Tre White expected back to full practice after the Bye (update - won’t play vs GB)

[YoloinOhio]

 

[WotAGuy]

This is just Pegula throwing down the gauntlet and saying “No renderings, No Tre”

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

Is putting him on the season ending IR in play?  I’m starting to think it might be 

 

Not based on the video, no.

[freddyjj]

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

WGR noted the no red shirt but also noted he was wearing sneakers and not cleats.   

[H2o]

17 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Bills fans everywhere

 

The disappointed TSW doom and gloom "docs"

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

All you get from McDermott is taking it day by day.

[JDHillFan]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He def had a set back… 9 months is the typical date when returning back to sport… he’s at around 11 months post surgery. 

Gus Edwards just came back Sunday. Out since Sept 21. Every player is different. The 9 months as a deadline or there was a setback doesn’t hold water. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

What is a normal “setback” for an ACL?

 

Like a sprained ankle you can re-roll it and the swelling comes back.

 

Is this the same for an ACL? Where there is soreness?

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, GolfandBills said:

Is putting him on the season ending IR in play?  I’m starting to think it might be 

Why?  They are clearly taking the smart approach of slowly ramping him up to full speed.  If getting him fully 100% healthy and in game shape means another 4 weeks on the inactive list, that's fine with me.  We need him in January.

[BuffaloBill]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Why?  They are clearly taking the smart approach of slowly ramping him up to full speed.  If getting him fully 100% healthy and in game shape means another 4 weeks on the inactive list, that's fine with me.  We need him in January.

 

 

Amen to this ^^^^

[RiotAct]

58 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

This is just Pegula throwing down the gauntlet and saying “No renderings, No Tre”

Scorched Earth… I like it.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Arkady Renko said:

You usually wait at least three weeks to have the reconstruction to let the area be less inflamed. 

Yes I did both my ACL and each knee that was the case

23 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What is a normal “setback” for an ACL?

 

Like a sprained ankle you can re-roll it and the swelling comes back.

 

Is this the same for an ACL? Where there is soreness?

I am no expert and I am sure there has been a ton of development since my experience

 

But I would imagine a 'setback' could be anything from structural integrity issues (which would be major imo) to something like hamstring or quad soreness (still important as the muscles stabilize the knee) which while still being important to the knee would not necessarily bode poorly for a full recovery

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

What’s the rush? The Bills still have 14 games left, 15 if they have to play wild card weekend. Finishing strong is most important!

[krf139]

28 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Why?  They are clearly taking the smart approach of slowly ramping him up to full speed.  If getting him fully 100% healthy and in game shape means another 4 weeks on the inactive list, that's fine with me.  We need him in January.

Then why doesn’t Sean just say this? His cryptic, secretive comments during pressers raise eyebrows of anyone other than pandering media who refuse to probe into this 

[Donuts and Doritos]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

All you get from McDermott is taking it day by day.

 

Where have I heard that before? 🤔

 

[TheBrownBear]

2 minutes ago, krf139 said:

Then why doesn’t Sean just say this? His cryptic, secretive comments during pressers raise eyebrows of anyone other than pandering media who refuse to probe into this 

If the recovery timetable is a truly fluid situation (which it seems to be), then why make a promise that you may not be able to keep to appease a few whiny fans?  Coach McDermott seems to be handling it perfectly.

[BullBuchanan]

there's no reason to rush it. If I were McD I'd just have him be our reserve inactive until December. Get a couple of weeks of practice in the cold and then off to the playoffs

 

[Big Turk]

44 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What is a normal “setback” for an ACL?

 

Like a sprained ankle you can re-roll it and the swelling comes back.

 

Is this the same for an ACL? Where there is soreness?

 

I would think maybe things like scar tissue or some swelling, although likely what is happening is everyone has different recovery rates and the Bills do things out of abundance of caution in terms of injuries so I would expect they would give him some extra time even after he gets cleared.  Part of that is also making sure he is ready from a football standpoint after not being on the field for almost a year at this point too.

[BillsFanForever19]

I hope now all of you who were saying it was possible for Tre to be ready by the start of the season realize how wrong you were. Heck, I was taking crap for saying before the Chiefs game that McDermott wouldn't play him until this Sunday and even that wasn't right.

[krf139]

27 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

If the recovery timetable is a truly fluid situation (which it seems to be), then why make a promise that you may not be able to keep to appease a few whiny fans?  Coach McDermott seems to be handling it perfectly.

Again, why doesn’t he say this? He seems very secretive in a bizarre way 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I hope now all of you who were saying it was possible for Tre to be ready by the start of the season realize how wrong you were. Heck, I was taking crap for saying before the Chiefs game that McDermott wouldn't play him until this Sunday and even that wasn't right.

 

I never really thought that because the Bills D was playing very well even without Tre so there was no need to try and rush him back to begin with, but two, that the Bills almost always err on the side of caution with these type of things so they were likely to take longer, not shorter, to get him back and ready to go.

