Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[RocCityRoller]

5 hours ago, wppete said:

Lamar losing a few million the last few weeks. Doesn’t look good passing. 

 

5 hours ago, Limeaid said:

He has been able to make only a few passes to wide receivers.

 

His passing has suffered since his best/ most explosive WR went down in the game vs Buffalo (Rashod Bateman).

Duvernay is a nice compliment but not a number one.

 

Some of the RBs like Dobbins and Hill that Baltimore relies on to get the run game going have missed time too.

Let's put all the data into the conversation.

Edited October 17, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[AlfaBill]

5 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

 

His passing has suffered since his best/ most explosive WR went down in the game vs Buffalo (Rashod Bateman).

Duvernay is a nice compliment but not a number one.

 

Some of the RBs like Dobbins and Hill that Baltimore relies on to get the run game going have missed time too.

Let's put all the data into the conversation.

Either you’re an elite QB who makes others around him great or you’re not. Josh works with Kumerow. Morris. Rookie Cook. Hobbled Davis. No Knox. No excuses. 
 

Lamar is not elite. He’s a slightly above average Qb who is a dangerous runner. It’s been 5 years and lots of excuse. 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, AlfaBill said:

Either you’re an elite QB who makes others around him great or you’re not. Josh works with Kumerow. Morris. Rookie Cook. Hobbled Davis. No Knox. No excuses. 
 

Lamar is not elite. He’s a slightly above average Qb who is a dangerous runner. It’s been 5 years and lots of excuse. 

Where did I say he was?

 

Congrats, you won an argument you created in your head.

 

[AlfaBill]

8 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Where did I say he was?

 

Congrats, you won an argument you created in your head.

 

You’re a funny guy. This whole conversation is about Lamar and his lack of a super contract (for elite QBs). What conversation are you part of?

 

You must have graduated at the top of your class. Btw that was sarcasm. 

[Jauronimo]

9 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

Politics? Kelly was twice the QB. Not sure what the monkey comment is about. 
Perhaps it’s your bedtime

A lemur is NOT a monkey!!! Lemurs are primates but not all primates are monkeys.  Lemurs have wet noses unlike the common dry faced monkey.  I have no idea what this has to do with the Ravens QB situation but the lemur misinformation spreading on this board is out of control!

 

[wppete]

9 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

 

His passing has suffered since his best/ most explosive WR went down in the game vs Buffalo (Rashod Bateman).

Duvernay is a nice compliment but not a number one.

 

Some of the RBs like Dobbins and Hill that Baltimore relies on to get the run game going have missed time too.

Let's put all the data into the conversation.

[Beast]

14 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Ownership smart enough to not overpay him after watching a terrible bills defense lock him up in the playoffs.  
 

A terrible Bills defense?

[Cray51]

Lamar is a great QB.  If Allen and Mahomes are 10/10, Lamar is an 8.5.

[Teddy KGB]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

A terrible Bills defense?

the one he faced in the playoffs a few years ago.    Yes, they kinda stunk.   

[Albany,n.y.]

9 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

Either you’re an elite QB who makes others around him great or you’re not. Josh works with Kumerow. Morris. Rookie Cook. Hobbled Davis. No Knox. No excuses. 
 

Lamar is not elite. He’s a slightly above average Qb who is a dangerous runner. It’s been 5 years and lots of excuse. 

He's still going to get paid because he is still in the 1st half of starting QBs in the league-that's what slightly above average says & you're right about that.  Look at the salaries some QBs are getting.  The top 3 are not getting the job done. Rodgers is getting money based on last year & beyond, Wilson may be on the decline, but had leverage because of the trade, Murray is getting big money in spite of mediocre production, because just like Lamar Jackson in Baltimore the team really has no alternative but to pay him.  Look at the rest of the guys in the 30-40 million range just below Josh, I wouldn't want to be paying any of those guys big bucks, but that's the current rate for slightly above average & the price is only going up each year.

Here are the salary rankings for the top-20 quarterbacks based on average annual value, per Over The Cap.

