Deshaun Watson better than Allen?

[Warcodered]

6 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

What a *****in' joke.  Josh behind Watson because McChoke.  Is there any doubt that if we brought home the Lombardi like we should have, that the rest of the NFL would know what every Bills fan knows?  Namely that Josh Allen is the best PLAYER, let alone QB, in the NFL.  GTF outta here with this weak-ass *****

Considering at the rate Josh was going he might have dropped 10 more TDs in the process, so probably not.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Warcodered

[transplantbillsfan]

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

IMO I have less of an issue with Watson than I do with Herbert and Burrow. I'd put Watson above them two.  They may become very good, but so far haven't seen enough.

[Big Blitz]

One of these guys had the comforts of a dome and a game in Jacksonville every year - and walked in as a rookie with Nuke Hopkins on the team.

 

The other guy is a winner and his win/loss record and total yards blows the loser and sexual predator away.  

Edited April 12, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Patrick Duffy]

Right now I would go #1 and #2 with either QB going either way as Allen and Mahomes. Brady/Rodgers up there in age, so if could pick any QB right now I think the best young QB's has to be Allen/Mahomes as top 2.

 

Maybe Herbert being the closest but yet still so far away. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Is there some sort of large massage chain that could use a new spokesperson...Kraft is getting old.

 

A stroke of genius!

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, Success said:

Did anyone see that heated debate on First Take just now? They were debating if Allen is a top 5 QB in the league.  Keyshawn had him at #6 - behind Brady, Rogers, Herbert, Burrow & Watson.

 

I actually have issues w/ all of those names being ranked ahead of Allen.  I get the deference for Brady, but would anyone really want him over Allen RIGHT NOW?  Rogers I can understand more.  Herbert has done nothing in the league.  Burrow looks to be very good, but hasn't shown nearly the versatility & clutch play that Allen has (imo).

 

But Watson?

 

I don't really get it - not just Keyshawn's take, but a still fairly large group of pundits who can't seem to break away from what they thought of Allen in the draft, or his rookie season.  I get that it's not that important, and in general, prefer it when the Bills are disrespected, but it just seems like I'm living on a different planet than some of these guys.

 

EDIT:  he also had Mahomes ahead of Allen (which is one I completely get, though I think is closer than most)

 

Honestly, Watson is a top 5 QB himself.  People writing him off after a season off is puzzling to me, he is legit top 5 until he shows me something on the field that says he isn't the same guy.  Allen obviously is top 5 and a case can be made he is number 1.  Top 4 are without debate in no particular order Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers and Brady (assuming Brady keeps up the level of play he had last year again).  

 

As good as Allen is, there are just people who are not going to accept it until he has the resume which needs to include a SB win and probably an MVP...two things that both have a good chance of happening this season.

 

I have to say though, Burrow is a joke to list ahead of Allen.  Can you even make a case for Burrow being top in the 5 just the AFC even right now?  I mean in no particular order: In the AFC alone you have Allen, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson, Hebert, Lamar, Burrow, etc.  If I had to pick the best 5 in just the AFC, Burrow is 6th.  I would go Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Hebert, Wilson, then Burrow...but you can make a case for Lamar at 5 or 6 too.  There isn't anything Burrow is better at than Allen IMHO, and certainly not better than him overall.  Burrow is still getting better presumably, so he can close the gap, but today he is not on the same level as Allen.  

 

Allen throws lasers, dimes, etc.  Burrow throws a lot of prayer balls to elite receivers who make insane plays.  Allen makes throws Burrow will never be able to make, and Allen is a superior athlete and runner with superior escapability.  Again, not saying Burrow wont become a top 5 QB overall in the NFL, just saying he is arguably not even top 5 in the AFC today while Allen is easily one of the best overall in the game, and has a case for the best QB right now.  Just because the Bengals, as a TEAM, surprised and made the SB, Burrow is getting over exaggerated in terms of where he ranks against his peers.  

 

 

[Mister Defense]

I don't watch or hear what he says often, but the times I do it almost always seems Johnson says some stupid, illogical thing--like that.

 

Almost no GM would trade Allen for anyone right now. Period.

 

The only comparable player is Mahomes, in my view.

 

Brady is 44, and Rodgers is a head case, not a leader of men. And Watson, well, good luck with that, Cleveland, and all that guaranteed money...