 

Additionally, there is the conditioning and football aspects that he needs to be eased back into as well.  After being out almost a year, it would be a little foolish to throw him back out there immediately without making sure he has had enough time to acclimate properly and feel as ready as he can be without actually playing in a game.

2 minutes ago, krf139 said:

Again, why doesn’t he say this? He seems very secretive in a bizarre way 

 

Not really...if you have heard him talk about injuries, this is pretty much how he handles them for the last 5 years. Go back and listen to his press conferences when he is asked.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, BillyBilliams said:

 

Sounds reasonable.  However, he was injured Thanksgiving last year.  It's been 11 months.  He's been longer than what this suggests.

 

? He had surgery Dec 16th

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

All you get from McDermott is taking it day by day.

Stef said he took a rep against him and he look good 

29 minutes ago, krf139 said:

Again, why doesn’t he say this? He seems very secretive in a bizarre way 

Every single injury this year unless it’s IR: “taking it day by day” 

33 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I hope now all of you who were saying it was possible for Tre to be ready by the start of the season realize how wrong you were. Heck, I was taking crap for saying before the Chiefs game that McDermott wouldn't play him until this Sunday and even that wasn't right.

Do you really hope they all realize how wrong they were? Why… 

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

40 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I hope now all of you who were saying it was possible for Tre to be ready by the start of the season realize how wrong you were. Heck, I was taking crap for saying before the Chiefs game that McDermott wouldn't play him until this Sunday and even that wasn't right.

 

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Do you really hope they all realize how wrong they were? Why… 

We have all learned our lesson but good this time, gents!

[strive_for_five_guy]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I wonder if it’s just as simple as the current guys are playing well so they feel they can just is Trey along 

 

Remember the chance of coming down with another injury due to such a long way off like a hamstring is very real

No, you either:

1.) Must be concerned that there’s been an additional setback in his recovery, OR

2.) Demand an apology if you had suggested there was no way that Tre would be back by the start of the season, and someone had told you otherwise.

Edited October 26, 2022 by strive_for_five_guy

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

maybe not right away, but he IS a top 5 CB, or at least top 10 when healthy and rolling

 

But you're right, he is going to need some time to ramp up and get rid of the rust 

Go ahead and activate him next week but keep his practice volume slow. I want him available for the playoffs. Take your time with him.

[BillsFanForever19]

27 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Do you really hope they all realize how wrong they were? Why… 

 

Because I like others who have posted on this very thread saying the same thing were at best argued with and at worst ridiculed for pointing out common logic.

[Beck Water]

I found this article from Nov 27, 2021, the day after Tre White's injury

 

https://thebuffalofanatics.com/the-tredavious-white-acl-injury/

 

It quotes this article:

Shah VM, Andrews JR, Fleisig GS, McMichael CS, Lemak LJ. Return to Play after Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction in National Football League Athletes. The American Journal of Sports Medicine. 2010; 38(11): 2233-2239.

 

Quote

Adrian Peterson famously came back in eight months to play after his ACL surgery. However, the average time it takes to return to play in the NFL is 10.8 months (4). With an estimated surgical date of December 16th, White should be back in October or November 2022. Barring an expedited recovery, White is a strong candidate to start next season on the PUP list.

 

The author, Alex Lucci, is on twitter as @ThighDoctor, and does injury analysis for Buffalo Fanatics (and may actually be a practicing physician as opposed to us opining galoots on a message board, but that's not why I linked it here.

 

I thought it had an especially clear and lucid explanation of Tre White's injury with clear graphics and stuff.

 

Of course, it also cites another source that the average RTP time in the NFL is 10.8 months, meaning early-mid November - not as early as we might have hoped, but also not at all out of the ordinary for an NFL player.  

 

But that's not why I posted it, honest, I only posted it for the pictures 😁

Edited October 27, 2022 by Beck Water

[without a drought]

I said that he'd be back when he's healthy,  do I get gold star or something?

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is concerning to me. We are 11 months removed from the injury now and we are 10 and a half months removed from the surgery. From what was described to us at the time as an ACL with no other ligament or structural damage associated he is behind schedule. I think there was a setback somewhere that the team have not made public. That is their right to do so. But he is behind any normal schedule unless the way they described the injury initially was in fact inaccurate and there was additional damage. It is that latter possibility that I confess is concerning me a little. 

Well Ronald Acuna of the Atlanta Braves had an acl tear July 2021.

 

He missed the start of 2022 season. When he came back midway through the 2022 season, he suffered from pain an swelling in the knee.

 

He missed lots of games and was hesitant to play.

 

The Braves training staff told him it was normal to feel pain and swelling as a normal part of the rehab process. He had MRIs but there was no further damage.

 

I suspect that White is ok but it is entirely possible that White is feeling pain as he is training now and it is unsettling to him.

 

Sometimes if you feel pain you may feel that you're not ready to go

[Demongyz]

He needs to get in the best shape he can before they play a good team.  Keep him working out and getting healthy.

