Reported Bills UDFA signing - 11 signed, 3 Camp Invites *Updated* 09:32 (4 open spots)

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ha.  Well, to continue your analogy - every prospectus has some small print saying "past performance does not guarantee future results".   Of course it doesn't, but nonetheless, investors use past results of various kinds to predict what the future performance of that investment may be.

 

So what are the Bills past investment results on the OL under Beane?

2018: horrible.  Beane said after the season, he was cap limited but he could have done more, he should have done more

2019: significant improvement under Bobby Johnson.  our run game improved and Josh had more time to throw, most games.  but we improved from a low bar to a meh bar IMHO.  Traded Wyatt Teller just before the season.

2020: stronger pass pro with Darryl Williams solidifying the RT position, but Trouble in the Run Game teepee with zone blocking

2021: run game follies continued.  we re-instituted more gap and pin and pull plays in the run game.  Bobby Johnson left after the season.  FA additions such as Forrest Lamp and Jamil Douglas did not prove out.  Extensive OL remodeling during the season to attempt to find a lineup that worked.

 

Bottom line, over the last 4 years IMO the management, the talent acquisition, and the results on OL have all been suspect.  So while you may be right that the Bills believe in the "horses they have", past performance leads one to question the basis for that believe and its soundness

The only time I felt encouraged by our run game during the entire JA era would be the final 4 games last season when we finally returned to "pulling guards".

    I think the ability of Cook to receive will open up our run game somewhat, but you're right in saying our OL still needs improvement. Hopefully Kromer can get some continuity going.

[Punching Bag]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:03 PM, Rochesterfan said:

 

I think they offered him 17 - not sure that is in use - Right?

 

 

Bills could make a fortune cutting up all the remaining #17 jerseys into patches sold with signed Josh Allen trading cards,

The question is does Josh want to change jersey numbers and if so who will have to change jersey numbers (or be fired) for big man in stadium?

[Putin]

9 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

 

Re-signing Darryl Williams to something close to a vet minimum contract is also a possibility.

How is it no team has signed him yet ? He’s a better guard or a RT then anything on Miami’s OL 

[Mr. Wonderful]

On 4/30/2022 at 6:00 PM, RobbRiddick said:

Who will be the guy we all obsess over being an absolute 100% pro bowler in the rough* this year???

 

 

(*only to see him gone at first cut down)

 

Yes, the Da'Rick Rogers Award!

[Mopreme]

Justyn Ross signed by Chiefs.  Go figure. 

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, Putin said:

How is it no team has signed him yet ? He’s a better guard or a RT then anything on Miami’s OL 

 

Comp pick formula.  It ends today.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, dneveu said:

Quessenberry helps a lot. 

 

Can you (or anyone else) help me understand the Quessenberry love?

 

Thanks

[Warcodered]

57 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Actually lived in the town for Northwest Missouri State for like 6 years growing up, didn't really follow the team, though I knew they were good. So looked it up and odd bit of symmetry they lost their division's championship game 4 years in a row, got it the 5th time though.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

9.9 RAS Northern Iowa and 9.9 RAS Northwest Missouri State?

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 4/30/2022 at 5:00 PM, RobbRiddick said:

Who will be the guy we all obsess over being an absolute 100% pro bowler in the rough* this year???

 

 

(*only to see him gone at first cut down)

 

I hope he's not gone at the first cut down, but Tanner Owen's gonna get my vote!

 

3 hours ago, Putin said:

How is it no team has signed him yet ? He’s a better guard or a RT then anything on Miami’s OL 

 

My guess is that Williams wants to wait until this week and see if someone will give him a better-than-vet-minimum longer-than-1 yr deal

[Turk71]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you (or anyone else) help me understand the Quessenberry love?

 

Thanks

He allowed the most sacks in the league last year(11), so he's got that going for him.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you (or anyone else) help me understand the Quessenberry love?

 

Thanks

 

He started the entire season for the Titans last year. Appeared in 29 games over the past two seasons. You can do a lot worse than a full years starter from the season before as a backup. What are you expecting from a Reserve? Another Pro Bowler? How can he be a worse option than what Tommy Doyle or Jon Feliciano provided us in the same role the year before?

 

Kromer is reportedly very particular about the type of guys he likes. So he must see something in his game that he likes, feels he can fix, and/or works within the schemes he's planning.