 

 

[wjag]

If Watson gets to play this year, we shall see.  

 

They play H2H this year, potentially, so we will get a look at the D'Andre Hopkins-less Watson.

 

[DCbillsfan]

I think Allen is the best player in the NFL.

[Big Blitz]

If you're putting Mahomes bc of a Super Bowl win and the one Rodgers won 10 years ago, as reasons to put them ahead of Allen - please apply that logic to the pro ready Justin Herbert - who for 2 straight years has been on one of the most talented teams in the league and has yet to make the playoffs.

 

 

[Greg S]

2 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

I don't watch or hear what he says often, but the times I do it almost always seems Johnson says some stupid, illogical thing--like that.

 

Almost no GM would trade Allen for anyone right now. Period.

 

The only comparable player is Mahomes, in my view.

 

Brady is 44, and Rodgers is a head case, not a leader of men. And Watson, well, good luck with that, Cleveland, and all that guaranteed money...

 

 

 

Agree. Mahomes would be the only player that I might think about it but in the end I wouldn't trade Allen for anybody. 

[Beast]

When just one of those ***** QB's they listed ahead of Allen has a month like Allen did to end the season, they can then get back to me but I won't hold my breath waiting because none of them are capable of a stretch like that.

 

Allen is the very best the league has to offer at QB.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Beast

[mjt328]

10 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Brady is still playing at a high level and he is the GOAT. I would replace Watson with Brady. Deshaun hasn't played in a game in a long time either.

 

Screw Tom Brady.  That is all.

😁

 

Like I said, it's possible that Watson takes a step back after missing a season. 

But lots of guys miss entire seasons due to serious injuries, and still come back fine.

 

[Reks Ryan]

Not having Mahomes in the top 6 doesn't make sense to me. 

 

To the question of Allen vs Watson.   My biased opinion is to take Josh as the guy you want to lead your franchise and as the better QB.    I think you could make a case either way just as a football player.   The year off for Watson makes some forget his recent greatness.   He finished 2019 leading the playoff comeback against the Bills with some amazing clutch plays in 2nd half and OT and was up 24-0 on the Chiefs before the Texans imploded.     And then he put up MVP level stats on bad team in 2020.     Unnecessary to recap Allen's great play the last 2 years and 2021/22 playoffs for this audience. 

 

Both have Allen  and Watson played 4 years, with Allen playing 61 games to Watson's 54 games.   Watson only played 7 games his rookie year.   Comparing careers stats

-Total passing yards and passing  TDS are about the same: Watson  14,539 yds and 104 TDs, Allen 14,411 yds and 103 TDs

- Watsons has a truly impressive career Yds / attempt of 8.3 compared to 7.1 for Josh.  And his completion % is better too - 67.8 to Allen's 62.3%

- Allen has the advantage in rushing production 2,325 yards & 31 TDs to 1,677 and and 17TDs for Deshaun.  Both AVG 5.5 yards per carry

On the negative side. 

- Watson has been sacked many more times: sacked 174 for minus 1,050 yards.  Allen only 118 for minus 773.   

- Allen has been more turnover prone with 46 INTs and 21 fumbles compared to 36 INTS and 14 fumbles from Watson. 

 

 

 

 

1

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just a few months ago, Keshawn said Lamar was better than Allen, yet Lamar is not above him here.   

[PromoTheRobot]

53 minutes ago, Success said:

Did anyone see that heated debate on First Take just now? They were debating if Allen is a top 5 QB in the league.  Keyshawn had him behind Brady, Rogers, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert & Watson.

 

I actually have issues w/ all of those names being ranked ahead of Allen.  I get the deference for Brady, but would anyone really want him over Allen RIGHT NOW?  Rogers I can understand more.  Herbert has done nothing in the league.  Burrow looks to be very good, but hasn't shown nearly the versatility & clutch play that Allen has (imo).

 

But Watson?

 

I don't really get it - not just Keyshawn's take, but a still fairly large group of pundits who can't seem to break away from what they thought of Allen in the draft, or his rookie season.  I get that it's not that important, and in general, prefer it when the Bills are disrespected, but it just seems like I'm living on a different planet than some of these guys.

 

EDIT:  he also had Mahomes ahead of Allen (which is one I completely get, though I think is closer than most)

 

Sports talk shows have time to fill.