1. Aaron Rodgers (Packers): $50.3 million (3-year, $150.8 million contract)
2. Russell Wilson (Broncos): $49 million (5-year, $245 million contract)
3. Kyler Murray (Cardinals): $46.1 million (5-year, $230.5 million contract)
4. Deshaun Watson (Browns): $46 million (5-year $230 million contract)
5. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs): $45 million (10-year $450 million contract)
6. Josh Allen (Bills): $43 million (6-year $258 million contract)
7. Derek Carr (Raiders): $40.47 million (3-year, $121.4 million contract)
T-8. Dak Prescott (Cowboys): $40 million (4-year, $160 million contract)
T-8. Matt Stafford (Rams): $40 million (4-year $160 million contract)
T-10. Kirk Cousins (Vikings): $35 million (1-year $35 million contract)
11. Jared Goff (Lions): $33.5 million (4-year $134 million contract)
12. Carson Wentz (Commanders): $32 million ($4-year 128 million contract)
13. Matt Ryan (Colts): $30 million (5-year $150 million contract)
14. Ryan Tannehill (Titans): $29.5 million (4-year $118 million contract)
15. Jimmy Garoppolo (49ers): $27.5 million (5-year $137.5 million contract)
16. Tom Brady (Buccaneers): $25 million (1-year contract)
17. Jameis Winston (Saints): $14 million (2-year $28 million contract)
18. Marcus Mariota (Falcons): $9.375 million (2-year $18.75 million contract)
19. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars): $9.19 million (4-year $36.79 million contract)
20. Joe Burrow (Bengals): $9.04 million (4-year $36.19 million contract)

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/nfl-highest-paid-quarterbacks-2022-aaron-rodgers-kyler-murray

 

[Teddy KGB]

13 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

He's still going to get paid because he is still in the 1st half of starting QBs in the league-that's what slightly above average says & you're right about that.  Look at the salaries some QBs are getting.  The top 3 are not getting the job done. Rodgers is getting money based on last year & beyond, Wilson may be on the decline, but had leverage because of the trade, Murray is getting big money in spite of mediocre production, because just like Lamar Jackson in Baltimore the team really has no alternative but to pay him.  Look at the rest of the guys in the 30-40 million range just below Josh, I wouldn't want to be paying any of those guys big bucks, but that's the current rate for slightly above average & the price is only going up each year.

Here are the salary rankings for the top-20 quarterbacks based on average annual value, per Over The Cap.

1. Aaron Rodgers (Packers): $50.3 million (3-year, $150.8 million contract)
2. Russell Wilson (Broncos): $49 million (5-year, $245 million contract)
3. Kyler Murray (Cardinals): $46.1 million (5-year, $230.5 million contract)
4. Deshaun Watson (Browns): $46 million (5-year $230 million contract)
5. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs): $45 million (10-year $450 million contract)
6. Josh Allen (Bills): $43 million (6-year $258 million contract)
7. Derek Carr (Raiders): $40.47 million (3-year, $121.4 million contract)
T-8. Dak Prescott (Cowboys): $40 million (4-year, $160 million contract)
T-8. Matt Stafford (Rams): $40 million (4-year $160 million contract)
T-10. Kirk Cousins (Vikings): $35 million (1-year $35 million contract)
11. Jared Goff (Lions): $33.5 million (4-year $134 million contract)
12. Carson Wentz (Commanders): $32 million ($4-year 128 million contract)
13. Matt Ryan (Colts): $30 million (5-year $150 million contract)
14. Ryan Tannehill (Titans): $29.5 million (4-year $118 million contract)
15. Jimmy Garoppolo (49ers): $27.5 million (5-year $137.5 million contract)
16. Tom Brady (Buccaneers): $25 million (1-year contract)
17. Jameis Winston (Saints): $14 million (2-year $28 million contract)
18. Marcus Mariota (Falcons): $9.375 million (2-year $18.75 million contract)
19. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars): $9.19 million (4-year $36.79 million contract)
20. Joe Burrow (Bengals): $9.04 million (4-year $36.19 million contract)

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/nfl-highest-paid-quarterbacks-2022-aaron-rodgers-kyler-murray

 

More INT’s than TD’s in the postseason. 
 

Spend that money elsewhere.  
 