 

Again, you don't have to like him. But he is who Kromer and Beane chose amongst all other options available to them in Free Agency at this point. And looking over the list of who's available at this point, I don't see much that would be much of an upgrade over what we have and have brought in. Beane's not sitting there going "Hapless Bills Fan didn't like this signing, so I better go out and get another one".

 

It's not love so much as an understanding that he is who was brought in for the role. We lost Daryl Williams, Jon Feliciano, and Coach Bobby Johnson. We brought in Rodger Saffold (upgrade over Williams at G), David Quessenberry, Greg Mancz, Drafted Luke Tenuta, brought in 3 UDFA's, and Coach Bobby Kromer (upgrade). They've addressed the Line the way they thought best.

Edited May 3, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[Buffalo Barbarian]

20 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

The QB play in the Birmingham/New Orleans game Saturday was abysmal, so definitely not helping them.

 

Doesnt have to be QB , just players in general getting reps.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Buffalo Barbarian

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you (or anyone else) help me understand the Quessenberry love?

 

Thanks

 

I, for one, do not believe in miracle workers, but some people think that Kromer can squeeze something out of Ford, who sucks across-the-board. Following that logic, there is more hope for Quessenberry, who apparently sucks at pass protection but is pretty good at run blocking.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

This is more like a Beane OL prospect, a great athlete to be molded into a finished player, whereas I think Tenuta was more like a McD guy, you know, the father being a 30-year coach...

[BearNorth]

Pretty sure when "King Henry" ran for 75 against us in the Music City, that Quessenberry sealed the left [inside] edge and allowed Henry to break free.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

He started the entire season for the Titans last year. Appeared in 29 games over the past two seasons. You can do a lot worse than a full years starter from the season before as a backup. What are you expecting from a Reserve? Another Pro Bowler? How can he be a worse option than what Tommy Doyle or Jon Feliciano provided us in the same role the year before?

 

You're right that a backup with significant starting experience is a reasonable add.   But some posters have been talking as though he counts as a significant *improvement* to the OL this year, should he have to start either at swing tackle or at guard.

 

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Kromer is reportedly very particular about the type of guys he likes. So he must see something in his game that he likes, feels he can fix, and/or works within the schemes he's planning.

 

He's 31 and has been in the league since 2013.  Usually when a guy has been in the league that long, his technique is pretty well engrained in muscle memory and "he is who he is".  Occasionally a guy will improve.  Maybe that's more possible on OL than other positions, I dunno.

 

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Again, you don't have to like him. But he is who Kromer and Beane chose amongst all other options available to them in Free Agency at this point. And looking over the list of who's available at this point, I don't see much that would be much of an upgrade over what we have and have brought in. Beane's not sitting there going "Hapless Bills Fan didn't like this signing, so I better go out and get another one".

 

The question was "help me understand the Quessenberry love".  Instructing me that Beane isn't sitting there saying "Hapless Bills Fan didn't like this signing" doesn't address the question.  Strangely enough, I didn't believe that he was.

 

And my overarching question isn't "who's available at this point", it's "Did Beane do enough to improve our OL from something he referred to post-season as "a good starting point". 

 

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

It's not love so much as an understanding that he is who was brought in for the role. We lost Daryl Williams, Jon Feliciano, and Coach Bobby Johnson. We brought in Rodger Saffold (upgrade over Williams at G), David Quessenberry, Greg Mancz, Drafted Luke Tenuta, brought in 3 UDFA's, and Coach Bobby Kromer (upgrade). They've addressed the Line the way they thought best.

 

Clearly they addressed the line in the way they thought best at this point.  They addressed the line in the way they thought best prior to the 2018 season, leaving McDermott saying plaintively during the season "I thought at least we'd be able to run the ball" and Beane after the season saying "I could have done more" "I should have done more."

 

So the question some are asking (myself included) is: "does the way they addressed the line, actually count as an improvement?"  It's not "who is left at this point?" it's "were there better linemen they could have acquired earlier in FA or at a point where they were drafting?"

 

Saffold is an upgrade on Williams in the run game - when he's on the field.  Saffold may be a significant downgrade in the passing game, and we're a passing team.  Maybe that's something Kromer thinks he can fix, I dunno.   as has been noted elsewhere, Saffold missed 2 games and played less than 60% of the snaps in 2 others.  Overall he played 4 out of 5 snaps in the 15 games he played.  So who is the upgrade who will play 1 in 5 snaps?  Maybe our S&C staff will help him, or maybe his shoulders are suffering the ravages of 11 seasons and he is who he is right now.

