The defense sucked....again

[Meatloaf63]

29 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Nick Chubb- 14 rushes 19 yards.  The defense is brutal….minus Rousseau and Edmunds (and to a lesser extent White).  

 

Our corners need to have better awareness playing the ball.  It was a rough 1st half for the d and we got bailed out Brissetts fumble, but Frazier had a very good second half after getting beatdown in the first half.  
 

the offense is what we need to worry about as of now.  Specifically, our slot usage.  Shakir……where are you?  Try cook in the slot.  Get the kid the ball.  He’s starting to look like a nice weapon 

We are so unimaginative on how we use our players it’s sad to be honest.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean...you understand it's much more difficult statistically for the offense to score when down late in games than it is for the defense to hold a late lead? There's a reason teams down late in games have such low win%

 

Yes but 1-7 is particularly poor.

22 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Bit of an oversimplification.  If you think the end of regulation and OT vs KC, the Jets game (especially the last drive) and the 2nd half of the Tenn game is simply a case of the defense "giving up plays", I think this discussion is pointless, with all due respect.

 

No, I have accepted entirely that the KC game was a clutch whiff by the defense. The other games they were just good rushing offenses that hit at this defenses weakest point. You can't be built to stop everything and everyone in the modern NFL. As I say, the 2000 Ravens are not walking through the door. 

[Billsforumsucks]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:28 PM, BisonMan said:

From the fumbled snap to the failure to play a 4th and long like it's a Hail Mary situation, I certainly think coaching is to blame. 

 

The Bills knew they were going to run a QB sneak the second that they made the goal line stand. Allen and Morse should have been practicing snaps on the sideline for a minute or two when that situation arose to ensure the most like failure point on that play was taken care of. Make a good snap there and the game is over or, at worst case, we give up a safety and set them back into their territory with no TOs and very little time. 

 

On the 4th and long for the Vikings, the coaches should have been drilling it into the secondary to play that like a Hail Mary and just try to "knock it down". The should have called a timeout before that play to ensure that everyone was on the right page because that was the ballgame if we just communicate that correctly to the players. 

 

Going back to the KC playoff game, the same knuckleheaded coaching showed up with 31 seconds left. Trying to keep them away from the sidelines while they had 3 timeouts. Timeouts were meaningless, yardage was the key point of failure. Again, they blew it. 

 

I hate to say it but Bill Bill Belichick doesn't have teams making those mistakes. 

Actually Bill Billicheat lost to the Chiefs after taking the lead with 16 seconds left, look it up, he actually did the EXACT same defend that we ran in that situation.

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

We are so unimaginative on how we use our players it’s sad to be honest.

Facts

[Billsforumsucks]

42 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

13 seconds was essentially 3 choke jobs by the defense - one on the Hill TD, the end of regulation debacle and then the surrender in OT.

 

Last week, up 27-10 at the end of the 3rd quarter - that shouldn't have even been a close game in the 4th.  

 

Game tied against the Jets, with a bad QB backed up on the 4-yard line, and the D essentially vomits on itself.

 

Tennessee last season - couldn't get a stop in the 2nd half - at all.  Tenn gets the ball down 4 with 8:00 left and crams it down our throat.

Wrong, Singletary fumble, JA fumble AND 2 JA INT’s are not on the D

[Billever76]

I've been on the we need a physical attacking defense for years....take the chances and sometimes you get burned but more than often that aggression will get home and bust the game wide open.....plus Edmunds would really shine if he was allowed to attack rather than read then react....I'm not confident at all with Leslie frazier

[RocCityRoller]

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes but 1-7 is particularly poor.

 

I disagree with the 1-7 assessment and think it's a pretty poor analysis to just look at which side of the team had the ball last and say they were the clutch or not clutch unit. 

 

The Jets game for example. Our last defensive possession we allowed the Jets to go on a game-winning 86 yard FG drive that chewed up 6 minutes, all 3 timeouts, and the 2 minute warning. Sure, the offense had the ball last and had enough time to potentially tie or take the lead and did not. NEITHER unit was clutch, and if I'm portioning blame I'd say the DEF was less clutch than the OFF. 

 

The Chiefs game I would say both units were clutch. The OFF scored the go-ahead TD with <2 minutes left. Then the DEF seals it with a turnover. 

 

 

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes but 1-7 is particularly poor.