 

[BritBill]

34 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

He's still going to get paid because he is still in the 1st half of starting QBs in the league-that's what slightly above average says & you're right about that.  Look at the salaries some QBs are getting.  The top 3 are not getting the job done. Rodgers is getting money based on last year & beyond, Wilson may be on the decline, but had leverage because of the trade, Murray is getting big money in spite of mediocre production, because just like Lamar Jackson in Baltimore the team really has no alternative but to pay him.  Look at the rest of the guys in the 30-40 million range just below Josh, I wouldn't want to be paying any of those guys big bucks, but that's the current rate for slightly above average & the price is only going up each year.

Here are the salary rankings for the top-20 quarterbacks based on average annual value, per Over The Cap.

1. Aaron Rodgers (Packers): $50.3 million (3-year, $150.8 million contract)
2. Russell Wilson (Broncos): $49 million (5-year, $245 million contract)
3. Kyler Murray (Cardinals): $46.1 million (5-year, $230.5 million contract)
4. Deshaun Watson (Browns): $46 million (5-year $230 million contract)
5. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs): $45 million (10-year $450 million contract)
6. Josh Allen (Bills): $43 million (6-year $258 million contract)
7. Derek Carr (Raiders): $40.47 million (3-year, $121.4 million contract)
T-8. Dak Prescott (Cowboys): $40 million (4-year, $160 million contract)
T-8. Matt Stafford (Rams): $40 million (4-year $160 million contract)
T-10. Kirk Cousins (Vikings): $35 million (1-year $35 million contract)
11. Jared Goff (Lions): $33.5 million (4-year $134 million contract)
12. Carson Wentz (Commanders): $32 million ($4-year 128 million contract)
13. Matt Ryan (Colts): $30 million (5-year $150 million contract)
14. Ryan Tannehill (Titans): $29.5 million (4-year $118 million contract)
15. Jimmy Garoppolo (49ers): $27.5 million (5-year $137.5 million contract)
16. Tom Brady (Buccaneers): $25 million (1-year contract)
17. Jameis Winston (Saints): $14 million (2-year $28 million contract)
18. Marcus Mariota (Falcons): $9.375 million (2-year $18.75 million contract)
19. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars): $9.19 million (4-year $36.79 million contract)
20. Joe Burrow (Bengals): $9.04 million (4-year $36.19 million contract)

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/nfl-highest-paid-quarterbacks-2022-aaron-rodgers-kyler-murray

 

 

Cardinals paying Murray $3.1m a year more than what Bills are Allen. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

I’d say he’s losing the bet on himself as of this moment 

[wjag]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’d say he’s losing the bet on himself as of this moment 

 

He's lost two late games for them on risky throws.  It certainly is a Baltimore conundrum to pay or not to pay.

[f0neguy]

Hypothetically,  if Baltimore decides to move on from Lamar, what might the return be?  And who could possibly pay it?

[RoyBatty is alive]

41 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

He's still going to get paid because he is still in the 1st half of starting QBs in the league-that's what slightly above average says & you're right about that.  Look at the salaries some QBs are getting.  The top 3 are not getting the job done. Rodgers is getting money based on last year & beyond, Wilson may be on the decline, but had leverage because of the trade, Murray is getting big money in spite of mediocre production, because just like Lamar Jackson in Baltimore the team really has no alternative but to pay him.  Look at the rest of the guys in the 30-40 million range just below Josh, I wouldn't want to be paying any of those guys big bucks, but that's the current rate for slightly above average & the price is only going up each year.

Here are the salary rankings for the top-20 quarterbacks based on average annual value, per Over The Cap.