[I'm Spartacus]

Marcus Spears & Steven A looked at Keyshawn like he was nuts.

[The Wiz]

I just watched the video.  Stephen A. and Marcus both blasted him because of how he was cherry picking specific things about each player at a given time about what he likes about them and saying Allen isn't a top 5 QB right now, because Daboll isn't the OC anymore.

 

Was really an awful take and seems like he just doesn't like Allen.

[Shaw66]

19 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

IMO I have less of an issue with Watson than I do with Herbert and Burrow. I'd put Watson above them two.  They may become very good, but so far haven't seen enough.

This.  Watson is a great runner, better than Allen.  He has a great arm, close to Allen.   He's probably behind Allen in field generalship.   Herbert's close; Burrow is a Joe Montana type but can't match Allen and Watson physically, and he's probably behind Herbert, too. 

[billieve420]

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

I just watched the video.  Stephen A. and Marcus both blasted him because of how he was cherry picking specific things about each player at a given time about what he likes about them and saying Allen isn't a top 5 QB right now, because Daboll isn't the OC anymore.

 

Was really an awful take and seems like he just doesn't like Allen.

 

Think it is more about Keyshawn being a Bill's hater he normally always has something critical to say.

[Greg S]

10 minutes ago, Beast said:

When just one of those ***** QB's they listed ahead of Allen has a month like Allen did to end the season, they can then get back to me but I won't hold my breath waiting because none of them are capable of a stretch like that.

 

Allen is the very best the league has to offer at QB.

 

Last year Allen proved to be "money" in the playoffs and opened people's eyes around the country of just how good he really is. Allen will win a Super Bowl for the Bills provided they don't **** the bed again like 13 seconds. 

2 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

 

Think it is more about Keyshawn being a Bill's hater he normally always has something critical to say.

 

He was a Jet so I can understand the Bills hatred.

[MJS]

Keyshawn? Who the heck is that?

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

 

Think it is more about Keyshawn being a Bill's hater he normally always has something critical to say.

Could be the case.  But there are plenty of people like that in the media that still give an unbiased opinion.  Hell, even Nick Wright said he wouldn't talk bad about Allen/Bills anymore because of last years playoffs.

 

I know the one guy on the Pat Mcafee show is a big Pats fan and he talks trash but he still shows respect for what Allen/Bills are doing.

[LABILLBACKER]

Keyshawn has hated on Buffalo his whole career. Nothing to see here with this moron.

[Rockpile233]

Keyshaun said late in the season he would still take a healthy Lamar Jackson over Allen. He’s just an Allen hater.

[L Ron Burgundy]

After Allen's last postseason saying he's not top 5 is ludicrous.   That's all.

[BigAl2526]

Watson was better coming out of college than Josh Allen because Watson had the benefit of some of the best coaching in college football.  Of course, we all know about Josh's path to the NFL.  I think there are still a few idiots out there who can't get over Josh Allen's humble beginnings.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

This.  Watson is a great runner, better than Allen.  He has a great arm, close to Allen.   He's probably behind Allen in field generalship.   Herbert's close; Burrow is a Joe Montana type but can't match Allen and Watson physically, and he's probably behind Herbert, too. 

What makes you believe this?? I see nothing that makes one come to that conclusion. Looking back when Watson did take off with the ball and comparing to what we have seen Allen do running, there's absolutely nothing there to come to this conclusion. 

 

If anything Allen has all the "jaw dropping, amazing" plays making one question if he's human or not. I'm not saying Watson isn't a good runner, just have no idea where you believe he is better than Allen.

[billsrul120]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This.  Watson is a great runner, better than Allen.  He has a great arm, close to Allen.   He's probably behind Allen in field generalship.   Herbert's close; Burrow is a Joe Montana type but can't match Allen and Watson physically, and he's probably behind Herbert, too. 

Watson is not the better runner.  They are even or Allen is better.  I think people haven't looked at Watson's stats in a while.  He is not some generational player here. 

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, billsrul120 said:

Watson is not the better runner.  They are even or Allen is better.  I think people haven't looked at Watson's stats in a while.  He is not some generational player here. 