 

No, I have accepted entirely that the KC game was a clutch whiff by the defense. The other games they were just good rushing offenses that hit at this defenses weakest point. You can't be built to stop everything and everyone in the modern NFL. As I say, the 2000 Ravens are not walking through the door. 

It's also QUITE a drop off from our normal offensive output. Not every good QB can be Brady or Rodgers, but Josh and the ball needing points late should be striking fear in defenses.

[billsfan_34]

Main mission was not letting Chubb beat us - mission accomplished. On (back) to Detroit.

[hemma]

I think McDermott should just tell White, “you’re starting this week”, then announce the same to the media.

If he refuses, get him out of the building, since he seems to like the ‘social aspects’ of being around the team.

 

Check with Beane & Pegula, then pop the boil, get it over with.  He’s here or he’s not.  At least you’ll be able to figure out some semblance of a plan for the rest of the season.  Definitely don’t want this dance to be continuing into the offseason.

[AlfaBill]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Better than I feel if we are down 3 and the O has the ball. In our 3-9 in one score games over the last two seasons (including playoffs) the O has had the ball at the end with a chance to win 8 of them. Of those 8 we have won 1. The defense has been on the field to protect a win twice (both at KC) and is 1-1. The other two (Steelers opening day 2021 and today) one team or other scored in garbage time to make it a one score game and it came down to fielding an onside kick. 

 

I know people don't want to hear it but if this team has a "clutch" problem it ain't on defense.

I suppose if you cherry pick games sure. But let’s be honest. Over the past 3 years(not 3 games) answer my original question honestly. We both know the answer. 

[Hebert19]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:08 PM, Bermuda Triangle said:

most of the threads here seem to be about Allen and his horrid play of late (and I'll be the first to say that he has been really bad), but is the defense getting yet ANOTHER free pass today?

 

The Vikes had their highest yardage output of the season today and converted countless 3rd & 4th and long plays.  I frankly don't even remember the last time Minnesota punted.    Did anyone honestly think that the D would force a punt in OT?  

 

Up 27-10 late in the third quarter, the Vikes gash the Bills for an 81-yard TD (let me guess, Sean - bad run fit, and you'll get that fixed!), score a TD on their next drive, and then march 75 yards, only to get stopped on 4th and goal from the 1.  In OT, they fairly easily drove downfield for the GW FG.

 

Is this the mark of a good defense?

We need Edmunds Elam and tre back and they will be fine 

[CSBill]

1 hour ago, Process said:

We can't win with our offense playing the way they have. Specifically Allen and our WRs. They are a bigger concern right now.

Didn’t we score 30 and 31 points in the last two games? Most, if not all, NFL teams would take that. 

[nosejob]

Forgive me for not having read all replies, but keeping in mind we played the Browns, and with all the previous games considered....Frazier couldn't get pressure with a warrant. We are a ***** defense when it comes to rush fo. Get lucky once in a while, but a jugs machine could give us a loss......

[RiotAct]

Just now, nosejob said:

Forgive me for not having read all replies, but keeping in mind we played the Browns, and with all the previous games considered....Frazier couldn't get pressure with a warrant. We are a ***** defense when it comes to rush fo. Get lucky once in a while, but a jugs machine could give us a loss......

they were getting great pressure in the 2nd half I thought…. Brissett was just a f***ing magician at evading.

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

I suppose if you cherry pick games sure. But let’s be honest. Over the past 3 years(not 3 games) answer my original question honestly. We both know the answer. 

 

I am not cherry picking I am looking at the last two seasons. Yes, I have confidence in our defense (fully healthy) to get a stop. We know we are down Micah, so really it has to be at full strength around that absence. If I am being asked about the defense that started today with 5 backups out there, then no, I don't.

Just now, RiotAct said:

they were getting great pressure in the 2nd half I thought…. Brissett was just a f***ing magician at evading.

 

And that Browns Oline is really good. If it isn't the best in the league it is up there.

[DuckyBoys]

Brissett did evade a few should have been sacks  The one time they dialed up two extra pass rushers Milano dropped him immediately  Seems Frazier is locked into base 4 man rush 99% of the time  It can be frustrating but seems they are sticking with their mindset  Up to the front 4 to win and get home more often or on key downs  They should look better once more healthy bodies return in the secondary and force qbs to hold it a extra second

[nosejob]

9 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

they were getting great pressure in the 2nd half I thought…. Brissett was just a f***ing magician at evading.