1. Aaron Rodgers (Packers): $50.3 million (3-year, $150.8 million contract)
2. Russell Wilson (Broncos): $49 million (5-year, $245 million contract)
3. Kyler Murray (Cardinals): $46.1 million (5-year, $230.5 million contract)
4. Deshaun Watson (Browns): $46 million (5-year $230 million contract)
5. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs): $45 million (10-year $450 million contract)
6. Josh Allen (Bills): $43 million (6-year $258 million contract)
7. Derek Carr (Raiders): $40.47 million (3-year, $121.4 million contract)
T-8. Dak Prescott (Cowboys): $40 million (4-year, $160 million contract)
T-8. Matt Stafford (Rams): $40 million (4-year $160 million contract)
T-10. Kirk Cousins (Vikings): $35 million (1-year $35 million contract)
11. Jared Goff (Lions): $33.5 million (4-year $134 million contract)
12. Carson Wentz (Commanders): $32 million ($4-year 128 million contract)
13. Matt Ryan (Colts): $30 million (5-year $150 million contract)
14. Ryan Tannehill (Titans): $29.5 million (4-year $118 million contract)
15. Jimmy Garoppolo (49ers): $27.5 million (5-year $137.5 million contract)
16. Tom Brady (Buccaneers): $25 million (1-year contract)
17. Jameis Winston (Saints): $14 million (2-year $28 million contract)
18. Marcus Mariota (Falcons): $9.375 million (2-year $18.75 million contract)
19. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars): $9.19 million (4-year $36.79 million contract)
20. Joe Burrow (Bengals): $9.04 million (4-year $36.19 million contract)

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/nfl-highest-paid-quarterbacks-2022-aaron-rodgers-kyler-murray

 

Interesting.

 

Of the top 7 contracts, to me they all look very bad now except Mahomes and Allen.  The rest of the entire list most look ok, the one that looks the best are the rookie contracts for Lawrence and Burrow.  Stafford already paid for himself with a Super Bowl, Prescott and Cousins are ok, the rest are not good imo.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Cray51 said:

Lamar is a great QB.  If Allen and Mahomes are 10/10, Lamar is an 8.5.

I don’t know why everyone loves to trash Lamar. He is a different type of qb for sure but besides Andrews, they are exactly loaded with offensive talent. It blows my mind they have never tried a Diggs type move to get him a true 1. And on top of things, their D sucks this year. 

[Rc2catch]

My nephew is a Panthers fan so we chat this stuff a bunch. 
He posted his top 5 coaching candidates he wanted them to hire and I floated the idea of them hiring Greg Roman and possibly luring Lamar with him for a couple 1st rounders. 
I think they could have great success in the NFC especially that division. 
For as much as he runs he’s been pretty durable. I think we have seen his peak rushing but there has been improvement in his passing ability. He’s had a rough couple weeks since Bateman went down. I would expect even Allen would have some struggles if his only two weapons were Devin Duvernay and mark andrews. Baltimore has done him no favors in that regard. I still hold Lamar in the top 5-10 range of quarterbacks. We’re seeing a lot of guys start to come back to earth who were expected to take that elite step this year. 
He’s not the only guy with question marks who is gonna want that fully guaranteed money coming up. 

[colin]

to me, lemar can do some things no one else can do (allen can do many things no one else can do) but cannot do all things you might want him to do (he's ok in the pocket, awesome when scrambling in the pocket, but not good rolling out when it comes to passing, for example) and in that o at least he's really not made huge strides getting wrs involved. 

 

based on who doesn't have a qb but who might have other talent, i think he's worth liek 40mm a year +/-.  id presume plus because it always seems to be a ratchet upwards.

 

for example, i don't think dabol would do it, but lamar on the gmen w the rest of the team just as it is now is a problem.  the biggest issue to me w lamar is really also a gregg roman issue, his o needs like 3 really good physical RBs, mainly because you know they will go down from time to time.  if you put the old ravens RB Jamal Lewis on Lamar's team, you have an all speed quick/power combo lined up but the RPO can also be a trick or a throw.  it's NFL blitz type stuff in real life.  barclay on a team w lamar could potentially be video games in real life too.

[Captain Hindsight]

2 hours ago, f0neguy said:

Hypothetically,  if Baltimore decides to move on from Lamar, what might the return be?  And who could possibly pay it?

Watson was traded for 3 1sts, a 3rd and a 2 4ths, so Lamar would probably get that as well.

 

He is limited as a passer, but has lots of success in this league 

[RocCityRoller]

14 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

He didn't deserve. Ravens had the #1 seed. Lamar ran for like 1,200 yards and 30 passing TD's. I'd have to go back and see what other numbers QB's were putting up that year. Who deserved it that year over Jackson?