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Well Ronald Acuna of the Atlanta Braves had an acl tear July 2021.

 

He missed the start of 2022 season. When he came back midway through the 2022 season, he suffered from pain an swelling in the knee.

 

He missed lots of games and was hesitant to play.

 

The Braves training staff told him it was normal to feel pain and swelling as a normal part of the rehab process. He had MRIs but there was no further damage.

 

I suspect that White is ok but it is entirely possible that White is feeling pain as he is training now and it is unsettling to him.

 

Sometimes if you feel pain you may feel that you're not ready to go

 

I should probably STFU but I had quiche for dinner so I'll open my pie hole again

 

It's pretty common to have pain and swelling during rehab for an ACL.  The traditional sports medicine rehab viewpoint is "push through it", it's normal.  Civilians are usually told back off, rest and ice, then resume.

 

Another theory is that pain means something - it may mean that some of the little stabilizing muscles, aren't properly being activated or aren't strong enough and the rehabbing athlete needs to back off, map out what muscles aren't working correctly, and address this (a good PT can do this on exam, but there are now electrical gizmos designed to do this) with focused exercises and stimulation.

 

Harrison Phillips, who tore his ACL in the 3rd week of September 2019, later admitted he was still struggling with it in early September 2020 (and struggling to perform up to standard).  He said that when he would jump and land, pain would shoot through his knee and it wasn't until 2021 that he felt normal and could jump up and down multiple times.  Pretty sure Phillips had his surgery in Buffalo with the Bills team doctors.

 

It's been mentioned by Beane that Tre White had his surgery elsewhere and the Bills doctors and team are having to work with his doctors and rehab team.  Tre is undoubtedly feeling pain and experiencing swelling, but I doubt it's "unsettling to him" per se - meaning no offense to baseball players who are fantastic athletes, but football players are accustomed to playing through levels of pain that baseball players typically aren't.   There may be a disconnect between the evaluation of the team's trainers and physicians and Tre's trainers and physicians, where the team feels "good to go" and Tre's docs feel "not to our standard yet, need to strengthen this and activate that". 

 

This kind of disconnect or difference in standards/protocols could be one driver of the apparent mixed messages fans are getting.

 

40 minutes ago, without a drought said:

I said that he'd be back when he's healthy,  do I get gold star or something?

 

⭐

Edited October 27, 2022 by Beck Water

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is concerning to me. We are 11 months removed from the injury now and we are 10 and a half months removed from the surgery. From what was described to us at the time as an ACL with no other ligament or structural damage associated he is behind schedule. I think there was a setback somewhere that the team have not made public. That is their right to do so. But he is behind any normal schedule unless the way they described the injury initially was in fact inaccurate and there was additional damage. It is that latter possibility that I confess is concerning me a little. 

 

Seems to me he is on schedule

[Scott7975]

In case it wasnt mentioned, as I didnt read the entire thread, White has to be activated by 4pm Nov 2.

[Richard Noggin]

33 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

In case it wasnt mentioned, as I didnt read the entire thread, White has to be activated by 4pm Nov 2.

 

And we probably all agree he WILL be activated by that deadline, right?

 

Doesn't mean he has to be active the following game day, of course. Just means he has to take up a spot on the 53. 

[SBbeliever]

On 10/17/2022 at 2:43 PM, Roundybout said:

 

Gonna say Dane because of McD's fondness for vets over rookies. I'd guess they rotate plenty, though. 

White has been ruled out for the Packers game per the Associated Press

[Ray Stonada]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have no scientific knoweldge or training. But I am basing it on conversations with people who have. I am not just spitballing. I trust what they tell me. One is the Head of Medicine at a professional soccer club the other is an orthopedic surgeon at one of the top hospitals in London. Had the same conversation with them basically totally unrelated to each other but about modern ACL recovery rates for pro athletes. Now maybe the NFL is so sufficiently different that it renders those conversations irrelevant. But I see examples in the NFL in the last few years - Amari Rodgers and Chris Godwin to name two - that make me sceptical of that.

 

Tackling and being driven backwards and laterally by force by other players makes football much more stressful on the knee joints than soccer. So the soccer timelines don't apply, IMO.

 

I also think it's very wise not to push Tre to return as soon as possible when there is no pressing need for it.

 

Even if he returns after another 4 weeks on IR, he will have 6 regular season games to shake off the rust before the playoffs. Plenty of time. 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Because I like others who have posted on this very thread saying the same thing were at best argued with and at worst ridiculed for pointing out common logic.

Sounds like you’re more concerned about being right about this then White’s health just saying

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I hope now all of you who were saying it was possible for Tre to be ready by the start of the season realize how wrong you were. Heck, I was taking crap for saying before the Chiefs game that McDermott wouldn't play him until this Sunday and even that wasn't right.

It was possible. Players have done it before. Tre didn’t.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Why do some keep saying Tre could go on another 4 weeks of IR?  My understanding is that if Tre is not added to the 53-man roster by the Jets game, he must go on season-ending IR.  Which is correct?