How in the hell did Nathaniel Hackett become an NFL head coach?

[Rico]

54 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Because people don't do their research. 

 

All the media talks about is his time with the Packers. 

 

I remember Nate Hackett as the Syracuse Orange OC that followed Doug Marrone here. 

 

And he ran an awful offense here, followed Marone again to Jacksonville and ran another boring offense there. 

 

They've tried the same thing with Alex Van Pelt, he was around Rodgers and so he gets hype as the next great offensive mind. 

 

Eric B in Kansas City must just interview terribly. That's the only thing I can think. You would think that much time with Reid and Mahomes, he would be an offensive mastermind, but he must not be able to get words out well in the interview, or fails on the question of managing the entire team, not just the offense. 

Yep, Hackett and Marrone came to the Bills from friggin’ Syracuse.

 

Thanks, Russ.

[Big Turk]

41 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Not a fan of his hiring at all, but to fully ignore the fact that he had a top ten offense two years in a row, including the #1 overall offense in the league two years ago, to instead focus on his race is obtuse.    Also had a top ten offense in 2017 with Blake Bortles as his QB.

 

The guy has been a coach in college and the NFL for twenty years, and has been to the playoff multiple times.   Is he a good head coach, no, but neither is/was Todd Bowles who is on his second stint.  Flores, who you mention, despite the massive amount of hyperbolic media surrounding his tenure in Miami, was also not a good head coach.

 

A lot of NFL coaches get into the league based on contacts they made through family, or college.  To act like its not a "who you know" business is insane. 

 

That may be the case but the skill set needed to be a good head coach is far different than that of a coordinator, which is where many teams fail...Those type of skills are NOT easily obtained if a person doesn't have them...leadership, communication, CEO mentality, etc... a good portion of your success as a head coach is not directly related to football per se...much more is related to managing and leadership on a week to week basis.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Big Turk

[Utah John]

20 minutes ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

 

Gailey was the head coach the first few years of Spiller's career, then Marrone took over with Hackett as the OC

Thanks.  I've tried to delete all memories of those years.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Seriously.  The ONLY answer is nepotism and the old white boy network.  He has done literally nothing in his NFL coaching career to suggest he was prepared or competent to be an NFL head coach, and that is being displayed for all to see.

 

S-h-i-t like this is why Brian Flores' lawsuit is a legitimate concern for the NFL.

 

Disgusting.

 

 

Totally disagree - he was brought in for 1 reason and 1 reason only - the Broncos were hoping to lure Rodgers to Denver and Hackett was the lure.

 

They knew Rodgers was not happy with Lafleur and was a “free agent” and took a shot.

 

The fact he sucks was not a color thing - it was that he was associated with the best FA QB - and without that he sucks and his old QB sucks.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

30 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's silly to think he had anything to do with that offense, and that it wasnt completely Rodgers and LaFleur. Exactly the type of thinking that puts an incompetent person into a high profile HC job.

LaFleur was McVay's offensive coordinator, did McVay get him the job in GB?   If it was only Rodgers and LaFleur why do they suck this year?  Frank Reich was Doug Pederson's OC.    John Harbaugh was a special teams coordinator and defensive backs coach, did his last name get him his job?  Mike Tomlin was a coach under Tony Dungy and was only a 1 year defensive coordinator when he was hired, was it all Dungy?

 

Take a look back at the history of NFL coaching, there are a lot more "incompetent people" in those jobs than competent ones.    Point being, last names help, every head coach was at one point in time an assistant coach.  Saying anyone of these guys is only a head coach because of their last name, or the coach they coached under is so trite.    Nathaniel Hackett may be terrible as a head coach, but I promise you the guy knows more about football than most normal people have forgotten.     Funny how the same people on this board who think Nate Hackett is terrible at his job, will tell you how Belichick is the greatest coach of all time, and fail to make the connection as to why Belichick sucks at his job now too.

