Tre’s recovery?

[BillsFanForever19]

21 minutes ago, billybrew1 said:

That sounds horrible! At the very least we have to start a rookie CB but I was hoping to get someone better than Dane Jackson…

We are in huge trouble at corner. Week one is going to be scary back there.

And then at guard it’s the same thing. Ford has showed us time and again he is pretty bad and that’s all we got at RG…

What do we do?

Go: CB, CB, OG, WR, OG, P, LB?

That’s asking a lot for a third rounder to start at RG. Maybe: CB, OL, CB, OL?

Then you’re probably starting a third rounder at CB….

Plus, I really wanted a WR by the 2nd round this year. I don’t think we can afford to do that with almost zero corners and RGs…

 

I'm not counting Ryan Bates leaving until we announce we aren't matching the Bears offer. If Bates comes back, I think our starting OL is set for this season and we're just looking for depth and development for next season. If we lose him, than our cap space goes from 2.98 to about 5.48 or so (as Bates tender has already been factored in).

 

With that little extra space, I think we can find either a mid tier starting Guard or a cheaper vet CB that can hopefully be at least average for us until Tre is ready. Though I'd imagine we could find a Guard easier.

 

A Gilmore, Bradberry type move isn't possible. Maybe Haden comes in for a few million, but even that is pushing it. But counting tea leaves, it's a Round 1 or 2 Draft Pick and Dane Jackson on the outside with Taron Johnson in the nickel, until Tre is ready.

 

I'm not in the camp that a Round 1 CB can't be solid right out of the gate. I think there's a good chance that they could provide a lot more than any veteran in our price range.

Edited March 25, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[clayboy54]

1 minute ago, billybrew1 said:

 

What makes you say that? The NFL has an established time of approximately one year recovery from a torn ACL….

And sometimes it’s longer or the player takes a long time to feel comfortable. Some even lose their extreme speed.

If Tre comes back in Late October and plays well that would be awesome…a great achievement by Tre…

I don’t know where you come up with an established time. No two injuries are alike and neither are players’ commitment to rehab work. We have all seen some guys come back at 6 months. We have also seen guys like Teddy Bridgewater take 2 years. Maybe what you’re referring to is an average time stat. That’s a tough comparison as 350 lb linemen clearly have different physical challenges than backs, corners or receivers. So, I am saying that averages cannot apply to a given individual. It is obvious to me that Tre is driven. He’s driven to be the best. He’s driven to work harder. He will be driven to be ready. This is what makes me say that.

[Rocky Landing]

15 minutes ago, billybrew1 said:

Why not because of Tre white? On schedule means next November….

It doesn't.

https://www.sportsmd.com/2021/09/01/recovery-time-for-acl-surgery-timeline-tips-and-faqs/

[BigAl2526]

I'm assuming Tre White will be fine.  The need for another quality cornerback has nothing to do with his health.  It is all about the Bills decision not to try and re-sign Levi Wallace.  Jackson is a good depth cornerback but he's not someone you depend on as a starter. 

[GolfandBills]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

It doesn't.

https://www.sportsmd.com/2021/09/01/recovery-time-for-acl-surgery-timeline-tips-and-faqs/

9 months is the absolute minimum you see guys coming back and they aren’t 100% at that time.  That puts Tre into week 1 of the season.  He’s going to miss some time for sure. 

[In Summary]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

9 months from the end of November would be end of August, not July

Jost a note that per SOP in athletic treatment these days, his surgery occurred 3 weeks later, Dec. 15 or 16. 

So add 3 weeks - mid-September earliest

It would much to assume that he'll start game 1, get full snaps, and run 17 games plus playoffs.

[TBBills]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I'm not counting Ryan Bates leaving until we announce we aren't matching the Bears offer. If Bates comes back, I think our starting OL is set for this season and we're just looking for depth and development for next season. If we lose him, than our cap space goes from 2.98 to about 5.48 or so (as Bates tender has already been factored in).