One could argue McCaffrey who had 1387 yards rushing (4.8 avg), 15 rushing TDs AND 1005 yards receiving (8.7 avg) and 4 TDs receiving

 

How many times has 1000 rush and 1000 receiving yards happened in a season? 19 TDs is pretty strong too. Only 1 fumble.

[Bills2022]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t know why everyone loves to trash Lamar. He is a different type of qb for sure but besides Andrews, they are exactly loaded with offensive talent. It blows my mind they have never tried a Diggs type move to get him a true 1. And on top of things, their D sucks this year. 

 

People don't trash Lamar, they just laugh when people put him in the elite category with Mahomes and Allen because he won an MVP.  You don't need to be an NFL scout to see Lamar is a 2nd tier quarterback who has passing limitations that are masked by his ability to run.  He should be paid, but teams realize he is not going to win a Super Bowl because the AFC playoffs are going to be loaded with real passers like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Burrow. You can't win playoffs games with the type of QB like Lamar.  The defenses get too fast.  You have to be able to really throw the ball.  

 

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t know why everyone loves to trash Lamar. He is a different type of qb for sure but besides Andrews, they are exactly loaded with offensive talent. It blows my mind they have never tried a Diggs type move to get him a true 1. And on top of things, their D sucks this year. 

But they have tried to give him a #1...they have used multiple first round picks on guys (to go along with multiple draft picks in other rounds as well), they have traded for guys, they have signed guys, none of them have worked.  They have tried to get him a #1, but because none have worked people keep saying "yeah but they haven't given him a true #1" which is a false statement

 

I like Lamar, he can do things with his legs most/all other quarterbacks can't do - but he does have his limitations as a thrower

[Since1981]

11 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

why everyone loves to trash Lamar

Lamar wants #1 QB pay. Ravens want to pay him #2-#5

Lamar is one ugly play from $0. Ravens do have a top 5-10 ranked QB, today, 2022.

Maybe if Lamar had an agent, he'd be further along (after all, that is why they get paid)

[Saint Doug]

3 hours ago, f0neguy said:

Hypothetically,  if Baltimore decides to move on from Lamar, what might the return be?  And who could possibly pay it?

I was going to say that the time has passed to sell him high. However, we’ve seen some teams do some crazy/dumb things when it comes to QBs. Some will think “it’ll be different” on their team and maybe so. My guess is he gets something along the lines the Texans got for Watson and that was a crazy haul. 

[Don Otreply]

This should surprise no one

On 9/9/2022 at 11:09 AM, Boyst62 said:

If I'm him I go in to FA and look to head to Houston, Seattle, anywhere else.

Why? Nothing is going to change career wise, also having no agent is not something teams look forward to dealing with, Especially with their starting QB, when they have to revamp the offense to the only style that will work for him, the book is out on Lamar, 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Don Otreply

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

One could argue McCaffrey who had 1387 yards rushing (4.8 avg), 15 rushing TDs AND 1005 yards receiving (8.7 avg) and 4 TDs receiving

 

How many times has 1000 rush and 1000 receiving yards happened in a season? 19 TDs is pretty strong too. Only 1 fumble.

For a 5 win football team?

[RocCityRoller]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

For a 5 win football team?

Take McCaffrey off of that team and they might have won 0 games.

 

Might be the reason why OJ went nuts! 🤣

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Ya Digg? said:

But they have tried to give him a #1...they have used multiple first round picks on guys (to go along with multiple draft picks in other rounds as well), they have traded for guys, they have signed guys, none of them have worked.  They have tried to get him a #1, but because none have worked people keep saying "yeah but they haven't given him a true #1" which is a false statement

 

I like Lamar, he can do things with his legs most/all other quarterbacks can't do - but he does have his limitations as a thrower

Hollywood brown is not a number 1 receiver. The cards tried that and he already broke down. They have a bunch of 2s and 3s at best. 
 

the best thing the Bills did with Allen was build the team (defense carried us early with Allen), then built up the offense. And they got Diggs who deserves a huge credit for evaluating Allen. Jackson won’t probably get to Allen’s level as a passer but besides Andrews, it is a bottom 5 receiving core.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

This should surprise no one

Why? Nothing is going to change career wise, also having no agent is not something teams look forward to dealing with, Especially with their starting QB, when they have to revamp the offense to the only style that will work for him, the book is out on Lamar, 

Because Lamar can walk on to any football field and be one of the best 5 players on the field. This instantly raises the chances to win on a lousy team. This is what a downtrodden football team does for a few seasons to raise their identity, to get off their rail and try something new. 