[Matt_In_NH]

Rodgers won the last two MVPs.  This year he is a JAG

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

LaFleur was McVay's offensive coordinator, did McVay get him the job in GB?  If it was only Rodgers and LaFleur why do they suck this year? 

 

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Rodgers won the last two MVPs.  This year he is a JAG

 

That has way more to do with losing Davante Adams than losing Nate Hackett.

[Rico]

True, Hackett is garbage, but let’s not pretend that Brian Flores is legit HC material either.

[london_bills]

Sean Payton 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Seriously.  The ONLY answer is nepotism and the old white boy network.  He has done literally nothing in his NFL coaching career to suggest he was prepared or competent to be an NFL head coach, and that is being displayed for all to see.

 

S-h-i-t like this is why Brian Flores' lawsuit is a legitimate concern for the NFL.

 

Disgusting.

 

This is why I think the NFL is approaching the Rooney Rule the wrong way. If you have a strong nepotism policy, you won’t have to worry about the Rooney Rule or the lack of minority candidates. 
 

I guarantee that if your dad was some sort of coach in the NFL, you would (with zero experience) be able to get some type of coaching job (at least an entry level one) in the NFL tomorrow.
 

The NFL has a serious nepotism problem. 

[gonzo1105]

Its the same as how Josh McDaniels, Adam Gase etc got jobs with all time great QB's. Stupidity. The fact that NFL owners and GM's etc don't see this is beyond me. Give me the guy who takes a below average QB to the playoffs or a coach who get a team less talented to play up over guys who have it easy coaching HOF QB's.

 

What Mike Kafka is doing with Daniel Jones is HC worthy. Lou Anarumo with the Bengals playing top 5 defense without a ton of household talent.  Those 2 would be at the top of my list. 

[Alphadawg7]

I can’t believe he is actually still in the league.  I didn’t even realize he was until he got the HC job in Denver.  I was stunned that he actually was in GB prior to that.  
 

Not only was he the worst OC I can remember in Bills history, but he’s actually an even much worse head coach.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he was fired already and really should be.  It’s that bad.  

[ticketssince61]

The problem with evaluating coordinators (as well as HC's) is how to differentiate between the coach and players

 

Does a great player(s) make a great coordinator or vice-versa?

 

I think anyone on this board could have been a great OC if they had Brady or Manning

 

 

 

 

 

 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

The old Adam Gase method of being Franchise QB adjacent.

[buffalobillswin]

Son of a coach and skin color. That’s usually all an owner needs to make the hire. 

[Gugny]

The Doug Marrone Coaching Tree ...

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

14 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Its the same as how Josh McDaniels, Adam Gase etc got jobs with all time great QB's. Stupidity. The fact that NFL owners and GM's etc don't see this is beyond me. Give me the guy who takes a below average QB to the playoffs or a coach who get a team less talented to play up over guys who have it easy coaching HOF QB's.

 

What Mike Kafka is doing with Daniel Jones is HC worthy. Lou Anarumo with the Bengals playing top 5 defense without a ton of household talent.  Those 2 would be at the top of my list. 

 

Counterpoint: Brian Daboll

 

He had a long history of being a bad OC until Allen started playing at an MVP level. 

 

Now he's doing well as Giants HC (although I'm a bit skeptical of their 6-1 record). 

[Freddie's Dead]

Hackett is not a good, HC, but let's face it, his biggest problem is not his coaching, it's how Russell Wilson is sucking out loud.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Seriously.  The ONLY answer is nepotism and the old white boy network.  He has done literally nothing in his NFL coaching career to suggest he was prepared or competent to be an NFL head coach, and that is being displayed for all to see.

 

S-h-i-t like this is why Brian Flores' lawsuit is a legitimate concern for the NFL.

 

Disgusting.

 

He was the OC of a good offense. That’s how it goes.