 

With that little extra space, I think we can find either a mid tier starting Guard or a cheaper vet CB that can hopefully be at least average for us until Tre is ready. Though I'd imagine we could find a Guard easier.

 

A Gilmore, Bradberry type move isn't possible. Maybe Haden comes in for a few million, but even that is pushing it. But counting tea leaves, it's a Round 1 or 2 Draft Pick and Dane Jackson on the outside with Taron Johnson in the nickel, until Tre is ready.

 

I'm not in the camp that a Round 1 CB can't be solid right out of the gate. I think there's a good chance that they could provide a lot more than any veteran in our price range.

I have a feeling they never intend to keep Bates unless the Bears offered peanuts.

[BillsFanForever19]

35 minutes ago, TBBills said:

I have a feeling they never intend to keep Bates unless the Bears offered peanuts.

 

This may be true. But you never know. Chicago's offer might not be that much more. And Beane's full of surprises. I agree, it's probably more likely we don't retain him. But I'm not counting that egg until it hatches.

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

9 months is the absolute minimum you see guys coming back and they aren’t 100% at that time.  That puts Tre into week 1 of the season.  He’s going to miss some time for sure. 

So...on what grounds do you disagree with this source? 

 

You posit such a concrete timeline, which does NOT align with the sourcehttps://www.sportsmd.com/2021/09/01/recovery-time-for-acl-surgery-timeline-tips-and-faqs/, so please help me understand why 9 months is more realistic that 6-8. Thank you.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Based on recent history he should be ready for camp and preseason but you never know. Sometimes players come back and favor the injured knee and suffer a different injury. 
 

I would bet on him being cleared by camp but we won’t know if he’s fully back until he gets some real football tests.

[GunnerBill]

I'd be surprised if Tre misses much of the season. 9 months for an elite athlete would be a slow rehab these days from an ACL (and his was described as a clean tear). I think the Bills will be cautious, that is their MO, but I don't see any scenario where Tre isn't on the field by week 5 at the absolute latest. He could very well play sooner than that. 

 

The need at corner is still there but I think some of the speculation Tre will miss half the season is way off base.

[BritBill]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I

 

The need at corner is still there but I think some of the speculation Tre will miss half the season is way off base.

 

If it was the case White is looking at missing half a season I think we'd have seen a move at CB in free agency before now. 

[Paul Costa]

I actually think the Bills are getting Bradberry from the Giants. NJG clearly want the cap space  and are in a rebuild. Bills are in a two year SB window. I have no idea what the compensation should or will be. May be a draft day trade where Bills give NJG pick #25 and Bills  get Bradberry and pick #36. Not suggesting that’s the proper compensation. I stated earlier I want Steve Nelson but I think Bills are holding out for bradberry. We will see a Diggs extension just before it gets done

[GolfandBills]

12 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

So...on what grounds do you disagree with this source? 

 

You posit such a concrete timeline, which does NOT align with the sourcehttps://www.sportsmd.com/2021/09/01/recovery-time-for-acl-surgery-timeline-tips-and-faqs/, so please help me understand why 9 months is more realistic that 6-8. Thank you.

https://orthonebraska.com/acl-recovery-time-and-nfl-athletes/
 

This is one of the articles i read.  You can also research NFL players that had ACL injuries and most are at the 9+ month range for full recovery.  
 

Obviously there are differing opinions on this from people so maybe you should just embrace differing opinions and take everything into consideration instead of being a douche with your snide comments?  Just a suggestion

Edited March 25, 2022 by GolfandBills

[Putin]

18 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I wonder if Tre is ahead of schedule on his ACL rehab.  That might explain not going after a CB in free agency.

Even if Tre is good to go week one we still need another stud on the opposite side 

[RocCityRoller]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't see any scenario where Tre isn't on the field by week 5 at the absolute latest. He could very well play sooner than that. 

 

The need at corner is still there but I think some of the speculation Tre will miss half the season is way off base.