Agree. not sure about you but I don't recall Watson hurdling over defenders with ease or faking a defender so bad he nearly came out his shoes and fell down. Did that to a CB too if I'm not mistaken and CB's suppose to be pretty good on their feet. 

 

I don't recall Watson impressing anywhere near that extent 

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, billsrul120 said:

Watson is not the better runner.  They are even or Allen is better.  I think people haven't looked at Watson's stats in a while.  He is not some generational player here. 

Watson's narrative before the Bills playoff win was 1 and done in the playoffs and people not being sure if he could win the big games. After that his team collapsed and people were amazed how good his stats were playing on a terrible team.

[Nextmanup]

Watson gets no respect at this board; I think he's quite a good QB.

He's in no way better than Josh Allen though!  Nor is Burrow or Herbert, at least yet.

 

Brady has done enough to be ranked No. 1, almost as an honorary title, until he retires.

 

Rodgers is 2 (or vice versa).

But no, you wouldn't trade Allen for either of them NOW, when you consider the age differential!

 

 

[msw2112]

You could argue that Brady and/or Rodgers are "better" QBs than Allen, based on stats or wins.  That said, given their age, NO GM in the NFL would take either of them over Allen right now.   Mahomes and Herbert are in Allen's age bracket, both have great arms and are mobile, like Allen, so you could argue for one of them.  Mahomes has also made it to multiple SB's, winning one.   Watson is a really good player, but has lots of baggage (LOTS) and I don't think his talent is better than Allen, Mahomes, or Herbert, and he has not made it to any SBs.

[34-78-83]

Right now, Josh is the best player at the QB position in football when you add it all up (considering for age, experience, skill, athleticism just all the ways he is a threat).

I would guess that most GM's would agree with this.

 

Keyshawn is a nimrod.

Edited April 12, 2022 by 34-78-83

[BillsFan4]

I’m actually fine with media pundits still doubting Josh Allen. I think he uses it as motivation.

[Albany,n.y.]

Here's proof that Watson is not better than Josh.  Watson won 4 games as an established franchise QB in his 4th season & hasn't taken a snap since.  Can you imagine Josh playing a full season & the Bills winning 4 games?  Even when Josh was a raw rookie, with no O-line or WRs, in 11 starts the Bills won 5 games.  Josh is a winner & Watson is a loser.  

[Special K]

23 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

 

Think it is more about Keyshawn being a Bill's hater he normally always has something critical to say.

 

Exactly.....when he is on NFL Live with Marcus Spears and Orlavsky, it is completely unwatchable. 

 

I like Ike to call them “The Three Stooges”, then change the channel.

 

Its amazing these guys get paid for their trash takes.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

1 hour ago, Success said:

Did anyone see that heated debate on First Take just now? They were debating if Allen is a top 5 QB in the league.  Keyshawn had him behind Brady, Rogers, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert & Watson.

 

I actually have issues w/ all of those names being ranked ahead of Allen.  I get the deference for Brady, but would anyone really want him over Allen RIGHT NOW?  Rogers I can understand more.  Herbert has done nothing in the league.  Burrow looks to be very good, but hasn't shown nearly the versatility & clutch play that Allen has (imo).

 

But Watson?

 

I don't really get it - not just Keyshawn's take, but a still fairly large group of pundits who can't seem to break away from what they thought of Allen in the draft, or his rookie season.  I get that it's not that important, and in general, prefer it when the Bills are disrespected, but it just seems like I'm living on a different planet than some of these guys.

 

EDIT:  he also had Mahomes ahead of Allen (which is one I completely get, though I think is closer than most)

Here is your answer to who’s better?  Watson gets all his yardage in garbage time when he is losing a game also Watson has just 1 playoff win in his career and only reason for that was a Cody ford phantom call that the league admits it was a mistake.    Allen has to do it against the likes of Belicheat every year and also Allen has won more playoff games in his 5 year then Watson has in his whole career.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Watson gets no respect at this board; I think he's quite a good QB.

He's in no way better than Josh Allen though!  Nor is Burrow or Herbert, at least yet.

 

Brady has done enough to be ranked No. 1, almost as an honorary title, until he retires.

 

Rodgers is 2 (or vice versa).

But no, you wouldn't trade Allen for either of them NOW, when you consider the age differential!

 

 

 

That's what is being said, that Allen is better. Where do you get "Watson gets no respect"?