 

Basically your answer to my question seems to be "there's no reason to believe Quessenberry is an improvement to the OL, especially for our Fastball, the passing game".  Quessenberry, Mancz, and Tenuta along with the UDFA are all "treading water", replacements for JAGs we cut (not lost - cut).

 

That's my answer.

 

54 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Pretty sure when "King Henry" ran for 75 against us in the Music City, that Quessenberry sealed the left [inside] edge and allowed Henry to break free.

 

 

I think he's potentially improvement in the run game.  But we're a passing team.

[Motorin']

5 hours ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

 

This is more like a Beane OL prospect, a great athlete to be molded into a finished player, whereas I think Tenuta was more like a McD guy, you know, the father being a 30-year coach...

 

Very similar to Ryan Bates RAS:

 

 

 

 

 

[Airseven]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you (or anyone else) help me understand the Quessenberry love?

 

Thanks

Mediocre player with starting experience who can play both T/G. Better depth than what the Bills had prior to signing him. You're welcome.

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

But he is who Kromer and Beane chose amongst all other options available to them in Free Agency at this point.

Not necessarily. Other options may have wanted too much money or simply didn't want to play in Buffalo. He was the best realistic choice available to them at an acceptable price point and willing to sign. 

[clayboy54]

More so than any other unit on a football team, OL is dependent on blocking scheme and how the five work together, passing off blocks, identifying rushers and picking up stunts. I'm not a Bobby Johnson fan and believe that his schemes played directly into the weaknesses of our linemen. Sure he changed it up at the end of 2021 and the line was all-around better.

 

This is the classic example of a coach thinking his scheme is more important than putting his players in the best position to succeed.

 

Kromer has proven here and elsewhere that he can get the most out of his OL by adjusting scheme to their strengths. If you, like I, believe that we have a handful of NFL-caliber OL players on the team then Kromer will get the most out of his men. He will find the best starting 5 and may surprise us with his selections. No matter, he will have the unit playing together with a common focus and playing to their strengths. You will see communication improve across the front and you will see less missed assignments.

 

Fans typically grade players on an individual basis. This is not the way to grade OL play, ever. A Pro Bowl guard as an example, might look like a chump on a line where guys don't understand and communicate their assignments. Guys like Morse, Saffold and Dawkins can be so helpful to Kromer in finding ways to put the best 5 on the field and using them to their strengths. This in-turn will build a bond to help the young guys like Brown and Bates think and move as a unit and not as individuals.

 

When a line thinks and moves together as a unit both before and after the snap, then the sum of the parts is much greater than the individuals.

 

We don't "need" better players. We need a more cohesive unit. I really believe that Kromer is the man who can make that happen. Bobby Johnson just destroyed any cohesiveness that our OL could have ever had by asking guys to dance to a different drummer than they were comfortable with. If Kromer need another piece, I have no doubt he will ask Beane to get it for him.

[hemma]

Dorsey looks to be putting a bit more emphasis on the short game.  

Last year Allen’s Time to throw was 2.9, on the high side of QBs.  Dorsey may be able to estimate that the changes will bring that # down

to 2.65 (or whatever).  

 

That might be enough wiggle room for Kromer to deal with Saffold/Quesenberry’s deficiencies.

 

Just balling spit.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

 

I, for one, do not believe in miracle workers, but some people think that Kromer can squeeze something out of Ford, who sucks across-the-board. Following that logic, there is more hope for Quessenberry, who apparently sucks at pass protection but is pretty good at run blocking.

 

Quessenberry has been in the league since 2013, when the Texans drafted him in the 6th round.

Ford is going into his 4th year.

 

Clearly Quessenberry must have talent, since he was brought back after his Lymphoma treatment "gap years" and two different teams have had him on the roster.  But I think there's some truth to the notion that it's harder to teach an older dog new tricks.

 

1 hour ago, hemma said:

Dorsey looks to be putting a bit more emphasis on the short game.  

Last year Allen’s Time to throw was 2.9, on the high side of QBs.  Dorsey may be able to estimate that the changes will bring that # down

to 2.65 (or whatever).  

 

That might be enough wiggle room for Kromer to deal with Saffold/Quesenberry’s deficiencies.

 

Just balling spit.

 

Perhaps.  There also seems to be an emphasis on run-blocking chops (Saffold, Quessenberry).  It may also be true that if teams feel we have an effective run threat not named Josh Allen, that will back them off a bit and make pass protection easier.

[TBBills]

15 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

We just picked up a guy who is as good as the Patriots first round pick...

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you (or anyone else) help me understand the Quessenberry love?