 

Lamar doesn't deserve that contract with the Ravens. He needs to go somewhere else. And for his benefit it'd be nice if he just took time to develop into the QB he can be and not just be a football player. 

[Cray51]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t know why everyone loves to trash Lamar. He is a different type of qb for sure but besides Andrews, they are exactly loaded with offensive talent. It blows my mind they have never tried a Diggs type move to get him a true 1. And on top of things, their D sucks this year. 

They would certainly benefit from a top end WR.  Crazy they didn’t go after Hill, who would help Lamar with outlets whenever he would scramble around to buy time.

 

Lamar is a top 8 QB in the league.  Allen and Mahomes are 1-2, but most teams in the league would LOVE to have Lamar running their offense

[mrags]

I’m gonna guess Lamar continues to struggle similar to the first quarter of the season. He will not get an offer even remotely close to what he wants. He will be tagged and traded. Here’s a list of teams I think in play for him

 

Miami

Washington

Seattle

Houston

Carolina

Giants

Tampa (Tom finally retires)

New Orleans

 

of the 8, I only see about half with real potential to take him, but the contract issue may pull into the discussion where teams that want him can’t afford him and teams on the fence have a ton of cap space 

 

[947]

5 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

They would certainly benefit from a top end WR.  Crazy they didn’t go after Hill, who would help Lamar with outlets whenever he would scramble around to buy time.

 

Lamar is a top 8 QB in the league.  Allen and Mahomes are 1-2, but most teams in the league would LOVE to have Lamar running their offense

No top-end WR would agree to go Baltimore with Lamar Jackson as the QB.

 

Guys like Tyreek Hill or Davante Adams who are getting 150+ targets from the best passers in the NFL are not going to a team where they'll now get 50 less targets and less quality targets at that. WRs get contracts based on their production, a guy with the type of production even an elite WR would have in the Ravens' offense is getting 2nd or 3rd tier money.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t know why everyone loves to trash Lamar. He is a different type of qb for sure but besides Andrews, they are exactly loaded with offensive talent. It blows my mind they have never tried a Diggs type move to get him a true 1. And on top of things, their D sucks this year. 

 

Andrews is their Diggs.  They have had good receivers there.  He just doesnt throw to them.  Guy is 5 years in.  The excuses are old.

[Bills2022]

2 hours ago, Since1981 said:

Lamar wants #1 QB pay. Ravens want to pay him #2-#5

Lamar is one ugly play from $0. Ravens do have a top 5-10 ranked QB, today, 2022.

Maybe if Lamar had an agent, he'd be further along (after all, that is why they get paid)

 

Amen. Get an agent Lamar.    He is 1-3 in the playoffs and at times looks terrible.  Nobody is ever go to really consider him the #1 QB in the league. He isn't even top 5.  The Ravens offer was a really good offer for a guy with his record in the playoffs. 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Bills2022

[Ya Digg?]

46 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Hollywood brown is not a number 1 receiver. The cards tried that and he already broke down. They have a bunch of 2s and 3s at best. 
 

the best thing the Bills did with Allen was build the team (defense carried us early with Allen), then built up the offense. And they got Diggs who deserves a huge credit for evaluating Allen. Jackson won’t probably get to Allen’s level as a passer but besides Andrews, it is a bottom 5 receiving core.