 

Agree that September is tentative. Even if Tre is back in September, is he 'Tre White' immediately? Not sure who is saying half the year. I think October is reasonable to see the return of the Tre White we all love to root for. I do not want him to feel pressured to return too early. I do think we have seen NFL players (some on our own team) try to play through bad injuries or return faster than fully healed.

 

I appreciate @Richard Noggin putting forth a solid study. According to that 6 of 10 athletes return to pre-injury function and Tre's work ethic, access to Bills staff and facilities, and the nature of his injury should help him in those odds.

 

That said, Wallace is a loss, whether TSW was a big fan of him or not. Even with Wallace many wanted to see moves to upgrade CB the past 2 or so years. I am not comfortable potentially putting D Jackson and Cam Lewis on the boundaries in week 1-4 for a team with Super Bowl aspirations. I did like what I saw from Nick McCloud in last years pre-season, and Olaijah Griffin is in that mix too. If any position can be coached up by this team it is DB, but a lot of us would feel better with a steady vet addition. Seems odd none was added yet.

Edited March 25, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[GolfandBills]

7 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Agree that September is tentative. Even if Tre is back in September, is he 'Tre White' immediately? Not sure who is saying half the year. I think October is reasonable to see the return of the Tre White we all love to root for. I do not want him to feel pressured to return too early. I do think we have seen NFL players (some on our own team) try to play through bad injuries or return faster than fully healed.

 

I appreciate @Richard Noggin putting forth a solid study. According to that 6 of 10 athletes return to pre-injury function and Tre's work ethic, access to Bills staff and facilities, and the nature of his injury should help him in those odds.

 

That said, Wallace is a loss, whether TSW was a big fan of him or not. Even with Wallace many wanted to see moves to upgrade CB the past 2 or so years. I am not comfortable potentially putting D Jackson and Cam Lewis on the boundaries in week 1-4 for a team with Super Bowl aspirations. I did like what I saw from Nick McClow in last years pre-season, and Olaijah Griffin is in that mix too. If any position can be coached up by this team it is DB, but a lot of us would feel better with a steady vet addition. Seems odd none was added yet.

The link he posted showed zero studies to NFL athletes.  His article talks about going back to driving a car and sport never mentions NFL caliber athletes.  Yeah maybe Billy down the street can go back to school and play at recess in 6-8 months but the movement NFL cornerbacks have to rely on is totally different then little Billy’s recovery time.  You can easily find recovery times for other NFL players online and most of everything I’ve seen is 9 - 12 months before the player is back to around 100%.    There are some outliers that came back a little earlier and some that came back later and some never recovered to previous form.  I hope Tre is one the earlier outliers but I’m expecting he’ll miss some time in the regular season.  

Edited March 25, 2022 by GolfandBills

[BuffaloMatt]

Still need CBs - no depth

[ColoradoBills]

Didn't Beane mention Tre in his presser last week?  I thought I remember him saying he seen Tre working hard in the building

and he wouldn't be surprised to see him back a little ahead of schedule.

 

It is almost certain Tre starts training camp on the PUP list and hopefully comes off just prior to the start of the season.

I can't see them having Tre on the Reserve/PUP List to start the season.  He would have to wait like 7 games.

 

While we all are concerned about the CB situation I have faith that Beane and McDermott will have this worked out by camp.

[DJB]

Pretty sure he had it amputated at the neck 

[RocCityRoller]

2 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

The link he posted showed zero studies to NFL athletes.  His article talks about going back to driving a car and sport never mentions NFL caliber athletes.  Yeah maybe Billy down the street can go back to school and play at recess in 6-8 months but the movement NFL cornerbacks have to rely on is totally different then little Billy’s recovery time.  You can easily find recovery times for other NFL players online and most of everything I’ve seen is 9 - 12 months before the player is back to around 100%.  

 

I'm not sure where anything you posted disagrees with anything I posted.

 

I thought my position was well stated.

 

Directly from your source, which was focused on NFL players:

"Typically, athletes will be back to their prior level of function by 9 months after surgery.

Research has shown reinjury rates to be lower for athletes that returned to sport at 9 months or later."