[Ralonzo]

 

1 hour ago, eball said:

Seriously.  The ONLY answer is nepotism and the old white boy network.  He has done literally nothing in his NFL coaching career to suggest he was prepared or competent to be an NFL head coach, and that is being displayed for all to see.

 

S-h-i-t like this is why Brian Flores' lawsuit is a legitimate concern for the NFL.

 

Disgusting.

 

 

So let me see if I understand what you're inferring: if any member of a {group} screws up at his job, it impugns the whole {group} (which everyone knows only helps their own), and we should look to other {groups} for filling that job. It can't possibly be that one guy is just a boob who conned a team into hiring him which has never happened before; no, there's a vast conspiracy to promote inferior candidates based on {group identity} to ensure that the franchise loses as many games as possible. How obvious, it's been staring us all in the face and we just weren't as enlightened to see it.

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Ralonzo
make less specific

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Obviously coming from the St. Doug coaching tree helped too.

Obviously 

[AuntieEm]

27 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Its the same as how Josh McDaniels, Adam Gase etc got jobs with all time great QB's. Stupidity. The fact that NFL owners and GM's etc don't see this is beyond me. Give me the guy who takes a below average QB to the playoffs or a coach who get a team less talented to play up over guys who have it easy coaching HOF QB's.

 

What Mike Kafka is doing with Daniel Jones is HC worthy. Lou Anarumo with the Bengals playing top 5 defense without a ton of household talent.  Those 2 would be at the top of my list. 

   It is also where the number of HC's hire sons  getting them in the system.  Some may even be decent coaches having learned from their fathers but there's also plenty of dead weight only collecting a check never earning it.

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by AuntieEm

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Convinced he got it strictly so that Rodgers would potentially ok a trade to Denver 

[Saint Doug]

2 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

 

So let me see if I understand what you're inferring: if any member of a race screws up at his job, it impugns the whole race (which everyone knows only helps their own), and we should look to other races for filling that job. It can't possibly be that one guy is just a boob who conned a team into hiring him which has never happened before; no, there's a vast conspiracy to promote inferior candidates based on skin color to ensure that the franchise loses as many games as possible. How obvious, it's been staring us all in the face and we just weren't as enlightened to see it.

 

There’s no doubt that the NFL has a long history of hiring coaches will little experience or who may not be qualified. Some have plenty of experience and are just incompetent. Some succeed, but a lot fail. I guess the question becomes does this happen with black candidates. I’m not so sure and would want to view the data. I’m sure it’s out there. But, I’m certainly am going to outright dismiss race as a factor just because I don’t feel like talking about racism. 

[bigK14094]

I wondered how he got the job when I heard his name.  He had to deal with EJ Manual with the Bills, so he was snake bit from the start.  But, still....I wondered.  BTw, it now appears the Geno Smith/ EJ Manuel controversy is finally over.  After 10 years, Gino is a pro finally at Seattle!

[SirAndrew]

49 minutes ago, Rico said:

Yep, Hackett and Marrone came to the Bills from friggin’ Syracuse.

 

Thanks, Russ.

I’m not a big fan of college coach hires in general, but poaching coaches from Syracuse really is low. I’ll never get over the idea of a Syracuse coach turning around an NFL franchise, unbelievable. 

[Ralonzo]

1 minute ago, Saint Doug said:

There’s no doubt that the NFL has a long history of hiring coaches will little experience or who may not be qualified. Some have plenty of experience and are just incompetent. Some succeed, but a lot fail. I guess the question becomes does this happen with black candidates. I’m not so sure and would want to view the data. I’m sure it’s out there. But, I’m certainly am going to outright dismiss race as a factor just because I don’t feel like talking about racism. 

 

Yeah, I think that's the strong implication of that in OP, but I edited my post to make it less specific to strictly race as the driver and make the point for any particular {group}, the question being would teams willingly tank just to stay within their group. The interesting flip side when race is involved in the NFL are the already existing incentives driver solely by race and no other purpose (i.e. comp picks). If anything, that is what provides promotion incentives apart from job performance, and indeed is the stated goal per the NFL.

