cap space to get even better this offseason.  

So sorry...being the 3rd ranked best Super Bowl odds really means very little.  The reality is that this is probably the biggest offseason of Beane's tenure since drafting Allen in terms of needing to get it right.  He doesn't have the war chest to make a lot of big moves.  Our cap is tight, we pick late in the rounds, and only have 6 draft picks.  

 

The good news is we still have a good roster overall and still more importantly have Allen and Diggs.  If Beane can make the right free agency decisions this year and get some good production from the rookie class next year, we very well could cement ourselves right there again with KC and Bengals as the biggest threats out of the AFC.  But the margin for error is smaller than its ever been for Beane this year, and that is a tall task for even the best GM's.  

 

I do trust Beane and have confidence in him.  So pointing out what is concerning does not mean its guaranteed doom and gloom.  Its about being a realist to what we are up against and what it will take to stay ahead of those behind us and over take those in front of us.  Beane is capable of doing it, but it won't be an easy feat to pull off in one offseason.  

This seems to have touched a nerve, as though you think it was directed at rationale discourse on the Wall.

 

@Nextmanup I will grant you this, the mods are good at taking out the trash. There have been a bevy of doomsday threads, especially in the immediate aftermath of that game, that no longer exist, which made it harder than I thought it would have been to provide "receipts". I'm not going to search every individual thread to try and find the comments, but they're scattered throughout the board and there have been more of them than normal. I've seen predictions of last in the division, missing the playoffs, etc., which I equate with "done". I've also appreciated posts wtih the "I'm so done with this team" vibe in the wake of a 14 win season. Was it an overstatement that it's every other post: yes, of course it was. It's thankfully dying down a bit, but there were a lot more of "the sky is falling" posts than normal over the last few weeks.

 

@Alphadawg7 I agree with your concerns. I've stated numerous times that I'm in favor of moving on from Frazier, and that the OL and WR groups are in dire need of an upgrade. I also don't disagree that there are ascending teams that the Bills will need to contend with and that the road is getting harder for them. I don't consider this view to suggest you think the Bills are "done", though, either. I think the FO is fairly good at self evaluation when it comes to their offseason post-mortems and attempting to address their weaknesses, though they've missed in their execution at times. I think they overvalued the skill they had in the WR room last offseason, unfortunately, and it cost them. I do think, with a good offseason and some better injury luck next season, that they will be right back in the conversation next year, even with limited resources to be spent in FA.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, MJS said:

Many fans are convinced we morphed into a bottom 5 NFL team. Why? Well, I'm not quite sure. But they are convinced.

Many Bills fans think this is as good as we get with the current group.

 

No high draft pick. No cap space. So the biggest changes will have to come from coaching. That’s their belief.

 

The Bills can win the AFC with the right moves in the draft and UFA.

[ngbills]

Josh Allen

 

[MJS]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Many Bills fans think this is as good as we get with the current group.

 

No high draft pick. No cap space. So the biggest changes will have to come from coaching. That’s their belief.

 

The Bills can win the AFC with the right moves in the draft and UFA.

The Bills have plenty of flexibility in the cap. People don't seem to understand how the cap works. Beane can restructure to create a lot of cap space. He built these contracts to provide that flexibility.

 

It has gotten tighter, but there are plenty of things Beane can do. People were saying last season that Beane wouldn't be able to do anything, and he ended up bringing in Von Miller, re-signing every worthwhile Bills free agent, and completely revamping the interior dline.

 

I think fans just need to settle down and see how the off-season goes. And, you know, see if it is actually true that the Bills can't get better from here.

[947]

Will the odds change if Beane goes DL/Safety/LB in rounds 1-3 of the draft?

[Jerome007]

The overall odds for all NFL teams will change according to trades, losing or getting free agents, the draft, etc. But yeah, the Bills are far from done.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

36 minutes ago, MJS said:

The Bills have plenty of flexibility in the cap. People don't seem to understand how the cap works. Beane can restructure to create a lot of cap space. He built these contracts to provide that flexibility.