 

I said he is tentative (meaning not guaranteed, or best case scenario) for September, and I do not want him to rush back.

From my post:

"Agree that September is tentative. Even if Tre is back in September, is he 'Tre White' immediately?"

 

Tre had surgery on Dec 14th.

December 14th to September 14th is 9 months, the time period the article you referenced points to success for NFL players.

Assuming most games are on Sunday, Sundays in September are 4/11/18/25

 

I noted Buffalo may not have Tre for games 1-4, which fits this time period.

From my post:

"I am not comfortable potentially putting D Jackson and Cam Lewis on the boundaries in week 1-4 for a team with Super Bowl aspirations."

 

Additionally, I said that Bills fans have been clamoring for a Wallace upgrade regardless. With Wallace gone this seems to be a glaring need.

From my post:

"That said, Wallace is a loss, whether TSW was a big fan of him or not. Even with Wallace many wanted to see moves to upgrade CB the past 2 or so years"

 

Buffalo should bring in a vet to help hold down the CB position to:

1) fill in for the 1-4 weeks Tre may not be ready

2) fill in the gap left by Wallace signing elsewhere and possibly improve the CB2 position when Tre returns.

 

I thought it was obvious that I am not happy with OBD and the CB situation, and that missing some or all of September is a real possibility for Tre White and his long term success as an NFL player.

 

Where are we disagreeing to the point you made your somewhat snarky last post?

 

Also where do you get 9-12 months? Even your own source does not claim that?

[Max Fischer]

It's March 25, there is plenty of time and quite a few possibilities out there. 

[MJS]

21 hours ago, whorlnut said:

My bad. Well that’s worst case. 6 is best case. More realistically thinking 7-8

9 months isn't worst case. That is faster than the average recovery of 10 months.

 

Fans need to just accept the fact that Tre White is going to miss some time.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

9 months isn't worst case. That is faster than the average recovery of 10 months.

 

Fans need to just accept the fact that Tre White is going to miss some time.

Yes, Tre will lose 3-4 games minimum. It would be utterly stupid to rush him back week 1, no matter how go he thinks he feels. Sign a 1 year vet like Haden and pray McDuffie falls. Cam, Siran and Dane can rotate in to secure things until Tre is more than 100%. A knee setback would be a disaster. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[whorlnut]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yes, Tre will lose 3-4 games minimum. It would be utterly stupid to rush him back week 1, no matter how go he thinks he feels. Sign a 1 year vet like Haden and pray McDuffie falls. Cam, Siran and Dane can rotate in to secure things until Tre is more than 100%. A knee setback would be a disaster. 

We don’t need a first round corner. We have waited for offense for years. Can’t keep doing it. We can get a good corner later in the draft. 

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

We don’t need a first round corner. We have waited for offense for years. Can’t keep doing it. We can get a good corner later in the draft. 

 

agreed, unless the CB is a stud and the round 1 WR’s are gone, depends how the board falls, but all things equal I’d go WR. 

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

agreed, unless the CB is a stud and the round 1 WR’s are gone, depends how the board falls, but all things equal I’d go WR. 

Yeah…I mean if there is a run on WRs and someone like Booth is there I guess it would be ok. But I’d hate to pass on a top wr for a corner and the wr goes to KC where he burns our corner for years. 

[Big Turk]

Any updates on White? We are about 5 months out from surgery right now, assuming he is back to doing most things while working out.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Any updates on White? We are about 5 months out from surgery right now, assuming he is back to doing most things while working out.

 

I'm sure there will be reports as to the level he participates in this off-season workout program starting Tuesday.  The 1st two weeks is just conditioning, so would think he should be able to do stretches, etc if any chance of him being ready by Sept/Oct.

 

 

On 3/25/2022 at 8:04 PM, whorlnut said:

Yeah…I mean if there is a run on WRs and someone like Booth is there I guess it would be ok. But I’d hate to pass on a top wr for a corner and the wr goes to KC where he burns our corner for years. 