 

Thanks

 

He's a veteran who has played tackle in the NFL.  I cant imagine he's worse than bobby hart, and the other guy doyle is a complete unknown.

 

I'm not looking for all-pro backups, but I like options.  Guard i feel like we're running it back with Ford and Boettger.  Didn't really bring in much there.  

[RocCityRoller]

I like the Wydermyer pick up a lot.

 

Can see him making the 53

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[Doc]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

I like the Wydermyer pick up a lot.

 

Can see him making the 53

 

 

Send him to TEU!

[Simon Says]

Im wondering about a 4th QB

[TheyCallMeAndy]

10 minutes ago, Georgie said:

Im wondering about a 4th QB

Same, but they didn’t have one last year

[MrEpsYtown]

17 minutes ago, Georgie said:

Im wondering about a 4th QB

 

6 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Same, but they didn’t have one last year

I’m guessing the need one for rookie minicamp, but its usually some tryout guy. 

[CapeBreton]

26 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

I like the Wydermyer pick up a lot.

 

Can see him making the 53

 

Yeah this guy could make the team for sure, I feel like he unfairly fell in the rankings because of a horrendous forty time, over 5 seconds. But he looks pretty fast and athletic on tape and apparently was sick when he ran that time. 

[BearNorth]

19 minutes ago, Georgie said:

Im wondering about a 4th QB

Dorsey is 4 years (less one day) younger than Brady and won a national title at Miami, where he was 38-2 as the starter, suspect he still has enough skill to show the guys how it should be done.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

32 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I’m guessing the need one for rookie minicamp, but its usually some tryout guy. 

Good call!

 

Shoot I’ll do it…

[H2o]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

I like the Wydermyer pick up a lot.

 

Can see him making the 53

 

This guy could be our new Lee Smith. Even wears #85. 

[John from Riverside]

48 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Beane just can’t give up on a 2nd round pick, despite the guy getting worse every year. 

On a cost controlled contract

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

Yeah this guy could make the team for sure, I feel like he unfairly fell in the rankings because of a horrendous forty time, over 5 seconds. But he looks pretty fast and athletic on tape and apparently was sick when he ran that time. 

 

Prior to the combine, a lot of rankings were going back and forth between him and McBride as the #1 TE in the draft. 

[davefan66]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I’m guessing the need one for rookie minicamp, but its usually some tryout guy. 

They will need a guy for rookie camp.  Not going to have our top 3 QB’s throwing.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Can any of these guys make the practice squad atleast?

[billsfan1959]

7 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

More so than any other unit on a football team, OL is dependent on blocking scheme and how the five work together, passing off blocks, identifying rushers and picking up stunts. I'm not a Bobby Johnson fan and believe that his schemes played directly into the weaknesses of our linemen. Sure he changed it up at the end of 2021 and the line was all-around better.

 

This is the classic example of a coach thinking his scheme is more important than putting his players in the best position to succeed.

 

Kromer has proven here and elsewhere that he can get the most out of his OL by adjusting scheme to their strengths. If you, like I, believe that we have a handful of NFL-caliber OL players on the team then Kromer will get the most out of his men. He will find the best starting 5 and may surprise us with his selections. No matter, he will have the unit playing together with a common focus and playing to their strengths. You will see communication improve across the front and you will see less missed assignments.

 

Fans typically grade players on an individual basis. This is not the way to grade OL play, ever. A Pro Bowl guard as an example, might look like a chump on a line where guys don't understand and communicate their assignments. Guys like Morse, Saffold and Dawkins can be so helpful to Kromer in finding ways to put the best 5 on the field and using them to their strengths. This in-turn will build a bond to help the young guys like Brown and Bates think and move as a unit and not as individuals.

 

When a line thinks and moves together as a unit both before and after the snap, then the sum of the parts is much greater than the individuals.

 

We don't "need" better players. We need a more cohesive unit. I really believe that Kromer is the man who can make that happen. Bobby Johnson just destroyed any cohesiveness that our OL could have ever had by asking guys to dance to a different drummer than they were comfortable with. If Kromer need another piece, I have no doubt he will ask Beane to get it for him.

 

This is exactly where I am at. I was not a fan of Bobby Johnson and thought he was one of the weakest hires under McDermott. I think there will be a big difference in Oline play this year simply because of Kromer. While I am one who believes there should be more investment in the Oline, I also believe we currently have the players to be in the upper third of the NFL.  I am truly looking forward to seeing what Kromer does with this unit.