 

It has gotten tighter, but there are plenty of things Beane can do. People were saying last season that Beane wouldn't be able to do anything, and he ended up bringing in Von Miller, re-signing every worthwhile Bills free agent, and completely revamping the interior dline.

 

I think fans just need to settle down and see how the off-season goes. And, you know, see if it is actually true that the Bills can't get better from here.

There is definitely flexibility. 

[longtimebillsfan]

5 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Because Vegas isn't a bunch of panicking babies. 

You have just become my favorite poster.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Many Bills fans think this is as good as we get with the current group.

 

No high draft pick. No cap space. So the biggest changes will have to come from coaching. That’s their belief.

 

The Bills can win the AFC with the right moves in the draft and UFA.

I totally agree. There's still plenty of time for this organization to make improvements to the offense. Plenty of time for the defensive coaches to adjust philosophy. Plenty of time for Ken to actually create an offensive  identity.  Plenty of time for Brandon to have a great off-season. Stop expecting Josh to do it all and do the right thing. We're not done nor is anyone panicking but it would be naive to believe we don't have reason for concern.

[Donuts and Doritos]

5 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Because Vegas isn't a bunch of panicking babies. 

 

 

Perhaps not, but they've been known to take a gamble on things.

 

[boater]

Odds makers aren't predicting winners.

 

They set the line to get equal numbers of people on both sides.

 

The line is set as a function of popular sentiment, not who they think will win.

[Franco_92]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Vegas gave the bengals 6 points too ☠️☠️
 

This team sucks and will prob fall behind the Jets unless some major OL changes occur and Von Miller can provide a pass rush that all of Beane’s toys couldn’t 

 

Vegas is fooled by all the times Josh Allen had to bail this team out by himself.  

Those clowns in Vegas! If only they could see what YOU could see, in all your misery. Then maybe they'd know something about football.

[nedboy7]

Fans are too attached to their deep negativity and judgement.  It is what defines them as a person.   The ego hates to be disturbed. 

 

9 minutes ago, boater said:

Odds makers aren't predicting winners.

 

They set the line to get equal numbers of people on both sides.

 

The line is set as a function of popular sentiment, not who they think will win.

 

Yes and that line for the Bills is not a two sided bet like a spread for a game. 

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

A fool and his money are soon parted….

[Unforgiven]

All I know is they better try hard, I'm sick death of Mahomes getting all this recognition,

I heard a poll today he was rated 3rd best ? Super bowl QB after Brady/Montana...

The only difference between Josh and Mahomes is coaching and the players that Mahomes

has around him. Josh has like a poor man's offense, no line, no weapons beyond Diggs.

Sad.

[iinii]

It’s called a sucker bet. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Unforgiven said:

All I know is they better try hard, I'm sick death of Mahomes getting all this recognition,

I heard a poll today he was rated 3rd best ? Super bowl QB after Brady/Montana...

The only difference between Josh and Mahomes is coaching and the players that Mahomes

has around him. Josh has like a poor man's offense, no line, no weapons beyond Diggs.

Sad.

 

3rd best? He has only won once. Aikman won three and Bradshaw won 4. I am not saying they are better QB's then Mahomes. But they have certainly had more success in the Super Bowl then him. Based on championships they would rank higher than him.

[balln]

They were “favored “ this year. They weren’t even CLOSE against cincy. Vegas odds for next year mean jack shiit 

[The Red King]

Vegas isn't ranking anyone.  They are setting betting lines.  In this case they're hoping to fleece people who don't look deep enough into the Bills and free-pass them based on circumstances.

[ProcessTruster]

Agree with Vegas.  Money talks.  Crybaby fans walk.

 

 A healthy Bills roster goes a lot farther than they did this year.   Eagles had basically no injuries this year other than Hurts for a couple games that didn't matter.   

Edited February 10, 2023 by ProcessTruster

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

11 minutes ago, balln said:

They were “favored “ this year. They weren’t even CLOSE against cincy. Vegas odds for next year mean jack shiit 

You feel better now you got that off your chest.