 

As far as Hackett goes, it's no more the Old White Guy Conspiracy than the Bills hiring Rex Ryan or Gregggg Williams or Hank Bullough. It was just plain dumb.

[Rigotz]

I don't really see this as a race thing as much as it is a network/nepotism issue.

 

Saint Doug found a way to stick around the NFL for way too long and Hackett was his best man... brought him over from Syracuse Offense Coordinator.

 

Syracuse.

 

Offensive Coordinator.

[Matt_In_NH]

57 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

That has way more to do with losing Davante Adams than losing Nate Hackett.

Maybe.   Not really voting for Hackett.  Rather just responding to “ what has he done”

[Warcodered]

38 minutes ago, Gugny said:

The Doug Marrone Coaching Tree ...

 

[Albany,n.y.]

27 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

I wondered how he got the job when I heard his name.  He had to deal with EJ Manual with the Bills, so he was snake bit from the start.  But, still....I wondered.  BTw, it now appears the Geno Smith/ EJ Manuel controversy is finally over.  After 10 years, Gino is a pro finally at Seattle!

Geno's year may make Seahawks OC Gene Waldron the next hot assistant coach next January.  Getting Geno to play quality football in his 10th season is nothing short of wizardry.  

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I don't really see this as a race thing as much as it is a network/nepotism issue.

 

Saint Doug found a way to stick around the NFL for way too long and Hackett was his best man... brought him over from Syracuse Offense Coordinator.

 

Syracuse.

 

Offensive Coordinator.

 

Sure, technically it is more a nepotism issue nowadays than someone in a 2022 NFL Front Office saying "No Blacks".

 

However, for a loooong time the NFL avoided hiring black coaches. And now, we have a nepotism issue where teams favor hiring the sons/grandsons of coaches from when they DID say "No Blacks". So guess who isnt included in those nepotism hires? Outside races.

 

So it is indirectly and inadvertently a race issue.

 

Nuance.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

34 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Convinced he got it strictly so that Rodgers would potentially ok a trade to Denver 

 

Makes sense - they panic bought in on Wilson.  

 

I think the big issue i see there, aside from Wilsons contract and general performance, is:

 

Jeudy is not good.

Hamler is not good.

Sutton is Davante parker and they just gave him a big extension.  

Patrick is hurt.

 

They need a new coach but man, everyone expected them all to improve with Wilson and watching them they are just so bad.  

 

[Albany,n.y.]

I don't buy the race being a reason Hackett is a head coach as has been suggested.  It was all about getting Rodgers to Denver, nothing more than that.  

 

The irony is that if Hackett gets the boot during the season his replacement will be DC Ejiro Evero, who will have a good chance of getting the job full time if he turns things around, which once Hackett is gone, is likely.  

[wppete]

It’s mind boggling he is a HC and Frazier isn’t. What more does a franchise want then what they can get hiring Frazier? He has everything, playing experience, HC experience, DC experience and top defense. He is a respected guy, a leader and can be a face of the franchise. 

[corta765]

So from what I remember this past offseason the idea was Hackett and Rodgers were a package deal. Apparently Rodgers really liked Hackett as his dude calling plays etc.. (I know make the jokes lol) and Denver basically went full court press for Rodgers right down to hiring Hackett as a coach. My understanding from reading NFL media circles is once they didn't get Rodgers it was plan B for Wilson while at the same time internally acknowledging Hackett may not be the best coach if they get Wilson but they literally just hired him and he had good reviews at least from GB.

 

The hype train for Hackett was he managed a middling offense for the Bills, he got more out of Bortles then anyone, and then in GB Rodgers had three incredible seasons including two MVPs. Not saying I agree with this by the way, I 100% think it was a mistake and I never got the hype for him but the NFL media spins things how they want.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I don't buy the race being a reason Hackett is a head coach as has been suggested.  It was all about getting Rodgers to Denver, nothing more than that.  