Well hopefully we won't face that caliber of QB again....sheesh

[nosejob]

BTW we are facing the Detroit Lions coming up. What's the plan? To hopefully outscore them? I think McD better take over this Defense now.....or it's his ass that should be on the fire.

[RiotAct]

13 minutes ago, nosejob said:

Well hopefully we won't face that caliber of QB again....sheesh

haha.  Well basically to close out the season we have Tua, Burrow, and a bunch of scrubs.  So Brissett might actually be in the upper echelon of that gaggle.

5 minutes ago, nosejob said:

BTW we are facing the Detroit Lions coming up. What's the plan? To hopefully outscore them? I think McD better take over this Defense now.....or it's his ass that should be on the fire.

watch us hold them to like 13 points

[Billsfan1972]

And Dallas went into Minnesota and allowed 3 points......  Yea I get injuries, but they have been meh to bad of late.  

 

Quit grasping at straws.....

[nosejob]

21 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Brissett did evade a few should have been sacks  The one time they dialed up two extra pass rushers Milano dropped him immediately  Seems Frazier is locked into base 4 man rush 99% of the time  It can be frustrating but seems they are sticking with their mindset  Up to the front 4 to win and get home more often or on key downs  They should look better once more healthy bodies return in the secondary and force qbs to hold it a extra second

 

21 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Brissett did evade a few should have been sacks  The one time they dialed up two extra pass rushers Milano dropped him immediately  Seems Frazier is locked into base 4 man rush 99% of the time  It can be frustrating but seems they are sticking with their mindset  Up to the front 4 to win and get home more often or on key downs  They should look better once more healthy bodies return in the secondary and force qbs to hold it a extra second

Or have 2 Bosas, a Donald a Mack and a Miller....

4 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

haha.  Well basically to close out the season we have Tua, Burrow, and a bunch of scrubs.  So Brissett might actually be in the upper echelon of that gaggle.

watch us hold them to like 13 points

I'll take that bet. Until we get a Defensive Co. with a pulse and some game face, we are gonna lose important games.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 minutes ago, nosejob said:

BTW we are facing the Detroit Lions coming up. What's the plan? To hopefully outscore them? I think McD better take over this Defense now.....or it's his ass that should be on the fire.

The plan is to get edmunds and Rousseau back 😂. Really all the defensive issues can be traced back to Dodson/Bernard 

 

I don’t think Detroit’s offensive line is as good as Cleveland’s and defensively they are worse than Cleveland also 

14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And Dallas went into Minnesota and allowed 3 points......  Yea I get injuries, but they have been meh to bad of late.  

 

Quit grasping at straws.....

Saying ‘yea I get injuries’ really kind of demonstrates you don’t get injuries to me lol. We are still missing two starting corners, have been missing two starting safeties the last few weeks and now have poyer playing hurt,  missing Rousseau, and have been missing one of edmunds/Milano consistently for a month now.  
 

if Dallas had injuries like that there is no chance they hold Minnesota to 3 points. It’s gotten pretty close to running with an entire second string defense at points in this season. 
 

teams with good offensive lines are gonna give us trouble until we get some help back in the secondary/ at coverage LB

Edited November 21, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Paup 1995MVP]

3 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Hopefully this isn’t the team we field come playoff time. White , Edmunds, Elam and Rousseau will be make us better. I still want to give the front 6 or 7 along with Poyer some credit. They played tough after a tough star where the Browns did anything they wanted.

We were up 31-10 in the 4th  qtr.  Problem is we can't play prevent because Jackson Benford T Johnson and Hamlin were all terrible in coverage.  And Dodson has no range whatsoever.  We needed to be more aggressive with our pass rush and plant Brissett in the turf.  

[Eastport bills]

45 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

We were up 31-10 in the 4th  qtr.  Problem is we can't play prevent because Jackson Benford T Johnson and Hamlin were all terrible in coverage.  And Dodson has no range whatsoever.  We needed to be more aggressive with our pass rush and plant Brissett in the turf.  

Just  get  these winnable games and hope we get healthy on the back end. You have to think Elam and White will get back after Detroit, and Rousseau and Edmunds should help in a big way. Detroit won’t be easy but if we win, the season sets up nicely.

[stevestojan]

Funny, in NFL.coms weekly “what we learned” article — which gives three short highlights from each game — they used one of those three to highlight how good the Bills’ D was. 
 