 

Or the opposite could happen and the CB we draft shuts down the WR.  For the most part Hill was burning Wallace and Jackson, if you have White back even if it's2023 at 100% and a 1st round CB as the #2 CB, add in the two safetys we have and T Johnson and not sure how many WR will be beating the group.

 

If he's a top level CB, why do you expect him to be beat?

Edited April 18, 2022 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He got his surgery in December, so really about 4 months out.

 

He had surgery on December 15th which a little less than a week short of 5 months.

[whorlnut]

26 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I'm sure there will be reports as to the level he participates in this off-season workout program starting Tuesday.  The 1st two weeks is just conditioning, so would think he should be able to do stretches, etc if any chance of him being ready by Sept/Oct.

 

 

 

Or the opposite could happen and the CB we draft shuts down the WR.  For the most part Hill was burning Wallace and Jackson, if you have White back even if it's2023 at 100% and a 1st round CB as the #2 CB, add in the two safetys we have and T Johnson and not sure how many WR will be beating the group.

 

If he's a top level CB, why do you expect him to be beat?

Did you even bother to watch the super bowl?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Did you even bother to watch the super bowl?

 

Yes I did, so what's your point?

[aristocrat]

It’s been 123 days 

[Bob in Mich]

Even if Tre is held back in preseason and ready to go week 1 of the season, the knee will almost certainly get tweaked at some point, will swell, and will require some time off.  I have entirely too much experience with knee issues, including 3 acl tears.  No, not one in each leg, smart guy

 

What would it cost us to trade with a non playoff contender for a rental CB that we promise to trade back before October 15th?    Lol

[Doc]

It's been 17-1/2 weeks.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

Even if Tre is held back in preseason and ready to go week 1 of the season, the knee will almost certainly get tweaked at some point, will swell, and will require some time off.  I have entirely too much experience with knee issues, including 3 acl tears.  No, not one in each leg, smart guy

 

What would it cost us to trade with a non playoff contender for a rental CB that we promise to trade back before October 15th?    Lol

 

I don't think the staff will have him on the field until his knee is ready....which I think week 1 he will be 100% by the opener.  It'll be a solid 8 months since the surgery with the top medical/PT staffs.  I've known several people who have had ACL surgery and they're usually 100% without any setbacks between 6-8 months.

[Paul Costa]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think the staff will have him on the field until his knee is ready....which I think week 1 he will be 100% by the opener.  It'll be a solid 8 months since the surgery with the top medical/PT staffs.  I've known several people who have had ACL surgery and they're usually 100% without any setbacks between 6-8 months.

Of the several people you know that have recovered 100% In a 6-8 month period are #1 CB’s in the NFL? I’m guessing Tre’s day job is a little more stressful on the repaired ACL than most people. To recover in 6-8 months to go back to a desk job is very different than going back to coving Tyrik Hill in the opener. 

[Bob in Mich]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think the staff will have him on the field until his knee is ready....which I think week 1 he will be 100% by the opener.  It'll be a solid 8 months since the surgery with the top medical/PT staffs.  I've known several people who have had ACL surgery and they're usually 100% without any setbacks between 6-8 months.

Oh, he will have some issues, imo.  

 

Anyway, I guess it is a ‘we will see’ but I hope you are absolutely right and he gets past it without serious problems.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Paul Costa said:

Of the several people you know that have recovered 100% In a 6-8 month period are #1 CB’s in the NFL? I’m guessing Tre’s day job is a little more stressful on the repaired ACL than most people. To recover in 6-8 months to go back to a desk job is very different than going back to coving Tyrik Hill in the opener. 

 

Of course they aren't NFL CB's.

Do you think Tre is going to a general Physical Therapy shop in a strip mall or he's going to the top notch Doctors provided by the Bills?

 

Also, no...they aren't just doing desk jobs.  These are Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Muay Thai fighters who competed within 8 months.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He had surgery on December 15th which a little less than a week short of 5 months.

 

Errrr.....January February March April, almost exactly 4 months out.