 

The irony is that if Hackett gets the boot during the season his replacement will be DC Ejiro Evero, who will have a good chance of getting the job full time if he turns things around, which once Hackett is gone, is likely.  

 

Play actions and boot action on early downs would go a LONG way.  They seem to run it on 1st down too much.  

1 minute ago, corta765 said:

So from what I remember this past offseason the idea was Hackett and Rodgers were a package deal. Apparently Rodgers really liked Hackett as his dude calling plays etc.. (I know make the jokes lol) and Denver basically went full court press for Rodgers right down to hiring Hackett as a coach. My understanding from reading NFL media circles is once they didn't get Rodgers it was plan B for Wilson while at the same time internally acknowledging Hackett may not be the best coach if they get Wilson but they literally just hired him and he had good reviews at least from GB.

 

The hype train for Hackett was he managed a middling offense for the Bills, he got more out of Bortles then anyone, and then in GB Rodgers had three incredible seasons including two MVPs. Not saying I agree with this by the way, I 100% think it was a mistake and I never got the hype for him but the NFL media spins things how they want.

 

Adam Gase spun the Manning MVP into 2 HC jobs.  

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

He did have the best scoring offense in 2020, and GB was 13-3 during his 3 seasons as OC there

Now they also had a sound defense and Aaron Rodgers

 

But I guess the idea was if they landed a different top QB it would work the same?

 

I'm not saying that Hackett was the best choice for the Denver job but I'm not sure how you get the "nepotism" or the "old white boy network" out of this.

 

The trend for several years in the NFL has been to hire guys associated with a hot offense (college or pro as HC) and in particular, who only have 1-2 years as OC or even 0 years as OC.

 

Kliff Kingsbury    hot college coach from Texas Tech

Arthur Smith       2 years as hot OC for Tennessee Titans

Matt Rhule          hot college coach for Baylor and Temple

Zac Taylor           QB and WR coach for LA Rams 2017-2018 (I didn't think this would work but it took them to the 2021 Superbowl.....)

Kevin Stefanski   almost 2 years as hot OC for Minn. Vikings

Matt LaFleur        1 year as Rams OC, 1 year as Titans OC

Mike McDaniel     1 year as SF 49ers OC

Kevin OConnell    2 years as LA Rams OC

 

That's  1/4 of the head coaches in the NFL fitting that "little or no experience as an NFL offensive coordinator"

 

TBT I think the nepotism/cronyism part more comes in with hiring retreads like Mike McCarthy, Doug Pederson, Ron Rivera.

 

 

So the rebuttal to an argument about NFL teams hiring the same type of guys is to point to an example of 8 white dudes who were hired as HC's?

 

 

 

[eball]

47 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Yeah, I think that's the strong implication of that in OP, but I edited my post to make it less specific to strictly race as the driver and make the point for any particular {group}, the question being would teams willingly tank just to stay within their group. The interesting flip side when race is involved in the NFL are the already existing incentives driver solely by race and no other purpose (i.e. comp picks). If anything, that is what provides promotion incentives apart from job performance, and indeed is the stated goal per the NFL.

 

As far as Hackett goes, it's no more the Old White Guy Conspiracy than the Bills hiring Rex Ryan or Gregggg Williams or Hank Bullough. It was just plain dumb.

 

It is most definitely more "hire one of our own" than "let's hire a hot new coaching prospect."  Hackett was neither hot nor new -- he has been floating around the NFL doing an adequate (at best) job for more than a decade.  And as for his "success" in Green Bay...I'd argue both Joe Philbin and Tom Clements had equal (or better) success "coordinating" an offense led by a HOF QB.

 

I think it's equal parts dumb and biased.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by eball

[corta765]

9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Play actions and boot action on early downs would go a LONG way.  They seem to run it on 1st down too much.  

 

Adam Gase spun the Manning MVP into 2 HC jobs.  

 

Basically this ^