“ 3. Tip your cap to the Bills' defense. After trudging through feet of snow just to get to Detroit, Buffalo sure looked like a team that had dealt with a lot leading up to Sunday. Luckily for the Bills, their defense showed up before their offense. Buffalo stood tall in the face of early adversity, preventing the Browns from taking advantage of scoring opportunities in the first half, and when the second half arrived, it was time for the Bills to finish the job. Buffalo stuffed Cleveland's rushing attack, holding Nick Chubb to 19 yards on 14 carries, and pressuring Jacoby Brissett in the most important moments, preventing the Browns from responding. With each stop came a Bills response, and by the time the Browns finally found the end zone in the fourth quarter, the game was already decided. Matt Milano played a key role in his second game back from injury, recovering a fumble and recording Buffalo's lone sack of the day. Jordan Poyer's return also hindered Cleveland's attempts to move the ball with targets intended for David Njoku. All in all, the Bills defense deserves the game ball for this one. It'll need to keep this up in order to regain the AFC East lead.”

Edited November 21, 2022 by stevestojan

[BigAl2526]

The Bills are trying to hang on now, until they can get some of their injured players back.   Of course, it's the defense that's hurting right now at all three levels.   Having Poyer back helped in the game today, but the Bills have been fielding a mostly backup secondary for what seems like forever.  On the line, the Bills run an eight man rotation.  They finished the game today with half of their defensive end rotation out with injury.  Finally, they are missing half of their two LBs in their base nickel set.  I think they made a concerted effort to stop the run against Cleveland, since that is supposed to be Cleveland's strength on offense.  They were successful at that.  I think Cleveland was more adept at operating a passing offense than Buffalo hoped.  With everything else, Buffalo also had to play the game today on one day of practice to Cleveland's three days of practice.  All things considered, I'm not disappointed at all with a 7 point win and giving up 300 yards+ through the air to Cleveland.

[Process]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I'm really concerned about Tre White. The defense cannot be championship caliber until we have him back. Clearly there is some kind of mental thing going on with him and the longer it goes on the more concerned I become that he will not be back on the field this year. December 1 against the Pats is the deadline I'm looking at. If he's still not back by then I think we have a big problem on our hands.

If he doesn't play vs the Pats I'm just gonna assume he's waiting for the off-season to retire. 

[CoudyBills]

2 hours ago, nosejob said:

 

Or have 2 Bosas, a Donald a Mack and a Miller....

I'll take that bet. Until we get a Defensive Co. with a pulse and some game face, we are gonna lose important games.

Agreed.  I just realized while reading this thread that Leslie is a weekend at Bernie's, dude is actually deceased.

[Paup 1995MVP]

17 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Just  get  these winnable games and hope we get healthy on the back end. You have to think Elam and White will get back after Detroit, and Rousseau and Edmunds should help in a big way. Detroit won’t be easy but if we win, the season sets up nicely.

Exactly.  If we can get those 4 back, our defense looks so much stronger.  And we can be a real force through the rest of the season.

 

The offense should move the ball well and score a lot of points against the Lions secondary.  They have played better of late.  But we are better across the board then Detroit.  And I think our D line will get after Jared Goff.

[Bermuda Triangle]

Pathetic first half by the defense.  

[Whkfc]

Defense is absolutely awful

[Playoffs?]

Yep, let’s see if they adjust something, anything. AND we just lost freakin Von Miller. 

[Billsfan1972]

Wait the excuses are on the way.

 

Don't care if they shut them put the rest of the way, Detroit moving up and down the field

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Wait the excuses are on the way.

 

Don't care if they shut them put the rest of the way, Detroit moving up and down the field

They’re a good offense.

[TFBillsfan]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’re a good offense.

They are a good offense when you’re tackling stinks, give Goff plenty of time,  give the receivers plenty of cushion and allow them to continue converting 3rd and longs. It’s been a reoccurring trend by the D for most of the season.

[Billsfan1972]

31 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’re a good offense.

Just like Cleveland,  NYJ and Minnesota.  

 

Excuses excuses excuses 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Just like Cleveland,  NYJ and Minnesota.  

 

Excuses excuses excuses 

The Jets had 20 points. Cleveland couldn’t run and got a garbage time TD at the end to make it close. 
 

Your points stink.

[Bermuda Triangle]

Dane Jackson beat.

 

Drink.

 

Basically just laid down on the 2-point conversion.