The results are different than the effort. You are saying you are surprised they haven’t tried to get him a #1 and that’s not true. They have tried-they didn’t draft Brown in the first round to not be their top guy (the same applies to Bateman) it just didn’t  work out. I agree that Brown isn’t a #1 but they thought he would be. I don’t think Bateman is a #1 but my guess is they think he will be/is. They have tried to trade for guys, they try to get too guys in free agency, but Lamar doesn’t have the ability to raise the ply of those guys to the top of the league 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Hollywood brown is not a number 1 receiver. The cards tried that and he already broke down. They have a bunch of 2s and 3s at best. 
 

the best thing the Bills did with Allen was build the team (defense carried us early with Allen), then built up the offense. And they got Diggs who deserves a huge credit for evaluating Allen. Jackson won’t probably get to Allen’s level as a passer but besides Andrews, it is a bottom 5 receiving core.

 

Brown is not Diggs no.  He isnt the best of the best.  Acting like they havent had any receivers though is wrong.  He just doesnt throw to them.  They get open just fine.  Brown has 100 less yards in just 6 games this season as he had in 14 games last season.  Murray isnt exactly an elite passer either yet he was on pace to more than double his yards with a different QB than Lamar.  Time for the excuses to end.  Lamar is a great athlete.  What he is not is an elite passer.  I dont care who you put on that team.  Lamar still has to throw to them.  Something he isnt good at.

 

Even Sammy Watkins had his worst career year there.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Scott7975

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Brown is not Diggs no.  He isnt the best of the best.  Acting like they havent had any receivers though is wrong.  He just doesnt throw to them.  They get open just fine.  Brown has 100 less yards in just 6 games this season as he had in 14 games last season.  Murray isnt exactly an elite passer either yet he was on pace to more than double his yards with a different QB than Lamar.  Time for the excuses to end.  Lamar is a great athlete.  What he is not is an elite passer.  I dont care who you put on that team.  Lamar still has to throw to them.  Something he isnt good at.

 

Even Sammy Watkins had his worst career year there.

But that’s kinda the pint. Diggs is much, much, much better than any receiver than Lamar has played with. Do you think Allen has the same jump with Hollywood instead of Diggs? I doubt it. Also, Brown just had a 1,000 yard season with Lamar and ypc in Arizona is basically the same. And come on with Sammy. Dude has been washed for years. 
 

will Lamar ever been an elite passer? No. But it is a bottom 5 group, their oline is a mess, and their rbs can’t stay healthy. Lamar is the least of their problems right now. 

[947]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But that’s kinda the pint. Diggs is much, much, much better than any receiver than Lamar has played with. Do you think Allen has the same jump with Hollywood instead of Diggs? I doubt it. Also, Brown just had a 1,000 yard season with Lamar and ypc in Arizona is basically the same. And come on with Sammy. Dude has been washed for years. 
 

will Lamar ever been an elite passer? No. But it is a bottom 5 group, their oline is a mess, and their rbs can’t stay healthy. Lamar is the least of their problems right now. 

If the Vikings had traded Diggs to Baltimore instead of Buffalo, his annual stat line would be something like 80 catches for 1,020 yards & 5-6 TDs. Then people would say that Diggs isn't a WR1 & that "the Ravens need to get Lamar a true WR1". Even a prime Jerry Rice wouldn't be considered an elite WR in the Ravens offense with Lamar, the target volume & passing ability are not sufficient for anybody to put up true WR1 numbers there.

[Malazan]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But that’s kinda the pint. Diggs is much, much, much better than any receiver than Lamar has played with. Do you think Allen has the same jump with Hollywood instead of Diggs? I doubt it. Also, Brown just had a 1,000 yard season with Lamar and ypc in Arizona is basically the same. And come on with Sammy. Dude has been washed for years. 
 

will Lamar ever been an elite passer? No. But it is a bottom 5 group, their oline is a mess, and their rbs can’t stay healthy. Lamar is the least of their problems right now. 

 

..while I agree with you.. there is an element of chicken and egg here.. Lamar is not a proficient passer in the way that Mahomes/Allen are so WR who get to the areas (intermediate outside the lines) that Mahomes/Allen are so the WRs that do that are not as valuable to him. Certainly, obviously they would be helpful, but Lamar would benefit from guys like Waddle/Hill. Guys who can take a short pass and run or can create separation on deep balls. I wouldn't want Lamar throwing a bunch of contested, intermediate throws like the ones that Josh does even if he had a Diggs. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Malazan